The Squad

[robinforlife2]

Whether you are Nigel in or Nigel out, the fact of the matter is you have to evaluate our whole squad and determine the answer to the most sensible question, are our squad performing.

Last night I sent a mate of mine who supports West Brom, the list of our squad and how he would view them as Championship Players.

The following are his views;

Daniel Bentley - Solid Championship Keeper

Kane Wilson - Promising lower league player, untested at this level

Jay Dasilva - Solid Championship Player

Kal Naismith - Very good Championship Player

Rob Atkinson - Quality League One Player, capable at this level

Matty James - Not the player he was, but still solid at this level

Alex Scott - Very good player, Premier League Standard

Joe Williams- Solid Championship Player

Chris Martin - Used to be okay at this level, but getting on a bit now

Andy King - Was a good player, couldn't judge him now as not noticed him

Antoine Semenyo - Decent player at this level

Max O'Leary- Said he had caught his eye when he has seen him play a few times, and thinks he is very much an underrated player and wouldn't mind seeing him at West Brom

Andreas Weimann - Said West Brom hate him, as he has always been a bogey player for them, as often scores against them, but is a very good player at this level

Tommy Conway- He thinks he could be very good. Impressed by him when we played them and thinks he is a future Premier League player

Cameron Pring - Doesn't know anything about him, but his stats have been okay for the first team, so must be capable

Mark Sykes - Said he looks a nearly player to him, probably too good for League One, not quite good enough for the Championship

George Tanner - Said again doesn't know enough about him, but his stats rate that he is reliable at this level, so not a bad player all things considered.

Nahki Wells - He thought he was brilliant against them and said he wished they had him at West Brom, he is a quality striker at this level

Tomas Kalas - Won promotions from this league with other clubs and is a rock at the back, likes him. (We all know he's injured)

Timm Klose - May be getting on a bit, but he saw him as a solid defender at this level, and thinks he played very well against them

Zak Vyner - His comment is one that struck to me. You don't play 100 matches at this level and not be good enough. May not be a star player, but if you manage 100 games at a certain level, that's your level 

Han Noah Massengo - Said he rated him as a player and thought he was decent when he saw him last year, surprised he has disappeared.

Stefan Bajic - Had never heard of him, but watched last nights match and said, he looked like a rabbit in headlights.

------

So whilst many people have the conclusion, the squad is not good enough and Pearson is doing well with the tools he has, a supporter of another Championship club believes that 15 of our Squad are of Championship standard, and 4 are of potential Championship standard.

Bar 1 or 2, I pretty much agree with his comments also.

Yes there can be some credit given for injuries to Naismith, and Kalas which means depth is not our friend.

But a team with 15-19 players who are capable at this level, should not be failing to perform.

The one thing I disagree with, is when we are in a position that we need points and wages are paid regardless, two players in Bentley and Massengo appear to be frozen out now. For a club with financial constraints, is it wise to have say 30K a week of talent, not being utilised?

Regardless of whether they have no future here and will not be here next season, they should be involved in the squad, as they are capable at this level.

For me, an injury free line up should be

Bentley

DaSilva - Atkinson - Kalas - Klose - Naismith

James - Scott

Weimann

Wells - Conway

Bench:

O'Leary, Tanner, Pring, Vyner, Massengo, Williams, Semenyo

That is a very capable Championship side, with adequate cover. 

There is no doubt, we have a larger than ideal wage bill, but the fact is the big wages are utilised by some of our best players, if these players can't be kept on better deals for the club, they need replacing. Those calling for Kalas, Bentley, Wells & Dasilva to be moved on to free up money, have to accept that 3 of those actually need replacing by incoming players, which means you have to be able to recruit well, Pearson whilst not disastrous, has not recruited outstandingly.

Simpson and King were a waste of wages, forget about off field influences, they were signed as players and not coaches. 

James has been one of his better signings.

Williams is always injured, Tanner is still raw, Atkinson is probably his best signing. Naismith is a solid squad player, but another to have picked up an injury and has been a delight at times, and a frustration at other.

Klose has been OK, and is not a bad signing. 

It is too early to write off Sykes, Wilson & Bajic, but at present it's hard to say they are an improvement on what we had here already.

Pearson has had the luxury of several promising players developing through the academy, but these are players who have been here all along.

If people get their wish and certain players leave at the end of the season due to contracts expiring, they must also accept that a couple of the starlets will also be sold.

I fear at the end of the season our squad will look as follows;

Wilson
Naismith
Atkinson
Williams
O'Leary
Weimann
Conway
Pring 
Sykes
Tanner
Vyner 
Bajic

This means we go from 15 Championship standard players to 7, and the 4 potential remain.

This means despite the big wages gone, we will need to recruit 8-10 players and that will not be easy.

Staying in the Championship is Vital to our progression, bigger teams than us have dropped to League One and it has taken them a long time to get back out, and most are still there! 

Those saying Pearson has been dealt a hard hand, may want to look at the facts, that on paper our Squad, albeit a bit thin, has at least 19 players who are solid, capable or promising at this level. With that in mind, we should not be in the position we are in.

Teams who have been promoted with a core of League One standard players are performing better than ourselves, or are as equally vulnerable. 

On the pitch, 29% all fixtures and 25% at home, are a win rate, which deservedly gets you the sack.

Pearson's short term reign at the club, should have never led to a three year contract, but he sold the club a plan to fix, and stabilise the club and progress. Now I am not ignorant enough to say, he has not stabilised the financial mess and worked within constraints given to him, but I think the club is far from fixed, and I would give more credence to the academy staff, who keep plucking one or two gems out, to help out the first team. But for me the key word is progression and whilst there is progression and can be further progression off the pitch, we are not progressing on the pitch and at the end of the day, that is a manager's number one job.

I personally believe we are in a real danger of being relegated and we are lucky the league is as wide open as it is, as it means our 2 wins in 12 games has not been heavily punished, however clubs around us have started to find form, and some of these have made changes management wise and this is bearing fruits.

Saturday for me is the last game Pearson should be in charge. It then gives the board 4 weeks during the world cup to make a replacement of bringing in a short term manager to make sure this club does not go down. That has to be the key factor. Not sign someone for 2/3 years, a 6 month job to get us to the summer of a better financial position and be able to attract a manager who can start to take the club forward in a positive manner.

This squad is underperforming and going backwards under Pearson, maybe losing confidence and possibly many are looking at the exit door already. Pearson will not turn this around, this is very much his squad which are underperforming. It's not a case of them not being good enough. Their histories and abilities show they are capable at this level, what they need is new vision, to get them on track, steady the ship and make sure BCFC are in the Championship next season.

I thank Pearson for what he has done behind the scenes and appreciate the constraints he has had to work with, but it's a results business and just because you get all the pieces out the box and put them on a mat, doesn't mean you'll finish the puzzle. 

The next 6 months are about preparation and protection of our status, it is no longer about looking forward 6 months or 18 months of a financially better City that can rebuild and recruit, it's about making sure, we are not a League One team with a fancy all singing and dancing stadium and Academy players who will be picked up left right and centre. 

The team are underperforming, that is a fact. This is not to do with money and average tools.

We have a squad that should be performing better, but they are not, and they are also not being fully utilised to the best of our advantage and that is a managers job.

That is the fundamental reason why change is now needed. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by robinforlife2

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Very detailed and interesting read. Too many points to deal with individually. But I generally agree with most if not all of them. The crunch comes down to the boards support it not of NP. I like NP and feel he has fine a lot of good esp. Behind the scenes and putting things right after the Ashton **** up.but the team is just not doing it on the pitch and relegation is now a real concern. Lose against Watford. And I do feel NP might be sacked and someone , who has already been sourced, comes In to keep us up. Or they might feel that the WC break gives injured players time and the break gives NP the reset time to finish the season well. Watford now a must win game. Lose and be interesting to see how the board react.

COYR.  Red till I die

[And Its Smith]

Could a new manager make us harder to score against from set plays?  Could a new manager try a new formation with this one clearly leaving us exposed in certain areas?  Could a new manager motivate these players better?  Could a new manager get more from our players?

I’m still ‘Pearson In’ as I always believe in giving a manager enough time to 100% categorically know if he is the man or not and I don’t think we are there yet with Pearson.  But these are questions that need to be considered.  He does seem to have a messiah like complex with some fans which I do understand as he comes across as very knowledgable and a fatherly figure in a crisis.  I would give him until the end of the season to stop producing performances like last night and Birmingham 

[marcofisher]

I don’t disagree with the fact we have some decent players. But when most of our back line is injured or never properly fit, I don’t know what is it be expected. 
 

Vyner is our only centre back who was starting by the beginning of our season. Even then most wouldn’t have listed him as a starter if we had a fully fit squad and would have put Kalas there. We are stacked in expensive defenders (Kalas and Dasilva), who have been injured all season or woefully out of form. 
 

We are well equipped in forward areas and have a decent midfield when fit I agree. But if Naismith, Kalas, Atkinson and Klose had been fully fit for this season would we be in the position? I don’t think so. 
 

It’s all great saying we have a decent squad for this level when we have all of first choice players in certain positions injured or unfit. If we had four strikers injured, we would be equally as ineffective going forwards! 
 

I would think we would be far better after the World Cup where we have a month off to really focus on training and getting our players in a good window of match fitness.

 

For me, once we have these players fully fit again, we start putting wins on the board and move comfortably towards mid-table. We have been putting In decent performances in the league often this season but conceding sloppy goals and not coming away with 3pts. Better personnel and rotation in those defensive positions slightly improves that. Changing the manager does not help doing that for me.

[spudski]

Regardless of whether players have the ability to be decent Championship players...those players have to be 100% commited every game. They have to be focussed, still have the drive and determination to give their all. The concentration and will.

I've noticed over the past few months, NP has repeatedly commented that certain players aren't commited and 100%. He said it again last night, post match. 

We've all seen the ability in this squad, when they do play well. 

For me...some of our more experienced pros are going through the motions. 

Add that to all the other elements and we end up where we are.

The worry is...our better players will be off in January.

Like the OP I can see a relegation battle this season 

[robinforlife2]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

Regardless of whether players have the ability to be decent Championship players...those players have to be 100% commited every game. They have to be focussed, still have the drive and determination to give their all. The concentration and will.

I've noticed over the past few months, NP has repeatedly commented that certain players aren't commited and 100%. He said it again last night, post match. 

We've all seen the ability in this squad, when they do play well. 

For me...some of our more experienced pros are going through the motions. 

Add that to all the other elements and we end up where we are.

The worry is...our better players will be off in January.

Like the OP I can see a relegation battle this season 

Does that mean they would not be committed with a change of manager though. If anything, that comment alone suggests he has lost the support of his players. 

[Northern Red]

A hell of a lot of words when you could have simply said "I want the manager sacked" and added to the already multiple threads on the subject.

[marcofisher]

10 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Does that mean they would not be committed with a change of manager though. If anything, that comment alone suggests he has lost the support of his players. 

I would suggest that most know they are for the exit door regardless of the manager. 

[spudski]

17 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Does that mean they would not be committed with a change of manager though. If anything, that comment alone suggests he has lost the support of his players. 

Maybe some of them know their time here is up. Or want a change. 

Add that to injuries, depth of squad, loss of form,  quality etc, etc. 

So many different enomolys.

 

 

[OneTeamInBristol]

19 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

A hell of a lot of words when you could have simply said "I want the manager sacked" and added to the already multiple threads on the subject.

You could have simply said 'I don't know that many words'. 

[Davefevs]

Good OP @robinforlife2.

My very simplistic (because I’ve done chapter and verse elsewhere on other occasions) thoughts on the squad are:

if you gave 15(ish) Championship quality players, if you then compare a team with the best 11 (lob off the worst 4) of those 15 to a team with the worst 11 (lob off the best 4), how different do those two teams look.  Considerably!!  And that’s what we are seeing through injury / loss of form…a weakened unit because those 4 that come in aren’t anywhere near the 4 that aren’t available.  Keep the best 4 and perm the 7 from 11 and you get by.

Essentially I’m saying we have a small number in that 15 who can raise the levels of others, but in the sane breath, when those 4/5/6 aren’t players the rest aren’t capable of raising each other.  We can pick off players one at a time and say they’re Champ level (which they are), but it’s who you put them with that makes them.

 

 

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good OP @robinforlife2.

My very simplistic (because I’ve done chapter and verse elsewhere on other occasions) thoughts on the squad are:

if you gave 15(ish) Championship quality players, if you then compare a team with the best 11 (lob off the worst 4) of those 15 to a team with the worst 11 (lob off the best 4), how different do those two teams look.  Considerably!!  And that’s what we are seeing through injury / loss of form…a weakened unit because those 4 that come in aren’t anywhere near the 4 that aren’t available.  Keep the best 4 and perm the 7 from 11 and you get by.

Essentially I’m saying we have a small number in that 15 who can raise the levels of others, but in the sane breath, when those 4/5/6 aren’t players the rest aren’t capable of raising each other.  We can pick off players one at a time and say they’re Champ level (which they are), but it’s who you put them with that makes them.

 

 

 

Good post.  It’s also about the psychology of the team as a unit, and that’s what worries me most at the moment.  Pearson seems unable to change the ‘mood’ of the team, and that’s why I have grave doubts about him.  You cannot simply bully a team into improving.  When the chips are down, I struggle to see Pearson being able to lift the team.  Too many times after poor displays Pearson has seemed to imply that he can’t quite understand the performance.  Why not?  If a manager - in any walk of life - can’t understand why their team are under performing, then they’re not a good manager.

[Sir Geoff]

Not sure how an impartial West Brom fan can comment on our players individually unless he has watched the 10/20 times this season. Pre conceived ideas.. I wouldn't comment on their players as I've only seen them once.

[robinforlife2]

3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Not sure how an impartial West Brom fan can comment on our players individually unless he has watched the 10/20 times this season. Pre conceived ideas.. I wouldn't comment on their players as I've only seen them once.

I don't think it's unrealistic for most fans to know most things about most players from most clubs. A lot of fans keep an eye on a lot of teams and so on. Not everyone only watches City and that's it. He may be an impartial fan but he is also an ex Walsall player and still works with a youth development academy in the midlands. 

[Ziderarmy]

Wasn’t Joe Williams a Johnson signing but injuried for ages? 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Pearsonistheman

[tin]

16 minutes ago, Pearsonistheman said:

Wasn’t Joe Williams a Johnson signing but injuried for ages? 

Holden signed Williams.

[tin]

10 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Very detailed and interesting read. Too many points to deal with individually. But I generally agree with most if not all of them. The crunch comes down to the boards support it not of NP. I like NP and feel he has fine a lot of good esp. Behind the scenes and putting things right after the Ashton **** up.but the team is just not doing it on the pitch and relegation is now a real concern. Lose against Watford. And I do feel NP might be sacked and someone , who has already been sourced, comes In to keep us up. Or they might feel that the WC break gives injured players time and the break gives NP the reset time to finish the season well. Watford now a must win game. Lose and be interesting to see how the board react.

COYR.  Red till I die

I think you’re giving the board too much credit there, Cyril. They have a track record of not having a succession plan going back 20+ years. The last time they got it right, with Cotts, was down to Keith Dawe. 

[Supersonic Robin]

Lot's of points covered there OP, so a few thoughts in response:

• Agree that (when fully fit) this squad should be comfortably good enough to stay up. I've used the phrase "we're good enough to decide our own fate" in reference to this before.
   
• Do we need to consider whether some of our players are perhaps not quite as good as their reputation suggests? Are we sometimes guilty of looking at our players through rose tinted glasses? e.g. Dasilva built a strong reputation within the fanbase in 2018/19, but has been quite poor this season (not necessarily disagreeing with your evaluation of him in particular, just making the general point)
   
• Does Pearson deserve credit for making us consider some of those players decent at this level? Against Sheffield United we started with a back 5 of: Sykes, Tanner, Vyner, Pring, Dasilva (and O'Leary in goal). If I had proposed that back 5/6 to you in Summer, would you have felt confident in it? Would we have said "That's a decent back line at this level"?
   
• Football is of course a team game. Does XI good individuals equate to a good team? IMO it's awkward to make a good starting XI from our squad of decent individuals. In the 3-5-2 we seem a bit weak and wing back, for example. We don't really have wingers, so it's tough to go to any system with wingers. Semenyo, Weimann, Wells, and Conway are all good players, but all want to play through the centre - we can't play them all! etc etc.
   
• I appreciate your concerns about key players leaving, but the loss of Wells, Kalas, Dasilva, and Bentley frees up a huge amount of the wage bill. Equally, the potential sales of players like Scott, Semenyo, and Conway would likely generate a large amount in transfer fees. I don't necessarily want these players to leave, but if they did, we would be much better placed to recruit than we have been in the last few transfer windows.

[Bodiesaffer]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Good OP @robinforlife2.

My very simplistic (because I’ve done chapter and verse elsewhere on other occasions) thoughts on the squad are:

if you gave 15(ish) Championship quality players, if you then compare a team with the best 11 (lob off the worst 4) of those 15 to a team with the worst 11 (lob off the best 4), how different do those two teams look.  Considerably!!  And that’s what we are seeing through injury / loss of form…a weakened unit because those 4 that come in aren’t anywhere near the 4 that aren’t available.  Keep the best 4 and perm the 7 from 11 and you get by.

Essentially I’m saying we have a small number in that 15 who can raise the levels of others, but in the sane breath, when those 4/5/6 aren’t players the rest aren’t capable of raising each other.  We can pick off players one at a time and say they’re Champ level (which they are), but it’s who you put them with that makes them.

 

 

 

Spot on, we are also missing IMO a true leader on the pitch, The Hartley type, Roy Keene figure.

[1960maaan]

Really good post @robinforlife2 , good assessment of the squad and I agree with most of it.

Do I think the team has underperformed, probably, or just played badly. We do have good players, but as @Davefevs said, it's about teams and partnerships. In that respect we have some mitigating circumstances . 
Currently we have been playing 4 full backs in a back 5 due to injuries.
We don't have an available RFB /RWB due to injuries and suspension.
When we have had a couple of injuries, they seem to build up in the same positions, it has impacted on form. That or injuries to important players at important times. Naismith was integral to how we play, but also that vocal player we had been crying out for, for years. 

I agree with a lot of what you say (maybe not the starting back 5  ), but I don't know who I would want if we did get rid of Pearson, and that target is vital. It does feel like a good time to go that route if you are thinking that way, it would give the new man another pre season to bed in. I'm not sure of the timing with the owners though , but a bad defeat Saturday may nudge Lansdown's hand, he definitely wouldn't want to risk relegation. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Lot's of points covered there OP, so a few thoughts in response:

• Agree that (when fully fit) this squad should be comfortably good enough to stay up. I've used the phrase "we're good enough to decide our own fate" in reference to this before.
   
• Do we need to consider whether some of our players are perhaps not quite as good as their reputation suggests? Are we sometimes guilty of looking at our players through rose tinted glasses? e.g. Dasilva built a strong reputation within the fanbase in 2018/19, but has been quite poor this season (not necessarily disagreeing with your evaluation of him in particular, just making the general point)
   
• Does Pearson deserve credit for making us consider some of those players decent at this level? Against Sheffield United we started with a back 5 of: Sykes, Tanner, Vyner, Pring, Dasilva (and O'Leary in goal). If I had proposed that back 5/6 to you in Summer, would you have felt confident in it? Would we have said "That's a decent back line at this level"?
   
• Football is of course a team game. Does XI good individuals equate to a good team? IMO it's awkward to make a good starting XI from our squad of decent individuals. In the 3-5-2 we seem a bit weak and wing back, for example. We don't really have wingers, so it's tough to go to any system with wingers. Semenyo, Weimann, Wells, and Conway are all good players, but all want to play through the centre - we can't play them all! etc etc.
   
• I appreciate your concerns about key players leaving, but the loss of Wells, Kalas, Dasilva, and Bentley frees up a huge amount of the wage bill. Equally, the potential sales of players like Scott, Semenyo, and Conway would likely generate a large amount in transfer fees. I don't necessarily want these players to leave, but if they did, we would be much better placed to recruit than we have been in the last few transfer windows.

Lovely, well articulated post