BTRFTG Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 31 minutes ago, Rob k said: It’s the most unfair division probably in world football - how are clubs like City to compete without taking a risk? History shows that most Championship clubs have occasionally won the gamble taken (though be careful for that you wish.) City are one of a very select band who have shown themselves to be reckless and clueless punters. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTRFTG Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said: I don't like this type of comment. Why is Palmer stealing a living? Somebody decided to sign him on a contract at a rate of pay. He had been on loan so we knew what we were buying. If the club choose to now not use the player thats the clubs fault. I'm sure Palmer would rather be playing than not. I would describe it as mismanagement by the club. We bought and expensive asset and then haven't used it. Spot-on, save for the final sentence. City paid far over the odds for KP who in reality was never worth half that City coughed up for him. City made it an expensive purchase, wholly different from him being an expensive asset. He doesn't play because in the type of side City may now put out he's little more than a liability. Bloke cedes possession for fun. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrick's Marvels Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, TomF said: From the man that put Crystal Palace into admin. Touché. Which might give him some insight/expertise about the matter? Don't get me wrong, I have no time for him or this radio station but @chinapig nailed it - it's special pleading on our part. Our excuses are just that - excuses. My question to Jon Lansdown would be - "so which player(s) were you going to sell for squillions of quid, then, if only it hadn't been for that pesky covid?" We've dug a hole for ourselves, we need to get ourselves out of it - most likely that will mean selling someone we'd rather not. I don't blame him for trying to avoid this by making the arguments he is. I just don't think he'll be successful. Perhaps once every club has published their accounts, more clubs will be singing the same tune and our argument will carry more weight and we might even win the day. But how long might this take? Too long I suspect - we can't wait indefinitely, we have to get our books in order asap, i.e. sell someone in the summer. Perhaps the strategy is to let all the ooc players leave in the summer - plus offload Wells/Palmer or both - and squeak inside FFP this season. Then spend next season making our case to the EFL that we should be allowed greater covid losses, an argument hopefully supported by several other clubs who find themselves in the same boat as us. If that argument still fails, sell a valuable young un next summer. We're an easy target at the moment, having published accounts well ahead of most others who are still to show their hand. I still think our argument is special pleading though. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The turtle Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, iamalagerdrinker said: Anyone got a link and time to when the conversation was please? It would have been just after 1130 UK time or around than. If you could find a link to it that's around then hour you want to look 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 29 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said: How does a club, like city, compete with the parachute clubs? You have to pay good wages to a select few players and hope they perform. The tactic of trying to find youth, develop them and sell on for profit is entirely sensible. The issue at city is the recruitment has not been great. We have duds sat on the bench / squad earning loads. Recruitment is the issue Precisely…. me, and others, have been banging on about this for years. DoF, Chief Scout, Network of Scouts, Academy, Analysts in that order, all aligned in working to a Club/Playing Development Strategy led by CEO/Owner. It seemed we had all powerful CEO, then Analysts, Academy … unless we got very lucky it was not going to end well. The four pillars seemed to get lost in short-term decision-making leading to incoming transfer randomness with a focus solely on profiteering (excepting Wells, who was a last throw of the dice). Let’s hope Nige has the energy left to turn this around and Steve and family - who I have no doubt have the very best of intentions - also stick around. I really do think the ‘Bristol Sport’ model is a good one for a Club like ours, we just need to ensure the right people are in place on the football operations side. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 How much wiser people appear to be when they no longer have responsibility for a job they are attempting to advise others about. Whether it business eg Simon Jordan or politics eg Jeremy Hunt, their egos tend to ignore what happened when they were in charge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, The turtle said: Buy youth/abroad low, sell high and factoring that into financial fair play. A. You may never sell a player for profit, so shouldn't assume you will. B. Don't blame covid, had long enough to adjust. Haven’t listened, but I agree. A. Flawed model in the first place, how many of signings returned a profit. I reckon of the 69 “Ashton” signings, make that 52 (17 were loans) just 6 were sold for more than we paid for them. You could argue that the 52 is really 37 because 15 were free transfers, but some of those free transfers were ones who we might’ve sold for a fee. That’s a crap hit rate when that’s your strategy. The 6 were: Magnússon (small profit) Eliasson (small profit) Brownhill Webster Szmodics (small profit) Eisa (small profit) B. Yep, and the biggest failure was the recontracting debacle last summer. Letting players like Diedhiou go for free. Ashton had 2 years to extend I’d sell him. Others too. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southport Red Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Gazred said: It's not true though is it? We tried to invest in younger players that could do a job now but also improve and add £ value. That hasn't always worked out of course but it's not just in Europe (no mention of HNM there?), what about Webster and Brownhill. Made good profit on both and served us well, recruited from the EFL. We continue to develop good home grown players too, some of which have gone for large amounts and others who are also worth a tidy profit are currently holding down places in our team, did that get a mention? As for covid....how the hell would anyone be planning for that? Any business model is going to expect a turnover as part of its model. It's not like we've taken a huge gamble on getting to the Prem, we've made large investments for sure but not in an all or nothing attempt. I feel we are a victim of circumstance more than anything else. Agreed. Good margin - Webster Value added - Brownhill, Kelly Good Value extracted - Bryan, Reid, Dhedhou, Flint, Pack, Smith Value lost - Nagy, Wells(probably), Palmer, Patterson Current Value added - HNM, Scott, Benarous Not a stellar record perhaps, but I’d wager, no worse than many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Not listened yet but from the summaries I've read on here. He certainly has a point, it is a highly risky strategy to mask operating losses through player sales, assuming the well will never run dry. I think the bits by Gould about add back of lost hypothetical player sale profits are a non starter. 100%. Agree with a lot of what Jordan says tbh but I would also like to ask him has he a view on Stoke claiming £30m in Impairment to Covid thereby eliminating from P&S? That's worse! Wonder if he has a view on the Sala tragedy possibly giving Cardiff a P&S lifeline? Carvalho to Olympiakos, if that's a big fee then questions to be asked... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southport Red Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, Midred said: How much wiser people appear to be when they no longer have responsibility for a job they are attempting to advise others about. Whether it business eg Simon Jordan or politics eg Jeremy Hunt, their egos tend to ignore what happened when they were in charge. “The older I get, the better I was” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, RedRoss said: The thing is this wasn't the main issue that has caused most of our problems. Covid accelerated the issue but paying over the top wages and fees and banking on success in the transfer market is the main issue. Even if Covid hadn't come along do you still think we'd get a return on the 4 million outlay on Kasey Palmer, the 8 million we paid for Kalas, the 4.5 million on Nakhi Wells? Those fees along with their hefty wages which are way above our pay grade. Big round of applause. It was coming, Covid brought it forward. I’ve been moaning about this for best part of 4 years. I’m not even an accountant! Much as I dislike comparing us to our friends in the north….it’s what happened to them, when they stopped having sellable assets like Stewart, Browning, Taylor, Ellington, Roberts, Hayles, Lambert, etc. they suddenly couldn’t afford to live in Lg1 (Champ for very short stint)…and Colin Daniel became “king”! We are a tad fortunate Semenyo and Scott give us a backstop, Massengo too, to a lesser extent, because we bought him in for a decent fee in the first place. Ashton / Holden (???) we’re happy to loan him to Brum….he would have been off last summer for less than we paid for him had that happened! Let that sink in. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said: So Simon Jordan thinks a strategy of buying low and selling high is a poor one. Thanks for that Simon, I’ll go for the “buy high, sell low” strategy that led Palace to administration. And Simon also thinks we can’t blame Covid when the financials he’s referring to are 20/21 when Covid was in full flow, and we’re now out and adjusting - ie not blaming Covid currently. I’m not sure Simon understands accounts are published retrospectively. There’s a reason I don’t listen to Talksport. I’ve probably just identified it. Quite. Ron Noades ran a successful Crystal Palace on a shoestring for years by just that strategy of buying players 24 or under who could develop and selling them for a profit. Chris Armstrong was one. Then Simon "is he wearing Harmony hairspray?" Jordan took over, thought he knew better and nearly bankrupted the club. The bloke's an idiot and it's laughable that he's criticising other clubs' financial models. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivorguy Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 It is blindingly obvious that the SL business model would in all likelihood , bar some huge fluke, fail. Always sell your best players before they give us an opportunity of making real progress, then rinse and repeat. So unlikely, that some believe it was even set up to fail and to concentrate resources on rugby, leisure and business use of Ashton Gate - the plan all along. The time to invest was when we did have a fluke season and reached play off final and had momentum. Can’t see that happening again soon. Typical of City over last century, with only one exception (and that went well!), lack of true ambition will always hold us back. Who seriously thinks the next league we play in after Championship won’t be the good old Third Division - our spiritual home 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzos Only Goal Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Simon Jordon, him and Paul Scally, not sure who I dislike the most, the guy who could not let that ghost goal go and forever talks us down or the one who screwed us with Pulis, then took us to court over it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, Southport Red said: “The older I get, the better I was” A lot of ex sportsmen also. Geoffrey Boycott, Brian Moore, to name but two! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 56 minutes ago, CHIPLEY RED said: I don't like this type of comment. Why is Palmer stealing a living? Somebody decided to sign him on a contract at a rate of pay. He had been on loan so we knew what we were buying. If the club choose to now not use the player thats the clubs fault. I'm sure Palmer would rather be playing than not. I would describe it as mismanagement by the club. We bought and expensive asset and then haven't used it. Must blame the player. You must have had the memo ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 46 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said: Perhaps the strategy is to let all the ooc players leave in the summer - plus offload Wells/Palmer or both - and squeak inside FFP this season. We are well inside ffp for the cycle ending this season. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Isn't "sell your best players if it brings in such a big profit that you might be able to replace them" the same 'business model' all Championship clubs without PP are forced to pursue? In fact, aren't more or less every club barring PL ones and Championship PP recipients in this position? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 46 minutes ago, The turtle said: It would have been just after 1130 UK time or around than. If you could find a link to it that's around then hour you want to look It’s on about 11:20, and carried on beyond 11:30 https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1645092000/1645095600/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 SJ agrees with revenue lost due ticket sakes, commercial revenues, etc. He disagrees with RG / JL’s view that they should be allowed more allowances based on historic transfer profit. And I agree with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 The strategy is fine The execution of the strategy was poor. That’s it 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 I've never had any time for this bloke & especially after his club went into administration. I am sure there was extenuating circumstances much like a business model where one source of projected revenue is calculated on the amount of footfall through the stadium on a matchday basis pre covid and the very same business models are now having to be adjusted through covid yet we are still being asked to be accountable? Every club is different so I'm not sure on what basis he can pass judgement unless he knows our major shareholder very well which I somewhat doubt. As an example, I think I read somewhere that 18,000 pints of beer are bought over a matchday weekend when the Bears & City are at home which is a considerable amount of money lost. How do you factor that in. He's on a talk show and is paid to be controversial. I reckon he's tangoed quite a few people with his comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curr Avon Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Davefevs said: It’s on about 11:20, and carried on beyond 11:30 https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1645092000/1645095600/ or -8.50 in the 11:00 to 11:30 section. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said: Isn't "sell your best players if it brings in such a big profit that you might be able to replace them" the same 'business model' all Championship clubs without PP are forced to pursue? In fact, aren't more or less every club barring PL ones and Championship PP recipients in this position? Many on otib appear to be unaware that the players themselves might have a choice in the matter. Once their heads have been turned then the choice could well be to sell them for what they can get rather then have players who are either losing interest or decide to wind down their contracts until they can go for free. I believe that after the two Manchester games in 17/18 season one or two might have thought other clubs would be screaming for their signatures in the January window. This obviously didn't happen but they seemed to lose motivation for the second half of the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, Midred said: A lot of ex sportsmen also. Geoffrey Boycott, Brian Moore, to name but two! Brian Moore was absolutely fantastic. My first ever ‘favourite player’ in rugby! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 Just now, lenred said: Brian Moore was absolutely fantastic. My first ever ‘favourite player’ in rugby! He seems to know more about the rules now than when he was playing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Midred said: He seems to know more about the rules now than when he was playing! Haha!! There’s no denying that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeez Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 This clown is in no place to lecture anyone how to run a football club. I read his book & hasn’t a clue how to run a financially sound business, he got lucky when he blagged he way through the mobile phone gold rush & then spunked the money he made It’s embarrassing how much money he squandered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 If I was in charge, my basic strategy would be: 1) Only buy players from other clubs who are under 25 2) Sell ANY player who doesn’t sign a new contract (so that they don’t leave for free) 3) Ensure youth players are given a chance before buying 4) Never break the salary cap for anyone! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waconda Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said: If I was in charge, my basic strategy would be: 1) Only buy players from other clubs who are under 25 2) Sell ANY player who doesn’t sign a new contract (so that they don’t leave for free) 3) Ensure youth players are given a chance before buying 4) Never break the salary cap for anyone! And most importantly ignore ridiculous transfer targets demanded by fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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