Forget Bomb Alley - introducing the WTAF Zone

[Davefevs]

Watching the game on Tuesday night, my first thought before they scored their opening goal was, OMG that’s a really bad press by Semenyo on their keeper. @Harry here is what I referred to on the WhatsApp group.

Nige has talked quite a bit recently about how to defend when we have the ball, and how good defenders are worth their weight in gold because they are switched on, anticipating having to defend if we lose the ball.  This goal epitomises it.  It’s effing awful.  The fact that Nige has talked about this, makes me pretty confident he’s not coaching us (nor are Flem and Euell either) to defend like this, his acute awareness of this proven by coming out and telling us in media interviews.

pic 1, Lincoln RCB3 under pressure from Martin goes back to keeper.  Semenyo looks to press keeper.  First question, who is marking the CM and LCB3?  Maybe they’re just out of picture, in-touch, ready to pounce!

Pic2 - ball almost with keeper.  Martin turning to split RCB3 and CB3.  Semenyo continues towards the keeper, rather than blocking passing lanes to either Lincoln player.  Maybe there are players out of picture?

Pic3 - introducing the WTAF zone!  The keeper has passed to CM who’s come short to receive.  Where are City’s players.  Oooh, look there’s Weimann on their other CM, bottom right of pic.  How can there be that much space?

Pic 4 - midfielder moves forward into 20 acres of space (more like 43 acres ).  Sykes no man’s land, King, no man’s land.  Kadji doing nothing.  Long ball about to be launched, although they could be easily built through the LWB too.

Pic 5 - ball on its way (yellow circled).

My questions, why didn’t Sykes go the LWB and everyone else move across one man, Low to the receiver, Klose to Low’s man, Atkinson to Klose’s?  Atkinson impacts nothing where he is.

Or alternatively, King engages the CM and Sykes covers the left winger / receiver?  Although this leaves Kadji on his own, albeit he’s marking nothing.

We weren’t caught in transition, so no reason why we should be so out of shape, not close to men.

Very, very bad.

 

 

[Clutton Caveman]

11 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Like that post Dave, wasnt that similar around transition discussions held towards the end of last season. 

Cm dropping back to cb and then being a wtaf zone.  Leaving gaps. 

I'm presuming someone was meant to be somewhere in that transition, but either, forgot, got dragged, lost concentration or was told different from sidelines. 

 

What do you think?? 

I think Antoine plays on instinct and is not the most football intelligent player. This makes him very hard to coach to a system. When Conway or Wiemann close down you can see they are checking the angles and calling others into the gaps

[spudski]

43 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Watching the game on Tuesday night, my first thought before they scored their opening goal was, OMG that’s a really bad press by Semenyo on their keeper. @Harry here is what I referred to on the WhatsApp group.

Nige has talked quite a bit recently about how to defend when we have the ball, and how good defenders are worth their weight in gold because they are switched on, anticipating having to defend if we lose the ball.  This goal epitomises it.  It’s effing awful.  The fact that Nige has talked about this, makes me pretty confident he’s not coaching us (nor are Flem and Euell either) to defend like this, his acute awareness of this proven by coming out and telling us in media interviews.

pic 1, Lincoln RCB3 under pressure from Martin goes back to keeper.  Semenyo looks to press keeper.  First question, who is marking the CM and LCB3?  Maybe they’re just out of picture, in-touch, ready to pounce!

Pic2 - ball almost with keeper.  Martin turning to split RCB3 and CB3.  Semenyo continues towards the keeper, rather than blocking passing lanes to either Lincoln player.  Maybe there are players out of picture?

Pic3 - introducing the WTAF zone!  The keeper has passed to CM who’s come short to receive.  Where are City’s players.  Oooh, look there’s Weimann on their other CM, bottom right of pic.  How can there be that much space?

Pic 4 - midfielder moves forward into 20 acres of space (more like 43 acres ).  Sykes no man’s land, King, no man’s land.  Kadji doing nothing.  Long ball about to be launched, although they could be easily built through the LWB too.

Pic 5 - ball on its way (yellow circled).

My questions, why didn’t Sykes go the LWB and everyone else move across one man, Low to the receiver, Klose to Low’s man, Atkinson to Klose’s?  Atkinson impacts nothing where he is.

Or alternatively, King engages the CM and Sykes covers the left winger / receiver?  Although this leaves Kadji on his own, albeit he’s marking nothing.

We weren’t caught in transition, so no reason why we should be so out of shape, not close to men.

Very, very bad.

 

 

You read my mind. I'm glad you've taken time to show this. At the time I watched it...I had to watch it back a few times, as I couldn't believe what I was seeing.  My head was like Wtff. 

Semenyo made the press...but no press on the available defenders. 

Truly shocking. Basic.

[Red-Robbo]

49 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Watching the game on Tuesday night, my first thought before they scored their opening goal was, OMG that’s a really bad press by Semenyo on their keeper. @Harry here is what I referred to on the WhatsApp group.

Nige has talked quite a bit recently about how to defend when we have the ball, and how good defenders are worth their weight in gold because they are switched on, anticipating having to defend if we lose the ball.  This goal epitomises it.  It’s effing awful.  The fact that Nige has talked about this, makes me pretty confident he’s not coaching us (nor are Flem and Euell either) to defend like this, his acute awareness of this proven by coming out and telling us in media interviews.

pic 1, Lincoln RCB3 under pressure from Martin goes back to keeper.  Semenyo looks to press keeper.  First question, who is marking the CM and LCB3?  Maybe they’re just out of picture, in-touch, ready to pounce!

Pic2 - ball almost with keeper.  Martin turning to split RCB3 and CB3.  Semenyo continues towards the keeper, rather than blocking passing lanes to either Lincoln player.  Maybe there are players out of picture?

Pic3 - introducing the WTAF zone!  The keeper has passed to CM who’s come short to receive.  Where are City’s players.  Oooh, look there’s Weimann on their other CM, bottom right of pic.  How can there be that much space?

Pic 4 - midfielder moves forward into 20 acres of space (more like 43 acres ).  Sykes no man’s land, King, no man’s land.  Kadji doing nothing.  Long ball about to be launched, although they could be easily built through the LWB too.

Pic 5 - ball on its way (yellow circled).

My questions, why didn’t Sykes go the LWB and everyone else move across one man, Low to the receiver, Klose to Low’s man, Atkinson to Klose’s?  Atkinson impacts nothing where he is.

Or alternatively, King engages the CM and Sykes covers the left winger / receiver?  Although this leaves Kadji on his own, albeit he’s marking nothing.

We weren’t caught in transition, so no reason why we should be so out of shape, not close to men.

Very, very bad.

 

 

 

Brings back bad memories of the worst of the LJ days with wide-open spaces opening in the centre of midfield for opponents to run through (and be at speed and hard to defend against once they reached our back line) or pick a pass to a forward ready to leave our defensive player for dead.

That WTAF zone is a veritable prairie, full of promise for any opponent. 

[IAmNick]

What caused it though?

Did Semenyo try and press at a bad time as nobody was ready, so the midfield reacted to try and help him but much too slowly so got stuck halfway? I wonder where they were as he started to close down the keeper - with their men, or just stranded in the middle as in your pics? In that case I guess they have to just let him charge down the keeper mostly pointlessly - a waste of energy really.

I think to press effectively actually takes a lot of awareness about when to do it or not - and doing it at the wrong time or half doing it can be hugely detrimental. It's one of the things we got right in that 17/18 season.

[Sheltons Army]

53 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Watching the game on Tuesday night, my first thought before they scored their opening goal was, OMG that’s a really bad press by Semenyo on their keeper. @Harry here is what I referred to on the WhatsApp group.

Nige has talked quite a bit recently about how to defend when we have the ball, and how good defenders are worth their weight in gold because they are switched on, anticipating having to defend if we lose the ball.  This goal epitomises it.  It’s effing awful.  The fact that Nige has talked about this, makes me pretty confident he’s not coaching us (nor are Flem and Euell either) to defend like this, his acute awareness of this proven by coming out and telling us in media interviews.

pic 1, Lincoln RCB3 under pressure from Martin goes back to keeper.  Semenyo looks to press keeper.  First question, who is marking the CM and LCB3?  Maybe they’re just out of picture, in-touch, ready to pounce!

Pic2 - ball almost with keeper.  Martin turning to split RCB3 and CB3.  Semenyo continues towards the keeper, rather than blocking passing lanes to either Lincoln player.  Maybe there are players out of picture?

Pic3 - introducing the WTAF zone!  The keeper has passed to CM who’s come short to receive.  Where are City’s players.  Oooh, look there’s Weimann on their other CM, bottom right of pic.  How can there be that much space?

Pic 4 - midfielder moves forward into 20 acres of space (more like 43 acres ).  Sykes no man’s land, King, no man’s land.  Kadji doing nothing.  Long ball about to be launched, although they could be easily built through the LWB too.

Pic 5 - ball on its way (yellow circled).

My questions, why didn’t Sykes go the LWB and everyone else move across one man, Low to the receiver, Klose to Low’s man, Atkinson to Klose’s?  Atkinson impacts nothing where he is.

Or alternatively, King engages the CM and Sykes covers the left winger / receiver?  Although this leaves Kadji on his own, albeit he’s marking nothing.

We weren’t caught in transition, so no reason why we should be so out of shape, not close to men.

Very, very bad.

 

 

Cracking bit of analysis there DF and beautifully critiqued

Did you see them highlight Jesus’s pressing in a game the other day ?  , - with his body shape and positioning , how he forced the centre half , to play to a player already in the process of being hunted down - excellent polar opposite 

 

[HappyClapper]

I’m guessing that this is the sort of stuff that Pearson is talking about when he says there are players he can’t trust. With our key players on the pitch these gaps would not be allowed to happen.

It frustrates me when people look at these kind of things and draw the conclusion that we are poorly coached. There is no way the players are being coached to perform like this, or to take up those positions.

Ultimately, we need 4/5 solid consistent championship players to supplement the squad. Impossible without player trading, which means losing one of the Crown Jewels.

If we can get through to the summer, there is a big opportunity to reshape the squad. As Gould and Pearson mentioned at the FF, we are predominantly looking at OOC players. I would be happy to move most of ours on.
 

I know many have got to the end of the road with Nige, but I’m sticking with him for now. I hope that players coming back after the WC will make a difference. (Especially Naismith, Kalas and Benarous) and we can improve our form. That may reduce the blood pressure of some my favourite bedwetters, so they can at least look forward to 2023.

[Son of Fred]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Watching the game on Tuesday night, my first thought before they scored their opening goal was, OMG that’s a really bad press by Semenyo on their keeper. @Harry here is what I referred to on the WhatsApp group.

Nige has talked quite a bit recently about how to defend when we have the ball, and how good defenders are worth their weight in gold because they are switched on, anticipating having to defend if we lose the ball.  This goal epitomises it.  It’s effing awful.  The fact that Nige has talked about this, makes me pretty confident he’s not coaching us (nor are Flem and Euell either) to defend like this, his acute awareness of this proven by coming out and telling us in media interviews.

pic 1, Lincoln RCB3 under pressure from Martin goes back to keeper.  Semenyo looks to press keeper.  First question, who is marking the CM and LCB3?  Maybe they’re just out of picture, in-touch, ready to pounce!

Pic2 - ball almost with keeper.  Martin turning to split RCB3 and CB3.  Semenyo continues towards the keeper, rather than blocking passing lanes to either Lincoln player.  Maybe there are players out of picture?

Pic3 - introducing the WTAF zone!  The keeper has passed to CM who’s come short to receive.  Where are City’s players.  Oooh, look there’s Weimann on their other CM, bottom right of pic.  How can there be that much space?

Pic 4 - midfielder moves forward into 20 acres of space (more like 43 acres ).  Sykes no man’s land, King, no man’s land.  Kadji doing nothing.  Long ball about to be launched, although they could be easily built through the LWB too.

Pic 5 - ball on its way (yellow circled).

My questions, why didn’t Sykes go the LWB and everyone else move across one man, Low to the receiver, Klose to Low’s man, Atkinson to Klose’s?  Atkinson impacts nothing where he is.

Or alternatively, King engages the CM and Sykes covers the left winger / receiver?  Although this leaves Kadji on his own, albeit he’s marking nothing.

We weren’t caught in transition, so no reason why we should be so out of shape, not close to men.

Very, very bad.

 

 

Abridged version.

 

Our players are as thick as mince.

[Son of Fred]

13 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Cracking bit of analysis there DF and beautifully critiqued

Did you see them highlight Jesus’s pressing in a game the other day ?  , - with his body shape and positioning , how he forced the centre half , to play to a player already in the process of being hunted down - excellent polar opposite 

 

It's all very well,,but having Jesus in your side is bloody cheating.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Son of Fred said:

It's all very well,,but having Jesus in your side is bloody cheating.

Team full of disciples too

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I think Antoine plays on instinct and is not the most football intelligent player. This makes him very hard to coach to a system. When Conway or Wiemann close down you can see they are checking the angles and calling others into the gaps

Hold that though, see my latest thread!

21 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Brings back bad memories of the worst of the LJ days with wide-open spaces opening in the centre of midfield for opponents to run through (and be at speed and hard to defend against once they reached our back line) or pick a pass to a forward ready to leave our defensive player for dead.

That WTAF zone is a veritable prairie, full of promise for any opponent. 

I’m trade-marking it!

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

What caused it though?

Did Semenyo try and press at a bad time as nobody was ready, so the midfield reacted to try and help him but much too slowly so got stuck halfway? I wonder where they were as he started to close down the keeper - with their men, or just stranded in the middle as in your pics? In that case I guess they have to just let him charge down the keeper mostly pointlessly - a waste of energy really.

I think to press effectively actually takes a lot of awareness about when to do it or not - and doing it at the wrong time or half doing it can be hugely detrimental. It's one of the things we got right in that 17/18 season.

Ultimately a combo of several things…but stem from communication, anticipation and positioning, by several “culprits”.  Shit happens.  That was shit

18 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Cracking bit of analysis there DF and beautifully critiqued

Did you see them highlight Jesus’s pressing in a game the other day ?  , - with his body shape and positioning , how he forced the centre half , to play to a player already in the process of being hunted down - excellent polar opposite 

 

I didn’t.  I remember watching Grabban a few seasons back be the master at communicating through his body position where he was gonna force his opponent CB to go…so his teammates could take the lead.  Reid and Pato were obviously good too…but we also played a much more condensed system too in that 17/18 utopian period!

[GrahamC]

20 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Cracking bit of analysis there DF and beautifully critiqued

Did you see them highlight Jesus’s pressing in a game the other day ?  , - with his body shape and positioning , how he forced the centre half , to play to a player already in the process of being hunted down - excellent polar opposite 

 

Different player but Matty James does this (a lot) makes his opponent go away from goal or a dangerous area by the way he positions his body.

Not popular with some on here but we bloody miss him when he doesn’t play.

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, HappyClapper said:

It frustrates me when people look at these kind of things and draw the conclusion that we are poorly coached. There is no way the players are being coached to perform like this, or to take up those positions.

Correct, see my latest thread.

[spudski]

You can watch it in real time at the very beginning of this link.

 

[Midred]

I know that there's very little similarity between us and Liverpool club - wise  but watching them this season they're very busy going forward with not always much result but as soon as the ball goes to the opposition they just seem so wide open whoever they're playing!

For some reason my son watches Liverpool every week  on sky and several time during the match I'm saying "this is just like watching city!"

[Gimme Shelton]

I'm wondering how we can work this around so that it's Chris Martin's fault,I'm sure some are!

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Midred said:

I know that there's very little similarity between us and Liverpool club - wise  but watching them this season they're very busy going forward with not always much result but as soon as the ball goes to the opposition they just seem so wide open whoever they're playing!

For some reason my son watches Liverpool every week  on sky and several time during the match I'm saying "this is just like watching city!"

The signs were there last season with Liverpool.  They’ve been sussed a bit, but also transitioning from Salah, Firmino and Mane has not been as seamless due to the likes of Jota being injured.  But teams just hit balls in behind the high full-backs.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Davefevs

[Merrick's Marvels]

Semenyo needs to understand the goals he scored last season by charging down the keeper were flukes. 

They haven't done him any favours.

Chasing after the ball just makes him look like a headless chicken, especially when the opposition have an easy pass to get beyond him. Even L1 defenders can manage that, as demonstrated by Lincoln's first goal. 

He needs to understand pressing starts with blocking off passing options and channels. That's how you apply pressure to a defender or keeper with the ball at his feet - give them nowhere to go.

Once they're under pressure and not sure what to do, then go after the ball while your team-mates support you in a co-ordinated fashion. That's how you force mistakes and win the ball back.

Amateur hour all round for that Lincoln goal.  

Edited November 11, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[chinapig]

44 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The signs were there last season with Liverpool.  They’ve been sussed a bit, but also transitioning from Salah, Firmino and Mane has not been as seamless due to the likes of Jota being injured.  But teams just hit balls in behind the high full-backs.

Everybody knew their full backs played very high but haven't been able to exploit that before.

There are other factors I think, starting with the loss of the underappreciated Wijnaldum.

Fabinho and Henderson are past their peak - smart clubs replace players before they reach that point. Or ideally recruit their replacements in advance. Lots of Liverpool fans were saying they needed to sign 2 midfielders last summer in fact.

I'm also not convinced Thiago suits their approach, gifted player though he is. A bit like Veron at Man Utd, a world class player who just didn't quite fit.

[maxjak]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Watching the game on Tuesday night, my first thought before they scored their opening goal was, OMG that’s a really bad press by Semenyo on their keeper. @Harry here is what I referred to on the WhatsApp group.

Nige has talked quite a bit recently about how to defend when we have the ball, and how good defenders are worth their weight in gold because they are switched on, anticipating having to defend if we lose the ball.  This goal epitomises it.  It’s effing awful.  The fact that Nige has talked about this, makes me pretty confident he’s not coaching us (nor are Flem and Euell either) to defend like this, his acute awareness of this proven by coming out and telling us in media interviews.

pic 1, Lincoln RCB3 under pressure from Martin goes back to keeper.  Semenyo looks to press keeper.  First question, who is marking the CM and LCB3?  Maybe they’re just out of picture, in-touch, ready to pounce!

Pic2 - ball almost with keeper.  Martin turning to split RCB3 and CB3.  Semenyo continues towards the keeper, rather than blocking passing lanes to either Lincoln player.  Maybe there are players out of picture?

Pic3 - introducing the WTAF zone!  The keeper has passed to CM who’s come short to receive.  Where are City’s players.  Oooh, look there’s Weimann on their other CM, bottom right of pic.  How can there be that much space?

Pic 4 - midfielder moves forward into 20 acres of space (more like 43 acres ).  Sykes no man’s land, King, no man’s land.  Kadji doing nothing.  Long ball about to be launched, although they could be easily built through the LWB too.

Pic 5 - ball on its way (yellow circled).

My questions, why didn’t Sykes go the LWB and everyone else move across one man, Low to the receiver, Klose to Low’s man, Atkinson to Klose’s?  Atkinson impacts nothing where he is.

Or alternatively, King engages the CM and Sykes covers the left winger / receiver?  Although this leaves Kadji on his own, albeit he’s marking nothing.

We weren’t caught in transition, so no reason why we should be so out of shape, not close to men.

Very, very bad.

 

 

C'mon Dave.....we all know that Pearson doesn't coach, he manages?   He leaves all the coaching to his trusted lieutenants, Jay and Flem?   Very well observed and thorough analysis though......(And Frightening...Ha!)

[eardun]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Watching the game on Tuesday night, my first thought before they scored their opening goal was, OMG that’s a really bad press by Semenyo on their keeper. @Harry here is what I referred to on the WhatsApp group.

Nige has talked quite a bit recently about how to defend when we have the ball, and how good defenders are worth their weight in gold because they are switched on, anticipating having to defend if we lose the ball.  This goal epitomises it.  It’s effing awful.  The fact that Nige has talked about this, makes me pretty confident he’s not coaching us (nor are Flem and Euell either) to defend like this, his acute awareness of this proven by coming out and telling us in media interviews.

pic 1, Lincoln RCB3 under pressure from Martin goes back to keeper.  Semenyo looks to press keeper.  First question, who is marking the CM and LCB3?  Maybe they’re just out of picture, in-touch, ready to pounce!

Pic2 - ball almost with keeper.  Martin turning to split RCB3 and CB3.  Semenyo continues towards the keeper, rather than blocking passing lanes to either Lincoln player.  Maybe there are players out of picture?

Pic3 - introducing the WTAF zone!  The keeper has passed to CM who’s come short to receive.  Where are City’s players.  Oooh, look there’s Weimann on their other CM, bottom right of pic.  How can there be that much space?

Pic 4 - midfielder moves forward into 20 acres of space (more like 43 acres ).  Sykes no man’s land, King, no man’s land.  Kadji doing nothing.  Long ball about to be launched, although they could be easily built through the LWB too.

Pic 5 - ball on its way (yellow circled).

My questions, why didn’t Sykes go the LWB and everyone else move across one man, Low to the receiver, Klose to Low’s man, Atkinson to Klose’s?  Atkinson impacts nothing where he is.

Or alternatively, King engages the CM and Sykes covers the left winger / receiver?  Although this leaves Kadji on his own, albeit he’s marking nothing.

We weren’t caught in transition, so no reason why we should be so out of shape, not close to men.

Very, very bad.

 

 

I think this also shows why Pearson said he was disappointed that other players didn’t support Low. Lincoln had a field day down our  right hand side in the first half.