I like this squad….

[Sir Geoff]

58 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Big pay rise and a move from Blackpool to Greece. I'd guess he's bloody delighted about the situation!! 

Depends what his ambitions are. If it is to play in the Premier League then he's been sold a dud. Big pay rise great, that will pay for any holiday he wants in Greece. A bit different living there for a year imo.

[CliftonCliff]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

We finally look able to control and take care of the ball better.

Absolutely this, almost above any other consideration.

For what seemed a very long time, I was watching games and tearing my hair out at a glaring inability to string a few decent passes together. It was exasperating and baffling in equal measure. Even experienced, mature players like James appeared at times unable to execute a simple pass and persistently gave the ball away. My mates will tell you I sounded like a stuck record, repeatedly saying through gritted teeth "just look after the ****ing ball, for Christ's sake!" We became for a time a counter-attacking team, and to be fair actually started to look quite good at it, but it was making a virtue out of a necessity. We had no choice but to play on the break, because most of the time we surrendered possession to the other side and were playing without the ball for long periods.

It looks utterly different now. The other night, I watched as Scott and others strutted their stuff, knocking the ball around with confidence, with Huddersfield chasing shadows at times. I could hardly believe I was watching the same group of players. And there was that opening move from the kick-off at Blackpool, when I counted something like ten or a dozen passes without the opposition getting a touch, before Well hit the post. If that had gone in, it would have gone down in history as one of the great City goals, rather like that one of Tammy's that gets replayed every now and again, where we kept the ball for twenty-odd passes or whatever it was.

We're seeing confident, controlled, sustained possession at last: it's a breath of fresh air and a joy to watch. If we can just persuade one or two individuals not to be over-confident and stop playing suicide balls in dangerous territory... (but that's been debated at length elsewhere).

[Alessandro]

20 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Or , more simply put

 

 

The era of missed opportunity

Very simplified conclusion to a very long and detailed argument IMO!

Football’s a game of missed opportunities after all….

[SE23Red]

7 minutes ago, spudski said:

I said...'could'...not 'would'

I just get sick to death of watching our best players being sold on.

It does my head in.

It's all well and good selling...but you have to replace with players that will make you better. Then they have to develop and settle in...so another season gone. It's continual catch up. 

As a team in this league with no parachute payments, imo, the only way of being near promotion is if we develop and keep our assets together for a season minimum. What's the point otherwise.

We buy players, or develop through academy, and during that time we become an average team. As soon as we become good/better...we sell our best players. 

To continue selling we will never go up. No chance. 

It's just continual one step forward, 2 steps back. 

It's the hope that kills you.

 

But isn't our recruitment over the last three months exactly aligned to what you wish for? 

Given the media circus that is deadline day it's noticeable our latest deal for a first team player was way back in mid-July. As a club we basically took control of our own destiny, executed a recruitment plan early and then got to work on building a playing identity.

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, spudski said:

I said...'could'...not 'would'

I just get sick to death of watching our best players being sold on.

It does my head in.

It's all well and good selling...but you have to replace with players that will make you better. Then they have to develop and settle in...so another season gone. It's continual catch up. 

As a team in this league with no parachute payments, imo, the only way of being near promotion is if we develop and keep our assets together for a season minimum. What's the point otherwise.

We buy players, or develop through academy, and during that time we become an average team. As soon as we become good/better...we sell our best players. 

To continue selling we will never go up. No chance. 

It's just continual one step forward, 2 steps back. 

It's the hope that kills you.

 

Just hypothetically, would you therefore be willing to swallow a small to modest points deduction If failure to sell saw us breach limits? I'm starting to think maybe it would be worth it to keep varied players for longer.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[swanker]

I like Pearson and it has been interesting to watch how he’s gone about rebuilding the club. I know performances and results haven’t been what we’ve wanted but slowly he’s turned us around. 
 

He said he wanted a project and it’s starting to look like the city job is exactly what he wanted. 
 

I know everyone had a opinion on how thing should be done, especially when things aren’t going well. But Just sit back now and watch a bloke who knows what he doing turn us into a good footballing side. 
 

At the moment I will be expecting us to get some kind of result no matter who we’re playing. 

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, SE23Red said:

But isn't our recruitment over the last three months exactly aligned to what you wish for? 

Given the media circus that is deadline day it's noticeable our latest deal for a first team player was way back in mid-July. As a club we basically took control of our own destiny, executed a recruitment plan early and then got to work on building a playing identity.

I agree...what we did pre season was excellent, as has been this window.

However, it's all well and good recruiting players, if they are already at a level to kick on.

We are in the market for young hungry players that still need to develop and find their level.

My point being...we don't get to a point where our players develop as one and we become a team capable of promotion.

It's great seeing these players develop, but in the end the only people benefiting are the teams they end up at.

It's a never ending circle, of develop and sell your best.

I'm all for the system we have in place...as long as we keep players to eventually benefit from.

Otherwise it pointless...a perpetual chain of just keeping afloat.

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just hypothetically, would you therefore be willing to swallow a small to modest points deduction If failure to sell saw us breach limits? I'm starting to think maybe it would be worth it to keep varied players for longer.

I guess it depends on the points deduction...and whether there are clauses in players contracts, that when triggered means they leave, or they want to.

I can't see us ever being top 6 if we don't hold onto our best players for over a season.

[Sheltons Army]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just hypothetically, would you therefore be willing to swallow a small to modest points deduction If failure to sell saw us breach limits? I'm starting to think maybe it would be worth it.

I would Mr P , 

Tye benefits of turning down any bid in the window just closed is

i) We get the benefit on the pitch of Antoine , Scott etc , at least until January

ii) Assuming we get our belief re any ongoing / future transfer value Correct  , I would hope the extra fee we eventually receive anyone subject of a unsatisfactory / derisory bid in the window just gone , will more than compensate for a small amount of points

A point deduction could, of course , in theory push out of a play off place , but , if I’m honest I’m not sure we are yet looking serious play off contenders , if we continue recent results , that may change.
 

And , it would be difficult to quantify but I’d suggest that keeping those players subject of interest , will see us acquire more points by being involved , than we would lose by any points deduction

The good thing is , and credit to them , and something that allows us to make easier decisions, is the conduct and attitude of Scott , Semenyo etc who appear, for now at least , to keep their heads down and play 

Either could have made life more difficult by making it clear they wanted a move , and they put the Boly’s , Fofana’s Ronaldo’s , of the world ,  and their conduct , completely to shame 

 

On the FFP situation , if we were tight or just over , I know the Nathan Baker retirement won’t see us get any FFP‘allowance’ because of it , but I’d suggest it would be pretty good mitigation regarding any possible penalty.

[mozo]

58 minutes ago, spudski said:

I said...'could'...not 'would'

I just get sick to death of watching our best players being sold on.

It does my head in.

It's all well and good selling...but you have to replace with players that will make you better. Then they have to develop and settle in...so another season gone. It's continual catch up. 

As a team in this league with no parachute payments, imo, the only way of being near promotion is if we develop and keep our assets together for a season minimum. What's the point otherwise.

We buy players, or develop through academy, and during that time we become an average team. As soon as we become good/better...we sell our best players. 

To continue selling we will never go up. No chance. 

It's just continual one step forward, 2 steps back. 

It's the hope that kills you.

 

Oh yeah I agree. It's annoying be a selling club, but frankly we've recently become a 'letting them run their contract down' club and that's equally annoying as it keeps our transfer budget at zero! 

Our form recently has been sweet relief. It's a nice change that OTIB is getting giddy and talking about success. I do think it's a bit premature though. 

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

Oh yeah I agree. It's annoying be a selling club, but frankly we've recently become a 'letting them run their contract down' club and that's equally annoying as it keeps our transfer budget at zero! 

Our form recently has been sweet relief. It's a nice change that OTIB is getting giddy and talking about success. I do think it's a bit premature though. 

It’s actually nice , to , again , have some players that are coveted by other Clubs !!!!

[KegCity]

Talking about retaining players, how did Brentford manage to keep Toney and Villa keep Grealish? Surely both had a lot of interest in them while they were in the championship?

 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, mozo said:

Oh yeah I agree. It's annoying be a selling club, but frankly we've recently become a 'letting them run their contract down' club and that's equally annoying as it keeps our transfer budget at zero! 

Our form recently has been sweet relief. It's a nice change that OTIB is getting giddy and talking about success. I do think it's a bit premature though. 

Seeing the development and the potential of this squad, is why people are saying we could be successful. Pair that with a more even league...no apparent stand outs, and you can understand people's optimism.

Keeping them all together for a season or two...that's the dream... hopefully one day a reality.

[cellist]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Talking about retaining players, how did Brentford manage to keep Toney and Villa keep Grealish? Surely both had a lot of interest in them while they were in the championship?

 

By getting promoted I guess. If Brentford hadn't, Toney would surely have gone (eg. Maupay and Benrahma previously)

Grealish is a Villa fan. Described scoring the winner against Birmingham (in the game where he got walloped by a supporter) as "the best day of my loife". Maybe Conway would stay to help us get promoted as a Bristol lad. Not sure about Scott or Semenyo though!

[ooRya]

2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

The past is the past, but I have seen a fair amount of re-writing of history recently on here when it comes to LJ and MA.

With the benefit of hindsight, you can take a step back and say "that was wrong" and "that worked".

The fact is, what, 9,10 of those players in the squad vs. Huddersfield were bought or were coming through/developed during the MA/LJ period.

Yes, I've been critical, MA and LJ/DH left us in a FFP mess, the recruitment process wasn't working, however, firstly you can't deny the impact of covid and secondly we were, during that period, one big player sale fee from being closer to, if not well in, the black, simplistically.

Secondly, yes, in the end, the football style became too pragmatic and tough to watch and Holden compounded that, but let's not forget that there were periods of good football, consistent top half challenges and some unforgettable away and home nights (Man Utd e.g). I've read various comments along the line of "years of awful football under LJ is finally over" etc etc - i'm not sure that's entirely fair. 

Thirdly and finally, let's not forget other ground work put in place, off the top of my head the training ground, the influence in facilities at the stadium and work in the academy etc - Alex Scott and Tommy Conway etc didn't come out of nowhere and that era of MA and LJ etc deserves some credit for some of these foundations too IMO.

Anyway, look, as I say past is the past, LJ and MA needed to go and were right to go in the end and we'll learn from their many mistakes - If you never wanted LJ from the start, well i'm sure you're opinion will never change, but to wipe out that whole period as a dark blot our our recent history best forgotten, is IMO unfair and incorrect.

Great post!

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, Rob k said:

I keep seeing this….let me put the record straight. I sit with them both within a big group, yes they are both well informed and know what they are talking about when it comes to City’s inner workings, but to say they have lost objectivity is completely wrong. I myself disagreed with them about the penalty decision at Hull and there was a long chat about it in the stands, but they are entitled to an opinion, that doesn’t mean they hate NP because they liked Macca and LJ. 90% of things we all agree on, 10%  we don’t - that’s football. 

Thank you. I really don’t get (I’d even venture into boiling piss territory) this notion that you have to either “love” or “hate” a manager. And even more strangely, that just because you ‘loved’ one you necessarily ‘hate’ their successor. 

It is possible to be supportive of any City manager, to recognise that each has their strengths and their weaknesses, and that almost invariably they’ll do things that will split fans’ views, because we all see things slightly differently. 

Oh, and yes, I like this squad too. Not much to add to what’s already been said. 

[CyderInACan]

54 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just hypothetically, would you therefore be willing to swallow a small to modest points deduction If failure to sell saw us breach limits? I'm starting to think maybe it would be worth it to keep varied players for longer.

I don’t think, given his well known stance around FFP etc , that Steve Lansdown would permit that. 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

I just get sick to death of watching our best players being sold on.

It's all well and good selling...but you have to replace with players that will make you better. Then they have to develop and settle in...so another season gone. It's continual catch up. 

As a team in this league with no parachute payments, imo, the only way of being near promotion is if we develop and keep our assets together for a season minimum. What's the point otherwise.

We buy players, or develop through academy, and during that time we become an average team. As soon as we become good/better...we sell our best players. 

To continue selling we will never go up. No chance. 

It's just continual one step forward, 2 steps back. 

It's the hope that kills you.

The bigger fish eat the smaller fish and that’s how the football industry works - how many lower league players have City signed over the years?

Thats the way it’s always been for a club of Citys standing.

That said I’m sure we’ll all agree that it’s really frustrating to see our best player gets sold pretty much season on season and yet SL has expected  whoever the manager is to build a squad capable of promotion despite losing his better players. It’s like making an omelette without cracking eggs. i wonder where City would be now if the likes of Webster, Kelly, Bryan, Reid and Pack had not been sold………...

However……….since Nige has arrived none of our starlets have been sold and that’s a significant factor in his project of getting us to the Promised Land.  The January window will be another huge test particularly if AS has hit 10-15 goals by then.

[Numero Uno]

47 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

On the FFP situation , if we were tight or just over , I know the Nathan Baker retirement won’t see us get any FFP‘allowance’ because of it , but I’d suggest it would be pretty good mitigation regarding any possible penalty.

It would be very good mitigation for not selling a player to cover any shortfall........

[Rob k]

3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think we've just got to give it our best shot this season and see what happens.

It's entirely feasible that in January we lose both Scott and Semenyo - January is always an awkward month to recruit, so we've got to make a real run of good form over the next few months and see what we can do..

If we’re top 9 and in with a shot of the play offs I’d be amazed if either got sold at that point. They will still be worth £££ in the summer, Scott especially due to length of contract 

[spudski]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

The bigger fish eat the smaller fish and that’s how the football industry works - how many lower league players have City signed over the years?

Thats the way it’s always been for a club of Citys standing.

That said I’m sure we’ll all agree that it’s really frustrating to see our best player gets sold pretty much season on season and yet SL has expected  whoever the manager is to build a squad capable of promotion despite losing his better players. It’s like making an omelette without cracking eggs. i wonder where City would be now if the likes of Webster, Kelly, Bryan, Reid and Pack had not been sold………...

However……….since Nige has arrived none of our starlets have been sold and that’s a significant factor in his project of getting us to the Promised Land.  The January window will be another huge test particularly if AS has hit 10-15 goals by then.

Again...that's a given RR...we all realise that.

For the perpetual circle to be broken...things need to change, otherwise we will always be where we are. 

Hopefully January goes by without anyone leaving.

[fgrsimon]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just hypothetically, would you therefore be willing to swallow a small to modest points deduction If failure to sell saw us breach limits? I'm starting to think maybe it would be worth it to keep varied players for longer.

3 points maybe but not 6.

I think it's a psychological thing, Reading last season never seemed to get away from the missing (was it 6? ) points despite a reasonable start to the season. I guess always looking at the table and thinking where we would be without a deduction can drag players and supporters down. 

[GrahamC]

39 minutes ago, cellist said:

By getting promoted I guess. If Brentford hadn't, Toney would surely have gone (eg. Maupay and Benrahma previously)

Grealish is a Villa fan. Described scoring the winner against Birmingham (in the game where he got walloped by a supporter) as "the best day of my loife". Maybe Conway would stay to help us get promoted as a Bristol lad. Not sure about Scott or Semenyo though!

He’s from Taunton & he’s an Arsenal fan..

I’m sure he loves it here but not quite the same.

Grealish still went in the end & Villa were back in the Prem.

I do think there is a lot of naivety in these posts, we’re only selling because Ashton buggered up our finances.

Difference is we have a clear plan now, experienced manager & a CEO who appears to have the club, not himself as his first thought.

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, spudski said:

Again...that's a given RR...we all realise that.

For the perpetual circle to be broken...things need to change, otherwise we will always be where we are. 

Hopefully January goes by without anyone leaving.

I freely admit that I know very little about FFP and all it’s complications but know enough to realise that when the winter window arrives that City may have to raise income from transfers so it’s very very unlikely that Nige will be able to hang on to all his starlets - particularly so if the likes of Semenyo has been scoring regularly and if Scott has impressed in midfield.

I’ll be more concerned about the January window than I was about the most recent one.

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I freely admit that I know very little about FFP and all it’s complications but know enough to realise that when the winter window arrives that City may have to raise income from transfers so it’s very very unlikely that Nige will be able to hang on to all his starlets - particularly so if the likes of Semenyo has been scoring regularly and if Scott has impressed in midfield.

I’ll be more concerned about the January window than I was about the most recent one.

I can only take SL at his word, but he said we don’t need to sell, Nige has re-iterated that.  I’m not sure whether RG was truly answering the question in his recent interview, think he was more trying to be cautious with rule changes, etc, whilst knowing we still have a decent period to recover any overspend.

Ny gut feel is that worst case we have a registration restriction in January and by that I mean the EFL just want to keep tabs on us in case we want to undo all the hard work we’ve done in bringing down the cost base.  If Derby are allowed to sign players up to £8k pw in Lg1 after all their shit, I can’t see us being restricted from signing a player within our (perceived) wage structure.

So I don’t think we will have to sell in January either.  Maybe I’m over-confident.

Beating Lincoln in the Carabao Cup and earning a plum-tie would be no bad thing either.

We will have a bit more knowledge of the contract situations of the OOC players by January too.  Just extending one or two of those players is helping our FFP position….and if they don’t sign, then the mitigation to the EFL is “look at further cost reductions we have next season too”.

[spudski]

30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I freely admit that I know very little about FFP and all it’s complications but know enough to realise that when the winter window arrives that City may have to raise income from transfers so it’s very very unlikely that Nige will be able to hang on to all his starlets - particularly so if the likes of Semenyo has been scoring regularly and if Scott has impressed in midfield.

I’ll be more concerned about the January window than I was about the most recent one.

Fevs  has answered eloquently and to the point, and it's how I feel also.

Even if that is the case, where we don't have to sell ...we don't know what is written into players contracts. They may have triggers on release clauses. So even if we don't want to sell, a price may come in where a player wants to move for financial security or prospect of attaining a higher level of football. That's an unknown.

[RED4LIFE]

The one thing that keeps coming to mind when I think of where we can be as a club is what Brian Tinnion said last year with regards to the academy players in the first team and that is, although we blooded a fair few which was impressive, the next lot coming through are even better.

Considering we have had Antoine, Alex Scott, Ayman Benarous and now Tommy Conway making an impact thats a huge endorsement. 

Maybe, just maybe, we can afford to sell one or two of these to dig us out of the financial hole we're in and replace them with kids who cost us nothing in transfer fees and who can still make us a better team?

Maybe I'm clinging to straws after too many false dawns but I honestly feel very optimistic of our long term future. If we suffer a bit in the short term, I can live with that.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, RED4LIFE said:

The one thing that keeps coming to mind when I think of where we can be as a club is what Brian Tinnion said last year with regards to the academy players in the first team and that is, although we blooded a fair few which was impressive, the next lot coming through are even better.

Yes , he did , and it’s an excellent point

[Lew-T]

48 minutes ago, RED4LIFE said:

The one thing that keeps coming to mind when I think of where we can be as a club is what Brian Tinnion said last year with regards to the academy players in the first team and that is, although we blooded a fair few which was impressive, the next lot coming through are even better.

Considering we have had Antoine, Alex Scott, Ayman Benarous and now Tommy Conway making an impact thats a huge endorsement. 

Maybe, just maybe, we can afford to sell one or two of these to dig us out of the financial hole we're in and replace them with kids who cost us nothing in transfer fees and who can still make us a better team?

Maybe I'm clinging to straws after too many false dawns but I honestly feel very optimistic of our long term future. If we suffer a bit in the short term, I can live with that.

I’m really excited for Benarous to come back. 

[ciderwithtommy]

Said it before, it’s so refreshing that we are now a club that clearly send a message to the  market that our key players are only available at the right time, and price, for us. I do not believe for one second the Pack sale on transfer deadline day would even be considered anymore, because we are being run properly. 
 

yes our top players are of course going to move on if we can’t offer them prem wages/games, but it should be controlled and planned for. I have full confidence that if Semenyo were to leave, we already have plans in place, hence why Nige said it’s too late in the day this week. We are prioritising the club over the ego of the ceo (and maybe their bank balance). 
 

Pleasure to support us at the moment, long may it continue.