Who would people want?

[Harry]

16 minutes ago, chinapig said:

How many other clubs are in the kind of dire financial position as us though?

If we scrape through FFP this time it will be because the EFL have accepted our claim to loss of transfer revenue due to Covid. That's a one off that leaves us still needing to make big cuts and/or raise big money through sales that might not be available to spend.

In addition, if SL is looking to sell he may need to reduce the debt well beyond what FFP requires to attract a buyer.

Looks like a hiding to nothing to any experienced manager with options, though perhaps a rookie at this level might feel they have nothing to lose.

Reading and Coventry are currently under embargo. 
In recent seasons we’ve had Birmingham, Derby under certain restrictions. 
The likes of Stoke have had to massively cut costs. 
Preston have confirmed they have little to support Lowe with. 
The likes of Blackpool, Wigan, Rotherham, Luton etc are always gonna be clubs working on a very restricted budget. 
 

Yes, admittedly our FFP situation looks precarious, but we are assured by Gould that we’re not in any trouble and that we still have a mid-table budget. 
We also know that all clubs (outside of parachutes) will be cutting wage bills in the next couple of years, with out of contract players this season expected to get comfortable with potential 20% drop in earnings. 
 

Not many managers would turn us down based on the FFP situation. They’d be under similar constraints at many clubs. 
 

[BUTOR]

If we’re taking about continuing to improve the culture towards a serious Championship side, players and staff laser focused on the task at hand etc, then Edwards and his back room staff from what I know of his time at Forest Green are not the men for the job. A ‘culture’ very much suited to the lower leagues. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

53 minutes ago, Harry said:

Reading and Coventry are currently under embargo. 
In recent seasons we’ve had Birmingham, Derby under certain restrictions. 
The likes of Stoke have had to massively cut costs. 
Preston have confirmed they have little to support Lowe with. 
The likes of Blackpool, Wigan, Rotherham, Luton etc are always gonna be clubs working on a very restricted budget. 
 

Yes, admittedly our FFP situation looks precarious, but we are assured by Gould that we’re not in any trouble and that we still have a mid-table budget. 
We also know that all clubs (outside of parachutes) will be cutting wage bills in the next couple of years, with out of contract players this season expected to get comfortable with potential 20% drop in earnings. 
 

Not many managers would turn us down based on the FFP situation. They’d be under similar constraints at many clubs. 
 

We are one of the worst placed quite frankly.

If Stoke are so terribly placed, why do they have SIX PL loanees plus Alex Neil is reportedly on £1.1m per year there. Gayle is on £20k per week, sacked a manager and Holden...all costs.

Also added permanently players such as Wilmot, Vrancic, Surridge last season plus a loan for Maja from France.

(Having said that I have some very serious questions about their spending and attempts to allocate costs).

I saw Gould say it live and read his words back but it'll need to be some major Covid allowances to see us fine...because using the EFL standard ones combined with a reported £28m loss, I'd estimate an £18m improvement this season in our financial position just to see us level out!!

Luton have actually spent a bit this summer, the other 3 you mentioned all added PL loanees although I take your general point. We are in such a bad place or have been that PL loanees have not really been possible for 2 years.

Remember too, the EFL have the right to review. Gould didn't actually categorically rule out that we would have any issues although we seem quite bullish, wouldn't surprise me if the EFL investigated clubs for some Covid claims at some point...us, Stoke, Fulham, Nottingham Forest all spring to mind.

Coventry's embargo is short term probably, imposed during October due to HMRC issues which can still be rectified by January.

Reading's embargo is more of a soft one that sees them able to sign players only within a certain averaged wage, no transfer fees etc. Of course if Chelsea send Rahman on loan for free that is useful indeed!! Did it with him and Drinkwater last year too.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[LondonBristolian]

I think "who would people want?" focuses on the wrong question. 

I think the key question is "what do we want a new manager to do?" I'd hope the answer would be to continue to develop and support young talent, to develop and get the best out of our existing players rather than tear the squad up from scratch and to build upon the playing style which we've embedded from the first team to the youth team rather than ripping everything up and starting again, plus working within the financial constraints of the club.

Once the board know what they want from a manager, they can then work out if Pearson best meets the criteria or whether they need to make a change and get someone else in. But picking a manager from a list and hoping he fits in at the club without considering the actual job we need them to do is a strategy that deserves to fail. 

[Harry]

47 minutes ago, Bouncearoundtheground said:

If we’re taking about continuing to improve the culture towards a serious Championship side, players and staff laser focused on the task at hand etc, then Edwards and his back room staff from what I know of his time at Forest Green are not the men for the job. A ‘culture’ very much suited to the lower leagues. 

Hiya. 
Tell me more. I’d be keen to understand. 
I watched FGR a lot during Edwards tenure and to get them out of that league was a phenomenal achievement.

But, whilst I enjoyed the football they played, I didn’t really know too much about ‘behind the scenes’ so it would be good to understand what you mean. 
PM me if you’d prefer to keep it off here

[Fuber]

17 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

How on earth are we supposed to know what/who is a realistic option? This is just not within our knowledge and anyone who states that they know what SL can or can't fund is guessing. Obviously the exception is that a hugely successful Premiership Manager ( or similar) is not possible.

Mark Robins may be possible but only SL/the board will know this.

For all those saying City are a basket case clearly haven't been to our stadium or Training centre or are unable to appreciate the work in the Academy. Or the amount of fans who usually turn up and the extra amount who make a showing when we are doing ok to well. We're a goo

19 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

How on earth are we supposed to know what/who is a realistic option? This is just not within our knowledge and anyone who states that they know what SL can or can't fund is guessing. Obviously the exception is that a hugely successful Premiership Manager ( or similar) is not possible.

Mark Robins may be possible but only SL/the board will know this.

For all those saying City are a basket case clearly haven't been to our stadium or Training centre or are unable to appreciate the work in the Academy. Or the amount of fans who usually turn up and the extra amount who make a showing when we are doing ok to well. We're a good club and a quick look at most Championship Clubs will confirm this. Our plight to stick within FFP whilst reducing losses is no different to most clubs who aren't getting PP.

SL has been and is a good owner and has built a solid club with his own personal money. Should he decide it's time for a change then there will be some willing candidates but the rest is entirely speculation. In the case of those maintaining that the only possible man for the job remains Nigel Pearson are delusional.

 

d club and a quick look at most Championship Clubs will confirm this. Our plight to stick within FFP whilst reducing losses is no different to most clubs who aren't getting PP.

SL has been and is a good owner and has built a solid club with his own personal money. Should he decide it's time for a change then there will be some willing candidates but the rest is entirely speculation. In the case of those maintaining that the only possible man for the job remains Nigel Pearson are delusional.

 

I just don't see it M. It's a matter of opinion ultimately, so we may have to respectfully disagree, in this instance at least.

No other club had year on year spending increases that we did relative to turnover under MA (2017-2020) - all singularly down to lack of owner oversight, irrespective of the overall FFP impact on other clubs.

The worst aspect of it, for me, is it's repeating the exact same mistakes of the end of the GJ through O'Driscoll era. The only thing the same now to then is our ownership and complete lack of direction. Cotts (and Burt) worked wonders, right people, right time. Different chairman (god bless Keith Dawe).

Fan numbers while great, ultimately don't have a huge impact (Luton, Brentford, Bournemouth, Watford, QPR).

Training Facilities (which aren't that great in the grander scheme of things) and Academy mean nothing, unless they save us from a relegation battle short term - which hasnt worked so far, nor the past 18 months. The latter will likely just help bring us back to financial stability (i.e. if we sell Scott), and it's not to dissimilar to some other clubs' output (Reading, Blackburn, Norwich, West Brom). Its more where our Academy output previously (pre Bryan/Reid) was completely woeful, by comparison, so at least the increase in output in itself is fantastic, however - we were playing catch-up in the first instance.

There is one word that describes our clubs ownership.

Amateurish.

There are clubs worse than us, i.e. Reading and Huddersfield among others, but plenty more are better run from an FFP and ownership standpoint taking into account clubs size and consistency (Preston, Luton, Blackburn, QPR, Swansea, Millwall, etc).

[CliftonCliff]

1 hour ago, maxjak said:

 fresh ideas from a young ambitious manager, looking to make a name for himself?  

Sounds exactly like a description of Lee Johnson at the time of his appointment here.

That's a neutral observation, by the way, not a dig. Whether you consider that subsequently went well or not is a matter of personal opinion.

Just pointing out that all approaches have their pitfalls and none are assured of success. Promising, young manager or coach whose career is in the ascendancy (been there, done that), or senior man of experience who is available and realistically likely to consider taking it on (which is what you've currently got).

You can make a case for either. What you can't make a case for is lurching from one to the other, which is what you do if you're hell bent on terminally screwing up the club. I'll leave it to others to provide examples of the latter scenario - God knows there are plenty of them out there.

 

[Rob k]

4 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Duff, Edwards or Critchley. 

If we're screwed, may as well carry on future planning with a younger coach. 

All three are pretty good. Wouldn't be unhappy with any of them

All 3 would need the club to change how we operate currently 

[robinforlife2]

Currently 70 voters want Pearson to stay, 107 want him to be replaced. A very small sample of fans, but does suggest that there is equally as much desire for twisting, as there is for sticking. 

[LondonBristolian]

18 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Currently 70 voters want Pearson to stay, 107 want him to be replaced. A very small sample of fans, but does suggest that there is equally as much desire for twisting, as there is for sticking. 

I imagine it might not be representative. Surely logic dictates that people who want a change of manager are more likely to respond? 

[tin]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We are one of the worst placed quite frankly.

If Stoke are so terribly placed, why do they have SIX PL loanees plus Alex Neil is reportedly on £1.1m per year there. Gayle is on £20k per week, sacked a manager and Holden...all costs.

Also added permanently players such as Wilmot, Vrancic, Surridge last season plus a loan for Maja from France.

(Having said that I have some very serious questions about their spending and attempts to allocate costs).

I saw Gould say it live and read his words back but it'll need to be some major Covid allowances to see us fine...because using the EFL standard ones combined with a reported £28m loss, I'd estimate an £18m improvement this season in our financial position just to see us level out!!

Luton have actually spent a bit this summer, the other 3 you mentioned all added PL loanees although I take your general point. We are in such a bad place or have been that PL loanees have not really been possible for 2 years.

Remember too, the EFL have the right to review. Gould didn't actually categorically rule out that we would have any issues although we seem quite bullish, wouldn't surprise me if the EFL investigated clubs for some Covid claims at some point...us, Stoke, Fulham, Nottingham Forest all spring to mind.

Coventry's embargo is short term probably, imposed during October due to HMRC issues which can still be rectified by January.

Reading's embargo is more of a soft one that sees them able to sign players only within a certain averaged wage, no transfer fees etc. Of course if Chelsea send Rahman on loan for free that is useful indeed!! Did it with him and Drinkwater last year too.

You beat me to it about Neil at Stoke. I was speaking to a Mackam recently who said Sunderland made Neil two contract offers to stop him going to Stoke, the latter would’ve made him the second highest paid manager in the league. So your figure ties in with that. 

Stoke’s financial position was hugely helped by the timely sale of Nathan Collins to Burnley for £12m, and probably a sell-on percentage from his subsequent sale to Wolves for £20m. The business they’ve done shows they’re in a better position than us. 

[steviestevieneville]

5 hours ago, i_am_red said:

Neil Critchley?

That’s a decent & realistic shout . 
fans have to remember where we are financially . If Pearson did go then gerrard , wilder, lijers are pie in the sky . Plus if Scott Parker was given the job then that would be a disaster . With todays announcement about tins being technical director then I don’t think nige is going anywhere soon 

[maxjak]

35 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Currently 70 voters want Pearson to stay, 107 want him to be replaced. A very small sample of fans, but does suggest that there is equally as much desire for twisting, as there is for sticking. 

Every respondent is, of course entitled to their opinion............but the fact that 14 people wish to replace NP with Warlock genuinely fills me with despair.  It's like replacing a T Rex with a Velociraptor.....?             We need fresh ideas from a forward looking young coach, and not an old school ageing behemoth   hanging on for one last payday?  There is nothing wrong with age and experience, but i believe we are in need of some fresh original ideas and coaching from someone who is forward thinking..........and not,  yet another multiple club     custodian, fresh off of the latest manager merry-go-round?

Edited November 9, 2022 by maxjak

[Top Robin]

6 hours ago, RUSSEL85 said:

sigh, uhh Wilder is probably best of the bunch but as he wont get money for signings probably a bad idea. Rob Edwards may be a shout.

Some managers actually have the ability to improve the players and team without having to buy...it's call proper coaching and motivation.

[Mr Popodopolous]

28 minutes ago, tin said:

You beat me to it about Neil at Stoke. I was speaking to a Mackam recently who said Sunderland made Neil two contract offers to stop him going to Stoke, the latter would’ve made him the second highest paid manager in the league. So your figure ties in with that. 

Stoke’s financial position was hugely helped by the timely sale of Nathan Collins to Burnley for £12m, and probably a sell-on percentage from his subsequent sale to Wolves for £20m. The business they’ve done shows they’re in a better position than us. 

£12m profit yes, but that was in 1 year only.

They had a total wage bill of £50m in 2020-21 for example, that being the final year of Parachute Payments.

Worth noting that they sold the Stadium and Training Ground for a profit of £32m that season (2020-21) as well as seeking to allocate significant Covid costs..

For all that, despite a) Year 3 of Parachute Payments contributing to a Turnover of £40m, b) That £32m profit on disposal  c) Receipt of £2.5m of Business Interruption Insurance...

...They STILL posted a pre tax loss of £9-10m!?

Unless we are to believe that they truly cut wages by £20-25m in 2021-22...we've been unable to do anything of the sort as a %.

Seems to me that the two clubs have received very different treatment on the face of it.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

57 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Currently 70 voters want Pearson to stay, 107 want him to be replaced. A very small sample of fans, but does suggest that there is equally as much desire for twisting, as there is for sticking. 

60% voting for a change and 40% is not equal .

However, OTIB has proved on a number of occasions that being such a small % of fans -it is not always representative. Votes from 200 people - some of whom may well live abroad or for whatever reason don't or can't be active supporters- is not really anything more than a bit of fun.

A poll for season ticket holders would be the litmus test but still largely irrelevant because 1 man decides not 15000 supporters.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Financials aside, I voted to keep Pearson.

It's a bloody tough job, think his experience will see us through the storm.

[One Team]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

60% voting for a change and 40% is not equal .

However, OTIB has proved on a number of occasions that being such a small % of fans -it is not always representative. Votes from 200 people - some of whom may well live abroad or for whatever reason don't or can't be active supporters- is not really anything more than a bit of fun.

A poll for season ticket holders would be the litmus test but still largely irrelevant because 1 man decides not 15000 supporters.

Completely agree. Quite a lot of City fans I know aren’t on this forum and barely even know of it’s existence and I am sure the same is true for many of you.

Whatever the thoughts and views are of people on here it’s a very, very small percentage of our overall supporters. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by One Team

[YGBjammy]

8 hours ago, billywedlock said:

One day we will change manager, of course. But this moment , right now, we are not yet through the reset and rebuild phase, we are another 6 months away from point where we can reset. That might then be a point where the club and Nige reflect. Does he want to follow that rebuild through (12/13 players out of contract, all the big earners gone, some salary space to sign a balanced squad) , in that case he also has to commit going forward, or the club takes a new direction, having got through a financial melt down, and put in place the basis for the next steps and cleared out and set up the club for a more professional and financially viable future. Now is most certainly not the time to be playing with fire and the managerial lottery game. We are simply not in the position to attract the next coach the club needs whilst we have the squad issues we have. As I say, next summer is a conversation. If Nige has kept us in the Championship these three seasons, halved the wage bill , unloaded all the dead weights and over paid players, and set the club up with a strong youth development link , some great youth players with great potential, an off the field structure that has an idea of what the Prem might look like, he will have done an exceptional job, and saved us from a L1 total melt down. (which would have been our historical result). But Nige may or may not want to carry on, who knows. Then and only then can you start to attract a coach/manager of quality. But it should also be recalled, that new FFP and maybe new owners will not be funding £20m to £40 m losses, the new football reality will see dramatically lower wages being paid, few if any transfer fees and a very different future (IMHO for the better) for Championship teams. So there will be no big spending sprees to get to the Prem, it will be all about exceptional scouting and recruitment and exceptional youth development. 

This is the correct answer.

[ZumerZetSmithy]

Lauren Smith for me 

[Guest]

Lets be fair about this NP is here for the money/contract as there was nothing better at the time; he will be gone sometime and soon if his boys dont start bagging some points.

As for the next manager if SL is picking him expect no improvements, Leopard and spots come to mind, so whoever from the list matters not we dont count.

Edited November 9, 2022 by gl2

[ScottishRed]

5 minutes ago, gl2 said:

Lets be fair about this NP is here for the money/contract as there was nothing better at the time; he will be gone sometime and soon if his boys dont start bagging some points.

As for the next manager if SL is picking him expect no improvements, Leopard and spots come to mind, so whoever from the list matters not we dont count.

With the career NP has had I am absolutely certain he does not need to worry about where his next square meal is coming from.

I suspect, if Saturday does not go well he will walk away of his own volition without any payout.

[Maltshoveller]

Duncan Furguson  

Duncan Furguson  

[Rocking Red Cyril]

14 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Missing Emma Hayes 

Interesting

[Rocking Red Cyril]

4 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

With the career NP has had I am absolutely certain he does not need to worry about where his next square meal is coming from.

I suspect, if Saturday does not go well he will walk away of his own volition without any payout.

I just don't see NP walking away from the challenge

I could be wrong and he might. But that would imply to me that SL is not offering the support NP feels he needs 

Which would be worrying for the incoming manager 

[jj77]

Marcelo Bielsa

[soultrader]

23 hours ago, archie andrews said:

Hate to say it but warnock to give em a kick up the arse... 

I think maybe just need Warnock on matchday .... 

[soultrader]

22 hours ago, grifty said:

I voted for Eidevall cos I’ve never heard of him.

The Scrabble candidate

[Curr Avon]

What won't happen because Pearson is staying. But let's have some fun with wordplay.

Lansdown: We've conducted an extensive search, but of our top targets:

Chris, was even Wilder (than anticipated).

Sean, said on your Dyche.

And Ralf Hasn'tootled.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Curr Avon

[robinforlife2]

147 Out, 102 In

The outs still currently have it.