All change please

[Mr X]

Looking at their nationalities, I didn't know that Dasilva could play for Wales. He must have turned down approaches from them in the past given some of the players in their squads.

[Mr Hankey]

11 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

I stopped reading at Massengo 

One of the most over rated players I’ve ever seen in a City shirt. He brings very little or anything to the team

Massengo is just as weak in the center of the pitch as he was when he joined us over 3 years ago. Expect him to go back to France at a Angers/Nantes lower Ligue 1 type club.

[redsquirrel]

24 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

I stopped reading at Massengo 

One of the most over rated players I’ve ever seen in a City shirt. He brings very little or anything to the team

i find it hard to believe he still hasnt hit the target with a goal yet. 

[firstdivision]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Think we are in a difficult position with having players on wages too high for the current climate, and no player is realistically gonna take a pay cut until they really have to…which in some cases will be next summer.  And they’ll take their chances on which club will be the best fit for them - which £££s being a big factor.

So, we are left in an uncertain position re squad, and can’t really plan.  It’s a ball ache.

If we just assume for the mo’, Scott and Semenyo stay for another season, we are in for another summer of scrimping in the market, maybe some low value fees for lower-waged players…but it doesn’t get you very excited does it?

I think you are right, there are several players where you really think they are much of a muchness with potential players we could bring in.  Nor is it greatly balanced, even ages are young and old, little in between. I wonder if that is why Nige is talking about how important recruitment is.

Its just one big compromise at the mo….not sure I see that changing either!

Once we start to lose the players that we brought in on decent money from decent clubs - when we were able to - then we will most likely be fishing for players at a lower grade (see Tanner, Atkinson, Sykes and Wilson) out of financial necessity. As you say, if the recruitment isn’t spot on and doesn’t pick up a couple of hat rabbits (eg someone like Albert), we could be in big trouble. And that’s if we’re not already in L1, which I wouldn’t rule out. 

Btw, I noticed that Birmingham had five loan players in their starting line-up yesterday. If he’s still here, NP might have to go there a bit to find some quality next summer. I know he’s said he’s open to a loan now, which is sensible and pragmatic. I don’t particularly like having loads of them, and it will be interesting to see how they serve Birmingham as the season goes on, but sometimes you have to go there. 

[Andy082005]

29 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

i find it hard to believe he still hasnt hit the target with a goal yet. 

I couldn’t believe it when I seen he has made over 100 appearances 

I can remember about 5 of them 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

I stopped reading at Massengo 

One of the most over rated players I’ve ever seen in a City shirt. He brings very little or anything to the team

The system we play I don't think suits us for midfield control and Massengo is a part of that.

Massengo is not bad technically and has energy. However energy in a 2 leaves gaps, can't think of a solution right now but 2 v 3 in central areas is a downside risk, if Weimann drops deeper to compensate e.g. then we lose some threat further up the pitch. I think Massengo could flourish in a more technical and controlling side- not a goal scorer though no.

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The system we play I don't think suits us for midfield control and Massengo is a part of that.

Massengo is not bad technically and has energy. However energy in a 2 leaves gaps, can't think of a solution right now but 2 v 3 in central areas is a downside risk, if Weimann drops deeper to compensate e.g. then we lose some threat further up the pitch. I think Massengo could flourish in a more technical and controlling side- not a goal scorer though no.

Energy does not leave gaps.  Not having enough footballing intelligence does.  That's why a midfield 2 of James and Scott is miles better than a 2 of Williams and Massengo.  The one thing that has become crystal clear this season to me is that James and Scott are far and away our best midfield partnership.  You can't get away with running around like a headless chicken at this level.

[Galley is our king]

11 hours ago, Harry said:

Losing all those players (bar Semenyo) next summer will probably mean about £5.5m-£6m off the wage bill. 

Offloading Kalas, HNM, Bentley, Dasilva, Wells, Martin & Klose would be 7 out. 
With the money saved, we could easily replace them with 4-5 signings + 2-3 season loans to see us through next season, whereupon the financials will be better. 
 

But, you gotta start that recruitment process now. Get ahead of the curve. Know what’s leaving, know what your system is for next season, know what you need to bring in, start speaking to the agents of other out of contract players, start speaking to the prem clubs about loans, start speaking to the league one clubs and agents about the top young players in that league.  It all needs to be happening right now, setting it all up for next summer. 
 

Looks easy eh? But how many players will have made up their minds yet? How many will wait until the last minute, play their cards close to their chests? No doubt have agents looking for better deals?

I'm definitely with you in principle, just not sure how practical it is both in and out transfers.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Energy does not leave gaps.  Not having enough footballing intelligence does.  That's why a midfield 2 of James and Scott is miles better than a 2 of Williams and Massengo.  The one thing that has become crystal clear this season to me is that James and Scott are far and away our best midfield partnership.  You can't get away with running around like a headless chicken at this level.

I see your point but I'm still uncertain about the long term solution.

James and Scott feels like our best balanced pair without doubt, but that energy or your suggestion that it is more like running around like a headless chicken is definitely more exposed in a two, more easily absorbed in a 3.

James and Scott with one of Williams or Massengo alongside could be interesting IMO but that would necessitate changes elsewhere. I have certain tactical biases/blindspots granted.

James in particular is a big miss though, his calm, experience and organisational skills, well we have nobody comparable age and experience wise in CM.

[pillred]

2 hours ago, redsquirrel said:

i find it hard to believe he still hasnt hit the target with a goal yet. 

I don't, not sure how many times he has actually even tried to score a goal had such high hopes for him though as usual he will probably go somewhere else and be a completely different player.

[Bristol Oil Services]

10 hours ago, The Bard said:

Massengo, Martin, Vyner Wells, Kalas, Dasilva, Bentley, Klose. 8 squad members.  Probably getting approximately £100k a week between them.  Plus their fees aren't far off the same again.

That will release something in the region of £180k a week next season.  5 solid Championship players plus 3 League 1 players would be possible and we'd save a load of money.  We just have to be smart.  We'd also be able to offer Semenyo a deal. If he doesn't take it then sell.   

My concern is that we don't fall off a cliff as it is a tough Championship this season.  Likes of Kalas and Klose need to be back playing.

 

This is what we find so bleedin' difficult though, being smart. We are forever being out-smarted not by parachute minted clubs but by the likes of blinking Preston and Millwall. And now Luton. Even in L1 we far too often fail to be very smart.

When Gary Collier left in '79 we needed to be smart, smarter than ever but sadly smart we were not. As a club we are historically and perennially not very football bright with just a very few exceptions (and even then it soon goes tits up and we languish in the lower leagues for far too long).

[Davefevs]

36 minutes ago, The Bard said:

Energy does not leave gaps.  Not having enough footballing intelligence does.  That's why a midfield 2 of James and Scott is miles better than a 2 of Williams and Massengo.  The one thing that has become crystal clear this season to me is that James and Scott are far and away our best midfield partnership.  You can't get away with running around like a headless chicken at this level.

That certainly appears to be the case doesn’t it?

I thought James and Williams looked good together at the back-end of last season.

I think (until yesterday) Scott and Massengo did well together, despite their lack of years.

But I guess you draw the conclusion that the two players in bold are partly the reason.

[LondonBristolian]

My view on a lot of these players is fluctuating and I think it's hard to decide who you'd keep when the club is in a spell of poor form. 

As it stands I'd obviously want to extend Semenyo whilst Massengo is a moot discussion unless he suddenly wants to sign.

Bentley, Kalas, Dasilva and Wells would all be losses, to one extent or other, but all are likely on pay that isn't what we'd offer now and we may have to release all four and find better value for money whilst Martin and Klose are neither starting not getting younger so I imagine they may get released. O'Leary's chance has probably come and gone and I think the fairest thing for him - as well as us - is to let him go and find first team football in League One or Two. I can't honesty judge Wiles-Richards but he's young and has time to develop, if the club think he can do that.

The one where I might disagree with other people is Zak Vyner. We're short on centre-backs and might release Kalas and Klose, and I think - in a summer where we are rebuilding elsewhere - there is a pragmatic decision to be made on whether we'd find a back-up right sided centre back  who was better without spending budget we'd need to spend replacing other players who've left. I don't see him as a first team starter with everyone fit but I do feel he could be playing his way towards either his option being taken up or another year negotiated on a little less money, but still potentially more than he might get elsewhere. 

[JoeAman08]

11 hours ago, Harry said:

Well, I certainly wasn’t one who said we were “building something special”. I’m still and always have been of the opinion that we need to avoid the drop this season. 
We have 3 players on whom to build something (AS, AS & TC). The 8 senior pro’s listed above certainly don’t form any part of my ideal squad moving forward. 

Yep. And I personally have been saying this was the go for it season because of the contract situations and keeping scott and semenyo. It wasn’t a building something special season. Even if we can be shrewd next season there will be a lot of players gone and new players in. Which there is usually a bedding in period then.
 

So to be struggling how we are at the minute is a worry as in my view should be the most successful season. Two seasons before rough and the season after a lot of change most likely so likely not a season of note.
 

Next summer is the true clean slate and it is going into NP last season on his current deal. Not sure we have synced things as well as we could. 

[maxjak]

15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Think we are in a difficult position with having players on wages too high for the current climate, and no player is realistically gonna take a pay cut until they really have to…which in some cases will be next summer.  And they’ll take their chances on which club will be the best fit for them - which £££s being a big factor.

So, we are left in an uncertain position re squad, and can’t really plan.  It’s a ball ache.

If we just assume for the mo’, Scott and Semenyo stay for another season, we are in for another summer of scrimping in the market, maybe some low value fees for lower-waged players…but it doesn’t get you very excited does it?

I think you are right, there are several players where you really think they are much of a muchness with potential players we could bring in.  Nor is it greatly balanced, even ages are young and old, little in between. I wonder if that is why Nige is talking about how important recruitment is.

Its just one big compromise at the mo….not sure I see that changing either!

As much as i hate to say it.(and sincerely hope it does not happen).......but.if Scott and Semenyo have any ambition they will probably leave this S**t show?

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Next summer is the true clean slate and it is going into NP last season on his current deal. Not sure we have synced things as well as we could. 

I kinda hoped the summer just gone was gonna be “reset”.  I thought (at the end of last season) by October we’d know exactly the fate of all our players, e.g. Massengo, Kalas, Bentley etc, but as it stands us fans have no clue what we will go into the close season with.

And that’s after already having a cull ahead of last season.

I think it highlights more than ever how big a mess we were / are in.

Trying to reset / rebuild with a high cost base ain’t easy.  It appears players are happy to run their contracts for as long as possible…I don’t blame them either.  There will be a point when job security might start to influence.  But for players like Kalas and Massengo, they might well have suitors from abroad who might look at ore-contract options in January.  That won’t help us either.

I still think we are a middle eight side…as long as we keep the majority of the better players fit…which is a bit higher than where Harry was looking, but I do expect bumps in the road.  Just like our good run wasn’t a reason to get ahead of ourselves, I don’t think the current run is a reason to get so down either.

Its frustrating, but that’s where we are.