So, that second goal…

[nickolas]

46 minutes ago, Mad Cyril said:

We have two keepers who are chalk and cheese. One pinned to the line, the other not able to stay on his line. Though both are top drawer one on one.

Max saves a penalty today.... Not even a talking point.

As its irrelevant because that didnt save the game as he stayed on his line to save it. If he stayed near his line on the 2nd goal theres zero danger. 
Bajic will be in goal within the next 3 or 4 games in my opinion. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by nickolas

[Dredd]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

I do a bit of coaching, and I absolutely encourage my keeper to come whenever practical, but also tell them to be mindful of the game around them. What the issue here was not that Max came for the ball, but that he came for it when he could clearly see defenders had the situation under control.

I’d haul my under 11s keeper out for that decision. For a championship keeper it’s unforgivable.

I’m sure your defenders are taught to listen to a shout from the keeper too. 
We are playing for the win and the keeper having to ball in hand to distribute quickly is a far better position. 

[bexhill reds]

43 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Or

Kalas listens to the shout from the keeper, Max catches it and we have possession?

I don’t understand how Max gets the blame.  Yes it’s a long way to come but there isn’t a Millwall player even attempting to challenge him for the ball?! Therefore it’s a perfectly acceptable decision to come and collect, and he makes the call to make everyone is aware he’s doing so. Kalas is 100% to blame for that goal not Max. 

That’s a long way to come out into traffic when there are 3 defenders in the way, 6 yds further into the box then it’s not an unreasonable call, but that far out you’ve got to be certain that you are going to collect / punch it. An error of judgement I think, perhaps caused by little game time.

[maxjak]

So that's Bentley (Average)......then  O'Leary.(Average)*..........now step forward Mr Bajic, your turn?

[Sheltons Army]

29 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I’m 100% behind nige. However his interview after the game was strange . He said it wasn’t max fault & also said it was a positive mistake unlike (paraphrasing ) Birmingham . It’s like he’s dug Bentley out again & also backed himself into a corner. If Bentley was dropped for one bad game then surely has to drop max for his mistake . He’s made a rod for his own back there 

Agree 

I’m behind Pearson and have trust in him (still) but ai strongly disagreed with his comments about the goal

Absolutely no need for MOL to,come charging out there , people say about Bentley not dominating but MOL is even less so , then he makes a crazy decision , in anybody’s book

I agree with you Pearson’s comments were completely baffling , appearing to be sending a wider message about positivity in decisions and intent 

 

Personally , I don’t think MOL has it to be a keeper we need going forward and looking to improve

But Pearson , judging by his comments , clearly has no intention of changing him next time out 

 

[petehinton]

He shouldn’t have come for it, it’s so far out. If it finds its way to the goal from there, he’s abstained from blame. Nige clearly doesn’t rate Bentley anymore, but Max isn’t good enough and isn’t a step up. Be very surprised if Bajic isn’t in before the World Cup break 

[Atyeo's lift]

49 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Antoine?!?!??

My mistake - blame my advanced age and poor eyesight It was, of course, Kalas who took the ball away from Max's grasp - how anyone can see Max at fault there is beyond me

[Silvio Dante]

11 minutes ago, Dredd said:

I’m sure your defenders are taught to listen to a shout from the keeper too. 
We are playing for the win and the keeper having to ball in hand to distribute quickly is a far better position. 

They are, but they’re also told to take accountability. The fact this is even a discussion confirms it was a borderline call at best and I’d want my defenders to make sure first. My son is the one who is in goal and his opinion was that his specialised GK coach would call it the wrong decision.
 

IMO it was a shocking call, he saw his defence had control but still came. That’s awful play. And as for distribution I’d refer to prior points - his distribution hasn’t been great since he came in with a greater number of aimless big balls.

[IAmNick]

14 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Agree 

I’m behind Pearson and have trust in him (still) but ai strongly disagreed with his comments about the goal

Absolutely no need for MOL to,come charging out there , people say about Bentley not dominating but MOL is even less so , then he makes a crazy decision , in anybody’s book

I agree with you Pearson’s comments were completely baffling , appearing to be sending a wider message about positivity in decisions and intent 

 

Personally , I don’t think MOL has it to be a keeper we need going forward and looking to improve

But Pearson , judging by his comments , clearly has no intention of changing him next time out 

 

I kind of get what he means - I think he likes that even though it was probably the wrong decision, at least Max was proactive and made a decision. Maybe that's in contrast to Bentley (and some others) who are reactive instead.

He seems like the kind of manager who would prefer an incorrect proactive decision, to no decision at all (which ends up leaving us in the shit as a result). I think we have a lot of players in the second category sometimes - half dangling feet, not attacking 50/50s (or even 60/40s and 70/30s), not stepping up and taking ownership and imposing themselves on the game.

Edited October 15, 2022 by IAmNick

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, IAmNick said:

I kind of get what he means - I think he likes that even though it was probably the wrong decision, at least Max was proactive and made a decision. Maybe that's in contrast to Bentley (and some others) who are reactive instead.

He seems like the kind of manager who would prefer an incorrect proactive decision, to no decision at all (which ends up leaving us in the shit as a result).

Yes , I understand that Nick , but if that’s what O’Leary is going to do then be consistent and try and dominate the box through the game

He stayed on his line and flapped at crosses and then goes kamikaze when he didn’t need to

He’s clearly frustrated by people not being pro active , but that is not the answer !

[Better Red]

15 minutes ago, maxjak said:

So that's Bentley (Average)......then  O'Leary.(Average)*..........now step forward Mr Bajic, your turn?

Bentley is better than average.

Max is below average.

Picking a keeper from the two is very simple - pick the better keeper Bentley.

Dont blame Max he was just being Max.

Blame Pearson for trying prove a point.

He is wrong and no doubt will get it wrong again for at least the next 2 games.

When Max plays it normally is during a bad run. If Preston weren’t so bad he could have played 4 and lost 4 with him in goal I fully expect nothing at WBA or Reading then Bentley will be back.

We are in bad form and Preston was hiding the truth so I am not blaming results on max be he does not help.

Preston must be in with a shout of being relegated - they were the worst team I have seen this season and that is saying something and yet we still conceded with Max in goal.

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, RedRaw said:

WTF. “Therefore it’s a perfectly acceptable decision to come and collect”

He didn’t, yet you blame kalas! Dear oh dear 

He's very clearly called for it - the clip shows as much.

As a former keeper - I'd be very ****ing livid with Tomas on that one. There's no Millwall player near, Rather him catch it and build a phase of play rather than it be headed out and having to contend a second ball. I've said this before, but Kalas time and again both giving and receiving shouts is awful at communications. That was one of the reasons we signed Klose in the first place - who actually communicates. Let alone the fact it also meant Rob got partially wiped as well.

Its being towards the edge of area means nothing, he's not leaving the area whatsoever, its HIS area, he's completely in rights in make that call.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Fuber

[NcnsBcfc]

For me, you've got 3 players there who probably haven't found themselves in that situation alongside each other before.

Hence the lack of communication and understanding. No keeper though comes to the edge of the box in that situation. Whatever happens, you will either find yourself hopelessly out of position, or catch the ball; and drop outside of the box.

It's a low percentage, high risk strategy; that he just didn't need to make. All the players were equally shocked. There is no way, anybody expected the keeper to come out so far. Totally unnecessary in the context of the game.

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, Atyeo's lift said:

I can't see Max as being at fault for either goal - the first because he had no time to recover after stretching full length for a great save; and the second because Antoine headed the ball away just as he was about to catch it. As much as I love Antoine's football most if the time, he should be far more aware when defending.

 

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Antoine?!?!??

An easy mistake to make .

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, Fuber said:

He's very clearly called for it - the clip shows as much.

As a former keeper - I'd be very ****ing livid with Tomas on that one. There's no Millwall player near, Rather him catch it and build a phase of play rather than it be headed out and having to contend a second ball. I've said this before, but Kalas time and again both giving and receiving shouts is awful at communications. That was one of the reasons we signed Klose in the first place - who actually communicates. Let alone the fact it also meant Rob got partially wiped as well.

Its being towards the edge of area means nothing, he's not leaving the area whatsoever, its HIS area, he's completely in rights in make that call.

You obviously didn’t hear Twentyman’s view , as an ex centre half

[KegCity]

I don’t think it was the right decision to come out, however he did and he would’ve caught the ball if the defender listens to the shout. It’s not great decision making but he ultimately got there and commanded his area, something he’s received criticism for.

To me it’s a mistake but not a howler by any stretch. Again he’s half a second away from catching the ball before it’s then cleared away, if someone’s put a name on the ball it’s theirs to deal with. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

For me, that (notwithstanding the shout) was a bad call by Max to come. Video below - I don’t know exactly when he shouts keepers, but facts remain:

- It’s dropping very close to the edge of the box, and he can’t judge if it’s in or out when he comes

- He has three defenders there. You can argue they should move, but the counter argument is he can see they have it covered and are better positioned than him

- He should punch and not try and catch there once he’s come

What I think may have happened here is Max has seen the criticism of sticking to line and made a decision to come out more. Nothing wrong with that, but it was totally the wrong decision 

On a side note, I find it bizarre that most have said what Max had over Bents is ability at feet but he’s consistently gone longer and percentage balls in the last two games. Clearly instructions but is bizarre.

On the plus side, on the first goal I thought Max made a great initial save and got up for second phase quickly but was let down by defence. However, I remain unconvinced overall and don’t think he is the long term answer.

 

Following discussions on a thread a few days ago about ‘divisive’ and decisive goalkeepers, I should be interested to hear @Davefevs’s views on this.

[red colin]

1 hour ago, Dredd said:

Or

Kalas listens to the shout from the keeper, Max catches it and we have possession?

I don’t understand how Max gets the blame.  Yes it’s a long way to come but there isn’t a Millwall player even attempting to challenge him for the ball?! Therefore it’s a perfectly acceptable decision to come and collect, and he makes the call to make everyone is aware he’s doing so. Kalas is 100% to blame for that goal not Max. 

Think max called went to punch but kalas came in front and actually headed it to there player max pulled out partially due to Kalas  coming in front of him. Bit of a flook could of landed anywhere but as our luck is it fell right to the foot of there player. Both max and kalas were doing what we have wanted but maybe trying too hard both of them so I don't feel it's fair to blame anyone. 

 

[The turtle]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

For me, that (notwithstanding the shout) was a bad call by Max to come. Video below - I don’t know exactly when he shouts keepers, but facts remain:

- It’s dropping very close to the edge of the box, and he can’t judge if it’s in or out when he comes

- He has three defenders there. You can argue they should move, but the counter argument is he can see they have it covered and are better positioned than him

- He should punch and not try and catch there once he’s come

What I think may have happened here is Max has seen the criticism of sticking to line and made a decision to come out more. Nothing wrong with that, but it was totally the wrong decision 

On a side note, I find it bizarre that most have said what Max had over Bents is ability at feet but he’s consistently gone longer and percentage balls in the last two games. Clearly instructions but is bizarre.

On the plus side, on the first goal I thought Max made a great initial save and got up for second phase quickly but was let down by defence. However, I remain unconvinced overall and don’t think he is the long term answer.

i think when you judge it on this alone, this one knock into the box you will look and think why is he coming?

 

However context is important, they were winning first and second balls in the box, they really could have scored 5 or 6 from those crosses into the box.

Time and again ball was flashing wide etc etc.

 

He'd clearly taken the premeditated decision to remove the issue at source.

 

On the face of it it seems a careless keeper mistake , but in the context of the game it was the result of the defence losing the defensive aerial battle , by some way, and a keeper trying to fix that.

 

I'm not saying he made the right call, just that if we looked in anyway secure he doesn't come.

 

[1960maaan]

For ages we have all wanted a keeper to dominate the box, Max tries and gets crucified for it.

Exactly what we have wanted, Keeper gives early clear loud shout and comes to catch. Not one Millwall player interested having heard the shout.
If he's allowed to catch, we have possession and we can start an attack

Bentley wouldn't have come, he just doesn't,  Max is better in that respect . 

The first goal, it's a reaction save I doubt he had chance to think about where to try and place the rebound. It was a good save, unfortunately it bounced straight to their player. He's done everything asked of him in the last 2 games, it's almost like we want to blame him for something .

Edited October 15, 2022 by 1960maaan

[maxjak]

Have just seen the 2nd goal again on ITV highlights.... O'Leary is totally  100% culpable for it.  Ridiculous stupid run to the edge of the box, when all he had to do was stay on his line.  2nd game in.........and he has already phecked up.  He will never make it as 1st choice keeper ...which is a shame . 

[firstdivision]

If you come that far for the ball, you have to get it (catch or punch). Seems pretty simple to me.

I actually think MO has been excellent since his recall (apart from that, admittedly, key moment).

[t_b]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Nige clearly doesn’t rate Bentley anymore, but Max isn’t good enough and isn’t a step up. Be very surprised if Bajic isn’t in before the World Cup break 

I agree here. NP can’t not comment on it. If he throws O’Leary under the bus, he’s got to change based on his comments and reasoning for ditching Bentley. 
Keep Max in but with a view to a change on the bench maybe?

[GrahamC]

11 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

 

The first goal, it's a reaction save I doubt he had chance to think about where to try and place the rebound. It was a good save, unfortunately it bounced straight to their player. He's done everything asked of him in the last 2 games, it's almost like we want to blame him for something .

First goal can’t be down to Max, even if some are trying to make it so.

Good reaction save, no time to do more than that but defensively we simply don’t react & get in a challenge quickly enough for the second ball.

For the second goal Kalas should have respected his shout but I do feel it is too far out & he’s coming through 3 of our defenders for this, which seems unnecessary.

Absolutely no idea how we’ll line up on Tuesday but based on NP’s comments he looks a certainty.

[The turtle]

i think when you judge it on this alone, this one knock into the box you will look and think why is he coming?

 

However context is important, they were winning first and second balls in the box, they really could have scored 5 or 6 from those crosses into the box.

Time and again ball was flashing wide etc etc.

 

He'd clearly taken the premeditated decision to remove the issue at source.

 

On the face of it it seems a careless keeper mistake , but in the context of the game it was the result of the defence losing the defensive aerial battle , by some way, and a keeper trying to fix that.

 

I'm not saying he made the right call, just that if we looked in anyway secure he doesn't come.

[1960maaan]

24 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Absolutely no idea how we’ll line up on Tuesday but based on NP’s comments he looks a certainty.

I don't think he can be faulted for much today, so I'd say he would start.

I'd be looking further up the pitch for possible swaps. 
I would have Pring in, but that may be a stretch, Weimann & Conway are the ones I think are at risk.

[maxjak]

4 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Oh and we moan about our keepers not coming for the ball . Hilarious . Let’s make Max the scapegoat . Let’s go back to Birmingham where our keeper made 3 howlers .  it was a terrible goal to give away , but you could hear his call from the half way line . Absolute howler from the defence unit. 

The fact that Bentley messed up at Birmingham is completely irrelevant and  an entirely pointless observation .  .  Max has a chance to establish himself as first choice keeper, and despite his good all round play....you CANNOT make such a major screw up as the 2nd goal, and hope to  remain a reliable first team keeper.  He should never have come for that ball , it was a poor mistake which cost his team a point.  Having watched the incident a number of times, it was rank bad judgement.  I just cannot see him as a solid dependable goalkeeper long term..........which is a shame.  And a reliable trustworthy  goalkeeper is an absolute priority  for the future of the team.

[maxjak]

12 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

You clearly are clueless . As ever. If only the team were as consistent as your ill informed rubbish . You really have no idea about football . 

You are awarded the saddest  post of the evening award.....Congrats.   If you have nothing constructive to say, and cannot propose a reasonable valid argument    to construct    your point of view. ....then i am afraid you just come across as an inarticulate,  ill informed waste of time.  If you were capable of organising your thoughts, and could have engaged in a reasonable response, we could have had a interesting debate..................but it seems you just prefer to sling insults. I feel sorry for you.  

[DaveF]

3 hours ago, Beni71 said:

1st goal was a strange one.

Max saved us a goal but cost us a goal. Great save but poor technique, rather than palming the ball away from goal, I think it hits the base of hand and rather go away from goal goes back to the centre of goal.

I’m being picky on this.

It's a great save but I think it's one of those where just getting a hand on it is fine, you hope your defenders bail you out.

[RedorDead BCFC]

I thought at the time  Kalas was already committed to the jump when Max shouted.