Williams and James

[Port Said Red]

Good to see them both playing today, lets hope they can remain fit. 

I think we saw today that no matter how good they are, playing an 18 and 20 year old as your main midfield players, week in week out and often 3 times a week, eventually takes its toll. It will be good to rotate them and for them to having that bit of extra experience around on the pitch will help them a lot.

[italian dave]

14 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Good to see them both playing today, lets hope they can remain fit. 

I think we saw today that no matter how good they are, playing an 18 and 20 year old as your main midfield players, week in week out and often 3 times a week, eventually takes its toll. It will be good to rotate them and for them to having that bit of extra experience around on the pitch will help them a lot.

Good to see them playing in the sense that they are both match fit…yes.

If they both play like they did in the second half today, less so! 

The Forest one on one with Bentley latter part of the second half summed it up for me. Williams and James are meant to be sitting in front of the back 3 to stop opponents running unopposed through the middle of our half of the pitch which is exactly what happened with neither anywhere to be seen. 

[headhunter]

45 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Good to see them both playing today, lets hope they can remain fit. 

I think we saw today that no matter how good they are, playing an 18 and 20 year old as your main midfield players, week in week out and often 3 times a week, eventually takes its toll. It will be good to rotate them and for them to having that bit of extra experience around on the pitch will help them a lot.

Same applies to 33 year old Chris Martin; if he's our only option then change the system perhaps and make better use of what you have, i.e. £20k/week Nahki Wells or 4-5-1 with Weimann or Semenyo sole striker

[Sir Geoff]

19 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Same applies to 33 year old Chris Martin; if he's our only option then change the system perhaps and make better use of what you have, i.e. £20k/week Nahki Wells or 4-5-1 with Weimann or Semenyo sole striker

Yes great idea, let's change the one part of the team that is functioning consistently well this season.

[headhunter]

2 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Yes great idea, let's change the one part of the team that is functioning consistently well this season.

At home I'll give you that but away - 2 points from 33 ffs

[Waconda]

11 hours ago, italian dave said:

Good to see them playing in the sense that they are both match fit…yes.

If they both play like they did in the second half today, less so! 

The Forest one on one with Bentley latter part of the second half summed it up for me. Williams and James are meant to be sitting in front of the back 3 to stop opponents running unopposed through the middle of our half of the pitch which is exactly what happened with neither anywhere to be seen. 

Struggle to see both playing in the same side to be honest. 

Beware thinking they are the "silver bullet" to our woes.

I would try and rotate them game to game for the rest of the season.

[JoeAman08]

Don’t rate James at all. He isn’t one of our best 3 central midfielders currently. I get what he brings to a team in terms of experience and organising. We need those desperately but we also need quality which I feel he has lacked most of the time. I feel like he has a Marlon Pack like style of play in a Korey Smith type body frame without any of Korey Smith’s good qualities. Maybe it is was expectation from the signing. Had good reviews from Coventry and a good cv. Just feels more like a Tommy Rowe. Good pro but a level too high. 
 

Williams has played very little over the last two seasons. So his mistakes come with a pinch of salt for me. Probably won’t be too critical of him until next season. Think we’ll need to come to terms with him missing games from too many bookings. 

[1960maaan]

For me, I'd like to see us get all four CMF involved.
James can add a little calm & quality. Ignoring yesterday, Williams has looked classy in his cameos . Scott, well , you know. Massengo I think needs James to calm him down. Reduce his running and use his mobility in bursts and more wisely.
I think they could suit a Diamond, HNM or Scott at the top, and James/Williams at the back. They could easily slip into a MF4 to cover the wide areas.
This would mean dropping Martin, my preferred pairing of Semenyo & Weimann up front. 
I actually thought we were moving the ball well to start yesterday, passing and moving. Their CB's looked like we could get at them, Martin sees the runs, he does make the runs. He just doesn't have the pace. Semenyo in a front role could bully defenders and only needs a yard to get a shot away, and is 2 footed. Weimann running of him, we have seen how much of a threat. 
There is a trade off, defending corners. But we play for flicks less than we did, so going forward I don't think CM adds that much. 

[Waconda]

46 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

I can't comment on James aside from he was anonymous yesterday which would be expected seeing as everyone was naff and first half back. 

Williams though is an odd one, when he's good he's very good, but games like yesterday or when he came on at Preston he slows our game down, and doesn't bring alot to the table. As front sweeper he may as well not have existed yesterday and also meant that thr busy bees couldn't do their thing. 

When he's good though he's aces but I've seen more of him knackering our shape and play this season than adding to it. 

If we're going DM, Vyner, Massengo, or maybe even Scott or a n other over the summer if we can would be useful

Play him in the centre of a back 3. 

Kalas    Williams   Klose

           

 

 

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Interesting concept. Would you scrap the diamond then, who would drop to pick up from Scott/Massengo if we're not going long? 

yep, with the players available, 3-5-2.

                                                                      Bentley

                                                        Kalas     Williams     Klose

                                            DaSilva                                             Pring

                                                                 HNM     Scott

                                                                     Weimann

                                                               Semenyo     Martin

Full backs as Wing backs, DaSilva looks decent as a RWB.

More natural to fall into a back 5 when without the ball.

 

 

[headhunter]

21 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

So I do agree it would be worth going without Martin. Yes we lose Martin's ability in defending corners. I wouldn't mind peoples suggestion of Kalas at right back with Cundy alongside Klose. I said in the summer I see a situation where Kalas might end up being our right back with what we had in that position in Simpson and Vyner!

I've been pilloried on FBC Podcast for BOTH these suggestions! It may not have been you but @billywedlock latest utterances about the junk we put out on our broadcasts might not agree with you.

Playing without Martin calls for a Plan B which we don't seem to have. 4-5-1 would make us solid and we could have Wells, Semenyo or Weimann in the lone striker role

[1960maaan]

42 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I wouldn't mind peoples suggestion of Kalas at right back with Cundy alongside Klose.

I  know part of the reason Kalas came, was to play CB. But it does feel like this could be an answer , at least short term. 

Kalas - Cundy - Klose - Pring

Add Williams as a shield and maybe we will start to be a little more solid , next throw of the dice ?

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, 1960maaan said:

I  know part of the reason Kalas came, was to play CB. But it does feel like this could be an answer , at least short term. 

Kalas - Cundy - Klose - Pring

Add Williams as a shield and maybe we will start to be a little more solid , next throw of the dice ?

Neither Williams nor James are a “shield” like Pack was.  Williams is more box-to-box, James more a deep playmaker / keep the ball moving.  Williams likes a tackle, but he’s not “positionally disciplined” like Pack, James is an organiser though.

I think James and Williams would be best alongside each other, rather than in a diamond per se.  Whether that’s in a central two or a flatter three (with either Scott or Massengo) depends on the rest of the team.

But it will be nice to see them start a game together.

[1960maaan]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Neither Williams nor James are a “shield” like Pack was.  Williams is more box-to-box, James more a deep playmaker / keep the ball moving.  Williams likes a tackle, but he’s not “positionally disciplined” like Pack, James is an organiser though.

I think James and Williams would be best alongside each other, rather than in a diamond per se.  Whether that’s in a central two or a flatter three (with either Scott or Massengo) depends on the rest of the team.

But it will be nice to see them start a game together.

Meant more as " this is what we've got". I think Williams and James, have much more to their game than being a shield.  I also think , at least for the short term, we do need someone to do that job. I don't think the 3CB's is working, I also thought the back 4 with Williams just in front  looked promising. If Kalas did move to FB, there would be a need for better cover IMO.  

The skill is finding a formation to be solid, and yet get the best out of what we have available. Not sure there is a system to suit us ATM. I'm thinking we have to try and find a set up that stops us conceding goals. That looks likely to be a 4 - ? - ? 
Like I said, I thought Williams looked good getting the ball off of the CB's, maybe rotating with James ? So 4 - 2 - ?
With what we have Weimann , Semenyo , Martin and Scott play. So that could be 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 , with Martin as a focal point ?

The final option would be Vyner as DMF in front of the back 4. But I've read he should never play for us again, so , maybe not.

It's just thinking out loud really.

What I was disappointed about yesterday .
It was mentioned they were good down the right.
We swap DaSilva for Pring, no problem with that, he's bigger , stronger and IOM a better defender.
We then play a diamond, which means no cover for Pring and so a raft of 1v1s and a problem as they rotate, which was also flagged up.
While I want the "Opposition to worry about us", it seems naive for a team to highlight a threat and to almost ignore it. 

 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I guess there is still potential problems in lack of width to our team if say it was something like Weimann and Scott/Massengo on the wings.

But at least we should look more solid. I like entertainment but something needs to be done about our goals conceded.

I would be quite happy with 442(ish):

Kalas Cundy Klose Pring

Massengo Williams James Scott

(Massengo playing like Brownhill, like he did v Cardiff (a))

I get “entertained” by good discipline, shape, teamwork off the ball etc, as well as the other stuff!

[1960maaan]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I would be quite happy with 442(ish):

Kalas Cundy Klose Pring

Massengo Williams James Scott

(Massengo playing like Brownhill, like he did v Cardiff (a))

I get “entertained” by good discipline, shape, teamwork off the ball etc, as well as the other stuff!

Yep, I'd give Semenyo & Weimann licence to roam and pull defenders around. Rather than have a traditional CF, I think that could work.

Makes it easier picking the XI when you only have possibly 12 though 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

3 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Just feels more like a Tommy Rowe. Good pro but a level too high. 

Bit harsh on James given he’s never played below Championship level and has played Premier League, vs Rowe who’s played less than 40% of his career at Championship level? 

[JoeAman08]

6 hours ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Bit harsh on James given he’s never played below Championship level and has played Premier League, vs Rowe who’s played less than 40% of his career at Championship level? 

It isn’t a slight on his career. Just mean it is how it feels for me now. I can’t say I have followed his career much before here. I think if he had come from L1 I’d maybe feel a bit more neutral about his performances. I had higher expectations than what I have seen is all.