extonsred Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 1 minute ago, AppyDAZE said: I'm not overlooking anything. I sit in the Dolman on the half-way line, I have a good view of it. So how did you see the Atkinson incident? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, extonsred said: So how did you see the Atkinson incident? Possible penalty, in no way nailed on. He went on a great run, but he went down easy. I'd have more of an issue with Freeman not seeing red. But overall, I wasn't pissed off with the ref tonight. Edited August 16, 2022 by AppyDAZE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuno Gomes Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 Has the penalty incident be replayed as I missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 Calm, measured, accurate and well-timed after a victory. The number of blatant penalties we’ve been denied is beyond a joke. Having ref’d one match, I have every sympathy with the men in black it’s a very difficult job, but these missed penalty calls are just outrageous. There was no excuse for missing the one tonight he had a clear, unobstructed view. Pearson should be rewarded for speaking the truth, not be fined. However, think this could accelerate VARs introduction to the Championship which I’m not sure is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said: Think the QPR game at home last year was his tipping point Agreed. We had some stinkers prior to that but that game was the first that I recall him really being annoyed at. The other factor is that he probably now feels we're in a position where he can say that refereeing decisions influence the results (not tonight but certainly the Hull game), whereas maybe in the early part of last season the decisions going against us would be seen as an excuse because we hadn't played well enough to deserve more than we got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dredd Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 I’m not sure if this is how it works but 4 refs retired from the Prem last season in Friend, Dean, Moss and Atkinson. Does the mean that the better (haha) officials from the Championship have made the step up and we’ve got new referees this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjo Red Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 I think he like us has had enough of poor officials and decisions that are baffling. The pens not given, the one that was, fouls against when similar not given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 Interviewer: so a lack of consistency? Nige: No, they are consistently shit! Power phrasing a little but I did like that comment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, Nuno Gomes said: Has the penalty incident be replayed as I missed it. Have to wait for the clubs highlights as Sky just showed our goals and three shitty attempts by Luton as their highlights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said: I don't disagree re the idiots. The people operating VAR are referees - the lunatics are in charge of the asylum. But at least its a second check on the clowns on the field using video and technology. Trouble is , it means more refs watching a monitor . The ones we got now are bloody useless so god knows what the standard would be like & where they’d get them from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 Just now, steviestevieneville said: Trouble is , it means more refs watching a monitor . The ones we got now are bloody useless so god knows what the standard would be like & where they’d get them from The ones on the field are not up to the level, nowhere near it and they aint going to get any better. They need someone checking up on them during a game, not after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 19 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said: I'm with Nige generally, but was tonight's ref really that bad? I didn't think so. If one of your players decides to risk a red card by making a mad challenge, you can't stand there and say yeah but their bloke retaliated. I agree in general, but the wrong game to bring this up, for me. I didn't think tonight's ref wasn't poor. All about opinions, I guess. Agree with you on tonight’s ref. (I’m also looking at it from the middle of the Dolman, so perhaps it’s something to do with the view!) I wonder if he chose tonight because we won. As others have alluded to, it comes across less like sour grapes. I also think the endless penalty shouts getting turned down has got to the point of being a joke now. You can say (like tonight) that they are 50/50 shouts, but the number we’ve had now defies mathematics. But I’d agree that we were harder done by at Hull and at Wigan than we were tonight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 Great interview from NP. Like I said in the matchday thread, tonight’s ref lost control of the game in the moments leading up to Sykes’ sending off. First there was the penalty not given (looked like a clear foul on Atkinson). I have watched the highlights now and to me it looked like a foul on Sykes that made him frustrated and make the rash challenge on Freeman. I can see why Sykes got a red card, but it should never have got that far, two bad decisions by the ref contributed to what happened. Increasingly decisions from refs are baffling. For balance, though, players and managers don’t help with the massive levels of cheating/diving and conning of the refs in the game. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 I wonder if the training they receive has changed since VAR was introduced in the prem, the standard certainly dropped about the time that VAR was introduced or shortly after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Skin Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 25 minutes ago, 2015 said: If you ever watch European football you realise how BAD our officials are from the top to bottom. Most of them just don't even understand the game We have foreign players and coaches so why doesn't the game recruit the best referees no matter where they are from? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Cider Life Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 So we all agree it’s a bad standard. Anyone got a solution? Went to a Surburban League Meeting last night and there was a warning that the if the two (yep just 2) new young referees get abuse then your team won’t get a ref for a month. A pretty empty threat as there are hardly any anyway. It’s all about critical mass, small numbers coming through mean standards drop and my guess is not many of you have ever reffed a game in your life. Don’t get me wrong, I am first off my seat to bemoan a decision but in the cold light of day what are any of us doing to make the situation better? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, bcfc01 said: The ones on the field are not up to the level, nowhere near it and they aint going to get any better. They need someone checking up on them during a game, not after. I agree but where are you getting them from . Like I said they’re too scared to overturn the on field ref anyway , especially if they’re young refs . That’s another 12 refs needed every week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, Offside said: Great interview from NP. Like I said in the matchday thread, tonight’s ref lost control of the game in the moments leading up to Sykes’ sending off. First there was the penalty not given (looked like a clear foul on Atkinson). I have watched the highlights now and to me it looked like a foul on Sykes that made him frustrated and make the rash challenge on Freeman. I can see why Sykes got a red card, but it should never have got that far, two bad decisions by the ref contributed to what happened. Increasingly decisions from refs are baffling. For balance, though, players and managers don’t help with the massive levels of cheating/diving and conning of the refs in the game. Really? OTT for me. One of our players chose to go two-footed. The players are all handbags, a decision had to be made, he made one. I'm all for hammering shit refs, but I tend to save the hammerings for the more deserved ones. We haven't had the rub of the green in a few games, but my way is get on with it because shouting off only makes things worse. History proves this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Offside said: Great interview from NP. Like I said in the matchday thread, tonight’s ref lost control of the game in the moments leading up to Sykes’ sending off. First there was the penalty not given (looked like a clear foul on Atkinson). I have watched the highlights now and to me it looked like a foul on Sykes that made him frustrated and make the rash challenge on Freeman. I can see why Sykes got a red card, but it should never have got that far, two bad decisions by the ref contributed to what happened. Increasingly decisions from refs are baffling. For balance, though, players and managers don’t help with the massive levels of cheating/diving and conning of the refs in the game. Absolutely. Sykes was badly fouled by Freeman, which the ref completely missed, so Sykes took matters into his own hands with his two-footed lunge at Freeman in return. Then Freeman had a go at Sykes which started the whole melee out on the pitch. Sykes had to go but so did Freeman. And none of this would have happened if the ref had been any good and spotted the original foul on Sykes in the first place. And if the referee was bad, the linesman in front of the Lansdown was even worse. Saw nothing all game, couldn’t keep up, and only gave one offside decision all game, which was against Martin and was wrong. Missed any number of offsides and infringements in the first half when Luton were attacking the South Stand. Stealing a living and getting to watch games into the bargain! 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Robin Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 46 minutes ago, chinapig said: Probability statistics is a complex field but perhaps we should contract a professional statistician to calculate the probability of us getting so few penalties over such a long period, present the findings and ask for a response? Though referees can barely calculate added time so perhaps not. Good suggestion, and matches my thinking very closely - it's far beyond the realms of being "improbable" or "unlucky". The likelihood of us being on the receiving of such poor decisions so consistently (over a period of years) is so unlikely that it could almost be approximated to being impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 I think var is needed. But as NP has previously said. With mics on ref and stockly park. As the egg pushers do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Balls Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said: I think var is needed. But as NP has previously said. With mics on ref and stockly park. As the egg pushers do it The difference with the rugby refs and the football ones is that the former have usually spotted something but want clarification, whereas the latter just get it wrong or miss the incident and need to be corrected. But agree that as per both rugby and cricket, we should get to see and hear it all as the video referees watch it back. And as for asking the referee to review it on a screen, we should all be allowed to see what he/she sees in real time. That said given the standard of Championship refs and their assistants games would last 2 hours plus (not including half time) as so much time would be taken up reviewing their incorrect decisions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocking Red Cyril Posted August 16, 2022 Report Share Posted August 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, Dr Balls said: The difference with the rugby refs and the football ones is that the former have usually spotted something but want clarification, whereas the latter just get it wrong or miss the incident and need to be corrected. But agree that as per both rugby and cricket, we should get to see and hear it all as the video referees watch it back. And as for asking the referee to review it on a screen, we should all be allowed to see what he/she sees in real time. That said given the standard of Championship refs and their assistants games would last 2 hours plus (not including half time) as so much time would be taken up reviewing their incorrect decisions! Yes I agree with you . But it now seems clear that refs are not good enough. So what needs to change . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinmans Love Child Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, AppyDAZE said: I'm with Nige generally, but was tonight's ref really that bad? I didn't think so. If one of your players decides to risk a red card by making a mad challenge, you can't stand there and say yeah but their bloke retaliated. I agree in general, but the wrong game to bring this up, for me. I didn't think tonight's ref was poor. All about opinions, I guess. Up until the penalty claim I hadn’t noticed the ref really which is a good thing, but he had a mental 5 minutes where every decision went to Luton and we didn’t get much after that really. I thought at the time Sykes challenge was risky so no complaints, but the pushing afterwards should have been a red also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offside Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, AppyDAZE said: Really? OTT for me. One of our players chose to go two-footed. The players are all handbags, a decision had to be made, he made one. I'm all for hammering shit refs, but I tend to save the hammerings for the more deserved ones. We haven't had the rub of the green in a few games, but my way is get on with it because shouting off only makes things worse. History proves this. Yep, that’s how I saw it. I’ve got no complaints with the red card for Sykes (although Freeman should have gone too), but that incident arose from mistakes the ref had made just before. It’s like how (as has been pointed out in other threads) refs sometimes fail to give an obvious penalty and then seem to realise their mistake and “make up for it” by giving a penalty that’s much more dubious. Overall I thought tonight’s ref was ok up to those few minutes up to the sending off, but his mistakes completely changed the complexion of the game. As to how to improve the standard of refereeing, I don’t know. I dislike the way VAR is used. I think refs’ jobs could be made easier by having harsher punishments for players caught diving/cheating/arguing with officials during games, even if this is in retrospect and based on video footage. Edited August 17, 2022 by Offside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted August 17, 2022 Admin Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 I don't normally subscribe to the theory that the top teams get favourable treatment from refs in regards to penalties, instead taking the view that they generally get more pens because they are up attacking round the box more often, giving the refs more opportunities to award them. That's fine for explaining our low return of 2 penalties 2 seasons ago when we were seriously poor and had the lowest number of shots in the Championship by some margin. However, it doesn't explain why last season we were awarded just 1 all season when we were actually one of the top scorers in the league! Consistently for several seasons now, it has been getting worse, here are the numbers (and our ranking within the Championship) for penalties awarded. 15/16 - 5 - 13th 16/17 - 8 - 9th 17/18 - 4 - 16th 18/19 - 2 - 23rd 19/20 - 3 - 22nd 20/21 - 2 - 24th 21/22 - 1 - 24th For the last four seasons, we average a penalty every 23 games! Incidentally, as well as receiving the (joint) least amount of penalties last season, we also conceded the (joint) most. InStat provided an analysis of 31 European Domestic leagues since the start of the 2018/19 season until 10/01/2022 (https://www.football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/b5wp/2021/wp364/en/). You'll likely be unsurprised to learn that of the 600 teams included in this table, we are bottom of the lot. So what you may say? Someone has to be bottom right? Ok, but the gap between us (a penalty every 1834 minutes) and the team in second from bottom (Hapoel Hadera who get a penalty every 1517 minutes) is 317 minutes. That spread at the other end of the table covers the top 207 clubs! Since then I believe we have played a further 25 Championship matches without a penalty taking us up to an average of 2115 minutes between penalties No wonder Nige is a bit peeved. 6 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted August 17, 2022 Admin Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 To all those concerned about the plight of Hapoel Hadera, since that table was published they received 3 penalties in the remaining 16 games of their season, one every 480 minutes 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 3 hours ago, cellist said: One for the spreadsheet guys: do managers' fines from the football league count against us for FFP? As far as I’m aware the fine will be charged to the club, and deducted from Nige’s pay….so not an issue for FFP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) He's probably also seen that our old pal Andy Davies, of QPR game fame, is down to do the Wycombe game next week. That'll do wonders for his mood.... Edited August 17, 2022 by Northern Red Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snufflelufagus Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 5 hours ago, Red Skin said: We have foreign players and coaches so why doesn't the game recruit the best referees no matter where they are from? Agree with this. Enough money in the game to get them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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