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The Semenyo Thread - Now a Bournemouth Player. Deal Confirmed

Mr Popodopolous
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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bobbie said:

I’m not looking for him to be anything, I’m just saying from all the games I’ve seen him play, 10m seems a very fair price and a big gamble from Bournemouths perspective. I think he can cause premier league teams problems but he hasn’t shown the consistency of performance to warrant the kind of money that some seem to be expecting. 

is he the answer to Bournemouths problems? I very much doubt it 

This is the thing, we shouldn’t be trying to justify this on “fair price”, we should be weighing up the various dynamics, especially as the selling club.

Bristol City:

  • passing FFP (down boy down Mr P ?)
  • we’ve said we don’t need to sell
  • He’s a striker / premium price for that position
  • He’s young, has upside
  • he’s got the attributes of power and pace that are generally needed in the PL
  • its January / premium paid in this window
  • etc

Bournemouth:

  • all of the pluses of being in the PL, wages etc
  • all the minuses that they might be relegated
  • does Antoine get a 40-50% wage reduction if they go down
  • Is he gonna play over Moore, Solanke, Ouattara, etc
  • Etc

and as it stands, he’s our player, he’s contracted to Summer 2024.  The fee will be what it will be, but we need to be looking after ourselves, it’s not about being fair…it’s about supply and demand.

2 hours ago, TBW said:

Almost never get that high a percentage up front these days. It's too much liquid cash to just transfer over. Video games just make us think it is.

If we go down it'll be because of more than simply Semenyo leaving... and if we do go down his value will drop significantly. 

Depends on the liquidity of the buying club.  City are tending to pay most if not all of their fees up front, and using that as bargaining power.  Not every club has an owner who will keep a club making such big losses so liquid.  It also means that we can accommodate other clubs buying our player “on credit” (staged payments), and we can charge them extra for the privilege.  As a crude example, so you want Antoine Semenyo, £15m in one hit, or £18m (£6m now, £6m in a year’s time, another £6m the year after).

I agree that most clubs aren’t as liquid as us though.

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Bobbie

Bobbie

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is the thing, we shouldn’t be trying to justify this on “fair price”, we should be weighing up the various dynamics, especially as the selling club.

Bristol City:

  • passing FFP (down boy down Mr P ?)
  • we’ve said we don’t need to sell
  • He’s a striker / premium price for that position
  • He’s young, has upside
  • he’s got the attributes of power and pace that are generally needed in the PL
  • its January / premium paid in this window
  • etc

Bournemouth:

  • all of the pluses of being in the PL, wages etc
  • all the minuses that they might be relegated
  • does Antoine get a 40-50% wage reduction if they go down
  • Is he gonna play over Moore, Solanke, Ouattara, etc
  • Etc

and as it stands, he’s our player, he’s contracted to Summer 2024.  The fee will be what it will be, but we need to be looking after ourselves, it’s not about being fair…it’s about supply and demand.

I agree all those dynamics will have an effect on the final decision but they also don’t allow you to change reality. The reality is we have an inconsistent young striker with potential, who he 18-months left on his contract. If we don’t sell now they is a very good chance he continues being inconsistent until the end of the season. We then have the same situation but with a 12-month contract, meaning his value reduces. My fear is we are then forced into selling below his market value and certainly below what’s currently being offered. 
 

I think 10m would be a good deal for all parties, although admittedly I don’t know the details of how they want to pay as we would need a substantial amount up front to make it worthwhile. 

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is the thing, we shouldn’t be trying to justify this on “fair price”, we should be weighing up the various dynamics, especially as the selling club.

Bristol City:

  • passing FFP (down boy down Mr P ?)
  • we’ve said we don’t need to sell
  • He’s a striker / premium price for that position
  • He’s young, has upside
  • he’s got the attributes of power and pace that are generally needed in the PL
  • its January / premium paid in this window
  • etc

Bournemouth:

  • all of the pluses of being in the PL, wages etc
  • all the minuses that they might be relegated
  • does Antoine get a 40-50% wage reduction if they go down
  • Is he gonna play over Moore, Solanke, Ouattara, etc
  • Etc

and as it stands, he’s our player, he’s contracted to Summer 2024.  The fee will be what it will be, but we need to be looking after ourselves, it’s not about being fair…it’s about supply and demand.

Depends on the liquidity of the buying club.  City are tending to pay most if not all of their fees up front, and using that as bargaining power.  Not every club has an owner who will keep a club making such big losses so liquid.  It also means that we can accommodate other clubs buying our player “on credit” (staged payments), and we can charge them extra for the privilege.  As a crude example, so you want Antoine Semenyo, £15m in one hit, or £18m (£6m now, £6m in a year’s time, another £6m the year after).

I agree that most clubs aren’t as liquid as us though.

Just on the Bournemouth being relegated scenario, I don't see that as much of a deterrent for Semenyo.

He would get 5 months as a Prem player guaranteed. If they go down he'll almost certainly have a salary reduction clause, but would still end up on loads more than whatever contract we've offered. He'd also then be playing for a team that is odds on for promotion. 

In terms of career progression it ticks every box even if they go down.

The only caveat to that is if there would be a possibility to earn a move to a more established Prem club in the summer. 

It seems pretty conclusive that he's agreed personal terms and we've seen one journo allude to Antoine pushing for the move, so I'd presume he and his agent agree with this.

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robinforlife2

robinforlife2

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, maxjak said:

Bournemouth have now offered 8 mill.......and then 10 mill for our prized asset.....apparently?   That is well below our asking price?  It is disruptive and unrealistic, and why the hell would Antoine want to go to a team who will probably be playing in our division next season?   He is far better off staying here, and showing what an outstanding talent he is over the next half a season.......thus provoking a far better deal for himself, and superior financial rewards, and also playing for a far better team than the South Coast fly by nights?  Please Stick around Antoine......and show the real Premiership sides what they will be missing out on?  Ha!!

I can think of 50,000 reasons why he might want the move .....

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Kibs

Kibs

Posted
Posted (edited)

Fair play to the club for sticking to their guns so long as we don’t have another Massengo situation on our hands in 6 months time. 

Unlikely I know because he’s more sought after but it’s still a possibility if he gets injured or nobody meets our asking price again in the summer. 
 

Im in the trust Gould and Pearson camp on this one. 

Edited by Kibs
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GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The summer if not now is definitely the best time for it provided Semenyo doesn't wish to extend. 

Maybe we can push it up to £15-20m IF he really gets going between now and May.

The one thing that is clear is he won’t extend his contract & I’d be absolutely amazed if we got anywhere near that figure.

He wants to go now if he can, the choice for us is trying to maximise what we get & bring in potentially a short term replacement (a lot depends on how quickly Weimann & Conway will be available) or make him stay, potentially have to accept a lower offer in the summer & have a player who really doesn’t want to be here in the squad.

Tough call but if someone (maybe Bournemouth) comes back with a higher bid early next week I think we will sell.

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robinforlife2

robinforlife2

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

3 weeks ago we had a poor team heading for relegation. One league win later and we can afford to lose a £15m rated forward in the midst of an minor injury crisis.

 

Riiiiiiight.

Not all fans felt/feel we had a poor team. Many felt we had an inconsistent team being hindered by a formation that doesn't work for us, and a manager who refused to play players in their best positions. Oddly enough he finally scrapped the 3-5-2 5-3-2 and playing square pegs in round holes, and we've found a bit of form and starting to be more consistent. 

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Simon bristol

Simon bristol

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This is the thing, we shouldn’t be trying to justify this on “fair price”, we should be weighing up the various dynamics, especially as the selling club.

Bristol City:

  • passing FFP (down boy down Mr P ?)
  • we’ve said we don’t need to sell
  • He’s a striker / premium price for that position
  • He’s young, has upside
  • he’s got the attributes of power and pace that are generally needed in the PL
  • its January / premium paid in this window
  • etc

Bournemouth:

  • all of the pluses of being in the PL, wages etc
  • all the minuses that they might be relegated
  • does Antoine get a 40-50% wage reduction if they go down
  • Is he gonna play over Moore, Solanke, Ouattara, etc
  • Etc

and as it stands, he’s our player, he’s contracted to Summer 2024.  The fee will be what it will be, but we need to be looking after ourselves, it’s not about being fair…it’s about supply and demand.

Depends on the liquidity of the buying club.  City are tending to pay most if not all of their fees up front, and using that as bargaining power.  Not every club has an owner who will keep a club making such big losses so liquid.  It also means that we can accommodate other clubs buying our player “on credit” (staged payments), and we can charge them extra for the privilege.  As a crude example, so you want Antoine Semenyo, £15m in one hit, or £18m (£6m now, £6m in a year’s time, another £6m the year after).

I agree that most clubs aren’t as liquid as us though.

Would you try to get keiffer moore in as part of the deal dave?

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Sir Geoff

Sir Geoff

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

I'll rephrase, a high number of fans calling for a managers head and discontent in the stands. 

If by high number you mean about a hundred in S82 who all left with 15 minutes remaining of the WBA game and about a dozen near the back of the South stand then you're correct. 

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Phileas Fogg

Phileas Fogg

Posted
Posted (edited)

I think he'll probably be off this window unfortunately.

As KITR said, all factors mentioned indicate this is moving along well.

It's a shame because I've really enjoyed his development in the last 18 months. With the right coaching and in the right team, I think he could develop really nicely. His ceiling is a bit higher than most 23 year olds because his development as a teenager wasn't through a conventional academy so he's still pretty raw.

Not sure if Bournemouth is the best move for him given they look likely to come back down. Provided he plays regularly it could be a good next step up as even if they get relegated you'd expect them to challenge at the top of this league next season.

The key will be replacing him. He's pretty unique stylistically to what we have, so it's not as easy as just saying Sam Bell because they're totally different styles of player. We'd need someone mobile, strong and athletic to replace him. Hopefully we've already identified a few. Pearson has had a good eye for a forward throughout his career so I'm fairly positive about potential replacements. 

Edited by Phileas Fogg
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NcnsBcfc

NcnsBcfc

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Two things that quite strongly suggest this will happen soon:

1) Antoine has already agreed terms so obviously wants to go

2) The stories leaking the bids are from the Bournemouth side, meaning this is being done deliberately to put pressure on City to sell, and of course to unsettle Antoine.

 

 

Can't help get the feeling that when a player wants to move(refusing to sign a new contract), starts pushing for that move (agreed terms); that the general momentum gathers pace. Regardless of the transfer fee involved

Ultimately, we don't know the Semenyo that is going to play tomorrow. Will his head be elsewhere against Blackburn, or will he be able to put all of this behind him for what is a crucial game?

I'm reminded of Joe Bryan's last game against Forest, you could tell it was his last game for the club; and he wasn't at the races. Fingers crossed Antoine is able to finish with a flurry.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bobbie said:

I agree all those dynamics will have an effect on the final decision but they also don’t allow you to change reality. The reality is we have an inconsistent young striker with potential, who he 18-months left on his contract. If we don’t sell now they is a very good chance he continues being inconsistent until the end of the season. We then have the same situation but with a 12-month contract, meaning his value reduces. My fear is we are then forced into selling below his market value and certainly below what’s currently being offered. 
 

I think 10m would be a good deal for all parties, although admittedly I don’t know the details of how they want to pay as we would need a substantial amount up front to make it worthwhile. 

We will probably to continue to come at this from different angles.

I don’t disagree that this window “might” be the best window to sell him in, but if that is so, then you try to maximise it, because we hold the strong hand at this point (subject to change quickly in the world of football).

You seem to really undersell Antoine’s ability, consistent or not.  The fact that several PL teams are interested (some have bid) shows they believe he had PL ability, whether that’s consistent or inconsistent and NOW not just potential.  He has the physical attributes that clubs want.  They see it as something that gives him a better chance of being a success.  At his current inconsistency he has still got 7g / 2a in 1476 minutes of football.  At his average he’s scoring at a level that starts to stand out.

Again, your focus seems to be on fair price / market value for all parties, **** the other party, we want this to be the best deal for Bristol City.  There isn’t really a market to compare against is there, every transfer is different.  Was Adam Nagy to Pisa for free and a £750k impairment in the books a fair price / market value for an international with 50+ caps?

Bournemouth allegedly went from 6+2 to 8+2 in the blink of an eye….I just think we are right to play hardball on this one.

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Just on the Bournemouth being relegated scenario, I don't see that as much of a deterrent for Semenyo.

He would get 5 months as a Prem player guaranteed. If they go down he'll almost certainly have a salary reduction clause, but would still end up on loads more than whatever contract we've offered. He'd also then be playing for a team that is odds on for promotion. 

In terms of career progression it ticks every box even if they go down.

The only caveat to that is if there would be a possibility to earn a move to a more established Prem club in the summer. 

It seems pretty conclusive that he's agreed personal terms and we've seen one journo allude to Antoine pushing for the move, so I'd presume he and his agent agree with this.

And that’s a big caveat, especially if he can reignite interest from someone like Palace.

I’m not sure it is conclusive re personal terms.  But I’m not ITK, so just have a different gut feel to you.

49 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Would you try to get keiffer moore in as part of the deal dave?

No, mainly because he wouldn’t come here, but also because he’d break our wage structure I suspect, he’s 30, has a history of niggly injuries.  I’d rather look for a player we’ve been scouting for our specific needs with growth.  I guess on loan you might.  I dunno.

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cidered abroad

cidered abroad

Posted
Posted
Just now, Davefevs said:

We will probably to continue to come at this from different angles.

I don’t disagree that this window “might” be the best window to sell him in, but if that is so, then you try to maximise it, because we hold the strong hand at this point (subject to change quickly in the world of football).

You seem to really undersell Antoine’s ability, consistent or not.  The fact that several PL teams are interested (some have bid) shows they believe he had PL ability, whether that’s consistent or inconsistent and NOW not just potential.  He has the physical attributes that clubs want.  They see it as something that gives him a better chance of being a success.  At his current inconsistency he has still got 7g / 2a in 1476 minutes of football.  At his average he’s scoring at a level that starts to stand out.

Again, your focus seems to be on fair price / market value for all parties, **** the other party, we want this to be the best deal for Bristol City.  There isn’t really a market to compare against is there, every transfer is different.  Was Adam Nagy to Pisa for free and a £750k impairment in the books a fair price / market value for an international with 50+ caps?

Bournemouth allegedly went from 6+2 to 8+2 in the blink of an eye….I just think we are right to play hardball on this one.

And that’s a big caveat, especially if he can reignite interest from someone like Palace.

I’m not sure it is conclusive re personal terms.  But I’m not ITK, so just have a different gut feel to you.

No, mainly because he wouldn’t come here, but also because he’d break our wage structure I suspect, he’s 30, has a history of niggly injuries.  I’d rather look for a player we’ve been scouting for our specific needs with growth.  I guess on loan you might.  I dunno.

A six + feet lump who as stated gets niggly injuries, lots of yellow cards is not how Pearson wants to play up front.

He wants those with real pace over first ten yards that leaves even top international central defenders in the wake. Body strength is more important than being an aerial battler when the ball usually goes in the wrong direction.

Quick passing to split defenders is what we have now so why change.

These are my opinions. I haven't spoken with Nigel for about forty years when he was at Shrewsbury with Moysie.

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mozo

mozo

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And that’s a big caveat, especially if he can reignite interest from someone like Palace.

I’m not sure it is conclusive re personal terms.  But I’m not ITK, so just have a different gut feel to you.

The personal terms bit was in the Athletic piece and I rightly or wrongly trust their reporting.

I wonder if having had an injury already hamper his season, Antoine might be more inclined to seize the opportunity now. 

Either way, a failure to agree a deal now doesn't cause any major headaches. 

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