Han-Noah Massengo

[DaveF]

I wouldn't say he's overrated at all. 

Hes only just turned 21 and is comfortably good enough for this level. He has made a few errors and can be inconsistent but he's still got about 8 years until he hits his prime.

He was poor against Blackpool but absolutely ran the show against Luton and was everywhere.

He's got a bit of everything to his game and has started getting himself into good positions, though his finishing has let him down.

Really hope he signs a new deal as he is a great option to have.

[MC RISK77]

3 hours ago, harrys said:

That Swindon lot are slugs

Little slugs with no personality 

[Kibs]

I can’t believe he’s being compared to Neil Kilkenny. Unbelievable.

Never saw Kilkenny drive forward, play at pace, make a tackle (ever), rush opposition players into mistakes, steal the ball, win a header, break the lines. 

The only similarity is that they both play in midfield! 

We are a different team when he is on his game and we play a more youthful, dynamic midfield IMO. Easy to forget his young age, he’ll go on to far better things than Bristol City.

[bcfc01]

More than good enough for this division on his day and one of the best technically in our squad.

If he were under contract for another 2 or 3 years, I'd be hoping he would get a good run in the team to iron out the inconsistencies in his game - same as with most young players.

But he's not signing a contract, so I think it is perfectly reasonable to use him to fill in when necessary - he aint going to get any better in this case, but thats down to him and/or his advisors. He's been treading water for some time.

Could be wrong, but I'm not sure that he's going to get any/many offers at a higher level.

[DaveF]

6 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Little slugs with no personality 

They're just jealous because we're better than them at everything.

[Numero Uno]

I want to see more from HNM. The talent is there and the time has come to make the next step and not “allow” some games to pass him by. It looks like hie is staying for now so I want to see a goal threat and assists output that at least matches Scott for example who wasn’t great himself Saturday but got an important assist and could and should have scored. If the lad wants to make the next step up and get regular minutes at that level he needs to add this to his game. Being energetic, skilful, neat and tidy is a good thing but he also needs to produce.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Numero Uno

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, Ghost Rider said:

This is going to be pretty controversial, or is it? Han-Noah Massengo, in my humble opinion is one of the most overated Bristol City players in history!  Can someone actually explain to me what he brings to the table? 

I don't want this to turn into a slagging match, as maybe I just need to be educated. This is how I view it. He has 1 good game in every 10. He doesn't score goals, he doesn't assist. He doesn't want to be here and is refusing to sign a contract. Granted, he runs around a lot, but he also constantly loses his man. I just don't get him as a player and why the fans love him.

If his name was Paul Smith, had a short back and sides haircut, and we'd signed him from Doncaster, the fans would be screaming blue murder. 

@DavefevsHave you got any stats on him and how he ranks against other midfielders in the league? I'd bet bottom dollar that even Bakinson has better stats for City. 

Am I missing something? 

 

 

Here is last season’s stats…all 180ish Championship Central Midfielders.

Most sections, e.g. Creative Passing is “chunked” into two sections:

- how many do they make,

- how successful are they

Each bar is a “percentile rank”.  So if you look at Key Passes p90, you’ll see he’s in the 55th percentile, that means 45% are better than him, but he’s better than 55% of his cohort.

The darker green, the better he is compared to his cohort, the darker red the worse he is.

Now balance that with the type of midfielder he is, and you see strengths in his “on the ball” play (dribbles, runs, getting fouled) and duels, where apart from aerially he ranks really well.

His general passing needs work.

You have to overlay the type of team we were last season too.  Wyscout adjusts only a couple of stats for possession, so passing stats (in the main) will be lower than a Swansea player, who pass it for passing’s sake.

Hope all of that makes sense.

I think it’s a fair summary to glance at the above and say that as a 20 year old (he was 20 last season when the data was cut) he ain’t doing too badly.

As for a comparison with Bakinson, it will depend what stats you want to compare.

The above is Tyreeq at a lower level for a pass-heavy team.

Now look below and see how different they are at Championship level!

Lots of pass attempts, terrible success rate. And he’s meant to be a passer!

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

It’s exactly this.

For all the “Paul Smith” comment (nice shirts, by the way), also the fact that there was so much hype around an 18 year old who had already played in the Champions League & allegedly cost us £7.2m (most now believe at it was actually just over a third of that), really hasn’t done him any favours.

If he was called Walsh & we had signed him from Everton (BTW how did that one turn out?) then this publicity wouldn’t be there.

He has turned in some standout performances, Preston away saw opposition fans say he was the best midfielder they saw all season & he was really excellent against both Cardiff & Luton recently, but probably not quite often enough.

He’s still only just 21, so I doubt he’s reached his best, that might be elsewhere though.

As for the FBC comment, that is just silly, any time spent on here will see Vyner, Martin & on occasions Bentley scapegoated, this happens on every platform with a voice.

Plus anyone comparing him with Kilkenny, dear oh dear.

I think we are seeing a trend towards more consistency in his performances.

We see just as much inconsistency from the majority of our senior players too, but the “consistent” word isn’t used very often.

3 hours ago, Simon79 said:

Put them into a foreign league ( not to mention the most competitive & combative in the world ) & see how they get on. He also plays in the most difficult position on the pitch imo. Which is why Alex Scott is such an exception. He in my opinion, has the highest ceiling of potential ( along with Scott ) in the squad. He now has to bring consistency into his game, no great surprise after just turning 21. There is also sometimes off the pitch things that can affect on pitch matters. He is a footballer in the purest term, was it a coincidence that one of his best performances of late was with a midfield combination of Han & Scott? Two players that move, offer angles, exceptional touch, work hard, tenacity, & have trust in their own ability to receive the ball in tight situations? Not to mention having mobile movement in front of them. After all, you can only pass if someone shows & wants it. As for comparing him to Kilkenny, I would imagine said more so for affect, at least I hope so! The only comparison is that they play in Midfield & come from a different country. Love watching Han & would be in my starting eleven. Hopefully signs a contract, but will Watch with interest if he moves on. COYR 

I can’t really remember seeing Kilkenny, so won’t enter that debate.

I posted elsewhere that if Han signed a new deal that by the end of the season we’d see a changing of the (midfield) guard to Williams, Scott and Massengo…which is very young, rather than a midfield with James and King in it.

32 minutes ago, DaveF said:

I wouldn't say he's overrated at all. 

Hes only just turned 21 and is comfortably good enough for this level. He has made a few errors and can be inconsistent but he's still got about 8 years until he hits his prime.

He was poor against Blackpool but absolutely ran the show against Luton and was everywhere.

He's got a bit of everything to his game and has started getting himself into good positions, though his finishing has let him down.

Really hope he signs a new deal as he is a great option to have.

I think my stats above (which are a pretty accurate summary of the eye test) show he is a more than capable Championship midfielder.

His price tag creates an expectation, but wasn’t £7.2m, French media tend to quote fee, add-ons and wages over contract in the total “price”.  The annual accounts back up the view from Gregor that it was $3m (£2.7m ish).  We paid for potential too.  I think that potential is starting to shine through more regularly.  Before the Luton and Cardiff games he also played well at Coventry.

[TV Tom]

2 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

Little slugs with no personality 

You should of heard what they were saying about you 

[Littlesh*t]

5 hours ago, The Bard said:

 WIlliams didn't play vs Luton but hey ho

Was it the Cardiff game? One game recently everything he tried 1st half was off 

[phantom]

Good to see HNM getting his homework done during the international break 

[Loco Rojo]

13 minutes ago, phantom said:

Good to see HNM getting his homework done during the international break 

Nothing to see here. Just double checking the terms of his new contract 

[Rob k]

I see he was playing u23s today instead of in tonight’s game, have we seen the last of him now in the 1st team - whilst I’m not his biggest fan I’d have expected him to play tonight 

[TomShor10]

I suppose if NP has taken this stance on him for the league he can’t have a different one for the cup

[Simon bristol]

It would appear likely,,, ideally we will get a decent offer and get something back for him in january.

[Sir Geoff]

A case of going, going, gone imo.

[Tony Tootle]

He’s made his bed, now he can lie in it.

[Akira]

Such a shame, always found him exciting to watch. 

[daored]

55 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I see he was playing u23s today instead of in tonight’s game, have we seen the last of him now in the 1st team - whilst I’m not his biggest fan I’d have expected him to play tonight 

Doubt we’ll see him in the first team squad again 

[Ivorguy]

It looks like Au Revoir

[Pezo]

Like everyone that gets a lower offer when negotiating a contract he will want to see what the rest of the market is like before committing to another few years.

Sensible on both sides just to carry on as it is until a decision can be made.

[Red & Gold]

I felt we could really had done with his higher intensity pressing game last Saturday, which may have allowed us to get closer to players such as Howson. Williams and James (+ King) are a little more one paced, so even if Scott goes, we are not able to press in multiple numbers as intently, made worse if there are two games in a week, given their injuries and age. It will need to be target area in Jan and is perhaps a role Nige was refer to as a player with a bit more x-factor.

[BCFCGav]

This bombing out players after a poor game is a bit tiresome. No reason he shouldn’t have started over Kadji tonight. 

[italian dave]

22 minutes ago, BCFCGav said:

This bombing out players after a poor game is a bit tiresome. No reason he shouldn’t have started over Kadji tonight. 

Agree. I’m not sure why he’s being frozen out but

a) if it’s simply because he hasn’t signed a contract, that’s nonsense. He’s under no obligation to do so. You don’t sideline players just because they won’t sign a contract precisely when you want them to

b) if it’s because of a perceived lack of commitment because of a), well there are other players who appear to have their minds very much elsewhere at present and still feature every week.

He’s an experienced Championship midfielder. We needed that tonight. 

[Sheltons Army]

15 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Agree. I’m not sure why he’s being frozen out but

a) if it’s simply because he hasn’t signed a contract, that’s nonsense. He’s under no obligation to do so. You don’t sideline players just because they won’t sign a contract precisely when you want them to

b) if it’s because of a perceived lack of commitment because of a), well there are other players who appear to have their minds very much elsewhere at present and still feature every week.

He’s an experienced Championship midfielder. We needed that tonight. 

You don’t get it ?

 

Hes not going to be part of this Club post May , or possibly January 

And He’s hardly a game changer is he , the odd half decent performance his highlights 

So , Why use him rather than somebody who is going to be part of the Club next season 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Agree. I’m not sure why he’s being frozen out but

a) if it’s simply because he hasn’t signed a contract, that’s nonsense. He’s under no obligation to do so. You don’t sideline players just because they won’t sign a contract precisely when you want them to

b) if it’s because of a perceived lack of commitment because of a), well there are other players who appear to have their minds very much elsewhere at present and still feature every week.

He’s an experienced Championship midfielder. We needed that tonight. 

Paraphrased from Nige:

- he’s looking at other options

- he’s a great lad

- he will keep himself fit and if he’s needed he’s said he’ll be ready

 

It appears to not just be a case of not committing to a contract (like others???), but actively looking at options…I assume as early as January (whether that be sold, loaned, pre-contract, who knows).  Nige is using these games to see what he has here.  Kadji failed his audition tonight imho.  More on him in another thread.

[italian dave]

4 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

You don’t get it ?

 

Hes not going to be part of this Club post away , or possibly January 

And He’s hardly a game changer is he , the odd half decent performance his highlights 

So , Why use him rather than somebody who is going to be part of the Club next season 

Because you want to win games.

And even half decent would have been better than what we had out there tonight.

You deliberately leave him on when he’s having a bad game (Birmingham) rather than replace him and give yourselves a better chance of a result.

And then leave him frozen out of a game like tonight’s when he’d be decent experienced option at a time you want to rest some first team players.

Deliberately leaving a player in or out simply to make personal points at the expense of the team and of results? No, I don’t get it. 

[marcofisher]

One of the worst signings in City history for me. Seemed lightweight and ineffective when he first came in, not ready for a number of years because of that. By the time he is able to put a few decent performances is, he is into the last two years of his contract and then enters a contract stalemate. And then is shown to be completely inferior to another even younger midfielder who comes through our academy.

Complete exemplification of the MA/LJ disaster era of signings, big exciting signings which very much resulted in wasted wages and will end up leaving for peanuts if not free after insignificant contribution. 

[Sheltons Army]

10 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Because you want to win games.

And even half decent would have been better than what we had out there tonight.

You deliberately leave him on when he’s having a bad game (Birmingham) rather than replace him and give yourselves a better chance of a result.

And then leave him frozen out of a game like tonight’s when he’d be decent experienced option at a time you want to rest some first team players.

Deliberately leaving a player in or out simply to make personal points at the expense of the team and of results? No, I don’t get it. 

Not so sure he’s an obvious candidate for helping us to win games personally 

[MyBrotherErnie]

3 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

One of the worst signings in City history for me. Seemed lightweight and ineffective when he first came in, not ready for a number of years because of that. By the time he is able to put a few decent performances is, he is into the last two years of his contract and then enters a contract stalemate. And then is shown to be completely inferior to another even younger midfielder who comes through our academy.

Complete exemplification of the MA/LJ disaster era of signings, big exciting signings which very much resulted in wasted wages and will end up leaving for peanuts if not free after insignificant contribution. 

Is this serious? He's played over 100 games, mostly quite well with a few excellent games and a few weak games. In a weak and inexperienced squad as a young player. Would have been good to have recouped at least some of the investment but not a bad signing overall, let alone one of the worst in our history. 

[marcofisher]

1 minute ago, MyBrotherErnie said:

Is this serious? He's played over 100 games, mostly quite well with a few excellent games and a few weak games. In a weak and inexperienced squad as a young player. Would have been good to have recouped at least some of the investment but not a bad signing overall, let alone one of the worst in our history. 

The lad was signed for multiple millions of pounds and never really justified the outlay on him and was completely mismanaged. Will defo go into the poor signings column of this current city era 

Edited November 8, 2022 by marcofisher