Lee Johnson

[Riaz]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That was a huge factor in his sacking. That irritated SL immensely and when SC went the him asking for money to buy a striker that was the coup de grace 

Nah. He was sacked for far worse than that 

[Simpleton Gas]

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

Finally some sense.

We we’re newly promoted and Cotts was going for some totally unrealistic players 

Should have put a bid in for Messi after Dwight Gayle - as much chance of that happening. 

You'd almost be forgiven for thinking he pursued Gayle and Gray as some sort of perverse and audacious PR stunt...that, or an unexpected blow to the head. 

[MarcusX]

14 hours ago, ChrisBW said:

What was good about his management? 

At the very least give him credit for an impressive cup run culminating in one of the biggest upsets in our history, and going toe to toe over 2 legs with one of the best teams in the world.

[Simpleton Gas]

1 minute ago, Riaz said:

Nah. He was sacked for far worse than that 

Having to be pulled back from leaping into the crowd and attacking one of the club's (many) brain-dead fans was bad enough...like the village idiot at a particularly angry farmers' convention. 

[Super]

Christ haven't we done this many many times now?!

[ChrisBW]

11 hours ago, Riaz said:

If he was out of his depth…

How did he take a woeful team  ijn the relegation zone and move us up the table in his first season? 
 

And then establish us as top half side?

Because he had a load of mid table and some top end championship players. 

[MarcusX]

13 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

 in what way did the most overrated city player in years prove he was leagues above LJ? He has barely played in the Prem if that's what you mean

Almost ever present in a play off reaching and then league winning Championship side, ever present in their first season up and over 90 games in 3 seasons, plus made captain fairly often.

How is that “barely played”?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Riaz said:

Kodjia was refusing to play

See point b)

 

2 hours ago, Riaz said:

Again, the club kept selling our best players. 

it’s funny isn’t it….you haven’t yet worked out that if you have losses as big as ours and you spend all your money you get from transfers (and more) on:

- transfer fees

- agent fees

- signing on fees

- wages

- loan fees

etc

you end up losing more money.

You can quote “net spend”, it’s ultimately horse shit as a true measurement of success.  Not forgetting SELL-ONs to the likes of Ipswich and Preston for Webster and Brownhill.

Sell one good player, maybe buy one replacement and one project (total two players), I’m absolutely fine with. And keep some money left over.  That’s what the good recruiting teams do.  They have succession planning built-in.

We, sorry, “they” sold a couple and brought in dozens.

Thats why you have to keep selling.

TO BALANCE THE BOOKS.

If you recruit effectively / efficiently you retain a bit of control.  You’ll never stop a Webster or a Scott going though.

Another spreadsheet:

We made £21m transfer profit from the sales of:

 

maybe Webster sell-on to Ipswich wasn’t as high but you’re splitting hairs there.

and then spent over £25m on PLUS THE INCREASED WAGE-BILL on:

not forgetting the costs of these loans:

 

if you think Afobe and Pereira came on loan to us for a contribution of their wages, you’re very naive.

To repeat, that’s why you have to sell players.  Shit, scattergun recruitment, loading cost into the club for limited value on the pitch.

I don’t disagree the likes of Brownhill and Webster developed whilst they were here.  Credit to LJ, BUT also credit to them too, their age / phase of development played a part too.  But by the same token, how many players didn’t develop at all.  You can cherry-pick your examples without giving a balanced view.

Does what I’ve posted paint a more rounded view???

 

[Riaz]

10 minutes ago, ChrisBW said:

Because he had a load of mid table and some top end championship players. 

We were in the relegation zone. the players he had weren’t mid table or top end players at that time. Otherwise we wouldn’t be down there 

[cidercity1987]

8 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Almost ever present in a play off reaching and then league winning Championship side, ever present in their first season up and over 90 games in 3 seasons, plus made captain fairly often.

How is that “barely played”?

You're as guilty as me at not reading the thread

I thought it was ref Freeman

[Riaz]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

See point b)

 

it’s funny isn’t it….you haven’t yet worked out that if you have losses as big as ours and you spend all your money you get from transfers (and more) on:

- transfer fees

- agent fees

- signing on fees

- wages

- loan fees

etc

you end up losing more money.

You can quote “net spend”, it’s ultimately horse shit as a true measurement of success.  Not forgetting SELL-ONs to the likes of Ipswich and Preston for Webster and Brownhill.

Sell one good player, maybe buy one replacement and one project (total two players), I’m absolutely fine with. And keep some money left over.  That’s what the good recruiting teams do.  They have succession planning built-in.

We, sorry, “they” sold a couple and brought in dozens.

Thats why you have to keep selling.

TO BALANCE THE BOOKS.

If you recruit effectively / efficiently you retain a bit of control.  You’ll never stop a Webster or a Scott going though.

Another spreadsheet:

We made £21m transfer profit from the sales of:

 

maybe Webster sell-on to Ipswich wasn’t as high but you’re splitting hairs there.

and then spent over £25m on PLUS THE INCREASED WAGE-BILL on:

not forgetting the costs of these loans:

 

if you think Afobe and Pereira came on loan to us for a contribution of their wages, you’re very naive.

To repeat, that’s why you have to sell players.  Shit, scattergun recruitment, loading cost into the club for limited value on the pitch.

I don’t disagree the likes of Brownhill and Webster developed whilst they were here.  Credit to LJ, BUT also credit to them too, their age / phase of development played a part too.  But by the same token, how many players didn’t develop at all.  You can cherry-pick your examples without giving a balanced view.

Does what I’ve posted paint a more rounded view???

 

Listen, i don’t disagree with anything you say.

I’m responding to people saying he spent loads. Totally ignoring the player sales. 

Totally aware that player wages and agent fees come into it and are costly.
 

does not change my point tho. He didn’t get a blank cheque and spend loads. 
 

He was often replacing players, with money the club got in sales. 

did he spend slightly more than he got in? Maybe? 
 

But to look at the transfer fees he spent and totally ignore the big fees we got for players is…. Horse shit. 

[ChrisBW]

2 minutes ago, Riaz said:

We were in the relegation zone. the players he had weren’t mid table or top end players at that time. Otherwise we wouldn’t be down there 

That’s because we signed a number of players on loan in January who dragged us to 18th. Some achievement.

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

See point b)

 

it’s funny isn’t it….you haven’t yet worked out that if you have losses as big as ours and you spend all your money you get from transfers (and more) on:

- transfer fees

- agent fees

- signing on fees

- wages

- loan fees

etc

you end up losing more money.

You can quote “net spend”, it’s ultimately horse shit as a true measurement of success.  Not forgetting SELL-ONs to the likes of Ipswich and Preston for Webster and Brownhill.

Sell one good player, maybe buy one replacement and one project (total two players), I’m absolutely fine with. And keep some money left over.  That’s what the good recruiting teams do.  They have succession planning built-in.

We, sorry, “they” sold a couple and brought in dozens.

Thats why you have to keep selling.

TO BALANCE THE BOOKS.

If you recruit effectively / efficiently you retain a bit of control.  You’ll never stop a Webster or a Scott going though.

Another spreadsheet:

We made £21m transfer profit from the sales of:

 

maybe Webster sell-on to Ipswich wasn’t as high but you’re splitting hairs there.

and then spent over £25m on PLUS THE INCREASED WAGE-BILL on:

not forgetting the costs of these loans:

 

if you think Afobe and Pereira came on loan to us for a contribution of their wages, you’re very naive.

To repeat, that’s why you have to sell players.  Shit, scattergun recruitment, loading cost into the club for limited value on the pitch.

I don’t disagree the likes of Brownhill and Webster developed whilst they were here.  Credit to LJ, BUT also credit to them too, their age / phase of development played a part too.  But by the same token, how many players didn’t develop at all.  You can cherry-pick your examples without giving a balanced view.

Does what I’ve posted paint a more rounded view???

 

Shit scattergun is definitely one aspect IMO Dave.

I still maintain other managers may well have got a fair bit more our of some of them too. For whatever reason his tactics didn't seem in keeping as we got to the final year with the background of those he signed. Tactics, preparation probably, man management certainly all lacking.

It's weird, it's my hobby horse but I believe we were somewhat built for a genuine 4-3-3 that final season..but he was hugely averse.

Okay a bit of a leap of faith given the injuries but:

          Maenpaa/Bentley

  Pereira Kalas Baker DaSilva

        Smith Nagy/Massengo

   Weimann Brownhill Eliasson

                     Afobe

Then the bench strength, what reasonable bench strength. On paper if managed correctly.

Lose Brownhill, in comes Wells. Benkovic can push for LCB and because of his age better suited to a higher line- Brownhill going was a miss granted but he really did not manage the squad well in the final year plus far too much churn. The style of plsy wss frequently terrible in his final season post August, September say and I can only attribute some of that to the tactics.

Edited August 12, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, Riaz said:

did he spend slightly more than he got in? Maybe? 

Yes

[Riaz]

22 minutes ago, ChrisBW said:

That’s because we signed a number of players on loan in January who dragged us to 18th. Some achievement.

1 of note. Tomlin. 

We were going down. And we played very predictable. Until Cotts went

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yes

My point remains. He didn’t spend a shit load, like some claim 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Riaz said:

1 of note. Tomlin. 

We were going down. And we played very predictable. Until Cotts went

My point remains. He didn’t spend a shit load, like some claim 

He did spend a shed-load…he also brought in a good-chunk too. Fair?

But he (SL/MA/LJ) also put a millstone around the club’s neck with reckless recruitment that had taken 3 years to remedy.  This season is really season 1 for Nige.

[ChrisBW]

11 minutes ago, Riaz said:

1 of note. Tomlin. 

We were going down. And we played very predictable. Until Cotts went

My point remains. He didn’t spend a shit load, like some claim 

There you go. 

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He did spend a shed-load…he also brought in a good-chunk too. Fair?

But he (SL/MA/LJ) also put a millstone around the club’s neck with reckless recruitment that had taken 3 years to remedy.  This season is really season 1 for Nige.

I realise that SL is responsible for appointing Ashton so ultimately the buck stops with him. However Ashton was given carte blanche and along with LJ turned the club into a complete shambles.

Its taken Nige until this season to rebuild the entire club and yeah, this is essentially his first season with a level playing field.

[Riaz]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

He did spend a shed-load…he also brought in a good-chunk too. Fair?

But he (SL/MA/LJ) also put a millstone around the club’s neck with reckless recruitment that had taken 3 years to remedy.  This season is really season 1 for Nige.

Yes.

I think they were doing well when concentrating on young hungry, but unproven players. Webster brownhill etc

But there was a clear change of direction. “Going for it” and signing expensive players. Palmer, Wells and buying kalas for 8m. That’s where is went wrong for me 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Riaz

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Is this still going? I thought we’d settled it a couple of weeks ago. By no means great player, by no means great manager, by no means shit player and by no means shit manager. With people at the extremes too entrenched to change their viewpoint.

Still, something good has to come of the extension of this thread and I propose it’s that you all follow this:

https://x.com/brentorjohnson?s=11&t=oNPHaJCf-XZnPFOJQiVJjg
 

Sample…

 

I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone pitch for him being a “great”! There’s certainly a case for him being considered one of the better City managers, but there’s not sufficient competition for that to qualify as ‘great’.
That’s based principally on league position and whatever the context in terms of backing etc the fact is you’ve still got to do the business. And I don’t buy into the idea that anyone could have done that. In some ways it was a reflection of the times generally in those pre covid days and those days are easy to forget. Plenty of others - Birmingham, Forest, QPR, Reading, were doing much the same.

 But there certainly are posters who pitch at the ‘shit’ extreme, and I think it’s the reaction to that - which is clearly nonsense - that keeps this going.

And you’re right: it’s bizarre. It’s bad enough during the summer break. But on a match day during the season the fact that this is still the top topic is very odd. And we’re both contributing to that.

[Norn Iron]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

See point b)

 

it’s funny isn’t it….you haven’t yet worked out that if you have losses as big as ours and you spend all your money you get from transfers (and more) on:

- transfer fees

- agent fees

- signing on fees

- wages

- loan fees

etc

you end up losing more money.

You can quote “net spend”, it’s ultimately horse shit as a true measurement of success.  Not forgetting SELL-ONs to the likes of Ipswich and Preston for Webster and Brownhill.

Sell one good player, maybe buy one replacement and one project (total two players), I’m absolutely fine with. And keep some money left over.  That’s what the good recruiting teams do.  They have succession planning built-in.

We, sorry, “they” sold a couple and brought in dozens.

Thats why you have to keep selling.

TO BALANCE THE BOOKS.

If you recruit effectively / efficiently you retain a bit of control.  You’ll never stop a Webster or a Scott going though.

Another spreadsheet:

We made £21m transfer profit from the sales of:

 

maybe Webster sell-on to Ipswich wasn’t as high but you’re splitting hairs there.

and then spent over £25m on PLUS THE INCREASED WAGE-BILL on:

not forgetting the costs of these loans:

 

if you think Afobe and Pereira came on loan to us for a contribution of their wages, you’re very naive.

To repeat, that’s why you have to sell players.  Shit, scattergun recruitment, loading cost into the club for limited value on the pitch.

I don’t disagree the likes of Brownhill and Webster developed whilst they were here.  Credit to LJ, BUT also credit to them too, their age / phase of development played a part too.  But by the same token, how many players didn’t develop at all.  You can cherry-pick your examples without giving a balanced view.

Does what I’ve posted paint a more rounded view???

 

Thanks Dave. 

Your best flip chart presentation ever!

 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Norn Iron said:

Thanks Dave. 

Your best flip chart presentation ever!

 

[Fordy62]

13 hours ago, Riaz said:

If he was out of his depth…

How did he take a woeful team  ijn the relegation zone and move us up the table in his first season? 
 

And then establish us as top half side?

**** loads of money thrown out him by his sugar daddy. Lansdown needed LJ to succeed at all costs. 

 

13 hours ago, Riaz said:

 Nothing to do with the kodjia sale then

Absolutely nothing given that the Kodjia sale occurred 7 months after Tomlin signed on loan. But sure, you keep making stuff up to suit your agenda. 

For the record, I don’t think LJ was terrible. He did fairly averagely for someone who had money thrown at him left right and centre. 

If you want to know what Johnson was truly excellent at, then being part of a team who brought the club to its knees in terms of a financial crisis, he is truly unsurpassed at that. 13m to 40m wage bill is absolutely staggering. 

[robinforlife2]

15 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I don’t buy it. That sounds like an easy excuse for those who want to exonerate LJ. I mean, it was hardly a serious misdemeanour. LJ didn’t rate him and got rid. He was an excellent player who went onto prove he was leagues above LJ. 

Hang on, are you really saying that people urinating in cups and chucking it off a balcony and landing on people, especially when they are professional footballers, people who should be role models to youngsters and are privileged to earn a fortune, is something that is not a serious misdemeanour.

Can tell you now for nothing, if I was one of the people it landed on, I would have sued them and done everything I could to make sure they never kicked a ball professionally again.

I am surprised that a serving policeman such as yourself, does not see that as a serious offence, especially given their position of trust and respect in the community. But then the MET does nothing for peoples confidence in police anymore, and it's quickly being proven, that the police are worse than those they are meant to be protecting the public from!

Edited August 12, 2023 by robinforlife2

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Hang on, are you really saying that people urinating in cups and chucking it off a balcony and landing on people, especially when they are professional footballers, people who should be role models to youngsters and are privileged to earn a fortune, is something that is not a serious misdemeanour.

Can tell you now for nothing, if I was one of the people it landed on, I would have sued them and done everything I could to make sure they never kicked a ball professionally again.

I am surprised that a serving policeman such as yourself, does not see that as a serious offence, especially given their position of trust and respect in the community. But then the MET does nothing for peoples confidence in police anymore, and it's quickly being proven, that the police are worse than those they are meant to be protecting the public from!

Did Ayling do that?  Wasn’t he “just there”?  Who was it that did it?  Curruthers / Forster-Caskey…can’t remember which one.

[Fordy62]

3 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Hang on, are you really saying that people urinating in cups and chucking it off a balcony and landing on people, especially when they are professional footballers, people who should be role models to youngsters and are privileged to earn a fortune, is something that is not a serious misdemeanour.

Can tell you now for nothing, if I was one of the people it landed on, I would have sued them and done everything I could to make sure they never kicked a ball professionally again.

I am surprised that a serving policeman such as yourself, does not see that as a serious offence, especially given their position of trust and respect in the community. But then the MET does nothing for peoples confidence in police anymore, and it's quickly being proven, that the police are worse than those they are meant to be protecting the public from!

1. You’d have sued them and down everything possible to make sure they don’t kick a ball again? Alright then mate.  

2. Have you read into the part that Luke Ayling played? Thought not.  

3. I suspect you’re a bit tired. Perhaps pop off and have a little sleep x

[Fordy62]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Did Ayling do that?  Wasn’t he “just there”?  Who was it that did it?  Curruthers / Forster-Caskey…can’t remember which one.

Don’t come on here spouting facts Dave. He should have never played again after that.  

[The Nest Egg]

8 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Hang on, are you really saying that people urinating in cups and chucking it off a balcony and landing on people, especially when they are professional footballers, people who should be role models to youngsters and are privileged to earn a fortune, is something that is not a serious misdemeanour.

Can tell you now for nothing, if I was one of the people it landed on, I would have sued them and done everything I could to make sure they never kicked a ball professionally again.

I am surprised that a serving policeman such as yourself, does not see that as a serious offence, especially given their position of trust and respect in the community. But then the MET does nothing for peoples confidence in police anymore, and it's quickly being proven, that the police are worse than those they are meant to be protecting the public from!

It wasn't thrown in an area where people were present. Ayling was silly to get himself associated with the incident but SL overreacted in pushing him out of the club 

[ChrisBW]

8 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

1. You’d have sued them and down everything possible to make sure they don’t kick a ball again? Alright then mate.  

2. Have you read into the part that Luke Ayling played? Thought not.  

3. I suspect you’re a bit tired. Perhaps pop off and have a little sleep x

Whats the point of your 3rd statement and the clown emojis, it’s a bit embarrassing. The poster has clearly wound you up. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by ChrisBW

[REDOXO]

14 hours ago, Riaz said:

Again this is a total myth. 
soon after joining the club had to sell kodjia for 13m… and then during his time, we kept selling his best players… and he spent the money from the sales. He actually had a negative net spend 

 

14 hours ago, Riaz said:

If he was out of his depth…

How did he take a woeful team  ijn the relegation zone and move us up the table in his first season? 
 

And then establish us as top half side?

LJ was always out of his depth. Both factually and metaphorically. 
 

I seem to remember a bloke named Pemberton. Or is my mind (it is very old now) playing tricks on me?

SC and Lansdown fell out before the start of the new season and he consequently wasn’t given money by Mr Lansdown as there was an issue over player negotiations with someone Cotterill wanted to bring in

We played with almost the entire promotion team until Cotterill was sacked which was inevitable as we were flirting constantly with the relegation zone. I was at Reading very close to the board room. After the match it flashed up on Sky sports we were in the relegation zone  I will never forget mentioning it and being told by a very well known individual within the club “We know where we are” again Cotterill being sacked was inevitable at that point and I have no doubt that Mr Johnson jnr was on Mr Lansdowns mind then  

Aaron Wilbraham said in an interview a year or two ago that Steve Cotterill was never given the money Lee Johnson was. (That’s on one of the City bloggs I am sure someone can find it) and he found it difficult to come to terms with  

Eventually everyone had to come to terms with LJ was a failed experiment that cost multi millions in ridiculous wages transfer fees and agent payments, the last one being a particular bug bare of those in power. This is supported by our closeness to a points deduction over FFP and the amount of total dross City we’re paying to not even get on the bench

My own personal thought on this is the comments made by the majority shareholder in support of LJ, “my money my choice” which on the face of it is true. However it was not just HIS money it was the clubs. It was the club that was going to suffer the consequences in fines and points deductions which were inevitable by product of not being promoted. 
 

Pearson has not only cleaned up Johnson Ashton and Mr Lansdowns total mess, without a fine and points deduction,  but has made us competitive with a low spend dipping into the third and fourth divisions. Something everyone should remember including those on our board who sanctioned what went on, and be bloody grateful for, when they compare with the LJ period. 
 

 

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by REDOXO