Fans will accept losses…..

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

That Derby 4:1 might've been the best of the lot. Team were applauded off at half-time, losing 0:1! It was a brilliant three to four months that sadly didn't last.

That Derby 4:1 might've been the best of the lot. Team were applauded off at half-time, losing 0:1! It was a brilliant three to four months that sadly didn't last.

I did go to that one…remember it well.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, firstdivision said:

The best football since we returned to the Championship came in Sept-Dec 2017 under LJ when we  shot up the league and reached the s-f of the LC. We scored goals and, here's the difference, stopped the opposition scoring.

One night stand outs: 2-0 at Fulham on 31 October. Our football in the first-half was superb. And we didn't give goals away. We also had a goal incorrectly ruled out for offside.

Another moment that stands out: Jamie Paterson's stunning goal at Sheffield United. People focus on the shot, but the build-up was superb as well. We played superbly at Ipswich in that spell as well. We won at Sunderland. And we beat Manchester United with a couple of excellent  goals. We also came from a goal down to bear Derby 4-1. Amazing how the memory can fade.

That period split into two phases really, tactically speaking and control wise IMO. I'd even include parts of August in it ie Watford away, Barnsley way half in particular at home and Plymouth although Cup v a lower side it was an enjoyable night...played well in defeat ay Birmingham too, Only really Brentford away where we were badly outplayed, made to look second best- drew but lucky to do so.

Anyway yeah.

Phase 1

More of  a 4-4-2 at times, 4-4-1--1 with Bryan at LB and Paterson out on the left. Orthodox RB in Pisano- there w343 differences and while we created quite a lot it had limitations- Leeds at home a good example, Preston at home too although we had more ball and chances there iirc especially 2ns half. Otoh Derby at home, Crystal Palace at home another 4-1, 3-3 at Wolves was great. Hull away 2 down to 3-2 up.

Fulham away was interesting speaking tactically as I believe it had more in common with Phase 2 than Phase 1. Whereas technically timeframe wise it fell into Phase 1. Edit: Just checked- Magnússon for Pisano due to a relatively early injury and that was a lot more like Phase 2 thereafter..

Phase 2

This was when all of the injuries kicked in, perhaps it started at Hull away 2nd half comeback but this encompassed some subtle but important changes.

1) Wright to RB

2) Magnússon to LB

3) As a result Bryan pushes up to LM or similar

4) Paterson central

5) Means Reid becomes the main man up top.

Thought perhaps less exciting as such, less high scoring but more controlled got sure, with some excellent football as part of it. We no longer had to worry about overloads in midfield so much and some of the displays weree excellent. I think it ran until Man City at home, also very dominant early on v QPR in the game following the Man City 2nd leg until the ref card, was seldom seen thereafter.

Bringing Diedhiou back in, using Kent- the philosophy changed significantly.  We saw elements of it ie Sunderland at home 1st half, Leeds away 1st half, Sheffield Wednesday at home probably the final time albeit there were some different personnel. Bolton away and Norwich at home had elements and the same shape and intent respectively albeit we lost.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[2015]

8 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Disagree totally. It was by accident with no plan, and it fell apart, because there was no plan. This is very different, and is an approach that is being passed down through to the academy. LJ played pragmatic, and most often boring football. It had some success, but was not the best football to watch, and failed every year. It is by far the best we have played in the Championship, though maybe not yet, with the final results. When we get in the playoffs, and we will, it will cement that position. With a wage bill halved and no transfer budget. 

I totally agree. He fell upon Reid being a striker as we had no strikers in pre season. It worked. Diedhiou got injured in October? That was when we played our best football, when he was injured, because we were forced to play without a target man.
When he came back from injury LJ reverted to what he wanted, pragmatism and boring football, imo. I will never forget the 1-0 hammering at home to Brentford in the April of that season, they played us off the park, brilliant to watch from them. 
I hope we end up being a Brentford in style and not an end of season 17/18 City.

[firstdivision]

3 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Disagree totally. It was by accident with no plan, and it fell apart, because there was no plan. This is very different, and is an approach that is being passed down through to the academy. LJ played pragmatic, and most often boring football. It had some success, but was not the best football to watch, and failed every year. It is by far the best we have played in the Championship, though maybe not yet, with the final results. When we get in the playoffs, and we will, it will cement that position. With a wage bill halved and no transfer budget. 

You’re so right. We were pretty ordinary as we went second in the league and reached the semi-final of the League Cup. The night at Fulham must have been a mirage. 

[BUTOR]

I remember Richard Gould was asked last season ‘what type of identity do you want Bristol City to have?’ and his answer was along the lines of ‘energetic, high pressing attacking football’. At the time we were exactly the opposite and his comments were sniggered at. I’m unsure if we’ve carefully curated this style from top down or it has come as a matter of playing to strengths in the squad but it really feels like the start of a new era at City, something that is hugely pleasing and entertaining to supporters but also a torch that can be carried through managers.

The start of ‘The Bristol City’ way, as Lee Johnson would put it. 

[Cityboy1954]

Says it All when you have Norwich fans biting their nails with ten minutes to go much improved just that hard nasty centre back to sort it 

[One Team]

11 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

…….if they can see the lads putting in a shift and the management going about the game the right way. We appear to have both right now and that is the result of 18 months or so hard work from Nige, his staff and players alike.

We now have a team that might be frustrating but is certainly worth getting off your arse and watching. I was as pissed off as anyone at full time seeing us lose that last night but cast your mind back to the majority of the last 3-4 years and what we have been served up has been shocking. How can you get annoyed when you see what we served up last night?

We have youngsters like Scott, Conway and Semenyo who fans of other clubs look at and think “they can play” but we also have a centre half who is Franz Beckenbauer one minute and Frank Spencer the next. Boring it ain’t.

To see a team go away from home to a club given every advantage by parachute payments and take the game to them, bollocks to sitting back, and outplay them for long periods with some lovely passing football  is something we just haven’t seen since Cotterill steamrollered League 1.

If you can’t enjoy our approach and way of playing now you need to find a different sport to watch. Frustrating yes, entertaining yes and long may it continue.

Post of the month for me!

Absolutely spot on. Going into work this morning it felt like we’d won the game it was so positive and entertaining. 

[Ian M]

I feel like this management team is better than all the others since I have supported City at improving the team on the training field. If we can continue that progression (whilst also getting some of our most difficult games out of the way such as Norwich and Burnley away) I will not be surprised to see us really dominate the second half of the season.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Agree with most of this post but dominate I dunno.

Let's not forget the sort of sides we are up against, the number of solid sides in this division- 5 clubs with Parachute Payments.

We still have room for growth without doubt and that excites me- both age wise and when personnel return ie Kalas to compete and perhaps step in and perhaps when Semenyo is fully fit and sharp he starts?

What does our optimum starting XI cost atm? £15m tops? The return of Kalas may push it to £20m or so but there are individual players alone in this League whose fees were greater.

I see many good signs though. 

[Fuber]

12 hours ago, firstdivision said:

The best football since we returned to the Championship came in Sept-Dec 2017 under LJ when we  shot up the league and reached the s-f of the LC. We scored goals and, here's the difference, stopped the opposition scoring.

One night stand outs: 2-0 at Fulham on 31 October. Our football in the first-half was superb. And we didn't give goals away. We also had a goal incorrectly ruled out for offside.

Another moment that stands out: Jamie Paterson's stunning goal at Sheffield United. People focus on the shot, but the build-up was superb as well. We played superbly at Ipswich in that spell as well. We won at Sunderland. And we beat Manchester United with a couple of excellent  goals. We also came from a goal down to bear Derby 4-1. Amazing how the memory can fade.

We are quite fun to watch but I hate being 'patted on the head' by Norwich fans. And we lost. We gave them stupid goals. That is not good football. 

Also, when the game had one goal in it last night, we didn't look like scoring. Norwich sat back and tried to hit us on the break. They played quite pragmatically - and successfully. 

Even during that spell unde LJ, especially that Sheff Utd game, I feel that breakdown is slightly rose tinted.

That Sheff Utd game for example, we were pretty toothless before Pato's goal, and struggled went they went down to ten men.

Same applied to the Cardiff win in the same period, labouring in open play to create opening at time, scoring from a Magnússon long throw before Bogle(?) Got sent off. A mixture of cataclysmic defending, poor ball retention and urgency almost saw Cardiff equalise.

I'd argue this period under Pearson, as each game passes, makes me think we're much more consistent with regards to a playstyle than we ever were under LJ when in open play. Add into that we clearly are playing to a system which was never settled under LJ for a prolonged period, due to rotation, injuries, and selection changes. On balance, they're equal.

The only thing stopping this this being ahead of the LJ period mentioned, is individual errors, for me, but that's just my opinion.

[firstdivision]

7 hours ago, Fuber said:

Even during that spell unde LJ, especially that Sheff Utd game, I feel that breakdown is slightly rose tinted.

That Sheff Utd game for example, we were pretty toothless before Pato's goal, and struggled went they went down to ten men.

Same applied to the Cardiff win in the same period, labouring in open play to create opening at time, scoring from a Magnússon long throw before Bogle(?) Got sent off. A mixture of cataclysmic defending, poor ball retention and urgency almost saw Cardiff equalise.

I'd argue this period under Pearson, as each game passes, makes me think we're much more consistent with regards to a playstyle than we ever were under LJ when in open play. Add into that we clearly are playing to a system which was never settled under LJ for a prolonged period, due to rotation, injuries, and selection changes. On balance, they're equal.

The only thing stopping this this being ahead of the LJ period mentioned, is individual errors, for me, but that's just my opinion.

Do you not think we’ve laboured to beat sides this season? Wigan? Blackpool? Huddersfield? (And the games we’ve actually lost). 
It’s a pointless debate really because fans are in their bunkers (especially when it comes to LJ’s time), but I would point out that our record in the period I mentioned was PL29 W18 D8 L3 (start of season to Wolves defeat). Playing good football is about resolute defending as well as knocking the ball around. I’d also come back to my point that, for all our pretty football at Norwich, we didn’t look like scoring when there was one goal in the game and, er,  we lost. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by firstdivision

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, firstdivision said:

Playing good football is about resolute defending as well as knocking the ball around.

Absolutely.

I get a bit of a buzz over a very solid defensive performance.  Most fans don’t, and equate “excitement” to goal-mouth action ONLY in the opposition box.  That was my earlier point, under LJ there was a run on games within that period where I thought we we quite dull from an attacking point, but I loved our solidity, our way of suffocating our opponents.  And we ground out goals to win games.

They were deserved win in my eyes too.

Just digressing….we actually defended as a team pretty darned well on Wednesday.  They had very few attacks, even less of any note.  We gifted them their goals, although having watched their third back, Vyner can’t do too much about it.  Ball is swinging away, he can’t get in front of Sargent.  I give credit to the striker rather than blame Vyner.  Our structure without the ball was very decent, hence why we were able to win it back quickly and then begin our own attacks.

If this is the “new norm” we are gonna have a decent season.

We will learn more tomorrow.

[cidered abroad]

14 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

I remember Richard Gould was asked last season ‘what type of identity do you want Bristol City to have?’ and his answer was along the lines of ‘energetic, high pressing attacking football’. At the time we were exactly the opposite and his comments were sniggered at. I’m unsure if we’ve carefully curated this style from top down or it has come as a matter of playing to strengths in the squad but it really feels like the start of a new era at City, something that is hugely pleasing and entertaining to supporters but also a torch that can be carried through managers.

The start of ‘The Bristol City’ way, as LJ would put it.

 

as Nigel Pearson would put it!

[spudski]

53 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Absolutely.

I get a bit of a buzz over a very solid defensive performance.  Most fans don’t, and equate “excitement” to goal-mouth action ONLY in the opposition box.  That was my earlier point, under LJ there was a run on games within that period where I thought we we quite dull from an attacking point, but I loved our solidity, our way of suffocating our opponents.  And we ground out goals to win games.

They were deserved win in my eyes too.

Just digressing….we actually defended as a team pretty darned well on Wednesday.  They had very few attacks, even less of any note.  We gifted them their goals, although having watched their third back, Vyner can’t do too much about it.  Ball is swinging away, he can’t get in front of Sargent.  I give credit to the striker rather than blame Vyner.  Our structure without the ball was very decent, hence why we were able to win it back quickly and then begin our own attacks.

If this is the “new norm” we are gonna have a decent season.

We will learn more tomorrow.

Really Dave? Re the third goal.

Have you watched the repeats of the corner? Watch the third repeat from the camera behind the goal.

Vyner did what he does so often...didn't concentrate on his man fully.

He's distracted momentarily by something towards the penalty area. Whilst looking, his position goes behind Sargent, not goal side as he should be, ball comes in, he's out of position, try's to recover, but it's too late.

It's fine margins, but if you switch off at this level and get distracted away from your job, then these things happen. 

It's not the first time...it's his Achilles heal.

You can clearly see what I've said on here...

 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Really Dave? Re the third goal.

Have you watched the repeats of the corner? Watch the third repeat from the camera behind the goal.

Vyner did what he does so often...didn't concentrate on his man fully.

He's distracted momentarily by something towards the penalty area. Whilst looking, his position goes behind Sargent, not goal side as he should be, ball comes in, he's out of position, try's to recover, but it's too late.

It's fine margins, but if you switch off at this level and get distracted away from your job, then these things happen. 

It's not the first time...it's his Achilles heal.

You can clearly see what I've said on here...

 

Yep, really.  He’s trying to get a better view, he’s not switched off…just bodies in front of him.  You’ve got to be able to try to see the flight of the ball too.  You can’t just watch the man…that’s bonkers, he has to ball-check too.

Of course it’s fine margins, but he hasn’t lost his man as many are suggesting…it’s just a ball swinging away he can’t win…and I prefer to give credit to the taker and Sargent.

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, really.  He’s trying to get a better view, he’s not switched off…just bodies in front of him.  You’ve got to be able to try to see the flight of the ball too.  You can’t just watch the man…that’s bonkers, he has to ball-check too.

Of course it’s fine margins, but he hasn’t lost his man as many are suggesting…it’s just a ball swinging away he can’t win…and I prefer to give credit to the taker and Sargent.

We can agree to disagree on that one then

No one is blocking his view. He's gone completely wrong side of his man, then tried to recover.

Even if he was trying to get a better view, you don't go wrong side...you drop off a little, goal side. But I don't think he's doing that as players in front of him are yards away.

He could have won that ball easily if he was goalside. Sargent could see the ball, no reason why Vyner couldn't if he was correctly positioned. He went behind Sargent and blocked his own view.

All good though...agree to disagree.

 

[firstdivision]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Absolutely.

I get a bit of a buzz over a very solid defensive performance.  Most fans don’t, and equate “excitement” to goal-mouth action ONLY in the opposition box.  That was my earlier point, under LJ there was a run on games within that period where I thought we we quite dull from an attacking point, but I loved our solidity, our way of suffocating our opponents.  And we ground out goals to win games.

They were deserved win in my eyes too.

Just digressing….we actually defended as a team pretty darned well on Wednesday.  They had very few attacks, even less of any note.  We gifted them their goals, although having watched their third back, Vyner can’t do too much about it.  Ball is swinging away, he can’t get in front of Sargent.  I give credit to the striker rather than blame Vyner.  Our structure without the ball was very decent, hence why we were able to win it back quickly and then begin our own attacks.

If this is the “new norm” we are gonna have a decent season.

We will learn more tomorrow.

We will indeed. I always thought we were more likely to get something from Norwich than Burnley because of the utterly ridiculous configuration of matches this week. Wonder if we’ll struggle to find the same tempo tomorrow. We looked very tired by the end on Wednesday. 

I would have been fascinated to see how the Norwich game would’ve worked out if we hadn’t given them two goals at the start. It skewed a potentially interesting tactical game. They would have given us more space, I’m sure. (Probably ended 5-4 or 3-5. Or something ridiculous.)

Edited September 16, 2022 by firstdivision

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, firstdivision said:

We will indeed. I always thought we were more likely to get something from Norwich than Burnley because of the utterly ridiculous configuration of matches this week. Wonder if we’ll struggle to find the same tempo tomorrow. We looked very tired by the end on Wednesday. 

I would have been fascinated to see how the Norwich game would’ve worked out if we hadn’t given them two goals at the start. It skewed a potentially interesting tactical game. They would have given us more space, I’m sure. (Probably ended 5-4 or 3-5. Or something ridiculous.)

Or had Conway scored at the start, we could have countered on them a bit and may not have collectively been so high for their 2nd goal in particular. I still think that from halfway it was too easy even including the error by Naismith.

That's not knocking Conway at all but a bit of a what if moment.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just on the 2017 Sheffield United away game, iirc they hit the woodwork 3-4 times that night.

Could have been out of sight long before Paterson's  Flint's late winner even though they had a man sent off. It was an enjoyable if crazy game.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[firstdivision]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Just on the 2017 Sheffield United away game, iirc they hit the woodwork 3-4 times that night.

Could have been out of sight long before Paterson's  Flint's late winner even though they had a man sent off. It was an enjoyable if crazy game.

My point, Mr P, though was about the quality of the Pato goal. Beautiful passing movement set up Pato's glorious shot. We were capable of playing some decent football, even under LJ 

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, firstdivision said:

My point, Mr P, though was about the quality of the Pato goal. Beautiful passing movement set up Pato's glorious shot. We were capable of playing some decent football, even under LJ 

It was good, agreed- I was a few drinks in but I recall the spectacular finish more but we were good for a few months, without doubt. Our numbers possession wise seemed to be on the rise too- 2 months unbeaten and then the crazy stat of what 3 losses in half a season across all competitions, that system in the 2nd phase we combined fluidity and security quite well IMO.

[Numero Uno]

7 hours ago, firstdivision said:

Do you not think we’ve laboured to beat sides this season? Wigan? Blackpool? Huddersfield? (And the games we’ve actually lost). 
It’s a pointless debate really because fans are in their bunkers (especially when it comes to LJ’s time), but I would point out that our record in the period I mentioned was PL29 W18 D8 L3 (start of season to Wolves defeat). Playing good football is about resolute defending as well as knocking the ball around. I’d also come back to my point that, for all our pretty football at Norwich, we didn’t look like scoring when there was one goal in the game and, er,  we lost. 

I don't think many people are saying we are the finished article by any stretch and I can agree with your view of how we played for "a spell" under Johnson. It is a fact though that it is a number of YEARS since our side has last played any football that we, as fans, can get excited about. As I said originally, we are as frustrating as hell at times (the defending and throwing away late points) BUT I'm not going to throw my toys out over that when I compare what we are attempting to do right now against the last 3-4 seasons of dirge.

From the post-match comments, you just know that Norwich fans, management and players alike thought they were in for a pretty comfortable evening on Wednesday and it didn't materialise. Smith described us as the "bravest" side to go there so far and I realise that is also a way of saying "I wouldn't do that" but looking at our squad it is simply a case of Nige being pragmatic. The next step is to retain the bravery and reduce the errors. If (big word) that happens then we could have a very good season. 

To those (I think it was one person) who say "I would rather a diabolical 1-0 win over a 3-3 draw" I have a money saving tip......buy yourself a ******* newspaper on a Sunday instead. and save yourself the bother of having to sit through it. It's meant to be enjoyment not endurance.

[firstdivision]

32 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I don't think many people are saying we are the finished article by any stretch and I can agree with your view of how we played for "a spell" under Johnson. It is a fact though that it is a number of YEARS since our side has last played any football that we, as fans, can get excited about. As I said originally, we are as frustrating as hell at times (the defending and throwing away late points) BUT I'm not going to throw my toys out over that when I compare what we are attempting to do right now against the last 3-4 seasons of dirge.

From the post-match comments, you just know that Norwich fans, management and players alike thought they were in for a pretty comfortable evening on Wednesday and it didn't materialise. Smith described us as the "bravest" side to go there so far and I realise that is also a way of saying "I wouldn't do that" but looking at our squad it is simply a case of Nige being pragmatic. The next step is to retain the bravery and reduce the errors. If (big word) that happens then we could have a very good season. 

To those (I think it was one person) who say "I would rather a diabolical 1-0 win over a 3-3 draw" I have a money saving tip......buy yourself a ******* newspaper on a Sunday instead. and save yourself the bother of having to sit through it. It's meant to be enjoyment not endurance.

I don't disagree with much of that, although any successful side in our league needs a few 1-0s and, pedantically speaking, 3-3 every week could see us relegated (46pts).

My comments about that remarkable spell under LJ in 17-18 were merely in response to someone else's comment that 'we are playing the best football since we returned to the championship by some distance now,' which I thought was a bit of a stretch (not least because the current sample size is relatively small and LJ's sample size was 29 games). I don't think we played particularly well against Hull, Wigan, Sunderland, Blackpool or Huddersfield. And for me, the performance at Blackburn was better than the one at Norwich. 

Let the fun continue (with a few 1-0 wins interspersed) and let's see where we are at Christmas. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by firstdivision

[MarcusX]

On 15/09/2022 at 14:22, Steve Watts said:

I think a big difference this season is that for the first time in ages we get to the latter stages of the game trailing but I don't think anyone is thinking "well this is over". 

I don't think it's self congratulatory to say how well we played.  This was a team that came down from the Prem last year with the budgets that come with that and we dominated them for a large majority of the match.  That shows how much this side has progressed. Being pleased with the performance in spite of the loss is just an acknowledgement of what we're coming out of.  We played well and if not for the defensive frailties could've put the pre-season title favourites to the sword on their own patch.

Reasons to be cheerful aplenty right now.

That game was over after 20 mins at 2-0 in any of the last 4/5 seasons, as you say it doesn’t feel like that any more

[steviestevieneville]

On 15/09/2022 at 07:59, Numero Uno said:

…….if they can see the lads putting in a shift and the management going about the game the right way. We appear to have both right now and that is the result of 18 months or so hard work from Nige, his staff and players alike.

We now have a team that might be frustrating but is certainly worth getting off your arse and watching. I was as pissed off as anyone at full time seeing us lose that last night but cast your mind back to the majority of the last 3-4 years and what we have been served up has been shocking. How can you get annoyed when you see what we served up last night?

We have youngsters like Scott, Conway and Semenyo who fans of other clubs look at and think “they can play” but we also have a centre half who is Franz Beckenbauer one minute and Frank Spencer the next. Boring it ain’t.

To see a team go away from home to a club given every advantage by parachute payments and take the game to them, bollocks to sitting back, and outplay them for long periods with some lovely passing football  is something we just haven’t seen since Cotterill steamrollered League 1.

If you can’t enjoy our approach and way of playing now you need to find a different sport to watch. Frustrating yes, entertaining yes and long may it continue.

Totally agree, I was pissed off & we do need to sort out the mistakes because we have genuine quality . It’s nice to see the conspiracy theorists of nige losing the dressing room & bullying players have shut up . 
18 months ago we were celebrating a shot on target or a corner. We’re averaging two goals a game now & the footballs fantastic. Really looking forward to the game today . 

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Totally agree, I was pissed off & we do need to sort out the mistakes because we have genuine quality . It’s nice to see the conspiracy theorists of nige losing the dressing room & bullying players have shut up . 
18 months ago we were celebrating a shot on target or a corner. We’re averaging two goals a game now & the footballs fantastic. Really looking forward to the game today . 

 

[SBB]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Still doing it properly, Benjamin, still doing it. 

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 

I saw this as well Dave . Did make me smile . 

[Ian M]

You have City, Leicester City and Watford fans all praising Nige on that Twitter thread. How many times do sacked managers still get praised by their fanbases. We have a gem in Nige.