World Cup 2022 thread (football only)

[phantom]

Portugal, Argentina and now England on the end of multiple dubious referee decisions this weekend.... Can it really be a coincidence? 

[Rob k]

1 minute ago, italian dave said:

But the first thing is not what the rules say and the second is debateable and the VAR officials took a different view.

Dont get me wrong, I share your frustration, but I am just suggesting that there’s a good reason why VAR only covers the very immediate (by which I mean less than 40:seconds) passage of play leading to a goal, penalty etc. Because otherwise how far back do you go, and you’d probably end up with half of all goals being ruled out because something in the preceding minute could or should have been given. 

There’s still no consistency though - i remember a Man U goal V Burnley being disallowed for a very similar thing, A foul was made near the Man U box and they went and scored and they went back and disallowed the goal 

[italian dave]

Just now, Rob k said:

There’s still no consistency though - i remember a Man U goal V Burnley being disallowed for a very similar thing, A foul was made near the Man U box and they went and scored and they went back and disallowed the goal 

Oh, agree. Although I do think VAR generally works better in international tournaments than it does in the Premier League. 

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, Rob k said:

I’ve been critical of Southgate before as most here will know, we now have some of the best Young players I’ve ever seen coming through - is Southgate the man to take these to the next level? It will be Southgates decision though as the FA want him to continue to the Euros, if i was him I’d want one last crack with this squad.

If we went for a change what are the options? No way we can go foreign again, I don't think. Potter or Cooper? Meh.

Howe never leaving Newcastle. So, who?

Pearson 

[Northern Red]

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

If we went for a change what are the options? No way we can go foreign again, I don't think. Potter or Cooper? Meh.

Howe never leaving Newcastle. So, who?

Pearson 

[pillred]

2 minutes ago, italian dave said:

But it WAS up to him. He made that decision. 

Yes but only after he was MADE to go and look again, and basically had no choice but to award it, personally I think he hoped to get away with it. that is my opinion why the hell did he not give it straight away? I have a feeling the other way and he would not have been so reticent.

[italian dave]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

If we went for a change what are the options? No way we can go foreign again, I don't think. Potter or Cooper? Meh.

Howe never leaving Newcastle. So, who?

Pearson 

Job for C…….no, I’ll shut up!

[WolfOfWestStreet]

5 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

If we went for a change what are the options? No way we can go foreign again, I don't think. Potter or Cooper? Meh.

Howe never leaving Newcastle. So, who?

Pearson 

This is it. There are no exciting English options, don't want foreign either.

Copper absolutely not, Potter - yes but he's a young coach this is too early for him.

Howe, yes please but he's currently managing one of the richest clubs in the world, and doing a stellar job so england isn't attractive. 

Then we're talking about the Parker's, Gerrard's of the world ... get to **** 

Stick for me, when you look at the options the FA should be BEGGING him to stay, double down on Gareth IMHO 

[italian dave]

1 minute ago, pillred said:

Yes but only after he was MADE to go and look again, and basically had no choice but to award it, personally I think he hoped to get away with it. that is my opinion why the hell did he not give it straight away? I have a feeling the other way and he would not have been so reticent.

Scenario 1: referee uses VAR to give himself a better view of a potential penalty call and decides with the benefit of that better view and replay that the correct decision is a penalty

Scenario 2: there’s an international/Qatari/FIFA conspiracy to ensure that certain teams reach the final and/or that England definitely don’t reach the final because no-one likes us

At the end of the day you can believe which you want, but I know which I find most convincing. 

And reaching for the conspiracy/everyone hates us excuse just because we’ve lost a big game just makes us seem like bad losers - or like ManU or Millwall fans!

[Rob k]

2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

If we went for a change what are the options? No way we can go foreign again, I don't think. Potter or Cooper? Meh.

Howe never leaving Newcastle. So, who?

Pearson 

The England job would be a massive pull with this group of players - I just want to see us win something and we have a massive opportunity over the next 2 tournaments. Would need to have a think who i would like as like you say, Howe won’t be taking it any time soon

[italian dave]

2 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

This is it. There are no exciting English options, don't want foreign either.

Copper absolutely not, Potter - yes but he's a young coach this is too early for him.

Howe, yes please but he's currently managing one of the richest clubs in the world, and doing a stellar job so england isn't attractive. 

Then we're talking about the Parker's, Gerrard's of the world ... get to **** 

Stick for me, when you look at the options the FA should be BEGGING him to stay, double down on Gareth IMHO 

Agree. And even with Howe….club and international management are very very different beasts and his success at club level certainly doesn’t guarantee he’d reproduce managing a national side. 

[City1970]

12 minutes ago, phantom said:

Portugal, Argentina and now England on the end of multiple dubious referee decisions this weekend.... Can it really be a coincidence? 

A corrupt country hosting a corrupt organised competition, anything can happen 

[W-S-M Seagull]

19 minutes ago, italian dave said:

But the first thing is not what the rules say and the second is debateable and the VAR officials took a different view.

Dont get me wrong, I share your frustration, but I am just suggesting that there’s a good reason why VAR only covers the very immediate (by which I mean less than 40:seconds) passage of play leading to a goal, penalty etc. Because otherwise how far back do you go, and you’d probably end up with half of all goals being ruled out because something in the preceding minute could or should have been given. 

The foul was during the attacking phase. 

[cidercity1987]

Best team in the tournament 

Best team at 0-0

Best team at 0-1 

Not necessarily the best team at 1-1 and that has cost us

No shame to anyone but so sad we couldn't win a tournament where we were the best by far

Nothing to say about Kane either , I think it's very difficult to score two penalties in the same game especially against your club mate

[WolfOfWestStreet]

4 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Agree. And even with Howe….club and international management are very very different beasts and his success at club level certainly doesn’t guarantee he’d reproduce managing a national side. 

1 million percent. 2 champions league winning managers didn't even get there teams to the QF stage. 

It might sound crazy, but Harry Redknapp is better suited to this game than a klopp/pep ... these players don't need coaching they need managing. 

Howe will manage England at some point though, its inevitable.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

7 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Best team in the tournament 

Best team at 0-0

Best team at 0-1 

Not necessarily the best team at 1-1 and that has cost us

No shame to anyone but so sad we couldn't win a tournament where we were the best by far

Nothing to say about Kane either , I think it's very difficult to score two penalties in the same game especially against your club mate

Agree on that mate I think another player should have taken the second. Too much psychology on the second, that miserable woman Eni Aluko made the very point and its spot on. 

But in that exact moment I wouldn't have picked anyone else on earth. Hard luck Harry, you're a good bloke - this wont hang over him like it did southgate/pearce/waddle/beckham/batty/lampard/vassell 

**** when you write it down, we are so shit at penos

Edited December 11, 2022 by WolfOfWestStreet

[ORANGE500]

1 hour ago, Always Believesham said:

I don't agree there's an outright conspiracy but I do feel like there's both an arrogance from the English and an anti-English sentiment from officials that you see a glimpse of in every "big" game. When they collide it's incredibly stressful/frustrating to watch.

There were long periods where we didn't get a free-kick outside our own half tonight, unfortunate that the penalty (before the penalties) was outside the area. Hard to disagree that it was a foul though. The Saka one, mentioned, before the goal could have been given, but there also was at least one occasion where an England player was taken down and the tackle to win the ball back was penalised despite it being a perfectly good challenge.

Both penalties were stonewall in reality, only at Ashton Gate would you not see them given, and don't forget, he waved away the second one.

For what it's worth, I don't think we were that much worse than France that we needed 2 penalties to get anything in 90 minutes.

The game is the same across the world and it is as simple as having to score more goals than the opposition. We failed to do that tonight.

Although we weren't in control of the game, equalising wouldn't have been against the run of play.

Worse teams than that have won competitions. God it's like watching City.

Like watching City! But England losing doesn't matter nearly as much as  City losing and never will

[Kid in the Riot]

 

[Always Believesham]

12 minutes ago, ORANGE500 said:

Like watching City! But England losing doesn't matter nearly as much as  City losing and never will

It's weird, I can't work out whether it's because there's fewer games (and more jeopardy) in the international tournaments, or the fact that we don't get to enjoy big games at City. I get far more nervous watching England, and the feeling I had going into tonight was only really matched by how I felt going into the first Man City game.

It'll take me longer to "get over" England losing but I think I'll revel in the highs for a lot longer when City win something notable.

[Kid in the Riot]

38 minutes ago, Rob k said:

The England job would be a massive pull with this group of players - I just want to see us win something and we have a massive opportunity over the next 2 tournaments. Would need to have a think who i would like as like you say, Howe won’t be taking it any time soon

Don't want another Capello or Sven though. English manager seems to work best (maybe Hodgson aside!) Can't see one available better than Southgate right now. 

[Ska Junkie]

39 minutes ago, City1970 said:

A corrupt country hosting a corrupt organised competition, anything can happen 

Please excuse me as I've had a few.

A guy said tonight at a party I was at that FIFA were dreading England v Argentina so the ref was told that.

Makes sense given some of the decisions but we're out so good luck to the French.

Cheese eating surrender monkeys that they are but allez Les bleu now.

[downendcity]

3 hours ago, Northern Red said:

This thing about a second taker is hindsight at its finest, and not just on here either.

Suppose someone else had taken it with the same result. Then what?

Kane is one those that you would want to take a pen if you had to bet your house on it - including taking a second penalty!

Edited December 11, 2022 by downendcity

[Tinmans Love Child]

51 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Please excuse me as I've had a few.

A guy said tonight at a party I was at that FIFA were dreading England v Argentina so the ref was told that.

Makes sense given some of the decisions but we're out so good luck to the French.

Cheese eating surrender monkeys that they are but allez Les bleu now.

 

I just don't buy any conspiracy theories, yeh the ref was poor but suggesting that he was trying to influence the result through his decisions is ridiculous.  If he wanted France to win, surely he would awarded them a penalty or sent one of our players off?  He awarded us 2 penalties, which is a strange way to influence the game in France's favour unless Kane was also involved in the FIFA conspiracy and deliberately ballooned the penalty over the bar to make sure nobody suspected the referee of being involved in the FIFA conspiracy as well?  

 

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

Please excuse me as I've had a few.

A guy said tonight at a party I was at that FIFA were dreading England v Argentina so the ref was told that.

Makes sense given some of the decisions but we're out so good luck to the French.

Cheese eating surrender monkeys that they are but allez Les bleu now.

Well if a guy at a party said it, it must be true!

[Malago]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Kane is one those that you would want to take a pen if you had to bet your house on it - including taking a second penalty!

Who would you bet on if you had to bet your house on it?

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, downendcity said:

Kane is one those that you would want to take a pen if you had to bet your house on it - including taking a second penalty!

It's easy for people to say in hindsight that someone else should have taken it. What if they would have missed? The same people would be saying Kane should have took it. Can't win. 

It's just one of those things. 

[Numero Uno]

7 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

Maybe I've just become a bit cynical after so many years of England 'if only' stories. I just feel like we will always find a way to **** it up.

England are a constant sob story. Fact is we are not mentally strong enough to win the pressure games. We always find one way or another to lose when the pressure is on. Our players are now technically good enough but we are perennial losers because we lack the self-confidence to take advantage of our strengths when we are on top against the top teams.

Couldn’t agree less to be honest with you. For me the two best sides in the tournament went head to head, it was tight, both sides gave it a go and one had to win. No psychological bollocks required, we lost a very tight game of football between two evenly matched sides 2-1 and our lads gave their all. If you’re cynical after that find a different sport to watch and make sure you actually enjoy it, the whole point of following it.

[Port Said Red]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Were I a believer in the conspiracy side, I'd say that FIFA want a lot of shocks but ultimately.

Not the Messi v Ronaldo final that many state but France v Argentina aka Mbappe v Messi final.

Passing of the torch to the new greatest player from the last. (Arguable, granted).

Where do both play? PSG.

Who owns PSG? Qatar.

Where is the tournament? Qatar.

Passing from the old to the new in the World Cup final would truly reflect the glory of Qatar- and perhaps by association, PSG.

I mentioned the FIFA engineered final of choice, but thank you for expanding the detail. I am convinced this is the case myself. We all know how corrupt FIFA are, that's why we are here in the first place, nobody could say that it was beyond them.

Mind you, with the Saka challenge I do think it highlights how inept the officials are across the board. 

When asked if it would be looked at by VAR, ITV's pet referee said "Yes, it would have been looked at as it was part of one attacking phase of play that led to the goal, and they look at every aspect of that. But for me, it wasn't a foul because SAKA GOES DOWN TOO EASILY"! Well Walton you are as bad as the bloke on the field, the assistant ref and VAR then.

It's a joke, the player got nowhere near the ball and swept Saka's feet from under him, he couldn't have stayed on his feet. For both that and the penalty on Kane, Mbappe gets both decisions 100%.

[TedsHeadIs Red]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

It's easy for people to say in hindsight that someone else should have taken it. What if they would have missed? The same people would be saying Kane should have took it. Can't win. 

It's just one of those things. 

Very true. So easy for those with the wisdom of hindsight to criticise those with only the lottery of foresight. 

[Tinmans Love Child]

20 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I mentioned the FIFA engineered final of choice, but thank you for expanding the detail. I am convinced this is the case myself. We all know how corrupt FIFA are, that's why we are here in the first place, nobody could say that it was beyond them.

I can 100% say that FIFA conspiring to rig the results of the World Cup to engineer a World Cup final is total BS!  e.g. if they wanted the Messi v Ronaldo final then were Morocco not in on it, did they refuse to co-operate to allow Portugal safe passage through? Is the conspiracy to just keep England away from the final at all costs so they brought in a referee who would make us lose?  Was Kane involved and was directed by FIFA to miss the second penalty?  Absolute rubbish