Taylor Moore

[Merrick's Marvels]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Moore, to his credit, went on a “mentality” course a couple of close seasons ago (might’ve been during covid layoff), but not sure it has paid off.  At least he has tried to better himself.

Interesting, didn't know that. Fair play to him.

The fact he also had the nuts to accept (ask for?) reduced terms on a new contract because he wanted to stick around and prove himself, you have to wonder....

.... is he too clever to be a footballer? Certainly a Centre Half - they're a special breed 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[sh1t_ref_again]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Moore, to his credit, went on a “mentality” course a couple of close seasons ago (might’ve been during covid layoff), but not sure it has paid off.  At least he has tried to better himself.

Was not aware of that, so makes me wonder if perhaps I am not far off the truth.

I play a lot of golf and its amazing how it affects you game when you start getting negative thoughts when you are stood over a short putt or have to hit the ball over a lake. That's when I am playing a game for fun, but add the pressure of thousands of fans and its how you make a living and hopefully fulfil your dreams, then that pressure may get very intense and be difficult to handle

[Edgy Red]

47 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Not long ago, Pearson used an interesting word when talking about the Academy and specifically defenders.

He said, whilst the Academy was producing some good players, he'd like to see a few "thugs" coming through.

Thugs!

Now I'm pretty sure he didn't mean that literally but rather as an indication of the sort of mentality, personality, character he'd like to see in the team, particularly our defenders.

Moore is the polar opposite of that. I've always said, he's the sort of nice, polite lad you hope your daughter brings home. He's son-in-law material. That's not what Pearson's looking for mentality wise - even before you consider a player's technical ability, what have they got between their ears?

This may also be why Cundy is getting a chance to prove his worth - Pearson likes his character, so he's giving the lad a chance to play some games and prove his worth. 

This a very valid point and is another reason why i think Alex Scott will go on to achieve good things in the game. He's got a nasty streak and has collected quite a few bookings already. Taylor Moore just doesn't seem to have that nasty side.

[Merrick's Marvels]

22 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

He’s used that phrase in describing both Kalas & Baker in the past too (he called Kalas “a sensitive thug”) & I do know he means it as a complement.

Yes, the Kalas comments were in the same interview I'm thinking of, now you mention it.

It was also a classic example of what makes me despair about our local journalism.

As soon as Pearson used the word "thug" I thought - blimey! It just leapt out at you. 

It begged a follow up - "That's an interesting word to use, Nige. Can you expand on what you mean by thug?"

But the dull journo didn't react at all, of course, just pressed on with the next pre-prepared, obvious question.

It's difficult to make those interviews interesting, they mostly follow a predictable pattern, so missing - being oblivious to - the chance to ask something other than "Is Joe Williams fit this week" etc is plain dumb. Talk about missing an open goal. 

[1960maaan]

3 hours ago, ashton_fan said:

We all have different opinions but the numbers are facts, it doesn't include the big fee paid for Kelly during the MA/LJ period, there were some poor signings in that group but it's a fact that the players sold for quite a bit more than they cost, as for the ones still on our books we don't know what we'll get for them (COVID will have reduced their values) but they will have played a high number of games for us so that must be worth something, I'm just trying to take a balanced view

Yep, I have no problem with differing opinions, it's what keeps the forum alive.

I didn't count the Academy signings ( Kelly, Reid & Bryan) as Johnson & Ashton had little or no involvement.  As for the profit , I look at it the same way as Johnsons year on year Improvement . And I do try to be level headed & fair. The profit and improvement were small, and so I consider it lucky rather than good. While an improvement each year over 3 years was good, it was small and so I wasn't that impressed. Same with the profits. Eisa as an example, massively lucky to break even, Magnússon profit but didn't feel like making the most of things. If you get 50-100 games from a player then it changes your view. I do think that over their time, and seeing as it was the plan, recruitment over all was  poor. 

 

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, glynriley said:

The worst thing is, the bloke(s) who allowed it to happen have done it before, and are still here. 

If you're talking about Lansdown, then that's harsh. If he doesn't back the manager he's wrong. He brought in Ashton, and trusted him as a football man and had his pants pulled down. Through all the right reasons he was wrong. 
Lansdown has been too good with letting us spend money, but that's where a DoF or CEO should be able to step in. The problem was.....

.................. Ashton

[Ivorguy]

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

If you're talking about Lansdown, then that's harsh. If he doesn't back the manager he's wrong. He brought in Ashton, and trusted him as a football man and had his pants pulled down. Through all the right reasons he was wrong. 
Lansdown has been too good with letting us spend money, but that's where a DoF or CEO should be able to step in. The problem was.....

.................. Ashton

The buck stops at the top

[1960maaan]

44 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

The buck stops at the top

Ultimately, yes. No argument from me. Mistakes were made, mostly being too loyal. I think SL has always had the right intensions , just made poor decisions .

[KegCity]

9 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I know, that was part of my point. We bought a winger, an out and out winger , yet Johnson didn't play with wingers. Even then he provided  good number of assists and goals. If we had been playing with a system that suited him, we may well have got full value from him.  
All if's and but's, but that time we signed , or loaned about 6 wingers and never set up to play that way.

He was a ridiculously good player for us, 15 assists or something stupid in his last season at the club. It’s crazy we didn’t try and replace him.

[KegCity]

7 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Scott is a great example. Clearly not a thug but the kid has an edge about him that says “I’m better than these senior pro’s alongside me” which is why, notwithstanding a dip in form that he recognises himself, the kid is going places. Benarous has it too.

Does he? That’s something I feel he’s missing but more than happy to be convinced otherwise.

[Engvall’s Splinter]

7 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I actually quite liked TM, think he had an excellent attitude and showed he could be a good footballer. It seemed when he started making some errors following being played out of position by LJ, then becoming some fans scape goat who were very quick to get on his back, I don't think mentally he could cope with it and confidence became shot.

Some players have thick skins, some players don't care, but in TM case I think he did care but the pressure of making errors in a game affected his performance to an extent where he was worrying about making the mistake before even did with a negative mindset, which then lead to an error

 

I actually don’t think the fans have got on his back, if anything he’s been given an extended stay of execution. The fact that he was a “England international” bought him time, then he was slowly utilised and then PR wise he came across with good stock. We’ve really wanted him to exceed almost as if he’s one of our own. Unfortunately, he is nowhere near good enough as proved in failing to play in a league boy to dissimilar  from Brislington.  

Edited April 18, 2022 by Engvall’s Splinter

[glynriley]

4 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

If you're talking about Lansdown, then that's harsh. If he doesn't back the manager he's wrong. He brought in Ashton, and trusted him as a football man and had his pants pulled down. Through all the right reasons he was wrong. 
Lansdown has been too good with letting us spend money, but that's where a DoF or CEO should be able to step in. The problem was.....

.................. Ashton

Undoubtedly Swiss was the problem, but as pointed out above, the Buck stops at the top.

This isn’t the first time we have had a period of austerity under SL. The fact he allows his employees to run up massive debts (is it 120% wages to turnover…?) is ******* criminal..

[Wrongagain]

9 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

I actually quite liked TM, think he had an excellent attitude and showed he could be a good footballer. It seemed when he started making some errors following being played out of position by LJ, then becoming some fans scape goat who were very quick to get on his back, I don't think mentally he could cope with it and confidence became shot.

Some players have thick skins, some players don't care, but in TM case I think he did care but the pressure of making errors in a game affected his performance to an extent where he was worrying about making the mistake before even did with a negative mindset, which then lead to an error

 

This is exactly what’s wrong with Vyner, bricking it last time out, scared to make a mistake

[Son of Fred]

On 17/04/2022 at 23:31, billywedlock said:

lacked aggression

This.

[nebristolred]

13 hours ago, GrahamC said:

How much LJ felt he had no say in all this I have no idea, but it just resembles a 7 year old in a sweet shop.

It does beg the question of whether we were too harsh on LJ on that front. You could always argue that a manager should have total control and his inability to question or go against it could be a criticism, but we've no idea of what the internal setup is/was like.

The Watkins deal probably isn't as weird as it looks, didn't he play under LJ before? Szmodics also made sense, we needed someone else in that position to complement Paterson, but once we had him in then that makes the Palmer signing completely baffling, and his wages even more so.

I'd be intrigued to see what the squad looked like at the time of the Man Utd/Wolves games, and whether this was before or during our transfer binge. If you throw a ton of mismatched players at any manager, it is going to breed disharmony and additional pressure. Perhaps LJ could have been better for us without a certain other person upstairs...

Edited April 19, 2022 by nebristolred

[nebristolred]

58 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I strongly recommend people look at the line up for the Man Utd game  . 

Biggest shock for me was big Arnie Garita on the bench! I'd forgotten about him!

Edited April 19, 2022 by nebristolred

[Antman]

16 hours ago, GrahamC said:

He’s used that phrase in describing both Kalas & Baker in the past too (he called Kalas “a sensitive thug”) & I do know he means it as a complement.

Remember him saying how amused Baker was when an opponent had to go off injured after his knee clashed with Baker’s head & last week was saying how Kalas gives everything he has in every challenge, which is why he is out now.

Remember LJ directly criticising Moore for not being prepared to get hurt in stopping Pitman score the winner against us for Ipswich, as you rightly say he doesn’t seem that type, whereas Cundy, for whom the jury is out ability wise, definitely is. 

whilst i agree with the basic sentiment (of needing some tough old center backs) Lets not forget how this forum reacted to Bakers now imfamous moments of madness, when he lunged in and got sent off / injured / gave away penalties.

thats the flip side of having a CD who puts himself about.

We need a Shuan Taylor/ Louis Carey/Biff type - who isn't scared of getting in there, but isn't a pyscho for the sake of it.

 

(Glen Humphreys anyone?)

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 hours ago, billywedlock said:

I strongly recommend people look at the line up for the Man Utd game  . 

From memory?

                Steele

Wright Flint Baker Magnússon

Brownhill Pack Smith Bryan

            Paterson

              Reid

Right to left in terms of CB and CM I can't remember exactly but that was it wasn't it? Had that settled line up for a month or 2, thanks in part due to a load of injuries!

[Mr Popodopolous]

The thing about that slightly wielded together lineup is that though they weren't necessarily the best 11 at the club at that time, or the best in their respective position- and yes Fielding > Steele in general but that aside though they weren't as just described, it just worked very well tactically for a while. Enabled us to dominate central areas too.

After Flint, Magnússon, Bryan and Reid sold, a possible replication in 2018/19 might have looked like. Plus Fielding and Smith had long term injuries too iirc...

              Maenpaa

Wright Kalas Webster Kelly

Brownhill Pack ? Eliasson

              Paterson

             Weimann

With Smith out injured, who partners Pack centrally? Walsh, Morrell or Hegeler injuries permitting- and the latter had a lot of those in his time here!

Edited April 19, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Merrick's Marvels]

"Hearts aim to keep 3 English-based loan players next season".

Runs the headline in today's Edinburgh Evening News.

Brilliant! 

Read a little further....

"Robbie Nelson admitted he would like to retain striker Ellis Simms, defender Alex Cochineal and forward Ben Woodburn".

Which says it all. 

[Port Said Red]

1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

"Hearts aim to keep 3 English-based loan players next season".

Runs the headline in today's Edinburgh Evening News.

Brilliant! 

Read a little further....

"Robbie Nelson admitted he would like to retain striker Ellis Simms, defender Alex Cochineal and forward Ben Woodburn".

Which says it all. 

Ben Woodburn, was going to be the new Robbie Fowler wasn't he? He has had 4 loan spells have been less than productive although he is only 22 even now.

[Slippin cider]

Taylor Moore is a league 2 player at best 

[GrahamC]

Quote in the Scottish media this morning strongly suggests Hearts aren’t interested in keeping him.

[Major Isewater]

30 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Quote in the Scottish media this morning strongly suggests Hearts aren’t interested in keeping him.

Heart breaking .

[alexukhc]

7 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Heart breaking .

Back to Bristol velocity he comes

[GrahamC]

15 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Ben Woodburn, was going to be the new Robbie Fowler wasn't he? He has had 4 loan spells have been less than productive although he is only 22 even now.

Had loads of injuries, seems to have done for him.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I have seen enough of Taylor Moore to believe there is a very good player in there, and an intelligent and determined young man.  I have no idea why things have gone so badly wrong for him - a couple of years ago I really saw him as a future captain at City - but I hope that with the right guidance and support he can begin to fulfil his undoubted potential somewhere.

[tin]

Taylor Moore’s a good guy and I’d like to see him succeed with us, but unfortunately his development has stalled and if he can’t make it in the SPL he’s got no chance of making it in the Championship.

I will never understand Ashton extending his deal on a rumoured £10k a week for no logical reason other than to try and earn a transfer fee. The same principle applies to Vyner. Neither are up to it at this level IMO. 

Good luck to them both as they shouldn’t have long-term futures here. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I have seen enough of Taylor Moore to believe there is a very good player in there, and an intelligent and determined young man.  I have no idea why things have gone so badly wrong for him - a couple of years ago I really saw him as a future captain at City - but I hope that with the right guidance and support he can begin to fulfil his undoubted potential somewhere.

Yeah, I don’t think he’s a bad player either, capable of lots of good stuff….passes the ball well, but I think like several players, concentration / consistency is an issue, maybe a bit of naivety that an opponent might “want it” more and be prepared to “cheat” to get the ball.

I don’t go down the line of “he’s Lg1 at best” type stuff.  He’s played almost 50 times at this level, and at times has looked perfectly capable.  I think his best spell was alongside Ashley Williams, where I thought he really was coming on nicely.

It just might be time to move on.  Sounds like he feels the same way.  If he does, I wish him all the best.

[PHILINFRANCE]

I still wonder how good he might have been had he played constantly on the right, rather than on the left, where he was frequently asked to play to provide cover.

[1960maaan]

16 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I still wonder how good he might have been had he played constantly on the right, rather than on the left, where he was frequently asked to play to provide cover.

My thoughts exactly.
Him and Vyner seemed to suffer being moved around a lot more than some others have, and that's not a criticism some players will want to get used to a position. I never understood, with an experienced International in the team, they gave the new role to the virtual rookie, he never looked comfortable at LCB. Vyner even more so, RCB, RB, RWB, DMF. 

[Sleepy1968]

15 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Heart breaking .

Heartless.

[GrahamC]

21 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

I still wonder how good he might have been had he played constantly on the right, rather than on the left, where he was frequently asked to play to provide cover.

Been played exclusively on the right by Hearts & they don’t want him, so think there’s your answer.

Plus let’s not try to pretend games v St. Mirren, Ross County, Motherwell & Dundee, etc. are going to be remotely Championship standard.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

11 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Been played exclusively on the right by Hearts & they don’t want him, so think there’s your answer.

Plus let’s not try to pretend games v St. Mirren, Ross County, Motherwell & Dundee, etc. are going to be remotely Championship standard.

And in the games he’s played against teams that probably are at Championship level (given Rangers’ performances in Europe and Celtic’s performances against Rangers), his record is P2, L2, GF 0, GA 7. Clearly he may have played brilliantly in both games, but if Hearts don’t want to keep him it’s probably further support for the argument that he’ll struggle at Championship level. Given Hearts are clearly 3rd best in Scotland, presumably the players they want to keep/acquire will be more Championship level to help challenge Celtic/Rangers, as they’re a long way ahead of the rest. 

Similar to Vyner there’s lots to like and, oddly, almost looks as if he’d do better at a higher level. Strong technically, maybe lacks the nastiness which only increases in importance lower down the leagues, where refs are poorer and no VAR to catch out untalented, but cynical players. However the big issue for both Zak and Taylor is, as loads have mentioned, concentration - it’s a pretty low standard of football where switching off doesn’t get caught out. If we were knocking up a spreadsheet for various qualities, the problem for both of them is that in the Championship you need all categories (say, technical skills, athleticism, mental strength, some other things…) to be a minimum 6 or 7, but whilst they may have some categories that are 8 or 9, those that are 3 or 4 will mean they won’t make it, whilst players who are less gifted in lots of ways, will.

Could see both of them doing better abroad, where technical skill probably has more emphasis, maybe Taylor will go full circle. 

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Been played exclusively on the right by Hearts & they don’t want him, so think there’s your answer.

Plus let’s not try to pretend games v St. Mirren, Ross County, Motherwell & Dundee, etc. are going to be remotely Championship standard.

I’ve watched whenever Hearts have been on , and , well , he’s been simply awful 

Rabbit in the headlights a lot

He appears to have really bulked up and broadened in his top half and looks as if his body is out of sorts / sync 

Instead of concentrating on his ball ability it looks like he’s been advised or chosen to work on his body to increase physicality

Not sure what that’s all about and ironically he still tends to lose out physically , physicality is not just bulk but bravery and technique too 

From the outside I’d suggest he’s had bad advice / guidance in his player development

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

He appears to have really bulked up and broadened in his top half and looks as if his body is out of sorts / sync 

Instead of concentrating on his ball ability it looks like he’s been advised or chosen to work on his body to increase physicality

I made that same point earlier.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Been played exclusively on the right by Hearts & they don’t want him, so think there’s your answer.

Plus let’s not try to pretend games v St. Mirren, Ross County, Motherwell & Dundee, etc. are going to be remotely Championship standard.

 

1 hour ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

And in the games he’s played against teams that probably are at Championship level (given Rangers’ performances in Europe and Celtic’s performances against Rangers), his record is P2, L2, GF 0, GA 7. Clearly he may have played brilliantly in both games, but if Hearts don’t want to keep him it’s probably further support for the argument that he’ll struggle at Championship level. Given Hearts are clearly 3rd best in Scotland, presumably the players they want to keep/acquire will be more Championship level to help challenge Celtic/Rangers, as they’re a long way ahead of the rest. 

 

14 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

I’ve watched whenever Hearts have been on , and , well , he’s been simply awful 

You are probably all correct, but my point was very much 'what if?'.

I was just wondering whether he might have improved had he been able to grow in to the role in his favoured position, i.e. on the right side of the central defence, rather than helping out in a position in which I think he looked ill suited.

Nevertheless, whatever his merits as a footballer, he remains ideal son-in-law material.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

1 minute ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

 

 

You are probably all correct, but my point was very much 'what if?'.

I was just wondering whether he might have improved had he been able to grow in to the role in his favoured position, i.e. on the right side of the central defence, rather than helping out in a position in which I think he looked ill suited.

Nevertheless, whatever his merits as a footballer, he remains ideal son-in-law material.

Think that’s a very fair challenge for both him and Zak (who I suspect is best suited to defensive mid) at City, concentration an issue for both, but must be easier to concentrate when you’re playing in a position that comes intuitively more easily to you. Argument against that for Taylor is @GrahamC  point that Hearts are playing him in his preferred position and still not pulling up trees. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

Played 90 (and got booked) in a 3-2 away win over Dundee United today.

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 23/04/2022 at 13:11, Sheltons Army said:

From the outside I’d suggest he’s had bad advice / guidance in his player development

I do wonder about this bit too. Possibly from a different angle.

Loan to Blackpool was it Jan 2020? Thought he did okay but prone to an error in the 1st half of the season, was loaning him out e.g. strictly necessary?

Then the loan itself, could a loan to a more possession based League One side have been better suited- or even to an e.g. 2nd tier French or German side have been more fitting if loaned at all, given he had part of his education football wise here and part in Europe.

Alternatively, he stays and gets to play his favoured RCB position...

        Moore Kalas Benkovic

Sort of suited to a higher line given age and profile, and Moore on one side, Benkovic on the other can carry it a bit. All history now but certain aspects I wonder about.