"Nige Should Walk"

[bpexile]

7 hours ago, gl2 said:

Spot right on, same engine driver = same destination. Bring back Cotts

As much as I liked & still do like Cotts, our chances of fielding a full side would be remote as he didn't seem to favour playing our academy lads.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, The Bard said:

finger in the air decision making.  As soon as there are signs of trouble, change course in a reactive rather than a planned way.

Who do you think will be appointing the new manager should Nigel Pearson be sacked?  Either Richard Gould who is leaving soon or Jon Lansdown.  Do you think there has been any serious contemplation of of who we should be lining up?  Thought not.

Remember the Dean Holden 'appointment'?  I think we could outdo that if we sacked Pearson now.

2 wins in 13games 1 win in 7 at home which ever way you cut it that is rubbish; sadly if NP walked or got chopped on Sat I`ve no faith what so ever that the Boss would be capable of selecting someone better. That doesnt mean we have to bury our heads in the sand and hope things change.

We should change our manager just to do something as doing nothing will just continue us on this slippery slope.

NP made way to many changes last night which paid Lincoln no respect, and they made us pay.

Poor results and to many mistakes by players and manager means to me that we should look elsewhere

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by gl2

[TDarwall]

I'm not fussed about last night (probably because I wasn't there).  However I think it puts greater pressure on Saturdays match.  It's easily forgotten but we played pretty well v Swans & Sheff Utd & could have come away with 6 points.

A big defeat on Sat & I wouldn't be surprised if the Board act, however whoever is in charge I think the issue is the same, with such a thin squad we need as many as our best players fit & on form.  If Kalas & Naismith are available after the debacle that is occurring in Qatar it will be a huge boost to whoever is in charge.

Personally I would stick for a bit longer (irrespective of Sat's result).

 

 

 

[City oz]

8 hours ago, Jerseybean said:

From my perspective the deeper issues (accepting that some are not unique to us) include:

The previous manager and CE - who IMO were given far too much authority to bring in loads of average/poor players. NP takes a very different position preferring (and partly having to) manage with a small squad.

Our wage structure - NP has sought to create a more equitable wage structure as apparently he inherited a very diverse range of salaries, including some excessive earners.

Our lack of identity and style of play - under LJ it was a lotto week in week out in terms of team selection, again NP has a very different approach e.g. play well and you keep your place.

As you mention our FFP dilemma and the general state of the financial side of Championship clubs which has been compounded by Covid and has required us to sell our best players and grow our own.

The Club culture which has been remarked upon +++ just recently NP spoke about ‘what a nice Club’ we have been. I believe NP has worked hard to turn this around, however, lasting  culture change takes years and years to become embedded.

The Board and major shareholder - who have demonstrated the ability to repeat mistakes and despite building an impressive infrastructure haven’t been able to create a consistent/ successful first team squad.

Our location and history - both of which I believe are barriers to attracting players. 

Realistically turning around a Club like ours takes years - something NP and many fans appreciate. Part of the problem, of course, is that we all want to watch great football and follow a winning team!  

All great points but we did have a manager in 76/77 that did it for us

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

My forecast loss of £23m for last season doesn't at all align to the £18m squad wage bill let alone the £28m one!! Will make for very interesting reading.

That aside, do largely agree with your post and I see hope for the future from these levels with Tanner, Wilson, Atkinson, Sykes- is Sykes the future at RWB or should he move to compete in midfield..Wilson v Sykes for RWB next year? Pivotal that we get through this tough season though, exit the other side still a Championship club.

That last bit is key, should we stick or twist with the current manager? yes we have had injuries etc and a small squad but so have other teams.

We need some points and quick, some are hoping that the coming break will help us (the last one didnt, we got worse) others that the next window will help (it will also help others) We live in hope yet reality is we are not learning from our mistakes and are on the slide.

[RedorDead BCFC]

8 hours ago, Rossi the Robin said:

This isn’t a normal league this season. 2 wins and you can be just off the play offs 

It’s not the usual scenario of being bottom 3 or near bottom 3 

Whilst I agree it’s tighter than normal but for us to win those 2 would mean the rest of the league to stand still. 

[Son of Fred]

10 hours ago, gl2 said:

If we dont win v Watford, imo def yes, last chance saloon i.m.o.........

If anyone Lansdown should be first to fall on the sword.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RedorDead BCFC said:

Whilst I agree it’s tighter than normal but for us to win those 2 would mean the rest of the league to stand still. 

We are getting close to lj territory who was sacked after 1 win in 10; we have...repeating again 1 win in 7 at home and 2 wins in 13................tic, toc NP

[marcofisher]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No, but I’d hazard a guess that Kalas is on £20-25k p.w. and Dasilva on £12-15k p.w.  Let’s split the difference and say combined £35k p.w.

£1.8m p.a. in wages plus

£2.5m p.a. in amortisation

eek!

 

7 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Higher, higher on the wages ... Add in Bentley and Wells and you will not be far off £5M . With a squad wage bill of £18 m ( suggested by SL- though that does not stack up with the £28M loss coming) , those 4 players take up a disproportinate amount of wages and stop the club building a squad with depth. Can we replace those 4 for players on less money and greater ability ? In theory yes, but lets see how the recruitment works out, as we cannot sign L1/L2 players and expect instant returns , as we have witnessed. It takes time. 

Eek to both of your posts. I am hoping that Wells after this season, his age and seeing that he actually works quite well in the system that he has eventually broken into, stays on a reduced deal. One that would bring him in line with everyone else. Mind you I could also see him going MLS.

 

The other three I can’t wait to see the back of. It’s very telling when Kalas is not featuring and Vyner is our stand out, and ditto with Dasilva and Pring. Two academy players, fraction of the price! 

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, gl2 said:

2 wins in 13games 1 win in 7 at home which ever way you cut it that is rubbish; sadly if NP walked or got chopped on Sat I`ve no faith what so ever that the Boss would be capable of selecting someone better. That doesnt mean we have to bury our heads in the sand and hope things change.

We should change our manager just to do something as doing nothing will just continue us on this slippery slope.

NP made way to many changes last night which paid Lincoln no respect, and they made us pay.

Poor results and to many mistakes by players and manager means to me that we should look elsewhere

 

The trouble for you could well be that that Lansdown is likely to give the job to Fleming - 

I assume you've considered this is very much possible??

Be careful what you wish for.

[Jerseybean]

8 hours ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Agree**. Regardless of one's views on Pearson, it's clear that the issues at the club are deeper than the manager. This has been the case for a long long time.

Culture, finances, identity, player recruitment, appointments of managers and staff, etc etc. There's a long list of areas where you'd look at Bristol City, look at other Championship teams, and conclude that we're average at best (likely below average). When you've been underwhelming in so many departments for so many years, you have to look towards the top of the club.

 

 

**The one point I don't agree with is location being an issue. Never really understood the argument for this. There are teams in far 'worse' locations who manage just fine.

SR my main reason for including location is our distance from many of the most successful Clubs (excluding those in and around London) which has I think has always made recruitment / loans more challenging. 

[Jeez]

I like Pearson's approach to the overall running of the football side of the club and he's had a positive effect so I'd want to keep him at least until the end of the season, if not longer. But I suspect while he's good at instilling values he's also stubborn & possibly not so great at motivating the modern sports professionals, we've seen how cantankerous he can be in interviews & when back's are against the wall that attitude is a risky approach. 

My preference would be to create a role for Pearson away from match day / day to day with squad & promote Euell into the Head Coach role until the end of the season, give him the freedom to make cultural, tactical & personnel decisions, get a buzz amongst the team. I get the impression the squad have a lot of respect for him.

So no, Nigel shouldn't walk but he could take the lift upstairs.

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, Son of Fred said:

If anyone Lansdown should be first to fall on the sword.

You're suggesting SL should resign? he owns the whole lot, not something he can do.  Or perhaps he sells up?  He's already openly said he'd be up for outside investment.  Perhaps I am missing your point.

45 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

The trouble for you could well be that that Lansdown is likely to give the job to Fleming - 

I assume you've considered this is very much possible??

Be careful what you wish for.

Fleming won't get the job, Jason Euell might though.  He has management ambitions, that's one of the reasons he left Charlton.

[Daniro]

17 minutes ago, Jeez said:

I like Pearson's approach to the overall running of the football side of the club and he's had a positive effect so I'd want to keep him at least until the end of the season, if not longer. But I suspect while he's good at instilling values he's also stubborn & possibly not so great at motivating the modern sports professionals, we've seen how cantankerous he can be in interviews & when back's are against the wall that attitude is a risky approach. 

My preference would be to create a role for Pearson away from match day / day to day with squad & promote Euell into the Head Coach role until the end of the season, give him the freedom to make cultural, tactical & personnel decisions, get a buzz amongst the team. I get the impression the squad have a lot of respect for him.

So no, Nigel shouldn't walk but he could take the lift upstairs.

Interesting idea.

I didn't go last night and haven't seen the highlights, but reading about the game on here, it seems another example of Pearson not being  able to inspire or motivate the team into higher levels of performance.  He rates himself as a man manager but I'm beginning to question that.    I've always assumed his dour demeanour is just his "TV face" and sort of respected that.   But the more I think about it, the less I can imagine him being able to lift the team spirit before a game or at half time.  Look at the passion you see from really successful managers and compare that to NP.    It seems the players don't want to prove anything or impress anybody, they don't seem to care what he thinks or whether he'll drop them.

[ExiledAjax]

Others are competently covering Pearson's strengths, weaknesses, successes and failures.

However, for me the elephant in the room is that our CEO is leaving at the end of January. That in itself will create disruption and upheaval. Perhaps not directly on the pitch and for the players, but certainly it will directly affect whoever the manager is, and the rest of the coaches and staff, and that will indirectly effect the players. 

Pearson and Gould seem to work well together on a personal and professional level. Perhaps they are not currently delivering what some fans demand, but they work well together as people.

Do we want to risk changing both of these key people within a matter of months? Months that include a world cup break, the busy Christmas season, and then a transfer window? 

Personally I lean towards no. Stick with the team as we have it for now, and then a new CEO (or whatever structure we go with) can assess in the spring.

[Rossi the Robin]

10 hours ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

That is precisely the kind of mentality that will end with us in deep shit

What mentality precisely? - I’m just posting on a football forum

Just a week ago, if we had beaten Sheffield Utd, which we weren’t far off doing, we would have been 3 points off the play offs

Its a tight league, quite unprecedented 

 

[mozo]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nothing I write on here about Nige tonight us gonna change anyone’s opinion, so…

…tonight he picks a mix and match team.  His decision.  His responsibility.  It performed awfully in the first half, left the subs with a mountain to climb.  I’m not gonna mention any positives, it’s futile, and they’re inconsequential in the aftermath of this type of result and performance.  But…

…we were all pretty excited by thoughts of Low and Kadji starting pre-game, very few (if any) shouts of “play your best(ish) team, get ahead and then introduce the youngsters”, so we all bought into the risk of the team that was picked when it was announced at 6:45pm.  And now we are behaving (in some cases) that we did t understand the risks of such an approach.  That’s not excusing Nige, he did the same.

But we saw how a couple of youngsters mixed in with the wrong team can struggle as an opposed to a couple of youngsters with the best team.  I’m not digging out Low and Kadji, but, I’ve been consistent in my view that at their current development stages:

Kadji - is Bakinson-lite.  He doesn’t want the ball, he doesn’t create angles to receive, and he doesn’t really put his player under any pressure when he closes down.  That sounds harsh, but I’ve seen him enough times to think he needs a lot of improvement and effort if he’s gonna make it.  Tonight was a wake up call. @Sheltons Armywhat did you think?

Low - not seen anywhere near enough of him, but I’ve yet to see him in u21s have a tough opponent, either one who’s physical, or one who’ll spin in him behind.  So until tonight I’ve reserved judgement.  Tonight was “welcome to EFL football”…it was just a bit too quick for him.  But he’s a big lad, still growing into his frame.

I’m not writing either off, and I hope they both take tonight onboard and see where they need to improve.  Both are plenty young enough to improve.

Sounds harsh to start on them, but I’m almost too angry to write about Dasilva and Sykes.  You can see why neither started on Saturday and Nige resorted to playing Weimann and Semenyo at WB. Sykes was a mess positionally, Dasilva won’t be earning a new contract on recent form.

Nige is undoubtedly under pressure from the fans.  The “game in hand” teams stole a match tonight, and we will see what it means for the board.  I still believe in Nige.  Tonight ought to make no difference, silly old cup game, but I believe going through was in some ways more important than Saturday v Watford.  There are players who’ve made Nige’s selection very easy for Saturday.

Well Dave you posted yourself how you wanted a strong line up with few changes and you had good reasons why. We didn't get that. I think you would have picked a more suitable side to atvleast compete.

[Sheltons Army]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Kadji - is Bakinson-lite.  He doesn’t want the ball, he doesn’t create angles to receive, and he doesn’t really put his player under any pressure when he closes down.  That sounds harsh, but I’ve seen him enough times to think he needs a lot of improvement and effort if he’s gonna make it.  Tonight was a wake up call. @Sheltons Armywhat did you think?

 

Well considered , thoughtful post Dave

As for Kadji , you know my gut feel and observations how he was at the stage of the Coventry game and I’m still of the same opinion - needs to up a gear or two if he is to establish himself in first team football 

Decent technique , great frame but almost content if he’s not that involved , if that doesn’t sound daft

Needs more ‘give me the ball , I can play’

Needs to get busy

That of course is a gut feel from ‘distance’ and limited watches , and obviously don’t know the lads character , whether he is as ‘chilled’ as he appears

Screamed Bakinson at that game and we were more impressed with Owers of the two 

Have been slightly surprised by his push into first team action at this point but  clearly  has impressed the coaching staff so who am I to question

Almost feel he needs a spark or a push to make him a player he could threaten to be - maybe that’s the idea - Think we both always liked Conway but I still didn’t see him performing so well , so quickly , at this level

Some players it pulls them up a level , some take longer to make the step up , and some can’t make that step

I think there’s an element of testing and throwing a challenge by Pearson , to see the response and whether they actually are close to first team readiness and has done it with Benarous , Bell etc too

 

Theres no taking away from the performance or result last night but in terms of selection it was an opportunity to have another look at him , and test Low ,

We talk about a pathway , and it is vital there is one but Pearson is trying to build a Club here , more for the next few years rather than just now

As he’s pointed out , and we know with so many potential departures in summer there’s a big construction job required that needs plenty of preparation and planning

I suspect he has taken the opportunity to have a look at Kadji , and Low in terms of a small part of such prep

Can I see them as full first team squad slots in the next 12 ....18 months ,

....could they save one recruitment slot 

... or do they need another 12 months minimum , and I need to fill that hole

 

Having said all that , I do wish we’d make the most of our cup opportunities , but can understand his processes, and we can’t have it both ways

I would suggest it was the senior / established players that were the major disappointment last night

Inconsistent performance and you sometimes feel desire ,  from established first team  players is hampering NP massively

Im sure NP would like to make major surgery across the squad , whether he will ever get the chance and time ....  

A selfish manager , concerned about his position would have picked his strongest team last night and worried about Watford after

And there may he some out there amongst the swathe that wouldn’t , come in , have a impact result wise , but will be totally focused on the next result , not where the Club will be in 3/4/5 years time

In NP we have someone who actually fancies the build challenge and IMHO doesn’t actually stress about his ‘position’ so follows processes that he believes will benefit the Club and is needed to become a better functioning Club with the right mentality 

Whether that’s what people want or are prepared to go through looks , sadly , very debatable 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[Red-Robbo]

I'm not convinced another manager could improve us fast enough to salvage much from this season - and we're not an attractive prospect for anyone with much of a pedigree.  

If the rest of the season is a relegation battle then the Pearson experiment can be counted as failed. New ideas needed. 

It has to be said, he does drop a number of clangers and make some baffling choices.I wonder if his health issues during Covid left a permanent dent on his managerial ability? They say a 'clouded mind' is one symptom of Long Covid 

[mozo]

4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I'm not convinced another manager could improve us fast enough to salvage much from this season - and we're not an attractive prospect for anyone with much of a pedigree.  

If the rest of the season is a relegation battle then the Pearson experiment can be counted as failed. New ideas needed. 

It has to be said, he does drop a number of clangers and make some baffling choices.I wonder if his health issues during Covid left a permanent dent on his managerial ability? They say a 'clouded mind' is one symptom of Long Covid 

The problem with assessing a manager during a dodgy period is you never know if the good stuff is because of him, or in spite of him. Equally, is the bad stuff because of him or despite him?

Agree with some baffling decision making, including last night. 

Testing a couple of breakthrough youngsters in the cup is fine. Rotating the squad for the cup is fine. But doing both is just inviting chaos.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

Just some perspective League Two Gillingham knocked out Premier League Brentford.  Lincoln are not that bad a side not that far away from us divisionally we played a weak side and paid the price simple, but we have a hard game Saturday and picking up injuries to some key players against a physical L1 side is not a great idea.

[Kingswood Robin]

I'd like him to stay, keep us up and rebuild some more in the summer. However, this is reminding me of one of those electric car tests, will it run out of power before getting to the destination? I fear we'll get to a position in the league where he won't make it to the end of the season.

[maxjak]

13 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

Why would be walk, when he gets a pay out when he is sacked. 

Walk?.........He should Run?

[Rossi the Robin]

Who would be would be happy with Fleming with Euell as his assistant, as that’s the most likely scenario if NP was giving his marching orders?

[spudski]

I don't think he should walk, as I think what he brings to the Club in aspects away from results perse is needed.

However... imo...I do think he and his coaching staff should look at ways of playing and setting up differently.

It's becoming a bit like when SC was managing us in the Championship.

He favoured a wing back style of play. Wouldn't budge and we lost games.

We are far to open to error at the back. And playing with a 3 doesn't help. More so when the wing backs aren't particularly good at defending.

With injuries and now the added pressure of relegation looming, it becomes even harder to play freely and confident.

NP has said with the defenders we have, we'll concede. So we have to rely on scoring...which has dried up. Imo...because we play too many crosses into the box that are easy to defend against. The wing backs don't defend well...and their crossing is poor on most occasions.

Leave yourself open at the back, and rely on poor crossing, then you are asking for trouble.

I'd like us to shore ourselves up more, instead of being gung ho. It's entertaining to watch when you win and it comes off...but now look at us. Same happened with Cotts.

Imo...we are more than capable of playing a more compact 433 system. 

 

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

I don't think he should walk, as I think what he brings to the Club in aspects away from results perse is needed.

However... imo...I do think he and his coaching staff should look at ways of playing and setting up differently.

It's becoming a bit like when SC was managing us in the Championship.

He favoured a wing back style of play. Wouldn't budge and we lost games.

We are far to open to error at the back. And playing with a 3 doesn't help. More so when the wing backs aren't particularly good at defending.

With injuries and now the added pressure of relegation looming, it becomes even harder to play freely and confident.

NP has said with the defenders we have, we'll concede. So we have to rely on scoring...which has dried up. Imo...because we play too many crosses into the box that are easy to defend against. The wing backs don't defend well...and their crossing is poor on most occasions.

Leave yourself open at the back, and rely on poor crossing, then you are asking for trouble.

I'd like us to shore ourselves up more, instead of being gung ho. It's entertaining to watch when you win and it comes off...but now look at us. Same happened with Cotts.

Imo...we are more than capable of playing a more compact 433 system. 

 

Completely agree. The wing back situation has consistently appeared flawed so why not let DaSilva and Tanner play full back (or whoever is in favour), and reduce the need to play players out of position. 

It's weird because we've heard NP say in at least one interview earlier in his tenure that he prefers a back 4 and yet when he had a shortage of centrebacks he chose to fudge a 3 instead of reverting to 2 CBs.

I know some people don't think formations are particularly relevant but even if it reset the focus it would be worth it. 

I'd support NP trying the current formula, with his strongest available squad vs Watford, but if that doesn't go well, use the world Cup break to rip it up and start afresh.

[Banjo Red]

1 hour ago, Rossi the Robin said:

Who would be would be happy with Fleming with Euell as his assistant, as that’s the most likely scenario if NP was giving his marching orders?

Like Fleming a lot seems very passionate 

[ExiledAjax]

Required listening for all of us today. Pearson gets a Watford-related mention very early on.

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

I don't think he should walk, as I think what he brings to the Club in aspects away from results perse is needed.

However... imo...I do think he and his coaching staff should look at ways of playing and setting up differently.

It's becoming a bit like when SC was managing us in the Championship.

He favoured a wing back style of play. Wouldn't budge and we lost games.

We are far to open to error at the back. And playing with a 3 doesn't help. More so when the wing backs aren't particularly good at defending.

With injuries and now the added pressure of relegation looming, it becomes even harder to play freely and confident.

NP has said with the defenders we have, we'll concede. So we have to rely on scoring...which has dried up. Imo...because we play too many crosses into the box that are easy to defend against. The wing backs don't defend well...and their crossing is poor on most occasions.

Leave yourself open at the back, and rely on poor crossing, then you are asking for trouble.

I'd like us to shore ourselves up more, instead of being gung ho. It's entertaining to watch when you win and it comes off...but now look at us. Same happened with Cotts.

Imo...we are more than capable of playing a more compact 433 system. 

I think you make a good point with the formation we play it's hard to keep scoring if your linking midfielders are forced to play with less freedom and have to cover more.  The service the forwards get tends to then come in the form of crosses and less through the middle and goals dry up ad when banging balls in from the wingbacks fails you end up with a very low chance to conversion rate.   It also sidelines Scott to a degree. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Rossi the Robin said:

What mentality precisely? - I’m just posting on a football forum

Just a week ago, if we had beaten Sheffield Utd, which we weren’t far off doing, we would have been 3 points off the play offs

Its a tight league, quite unprecedented 

 

Ifs and buts are not points, we need points Saturday and not; poor ref, bad mistake, should have could have scored, we were unlucky and good old fine lines.

Can see us getting bullied to death yet play well, we need to cut out the unforced errors, not play Martin ever again and sit AS on the bench for a start, anyway we are on the slide it has to stop.

Edited November 9, 2022 by gl2