Southport Red Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 For my sins I have been a Management Consultant for more years than I care to remember In all that time, and in many different industries I have noticed that the BIG mistake NEARLY ALL people make when first promoted to management is to try to change everything at once. It is human nature, to want to make ones mark, to stamp ones own 'personality' on the job. If promoted from within the organisation many rebel against the strategies and plans of their predecessor and change everything. The bad ones stubbornly persist with their changes even in the light of evidence suggesting they are faulty, they (mistakenly) take this stubborness as being a demonstration of some Thatcher-like 'strength of will and purpose' of being 'resolute' and 'one's own man' - invariably they are wrong. We lost out on prootion by the slenderest of margins last year (if that ball at Swindon had hit Lee Miller in the face instead of squarely on his forehead... ah well), the objective for Tinnion this year was to go TWO POINTS better than last years team. I sincerely believe we have the best players in this division, and I do not doubt Tinman's passion, commitment or ability BUT... The objective is to go two points better than last years team, not change evry aspect of the way we play. Last night at Barnsley (and last Saturday at Ashton) we had players who didn't know what they were supposed to be doing or where they were supposed to be doing it. We started out in a 4-3-3 but after a while the players started to drift towards their natural positions (old habits die hard when you are 25 and have been playing that way for 20 years), consequently, for most of the game our people were 8 or 9 feet out of position and Barnsley were able to pass the ball around them with ease. And before anyone comes back with a sentence that includes the words 'time' and 'gelling', Barnsley fielded 8 debutants last night, they had 'gelled' because they knew where they were supposed to be! In my experience, the very best managers learn very quickly from their mistakes, what works and what doesn't, the truly excellent managers hold their hands up and say "I was wrong - let's do this instead" Come on Tins time to show how good you REALLY are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pewsham Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 For my sins I have been a Management Consultant for more years than I care to remember In all that time, and in many different industries I have noticed that the BIG mistake NEARLY ALL people make when first promoted to management is to try to change everything at once. It is human nature, to want to make ones mark, to stamp ones own 'personality' on the job. If promoted from within the organisation many rebel against the strategies and plans of their predecessor and change everything. The bad ones stubbornly persist with their changes even in the light of evidence suggesting they are faulty, they (mistakenly) take this stubborness as being a demonstration of some Thatcher-like 'strength of will and purpose' of being 'resolute' and 'one's own man' - invariably they are wrong. We lost out on prootion by the slenderest of margins last year (if that ball at Swindon had hit Lee Miller in the face instead of squarely on his forehead... ah well), the objective for Tinnion this year was to go TWO POINTS better than last years team. I sincerely believe we have the best players in this division, and I do not doubt Tinman's passion, commitment or ability BUT... The objective is to go two points better than last years team, not change evry aspect of the way we play. Last night at Barnsley (and last Saturday at Ashton) we had players who didn't know what they were supposed to be doing or where they were supposed to be doing it. We started out in a 4-3-3 but after a while the players started to drift towards their natural positions (old habits die hard when you are 25 and have been playing that way for 20 years), consequently, for most of the game our people were 8 or 9 feet out of position and Barnsley were able to pass the ball around them with ease. And before anyone comes back with a sentence that includes the words 'time' and 'gelling', Barnsley fielded 8 debutants last night, they had 'gelled' because they knew where they were supposed to be! In my experience, the very best managers learn very quickly from their mistakes, what works and what doesn't, the truly excellent managers hold their hands up and say "I was wrong - let's do this instead" Come on Tins time to show how good you REALLY are. ← I agree with every word of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc seattle Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 nicely said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elhombrecito Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 The problem with good posts like that is that they don't get the replies they deserve due to people having nothing to add to the subject. This is no exception. Great post mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Back to the top so people can the the sodding thing..............read, and inwardly digest folks............ Accurate, and to the point..........Tinman knockers, please read!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 I can go along with all of that. One of the things that annoyed me about Wilson was the way his team selection revolved around picking his best 11 players and then shoe-horning them into 4-4-2. Tinnion appears to be doing the same with his 4-3-3. If I were playing 4-3-3, I can't really see a place for Heffernan, but he's a new signing so he's having to be fitted in. Personally, I would drop him and play Miller with Anyinsah on his left and Roberts on his right. Just behind him I would have Goodfellow, or possibly Lita, running through from midfield. I think this would have far more balance than the bizarre 2-strikers-and-1-winger ploy we seem to have been using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fct Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Agreed; 4-3-3 is simply a naive formation that may work on the subbuteo pitch but in reality it has no place in the modern game, no matter how much one may like to see attacking football. The British game is built on 4-4-2 and that's the system that works best. To change it to 4-3-3 weakens the midfield and allows opposition midfielders space to create chances, at the same time reducing the effectiveness of our own. Tinnion must realise his great strategy has no future and return to tried and trusted formations thus allowing his new team to settle in sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 I do think that 4-3-3 can work, but it will take more than just getting 11 blokes to stand in that pattern. A good 4-3-3 should be a 4-5-1 when we're defending, and a 4-2-4, or even 2-4-4 when we're attacking. The key things that are needed are flexibility, hard work, and balance. We seem to be lacking those at the moment. If we're going to have 3 up front, there should be a big lad in the middle, supported by 2 wingers. The second striker should be a midfielder running through. What we've ended up with, though, is a sort of 4-4-2 with 3 central midfielders, a right winger and a big gaping hole down the left. I don't think there are many people who would argue in favour of that formation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 So,Southport Red,what you are saying is that you can't beat the system! (4-4-2?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 But that doesnt tell the whole story, because (unfortunately for Tinman) some of the changes were forced upon him... If we still had Aaron Brown at the club I think we WOULD have started the season with 442. But with Mickey Bell and Marc Goodfellow out and Joe Anyinsah very inexperienced, he really had no options down the left. (unless you want to start with Woodman as a left-winger again ?) Surely, good managers also have to get the best out of the resources available ? And if that means making changes then so be it. Of course we COULD haves started the season with 532, but I bet we'd still have people on here complaining that it 'wasn't british'. And if we really didn't want to change much from last season, why did we sack Wilson ? I thought everyone here was agreed that we needed to be more attacking and less predictable ? I think we should give credit to Tinman for trying to improve things rather than moan when it doesn't work straight away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 But that doesnt tell the whole story, because (unfortunately for Tinman) some of the changes were forced upon him... If we still had Aaron Brown at the club I think we WOULD have started the season with 442. But with Mickey Bell and Marc Goodfellow out and Joe Anyinsah very inexperienced, he really had no options down the left. (unless you want to start with Woodman as a left-winger again ?) Surely, good managers also have to get the best out of the resources available ? And if that means making changes then so be it. Of course we COULD haves started the season with 532, but I bet we'd still have people on here complaining that it 'wasn't british'. And if we really didn't want to change much from last season, why did we sack Wilson ? I thought everyone here was agreed that we needed to be more attacking and less predictable ? I think we should give credit to Tinman for trying to improve things rather than moan when it doesn't work straight away. ← I think the majority applaud Tinnion, for the fresh approach to the season. The promise of attcking football, both at home & away.3 attackers on the bench etc etc. I think Tinnion made it clear from his first press conference that he favoured the 3-5-2 formation. The worry for me was that we hit a p1$$ poor Clevedon team 9-1 & we then looked to favour the 4-3-3 formation. As for the DW change, well much was to do with the insistance in defensive tactics rather than looking to take the game to teams. Have we gone too full circle & Tinnion wants total attack rather than a mix of tactics to 'win' games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTop Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Best post on this forum for a loooong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Great post Southport. Management consultant and living in Lancashire - boy you must have sinned in a previous life.... I think the problem with 433 is that it can work, but only when confidence is high, we're at home and we have the players to do it. Without wishing to insult professional footballers, they are a fragile and not terribly bright bunch (whoops, there I did insult them). I think Tins has possibly over-estimated the footballing intelligence of his squad, in particular the front three I'm afraid, and asked too much of them too early. Get a few wins under our belt using 442 (which lets face it, all British players learn from day one in the school under 10's) and then allow them to experiment within a game for short bursts. I'm also not sure I agree with Richie, in that to go full circle, we'd have to be back where we started and thankfully, I don't see a Tommy/Burnell type holding midfield two. Probably naive, but as Southport will testify, us office manager-types think we can do it all sitting on our arses and looking at screens........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Gows' Tash Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Not like a management consultant to offer free advice ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southport Red Posted August 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Great post Southport. Management consultant and living in Lancashire - boy you must have sinned in a previous life.... ← LANCASHIRE??? I wish!! They call it Meeeeeezeyside now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 LANCASHIRE??? I wish!! They call it Meeeeeezeyside now ← Has the tide come in yet this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 FANTASTIC POST!! Next manager in the offing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southport Red Posted August 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Has the tide come in yet this year? ← Tide doesn't come in EVERY year Niall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted August 12, 2004 Report Share Posted August 12, 2004 Back to the top.....read and think..................... I thank you.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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