Simon bristol Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Numero Uno said: I realise you said today but we were 5th highest scorers in the league last season but given we are specialists in missing chances presumably you thought we should have scored 400 last season……. We came across A front 3 that clicked last season, they will probably score a lot next season if they all play every game… which is only a slight problem with semenyo being injured and martin being another year older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Red Skin said: What a professional, timing the birth for out of season. However if you want to give your child the best chance of succeeding as an athlete you need to aim to have the kid September - November 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, Lrrr said: However if you want to give your child the best chance of succeeding as an athlete you need to aim to have the kid September - November This is so true,i was born in November and i was the best at, well it's true anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, Lrrr said: However if you want to give your child the best chance of succeeding as an athlete you need to aim to have the kid September - November Some truth in this. Footballers born in August are statistically least likely to succeed - recent article in the media about it. We’re very rigid about year limits in this country compared to other European countries… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoh Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said: That's either going to give you an error or some maths genius doing a Masters is going use it to prove he has an infinite IQ (in which case the rest of us are all screwed). Maybe he's a massive WUM, but fairplay to "Graham" for playing a straight bat regardless . you need 'Graceful degradation'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 35 minutes ago, reddoh said: you need 'Graceful degradation'. Wasn't that what Fred Wedlock was on about when he penned 'Oldest Swinger in Town'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangle Foot Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 6 hours ago, Son of Fred said: The new O'Dowda?? Apparently someone’s gotta be, it’s this forums number one rule, don’t you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted July 12, 2022 Report Share Posted July 12, 2022 4 hours ago, harrys said: Semenyo will prove to be our most important player There was a move early in the 2nd half today when Atkinson intercepted well and made a good pass to set Nakhi away. After about 5 metres he realised he wasn't going to out pace the defender and turned back for support and we lost the momentum. My first thought was Semenyo would have been away, bearing down on goal or setting up one of the other strikers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Lrrr said: However if you want to give your child the best chance of succeeding as an athlete you need to aim to have the kid September - November Outliers by any chance? Or just the Matthews Effect Edited July 13, 2022 by Marcus Aurelius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Lrrr said: However if you want to give your child the best chance of succeeding as an athlete you need to aim to have the kid September - November This is awkward unless you meant you must conceive Sept to Nov? Lionel Andrés Messi - Born: 24 June 1987 Cristiano Ronaldo - Born: 5 February 1985 Kylian Mbappé - Born: 20 December 1998 John Atyeo - Born: 7 February 1932 Usain St. Leo Bolt - Born: 21 August 1986 Sir Mo Farah - Born: 23 March 1983 Roger Federer - Born: 8 August 1981 Novak Djokovic - Born: 22 May 1987 Michael Jordan - Born: 17 February 1963 Tyson Luke Fury - Born: 12 August 1988 Muhammad Ali - Born: 17 January 1942 Edited July 13, 2022 by Tinmans Love Child Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeez Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said: This is awkward unless you meant you must conceive Sept to Nov? Lionel Andrés Messi - Born: 24 June 1987 Cristiano Ronaldo - Born: 5 February 1985 Kylian Mbappé - Born: 20 December 1998 John Atyeo - Born: 7 February 1932 Usain St. Leo Bolt - Born: 21 August 1986 Sir Mo Farah - Born: 23 March 1983 Roger Federer - Born: 8 August 1981 Novak Djokovic - Born: 22 May 1987 Michael Jordan - Born: 17 February 1963 Tyson Luke Fury - Born: 12 August 1988 Muhammad Ali - Born: 17 January 1942 Theres an interesting book; Outliers by Malcom Gladwell where they explore “the Matthew effect” outcomes based on birth month for the Canadian Hockey team and how being born a certain points can create disadvantages due to cut off dates for age groups when they are kids. Edited July 13, 2022 by Jeez Dupe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Jeez said: Theres an interesting book; Outliers by Malcom Gladwell where they explore “the Matthew effect” outcomes based on birth month for the Canadian Hockey team and how being born a certain points can create disadvantages due to cut off dates for age groups when they are kids. Sounds interesting. I was intrigued to see how many of the top sportsmen the birth month applied to. I didn’t hunt around and just chose a sample of those ones which seemingly didn’t link in with the Matthew effect Edited July 13, 2022 by Tinmans Love Child Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeez Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Tinmans Love Child said: Sounds interesting. I was intrigued to see how many of the top sportsmen the birth month applied to. I didn’t hunt around and just chose those ones which didn’t link in with the Matthew effect It also goes into other factors as to why some people become so successful and goes without saying there are always outliers who are exceptions or others who accept their start point and work harder - it’s the point of it & why it interesting as there are known disadvantages but they can also be used in the right way as an opportunity. Seen it with August born kids who had to work twice as hard from early on but when they physically & mentally catch up they can overtake their counterparts. Determination is a key factor but depending on the sport or country; birth date can be a disadvantage to overcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, Jeez said: It also goes into other factors as to why some people become so successful and goes without saying there are always outliers who are exceptions or others who accept their start point and work harder - it’s the point of it & why it interesting as there are known disadvantages but they can also be used in the right way as an opportunity. Seen it with August born kids who had to work twice as hard from early on but when they physically & mentally catch up they can overtake their counterparts. Determination is a key factor but depending on the sport or country; birth date can be a disadvantage to overcome. I can defo understand kids young in the year struggling as could be a year behind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redysteadygo Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 43 minutes ago, Jeez said: It also goes into other factors as to why some people become so successful and goes without saying there are always outliers who are exceptions or others who accept their start point and work harder - it’s the point of it & why it interesting as there are known disadvantages but they can also be used in the right way as an opportunity. Seen it with August born kids who had to work twice as hard from early on but when they physically & mentally catch up they can overtake their counterparts. Determination is a key factor but depending on the sport or country; birth date can be a disadvantage to overcome. Yes, seen it with my daughter, although it was in an academic sense, who was even kept back in the same year class instead of going up a year due to class number sizing in her junior school (sorry I'm old school, probably year 3 now I think). We did complain as she was the only girl held back along with 3 boys. The headmaster later admitted he wouldn't do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 4 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said: This is awkward unless you meant you must conceive Sept to Nov? Lionel Andrés Messi - Born: 24 June 1987 Cristiano Ronaldo - Born: 5 February 1985 Kylian Mbappé - Born: 20 December 1998 John Atyeo - Born: 7 February 1932 Usain St. Leo Bolt - Born: 21 August 1986 Sir Mo Farah - Born: 23 March 1983 Roger Federer - Born: 8 August 1981 Novak Djokovic - Born: 22 May 1987 Michael Jordan - Born: 17 February 1963 Tyson Luke Fury - Born: 12 August 1988 Muhammad Ali - Born: 17 January 1942 Nah its sort of as mentioned a bit in the later comments, at age group sports for teams and academies such as ours you'll see lots of Sept - Nov born players as within their age group as defined by school year because they've had the most time to physically develop within their age groups so in academy games they'll be stronger, faster etc and therefore stand out more. You'll still get plenty of players come through who are of younger age within the age group, Conway I believe is August, Scott also I believe but he was released by 2 academies. Generally academies feel they can only carry a technically gifted player for so long, if they're not influencing games by u16/u18 they'll more than likely be released but also as said below could be a case they've not physically caught up yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Jeez said: Theres an interesting book; Outliers by Malcom Gladwell where they explore “the Matthew effect” outcomes based on birth month for the Canadian Hockey team and how being born a certain points can create disadvantages due to cut off dates for age groups when they are kids. I read about this a year or so back. My instinct was that although it plays out in age group stuff, surely it evens out in senior football. I was surprised that there is an impact / bias. There was a Welsh player (can’t recall his name), who recently got his first cap, who felt that he’d been penalised by when he was born. His parents took him abroad where the school year was different, etc, etc. Here it is - Jamie Lawrence https://thecorrespondent.com/406/the-curious-tale-of-the-football-international-nobody-ever-heard-of-because-he-was-born-in-the-wrong-month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 Rob Atkinson's birthday today, I suppose he could be classed as a late developer, so not sure how that helps the argument either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 13 hours ago, Lew-T said: I can already see Mark Sykes being the new whipping boy… Indeed, he's going to take time to settle, get up to speed with a new way of playing and new players, we won't see him at his best for 6 months, people need to be patient 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redland Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 9 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said: Wasn't that what Fred Wedlock was on about when he penned 'Oldest Swinger in Town'? In an time when the words ‘swinger” and “gay” did not have the same meaning as they do today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 On the birthday timing point. You want to remember as well that there are simply more children born in September and October. People tend to be more likely to conceive around the alcohol-fuelled winter nights of the festive season, and that leads to a birth spike in September and early October. So seeing more players in youth football with birthdays in these months isn't just because those kids are older and bigger...there's also just more of them. Personally, as an August child myself, I think it's broadly bollocks that August kids are disadvantaged. But that's based on my anecdotal sample of 1 and I'm not a pro-sportsman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 Are we really judging players already on friendly games? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Monkeh said: Indeed, he's going to take time to settle, get up to speed with a new way of playing and new players, we won't see him at his best for 6 months, people need to be patient I’ve been more than happy with his contributions in his open two friendlies. On early viewing I think he’s settled in well. 57 minutes ago, Super said: Are we really judging players already on friendly games? No, but we are starting to form opinions that feed into a longer term view. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Port Said Red said: Rob Atkinson's birthday today, I suppose he could be classed as a late developer, so not sure how that helps the argument either way. Well if you take Rob as an example at 21 he was playing for Eastleigh in non league having been released by Fulham, at the point of being fully physically developed he works his way back up the pyramid to us. naturally there will be skilled players born later who’ll make it or just players whose genetic make up makes them more similar to others physically earlier etc, but at the same time it is common in academies for a majority of their players in age groups to be born in the first quarter of the season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: I read about this a year or so back. My instinct was that although it plays out in age group stuff, surely it evens out in senior football. I was surprised that there is an impact / bias. There was a Welsh player (can’t recall his name), who recently got his first cap, who felt that he’d been penalised by when he was born. His parents took him abroad where the school year was different, etc, etc. Here it is - Jamie Lawrence https://thecorrespondent.com/406/the-curious-tale-of-the-football-international-nobody-ever-heard-of-because-he-was-born-in-the-wrong-month There is a study conducted by John Doyle on age relative age effect (RAE). Taking 1000 pro players as a sample there should be a 25% spread across birth dates v the four quarters of the year. The first half is always highest represented, the last quarter the lowest. Take the worlds 100 most valuable players and the same RAE theme is evident. Working backwards the RAE themes are present at pro U18, EUFA AND FIFA U tournaments. The theme of age related effect is there from grass roots level to the pro game, Edited July 13, 2022 by Cowshed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 Any update on how old Palmer-Houlden is? Maybe one for Nige's press conference before Hull? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Any update on how old Palmer-Houlden is? Maybe one for Nige's press conference before Hull? I liked what I saw of him yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Lew-T said: I liked what I saw of him yesterday. Yes. Is he 18 or 19 though. Also, was he born in September (and therefore destined for greatness) or is he a disadvantaged sweet summer child of August? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Any update on how old Palmer-Houlden is? Maybe one for Nige's press conference before Hull? Yes, he’s 18 currently, 19 next Birthday. I have his actual date of birth, courtesy of someone who would know. Just now, ExiledAjax said: Yes. Is he 18 or 19 though. Also, was he born in September (and therefore destined for greatness) or is he a disadvantaged sweet summer child of August? No, he wasn’t born in September. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted July 13, 2022 Report Share Posted July 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Yes, he’s 18 currently, 19 next Birthday. I have his actual date of birth, courtesy of someone who would know. No, he wasn’t born in September. Your ITK knowledge is truly invaluable sometimes. Saved me writing an email to Richard Gould so thanks for that. Maybe mods could pin this thread and we could keep it updated as he gets older. Would be useful I think. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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