Realistically- who then?

[maxjak]

We must be one of the few football teams in the UK who are under performing so drastically, despite having had the massive advantage of a Multi Millionaire (Billionaire?) owner? ......I bet Steve wishes he had put his money into horse racing?       

[KegCity]

4 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I agree with every word Joe, we lack an identity and any noticeable style of play that I can fathom. 

It’s a shame, we had that run earlier in the season when Semenyo first started scoring where it looked like we’d finally found an identity. I’d much rather see HNM and Scott at centre mid again than Williams and James who were both extremely lethargic once again.

[Waconda]

2 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Ran out of likes but seconded

Thirded

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

That is my issue. 60 or so games and there is nothing to hang our hat on. Possession? No. Pressing? No. Soak up pressure & counter? No, we can’t defend. Good on set pieces? No. We have probably scored more goals then last season but that is with Weimann having his best season. Can we rely on him to score 20 again? History would suggest this is an outlier. 

 

There is a middle ground I think though. There was quite a lot of talk from NP that he’d make us fitter and harder to beat with a preseason. He got rid of ones he didn’t want and brought in or resigned 7. Alex Scott was too good not to play I think we can all agree on that. My point is we haven’t gotten any better as the season has gone on. You’d expect a bit more considering there are a lot of young players mixed in with very experienced older ones. 

 

Fair but probably the lesser sums of money there. Still would be a big help I think. At the least, it would make NP have to get the side performing much more consistently. 

You can say that but how much is that down to him having played in 4-5 different positions throughout the season? Mostly not in the position that is his best. I think he will have plenty of suitors. Not sure many will like the price though. Mostly for the points you have brought up. Either genius from NP making it harder for clubs to evaluate him or crazy because he can’t be at his best and clubs will undervalue him. With his contract being long I think using his versatility was fine this season. Going forward would like to see him centrally full time so he can grow to influence matches more consistently. 

 

No one had heard of Farke or Wagner when they were hired. Recruiting a manager at city should be the same as a player. A manager with a hunger to improve and make a bame for himself. LJ was kind of like that but with Ashton being here at the same time, I am not sure whether LJ could have been better than it turned out. 

Being harder to beat is a factor of fit players and availability. We are currently playing players that are partially fit while others that fill the treatment room. 
 

Today for the record we didn’t lose. But we were poor.
 

The fact is we need to create money to buy new players which is inevitable. We will also be looking at the OOC players around the country and build again. Without the gob loads of money wasted on LJ by the board City have to build largely from within and OOCs. 
 

Next season we will see what happens. But all this Pearson out Bullshit is tiresome and utter nonsense. 

[Spike]

Just now, johnheadbcfc said:

Christ that's depressing

It is, but would you take this job on if you weren't a fan of us with so many issues to sort out and no money to do anything about it?

 

1 minute ago, Ska Junkie said:

Do we have a 'way we play' currently? I'm not sure we do, maybe that's my issue tbh.

We do, we play a counter football with Martin as a focal release point. Our defending is very much zonal marking which is why we have so much confusion at the back when you have three centerbacks, a left and right wing back and the deeper midfielders all seeming out of sync with each other meaning no-one knows when to go to the ball and when to stick back.
3-5-2 is a damn hard formation to get right and you definitely cannot do it without natural wing backs. Dasilva is perfect for the formation on the left side, the issue is we're botching in a player to a key position in the formation every week and in many cases forcing DaSilva to play on his less natural side.  I think if we had all of our squad fit and healthy you'd be looking at O'Dowda on the left and DaSilva on the right which is madness when Dasilva is ten times the player on his natural left side. That alone kind of sums up this squad, we have a style of play but we don't have the players to fit it, but in the same breath we can't play a flat back 4 because we don't have a right back and we've played 3-5-2 for so long that the center backs are not accustomed to a natural flat back 4 style.

You can see every game what the idea of the 3-5-2 is, I just think with so many players being forced into roles that don't work for them we struggle to show any cohesive shape. Watching us I feel sorry for Scott, I think he'd thrive in a right midfield or central role in a more basic 4-4-2 with a player behind him but instead he's being forced to move about to allow other players to feel more comfortable. Just imagine Scott being able to run at players in the final third knowing that if he were to lose the ball we wouldn't be in a weak position, instead he knows if he's dispossessed the players behind him flounder for position and to cope whereas a natural right back behind him and 2 CB's who can hold their shape rather than 3 all trying to calculate where they should be would not only put less pressure on the defence but also allow Scott the freedom to take players on without concern of a quick counter. 

Looking at what we have now I think Perason should be looking to go a 4-4-1-1/ 4-3-3 next season by bringing in a right back, getting rid of Baker, Wells, Vyner and Palmer. I'd also sell Massengo, as much as his technique, energy and determination are there his footballing brain is lacking. He can do some amazing things on the ball, however his biggest weakness is his poor decision making both going forward and backwards. He can run with the ball, it's great, pushes us up the pitch, but then he fluffs a simple pass and turns that push up the pitch into a counter attacking option. He's also made so many bad decisions when passing that have resulted in goals against us, I love the lads passion and who he is as a person but I don't see him as a positive in this team, I think he needs a very high quality box to box, mentally strong midfielder alongside him to ensure he doesn't make mistakes and can teach him the assessment of a situation whilst in possession and we don't have that, hence I'd cash in on him before other teams feel he's not still developing. I feel he could go on to be a great player, but I don't think he'll do that under us, at least without costing us in the meantime. The money from the sale of Massengo could get us the quality we need in a right back and arguably a new central midfielder who can both attack and defend with confidence.

I'd personally like to see us lining up like so:



Realistically to make such a big change to the team and style of play I think we'd need two new midfielders that would suit the formation. Massengo wouldn't work in this set up as Scott would have to have someone to his left with a good footballing head to allow him and Williams to offer support when countered. Weimanns energy would allow him to come back in the middle and chase the ball, Scott would be able to attack more aggressively and cover our new right back in overlap situations. Without Wells you'd see Conway and Bell get more chances up front too. We'd also need a replacement for Vyner who is another natural right back as back up for the first choice right back signing. I'd dare to say targeting two right backs would actually be a lot easier than you'd think with the selling point to them that we have no natural right back but are looking to sign two meaning there would be competition for the position but it wouldn't be a case of being a likely third choice at any point.

As much as I know we've become accustomed to 3-5-2 I just don't think we can defend effectively with it, it requires far too much discipline from all 3 centre backs and very high quality wing backs who can retain possession when pressured, whilst we have that with DaSilva it is very hard to find players of his ability who can also play in the current formation so a right back of equal quality would be very hard to find rather than a right back to play in a traditional back 4.

[JoeAman08]

1 minute ago, KegCity said:

It’s a shame, we had that run earlier in the season when Semenyo first started scoring where it looked like we’d finally found an identity. I’d much rather see HNM and Scott at centre mid again than Williams and James who were both extremely lethargic once again.

Same. I can’t get on board with James. Just don’t see it at all. Williams today was worse but first start in awhile. Think he probably isn’t as good as we think. Maybe grasping onto the good stuff because he hasn’t played much and easy to look decent in our midfield this season. 

[swanker]

51 minutes ago, Waconda said:

Lets get Phil Brown out of Barrow.

He took a team up into the Premiership years ago after all.

And he scored against City at Ashton Gate. 

[KegCity]

Just now, JoeAman08 said:

Same. I can’t get on board with James. Just don’t see it at all. Williams today was worse but first start in awhile. Think he probably isn’t as good as we think. Maybe grasping onto the good stuff because he hasn’t played much and easy to look decent in our midfield this season. 

He isn’t. Really surprised that he’s not considered a defensive midfielder by Pearson or a lot of fans, breaks up play ok and releases it but has no attacking mindset whatsoever. Seems to receive the ball, take a touch to actually realise he has the ball, then stop, look up, decide he doesn’t fancy a forward pass and then knock it sideways. Won’t ever carry the ball forward either which allows teams to get entrenched in whatever formation they’re playing, He’s not perfect but at least Massengo brought some energy and a desire to get the ball forward quickly when he came on.

[Waconda]

13 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Same. I can’t get on board with James. Just don’t see it at all. Williams today was worse but first start in awhile. Think he probably isn’t as good as we think. Maybe grasping onto the good stuff because he hasn’t played much and easy to look decent in our midfield this season. 

Got shouted down by the usual characters for saying it before but a midfield two of James and Williams is not viable at this level.

Just not dynamic enough.

Spread sheet may try and suggest something different !

Edited April 9, 2022 by Waconda

[JoeAman08]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Being harder to beat is a factor of fit players and availability. We are currently playing players that are partially fit while others that fill the treatment room. 
 

Today for the record we didn’t lose. But we were poor.
 

The fact is we need to create money to buy new players which is inevitable. We will also be looking at the OOC players around the country and build again. Without the gob loads of money wasted on LJ by the board City have to build largely from within and OOCs. 
 

Next season we will see what happens. But all this Pearson out Bullshit is tiresome and utter nonsense. 

But the cynic in me says NP brought Rennie into the club to make that side better. I am not on the NP in side. However I am not going to keep spouting it. Instead, if he is staying, I’d like to see him properly backed.
 

The only way that can happen is significant sales. So selling 3 of Weimann, Semenyo, Massengo and Scott. Also, moving on a couple of Bentley, Wells, Palmer, Kalas and Dasilva. Dasilva, Kalas and Bentley in there as their high wages could be allocated better. Think maybe a market for a few of those with a year remaining. Maybe have to pay a small portion of the wages for the season. 
 

My point is, if that happens I am happy to back NP for another season. With the caveat that we need to start a bit better than this season(home form I am looking at you) and hopefully get a bit steadier as the season progresses. If not, I don’t really see the value in NP trying to make probably a similar team into better than it is now. I’d rather take a chance with someone with some fresher ideas. 
 

I think it has to be a summer of change though. Keeping this squad and adding a few frees, I can’t see anything other than a relegation fight. 

[old_eastender]

1 hour ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

If not Nige. Who then, realistically. 
 

 

Why not keep Nige, who freely admits he is not a coach, just get rid of Fleming and Co. and bring in some coaches that can actually improve our players - Wade Elliott and Wilbs would do nicely for me! 

[Ska Junkie]

Essentially..

 

No.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Ska Junkie

[Pezo]

His comments on radio Bristol about it being "an odd club" and "a passive club" rang true with me. Not just the players the club - sounded like an upwards swipe more than anything else but a poke at the players at the same time.

[ChippenhamRed]

Unless someone can name a candidate who is realistic, affordable, and is much more likely to do better next season than Pearson - despite all the same limitations placed upon them - that it justifies the enormous cost of yet another managerial change….….….

…..then I really don’t see the point of even considering it.

Sooner or later maybe we need to consider that the problems with this club - and more specifically it’s ability to challenge at the top end of the second tier - might not be solved by constantly changing the manager.

[Top Robin]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

The bloke comes here dumps 12 OOC players. Is given a three year contract to not spend money but bring our academy kids thru and he takes it on!

Today was poor and we were disjointed but that is where we are.  

...and he brought in 5 new players of his choice

[YGBjammy]

Very little room for us to climb the table under ANY manager with this squad and this budget (or lack thereof). Happy with Nige for now, has improved the setup of the club behind the scenes and increased the value of a few players.

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

But the cynic in me says NP brought Rennie into the club to make that side better. I am not on the NP in side. However I am not going to keep spouting it. Instead, if he is staying, I’d like to see him properly backed.
 

The only way that can happen is significant sales. So selling 3 of Weimann, Semenyo, Massengo and Scott. Also, moving on a couple of Bentley, Wells, Palmer, Kalas and Dasilva. Dasilva, Kalas and Bentley in there as their high wages could be allocated better. Think maybe a market for a few of those with a year remaining. Maybe have to pay a small portion of the wages for the season. 
 

My point is, if that happens I am happy to back NP for another season. With the caveat that we need to start a bit better than this season(home form I am looking at you) and hopefully get a bit steadier as the season progresses. If not, I don’t really see the value in NP trying to make probably a similar team into better than it is now. I’d rather take a chance with someone with some fresher ideas. 
 

I think it has to be a summer of change though. Keeping this squad and adding a few frees, I can’t see anything other than a relegation fight. 

Exactly! NP will be backed within the current obvious restrictions. Selling players is a must to create fresh capital but only a percentage of that will be able to be used as cash for buys. All that is pretty clear. 
 

So who goes. HNM I personally think is obvious. I’m pretty confident that Pearson would not stand in his way. 

The others you mention have value. And bids are likely! It’s up to the Board what they accept  as good value. 

The ones that are a problem are the lesser spotted Odowda and Palmer and anyone on a pre Covid contract. This includes Wells, who has made it clear he would rather play than stay 

My understanding of Odowda is the club has a year option on him! I would be aghast if they take it up. If Wells would rather play, he may jump at a move on less money. Palmer has dug in and I suspect his home life has something to do with that  

Baker is probably done for good and Kalas may attract a fee  

Next season is all change again.
 

Anyone whining about firing Pearson not only does not grasp our finances or football finances in general, but is not paying attention to anything but on match day  

Many Are grateful we are not in a dog fight and have a bloke with the experience in this sort of circumstance running team affairs. Bloody hell we could have Sean ODriscoll

 

 

 

 

 

[Unan]

1 hour ago, Waconda said:

Lets get Phil Brown out of Barrow.

He took a team up into the Premiership years ago after all.

Wouldn’t be a daft idea to go for Holloway imo

[Top Robin]

36 minutes ago, Spike said:

It is, but would you take this job on if you weren't a fan of us with so many issues to sort out and no money to do anything about it?

 

We do, we play a counter football with Martin as a focal release point. Our defending is very much zonal marking which is why we have so much confusion at the back when you have three centerbacks, a left and right wing back and the deeper midfielders all seeming out of sync with each other meaning no-one knows when to go to the ball and when to stick back.
3-5-2 is a damn hard formation to get right and you definitely cannot do it without natural wing backs. Dasilva is perfect for the formation on the left side, the issue is we're botching in a player to a key position in the formation every week and in many cases forcing DaSilva to play on his less natural side.  I think if we had all of our squad fit and healthy you'd be looking at O'Dowda on the left and DaSilva on the right which is madness when Dasilva is ten times the player on his natural left side. That alone kind of sums up this squad, we have a style of play but we don't have the players to fit it, but in the same breath we can't play a flat back 4 because we don't have a right back and we've played 3-5-2 for so long that the center backs are not accustomed to a natural flat back 4 style.

You can see every game what the idea of the 3-5-2 is, I just think with so many players being forced into roles that don't work for them we struggle to show any cohesive shape. Watching us I feel sorry for Scott, I think he'd thrive in a right midfield or central role in a more basic 4-4-2 with a player behind him but instead he's being forced to move about to allow other players to feel more comfortable. Just imagine Scott being able to run at players in the final third knowing that if he were to lose the ball we wouldn't be in a weak position, instead he knows if he's dispossessed the players behind him flounder for position and to cope whereas a natural right back behind him and 2 CB's who can hold their shape rather than 3 all trying to calculate where they should be would not only put less pressure on the defence but also allow Scott the freedom to take players on without concern of a quick counter. 

Looking at what we have now I think Perason should be looking to go a 4-4-1-1/ 4-3-3 next season by bringing in a right back, getting rid of Baker, Wells, Vyner and Palmer. I'd also sell Massengo, as much as his technique, energy and determination are there his footballing brain is lacking. He can do some amazing things on the ball, however his biggest weakness is his poor decision making both going forward and backwards. He can run with the ball, it's great, pushes us up the pitch, but then he fluffs a simple pass and turns that push up the pitch into a counter attacking option. He's also made so many bad decisions when passing that have resulted in goals against us, I love the lads passion and who he is as a person but I don't see him as a positive in this team, I think he needs a very high quality box to box, mentally strong midfielder alongside him to ensure he doesn't make mistakes and can teach him the assessment of a situation whilst in possession and we don't have that, hence I'd cash in on him before other teams feel he's not still developing. I feel he could go on to be a great player, but I don't think he'll do that under us, at least without costing us in the meantime. The money from the sale of Massengo could get us the quality we need in a right back and arguably a new central midfielder who can both attack and defend with confidence.

I'd personally like to see us lining up like so:



Realistically to make such a big change to the team and style of play I think we'd need two new midfielders that would suit the formation. Massengo wouldn't work in this set up as Scott would have to have someone to his left with a good footballing head to allow him and Williams to offer support when countered. Weimanns energy would allow him to come back in the middle and chase the ball, Scott would be able to attack more aggressively and cover our new right back in overlap situations. Without Wells you'd see Conway and Bell get more chances up front too. We'd also need a replacement for Vyner who is another natural right back as back up for the first choice right back signing. I'd dare to say targeting two right backs would actually be a lot easier than you'd think with the selling point to them that we have no natural right back but are looking to sign two meaning there would be competition for the position but it wouldn't be a case of being a likely third choice at any point.

As much as I know we've become accustomed to 3-5-2 I just don't think we can defend effectively with it, it requires far too much discipline from all 3 centre backs and very high quality wing backs who can retain possession when pressured, whilst we have that with DaSilva it is very hard to find players of his ability who can also play in the current formation so a right back of equal quality would be very hard to find rather than a right back to play in a traditional back 4.

Martin and Dasilva???? FFS

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Top Robin said:

...and he brought in 5 new players of his choice

Five. Exactly.
 

To replace the what 12!? (What on earth were The Lansdowns Ashton and LJ doing)At limited cost! There were fees for two League One defenders and three frees right? 

I reckon that says it all. Four of the five have had medium to long term injuries, so unless injury is Pearson’s fault then that’s tough luck. BUT it has given Scott Berous Conway Pring among others chances, that will stand us in good stead moving forward. Unfortunately we just to accept cold hard facts surrounding our club!

[joe jordans teeth]

1 hour ago, Waconda said:

We are an absolute disorganised shambles when the other team have the ball. I can't believe this has gone on for months in a professional football team.

Have you seen Man United lately,and that’s a team with “top players “,what we have is a mixture of youth and average older players,not sure what you are expecting tbh 

[Tin Soldier]

1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said:

More interested in new owners hopefully. Our football club is stale as ****

You are so right. The club is dead.
We need new life bred into this club at the very top. I respect what the Lansdownes have done but they have run there course with Bristol City. Bristol Sport concept is killing this club. Losing interest fast.

[joe jordans teeth]

4 minutes ago, Tin Soldier said:

You are so right. The club is dead.
We need new life bred into this club at the very top. I respect what the Lansdownes have done but they have run there course with Bristol City. Bristol Sport concept is killing this club. Losing interest fast.

Who is this person,would you settle for a Newcastle type owner and forget about their crimes if it got us success 

[Banjo Red]

7 minutes ago, Tin Soldier said:

You are so right. The club is dead.
We need new life bred into this club at the very top. I respect what the Lansdownes have done but they have run there course with Bristol City. Bristol Sport concept is killing this club. Losing interest fast.

It seems that way very quiet aren't they.

[Curr Avon]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

There is talk that Warburton might be out soon at QPR, I would take him, good Manager.

But would Warburton get any bread?

[David Brent]

Nothing like a new manager suggestion to separate the wheat from the chaff. 

[RedorDead BCFC]

Florest got Hughton and thought they would win the league, which did not work. Then got some up and coming manager after a awful start, are now third. 
We should have tried to get Cooper when LJ went. 

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Florest got Hughton and thought they would win the league, which did not work. Then got some up and coming manager after a awful start, are now third. 
We should have tried to get Cooper when LJ went. 

Cooper left Swansea because they were cutting their costs, which made him an unlikely candidate for us.

Not that he was likely to bend the knee to Ashton in the way Johnson and Holden did anyway.

[Ron W]

2 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

Yep. He's got QPR to 10th with no money.

Any other ideas Giok? Not having a pop btw, I'm not sure who's about that we could realistically get.

It's not quite no money. They spent more than they have in recent years in the summer.

[Ivorguy]

1 hour ago, Malago said:

We’re financially up shitcreek without a paddle.  Pearson has got two years left on his contract.  We can’t afford to sack him, even if Lansdown wanted to, which he probably doesn’t.

That may not be the scenario. NP, as I have thought before,  may simply walk.  He doesn’t need the hassle or, for that matter, the money.  Then who on earth would see us as a good job opportunity?