Midfield Three

[Numero Uno]

What was that all about today? Not one of them gave us anything.

[ohhhshauntaylor]

All 3 very poor. 
Scott probably the worst of the 3. 

[Azed]

Thought James played a bit better after Williams got subbed. All 3 pretty poor though. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nickolas]

One too old. One too injury prone and one that’s not quite all that i’m afraid!

Add to that we should have Weimann in front of two of them then we are a tactical mess. 
 

Massengo is also a better option than 2 of the 3 of em too. Which says alot. 

[Dullmoan Tone]

What do we need to do to get Scott playing again?

Has he list all confidence?

Has he been overplayed?

Is it tactics?

He looked a shadow of a Championship player today?

[Unan]

First home game this season (exile), James was looking for the ball every second of the game, was always making space and ready to receive the ball. Disagree with James doing nothing 100%.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Marcus Aurelius said:

First home game this season (exile), James was looking for the ball every second of the game, was always making space and ready to receive the ball. Disagree with James doing nothing 100%.

Looking for the ball when you can take it off the Centre Half’s toes and going missing when a bloke is up your arse isn’t showing imo. That’s why Naismith reacted badly to the uneducated flak he was getting.

[KegCity]

1 minute ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

First home game this season (exile), James was looking for the ball every second of the game, was always making space and ready to receive the ball. Disagree with James doing nothing 100%.

He was the only one of the three that did. Williams and Scott both positioned themselves behind West Brom players meaning they couldn’t receive the ball. It’s either a lack of footballing intelligence or not wanting the ball. Neither are acceptable.

We played our best football with Scott and Massengo next to each other in my opinion.

[eardun]

Scott needs a break in my opinion. I thought the same after his second half performance in the last match as well. Not surprising that he should need a break given his age. 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, KegCity said:

He was the only one of the three that did. Williams and Scott both positioned themselves behind West Brom players meaning they couldn’t receive the ball. It’s either a lack of footballing intelligence or not wanting the ball. Neither are acceptable.

We played our best football with Scott and Massengo next to each other in my opinion.

Oldest trick In the book. Put yourself in an area you can’t receive the ball and you can’t do anything wrong.

[Unan]

10 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Looking for the ball when you can take it off the Centre Half’s toes and going missing when a bloke is up your arse isn’t showing imo. That’s why Naismith reacted badly to the uneducated flak he was getting.

It isn’t his fault he had nobody to pass to and pivot/play through the middle, the rest of the midfield were nowhere to be seen. I assume that’s tactics and don’t overly blame the other players but I don’t think James can be faulted for his performance.

[bearded_red]

Abysmal.

Love Alex Scott, but he was even worse than Williams and that really is saying something.

[City_USA]

18 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

What do we need to do to get Scott playing again?

Has he list all confidence?

Has he been overplayed?

Is it tactics?

He looked a shadow of a Championship player today?

Was he holding back because he knows he's off in a few days? 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

It isn’t his fault he had nobody to pass to and pivot/play through the middle, the rest of the midfield were nowhere to be seen. I assume that’s tactics and don’t overly blame the other players but I don’t think James can be faulted for his performance.

Ok, accepting that you saw James do more than I did, it can’t be disputed that as a “department” of the team our midfield just didn’t function today.

The only times we were able to get it forward were some quality long balls by Vyner in particular and Naismith at times. Nothing was able to go through the centre of the pitch today.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, City_USA said:

Was he holding back because he knows he's off in a few days? 

If he isn’t and if you were a scout sent to watch him you would definitely be wanting a second opinion on todays showing put it that way!! To me not showing is a big no if you are looking at an upwards career direction!!

[City_USA]

Just now, Numero Uno said:

If he isn’t and if you were a scout sent to watch him you would definitely be wanting a second opinion on todays showing put it that way!! To me not showing is a big no if you are looking at an upwards career direction!!

Agreed, I'm wondering if an agreement has already been made, same with Semenyo. Neither of which have been very influential of late 

IMO of course 

[Unan]

10 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Ok, accepting that you saw James do more than I did, it can’t be disputed that as a “department” of the team our midfield just didn’t function today.

The only times we were able to get it forward were some quality long balls by Vyner in particular and Naismith at times. Nothing was able to go through the centre of the pitch today.

Absolutely agree 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

What was that all about today? Not one of them gave us anything.

I’m usually one to find the positives, but I thought all three were below par, and in saying that I’m struggling to find any today.  They never got tight in midfield, got dispossessed too easily.  Scott looked sluggish first half and Williams just about held his own.  Second half there was nothing.

[cidercity1987]

44 minutes ago, eardun said:

Scott needs a break in my opinion. I thought the same after his second half performance in the last match as well. Not surprising that he should need a break given his age. 

Hasn't he just had a month break?

Terrible today for whatever reasons, one of which being the WBA midfielders crowded him as soon as he got the ball

[MC RISK77]

30 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Ok, accepting that you saw James do more than I did, it can’t be disputed that as a “department” of the team our midfield just didn’t function today.

The only times we were able to get it forward were some quality long balls by Vyner in particular and Naismith at times. Nothing was able to go through the centre of the pitch today.

Our midfield is very weak which is surprising given James was someone that I am pretty sure we all welcomed when he signed and he had just come off a very good season with Cov- Williams I remember many saying was the midfield general we have needed for years, too many injuries for him maybe and then Alex Scott who is one of the most talented prayers outside of the Prem.

So Pearson is working with talented footballers but our midfield was very weak today and on the whole for most of the season- gaping holes today and at times it looked like a training match for west brom.

This team does not look very well coached at all.

[Super]

Williams has been a huge disappointment certainly one I'd be looking to offload in the summer.

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

What do we need to do to get Scott playing again?

Has he list all confidence?

Has he been overplayed?

Is it tactics?

He looked a shadow of a Championship player today?

He’s been sold.

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, Super said:

Williams has been a huge disappointment certainly one I'd be looking to offload in the summer.

 

 

 

I think he’s been ok…but he’s not the player I thought we’d signed.  Those hamstring and quad injuries have lessened him as the player he was at Wigan.  The old Joe Williams is not the one we are seeing.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, bearded_red said:

Abysmal.

Love Alex Scott, but he was even worse than Williams and that really is saying something.

100%, also thought he shirked 3 tackles, which made me wonder if his mind is on January.

Would have been the second player to come off for me after King, who had picked up a knock.

[Red-Robbo]

Actually thought James wasn't terrible today. Not great, but saved our bacon on occasion and played forward the great pass that set up Conway's first attempt. 

Scott though was awful. Weak, and poor on the ball.

Williams was crap against Stoke and simply didn't deserve to start. He looks a shadow of the player he was before his injury. 

[GrahamC]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

Actually thought James wasn't terrible today. Not great, but saved our bacon on occasion and played forward the great pass that set up Conway's first attempt. 

Scott though was awful. Weak, and poor on the ball.

Williams was crap against Stoke and simply didn't deserve to start. He looks a shadow of the player he was before his injury. 

My view too, James is going to get flak now from the section of the crowd that’s turned because he’s Pearson’s man but I also thought he was considerably better than the other two.

[cheddarwedlocker]

Think scott thrives in the ‘8’ role and weimann as the 10. Never understood why hes playing RWB with two of them on the bench!

[cheddarwedlocker]

One moment in the first half when James asked for the ball on the edge of the box from Vyner, didnt look up once, turned around and lethargically played it to Naismith. No energy or drive whatsoever 

[Bar BS3]

You can't blame the tactics.....!

 

 

 

There aren't any to blame...!

[Silvio Dante]

The basic issue is pace through the midfield and moving the ball quickly. We didn’t do that and gave WBA chance to easily regroup when we did have the ball.

James I agree with prior posters - he showed more than the other two, but he was very deep and almost on top of King and Naismith. At one point in the second half him and KN played 1-2s over and over - Naismith was waiting for James to turn and break lines but the ball just kept coming back to KN. I get James’ job is the deep lying player and to recycle, but if it’s not recycled quickly, then it becomes more difficult to do proactively.

Scott was way off today. Williams also - noting that his game is not the passing but is holding and cover.

Inherently though the issue for me was that our 3 became a 2 with James too deep - understand why as Naismith and King aren’t blessed with pace so you need the cover. However that in turn meant Scott and Williams dragged back and Wells/Conway isolated. WBA were only playing with 1 up top all the time (Dike) and wingers pushing - but in effect they were 1 against our 4, meaning they had about a 6-4 overload all the time in midfield.

So we end up playing slow balls which are lost or long passes (and there were some good long passes today) to get Wells and TC in.

Tactically, it was pretty poor for those reasons. Easy to point to other things, but basic pace of play and shape as opposed to just King/AW playing out of position let us down today

Edited December 26, 2022 by Silvio Dante

[NcnsBcfc]

I thought Yokuslu was very very good for WBA today in the centre. Bossed all three of out CMs in the first half, to the extent that we tried missing out the midfield all together in the 2nd half, and attempting to hit the channels.

I think i saw Scott today dip out of 3/4 challenges that I would normally have expected him to go for. I hope thats not an indication of a potential move next month on the horizion, and the need to avoid any potential injury?

Not one of our central midfielders today though broke through their lines in any form of transition.

The 30 mins of the second half up until their second goal were the dullest i can recall this season

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I thought Yokuslu was very very good for WBA today in the centre. Bossed all three of out CMs in the first half, to the extent that we tried missing out the midfield all together in the 2nd half, and attempting to hit the channels.

I think i saw Scott today dip out of 3/4 challenges that I would normally have expected him to go for. I hope thats not an indication of a potential move next month on the horizion, and the need to avoid any potential injury?

Not one of our central midfielders today though broke through their lines in any form of transition.

The 30 mins of the second half up until their second goal were the dullest i can recall this season

Second half we didn’t lay a glove on them until time was almost up.  Every-time I thought we might spring a gap, we lost it and got broken on.  Frustrating second half after building some momentum going into the h-t break.

[NcnsBcfc]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Second half we didn’t lay a glove on them until time was almost up.  Every-time I thought we might spring a gap, we lost it and got broken on.  Frustrating second half after building some momentum going into the h-t break.

I agree to a point @Davefevs.

But we came out once again completely flat, after having the best of the last 5 mins of the 1st half.

Within the first 5 mins, we had abandoned the plans that had had some effect in the first half, and started hitting the ball long to both our wing backs. It was absolute madness, and completely played into WBA's hands. They just sat back on their lead, and couldn't believe we had suddenly become so inept.

There was no plan b, and the only non injury sub that we made wasn't until the 71st minute when we took off our player of the season from last year.

To see Bell up front, and Weimann on the bench, rather than pushed up behind the front two by the Sykes/tanner substitution was bizarre in the extreme.

I know Semenyeo is on the naughty step after refusing to play for the under 21s, but only to bring him on after the second goal was bascially belligerent point making by NP.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

I know Semenyeo is on the naughty step after refusing to play for the under 21s, but only to bring him on after the second goal was bascially belligerent point making by NP.

Ooooh, where did that news come from?

[The Bard]

2 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said:

What do we need to do to get Scott playing again?

Has he list all confidence?

Has he been overplayed?

Is it tactics?

He looked a shadow of a Championship player today?

He clearly needs to be dropped ...

[Bodiesaffer]

What it needed was to remove Andi, with Semenyo.  Power and pace on the right would of won that game.  Andi is also not a captain. Way to quiet.  

[glynriley]

6 minutes ago, The Bard said:

He clearly needs to be dropped ...

Tough job for a 19 year old kid to carry a team. 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, The Bard said:

He clearly needs to be dropped ...

…into a PL club

[Red Army 79]

We need Weimann back in the hole behind the front two, wasted at wingback. 
 

Scott, Williams and Matty James  fighting for the deeper Centre Midfield two positions. 

 

[old_eastender]

9 hours ago, Red Army 79 said:

We need Weimann back in the hole behind the front two, wasted at wingback. 
 

Scott, Williams and Matty James  fighting for the deeper Centre Midfield two positions. 

 

Totally agree AW needs to play behind the top two, utterly wasted at RWB and we have better options to play that role than AW anyway.

For Millwall, like to see Williams dropped, Scott play central alongside James, AW in the hole. Tanner or Sykes RWB.

 

 

[nickolas]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Ooooh, where did that news come from?

Oooooohhh more scandal, i like it!!!!

[Jerseybean]

agree with the OP re yesterday, however, our midfield has been one of the biggest problems for along time tbh. All too often we fail to play effectively through midfield which leads to us either going sideways or backwards in our own half or hitting a long hopeful ball.

Generally opponents, as was certainly the case yesterday, play neat, quick, passes through midfield and hold onto the ball far more comfortably than we do.

For ages I have thought we haven’t had enough diversity in our midfield as we have had too many players of a similar style. A bit simplistic but what I’m getting at is we haven’t really got a ball winner, a creative spark and a dynamo in the middle of the park. Although on his day Scotty can be all of these! 
 

 

[spudski]

There is no reason why NP couldn't have played his most affective formation yesterday, with players playing in their more ' natural' position. 

Playing Weimann at RWB is a joke.

It throws the balance of the team completely. 

3412 has been our most affective formation when playing with players in positions that are accustomed to it.

Square pegs again. LJ did this...trying to put what he considered his best players on the pitch whatever. NP is doing the same.

Our midfield imo, and the team as a whole could have been more affective if we had gone...

_________________Max_________________

_____Vyner___Naismith__Atkinson_____

Sykes_____James____Scott______Pring

______________Weimann_______________

_________Conway______Wells__________

With players on the bench that can be like for like... DaSilva for Pring, Tanner for Sykes, King and Williams for midfield. Semenyo for up front. Bents GK. Say Bell, Martin or Massengo or Close as the seventh. 

We have the players available in the squad, that can be utilised properly in natural positions, that whilst not pulling up trees, could be more affective and imo, be at least mid table. 

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, nickolas said:

Oooooohhh more scandal, i like it!!!!

I heard it pre-game yesterday, but had no idea whether true or not.

1 hour ago, spudski said:

There is no reason why NP couldn't have played his most affective formation yesterday, with players playing in their more ' natural' position. 

Playing Weimann at RWB is a joke.

It throws the balance of the team completely. 

3412 has been our most affective formation when playing with players in positions that are accustomed to it.

Square pegs again. LJ did this...trying to put what he considered his best players on the pitch whatever. NP is doing the same.

Our midfield imo, and the team as a whole could have been more affective if we had gone...

_________________Max_________________

_____Vyner___Naismith__Atkinson_____

Sykes_____James____Scott______Pring

______________Weimann_______________

_________Conway______Wells__________

With players on the bench that can be like for like... DaSilva for Pring, Tanner for Sykes, King and Williams for midfield. Semenyo for up front. Bents GK. Say Bell, Martin or Massengo or Close as the seventh. 

We have the players available in the squad, that can be utilised properly in natural positions, that whilst not pulling up trees, could be more affective and imo, be at least mid table. 

 

 

 

Swap Sykes with Tanner and I’m happy.

[Lew-T]

Midfield was embarrassing yesterday.

[eardun]

18 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Hasn't he just had a month break?

Terrible today for whatever reasons, one of which being the WBA midfielders crowded him as soon as he got the ball

A break in the sense that we know it is quite common for young players to start well but then have a dip in form. I would rather we gave Scott a break than flog him to death while he is struggling for form. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I heard it pre-game yesterday, but had no idea whether true or not.

Swap Sykes with Tanner and I’m happy.

Is Tanner a wing back though? Even thst feels like a bit of a compromise- mind you Sykes was more central when we signed him. Suppose half our side are compromises in one way or another. I'd prefer him in a back 4 at RB really, problem is can Naismith play in a CB pair, who do we pair at centre back etc. 

A fully fit and in form Wilson and Kalas could square some circles but that feels a long way off.

[spudski]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is Tanner a wing back though? Even thst feels like a bit of a compromise- mind you Sykes was more central when we signed him. Suppose half our side are compromises in one way or another. I'd prefer him in a back 4 at RB really, problem is can Naismith play in a CB pair, who do we pair at centre back etc. 

A fully fit and in form Wilson and Kalas could square some circles but that feels a long way off.

NP sees Tanner as a right back and not a wing back. He said so in his post match interview with the Bristol post. There is a transcript of it online.

He said this when asked about Weimann playing RWB. He said Sykes was the only RWB. 

Also from the interview, he said the players picked for playing, were the ones showing up well in training everyday. 

I get he wants to create a dynamic, pro active, non lazy culture around the club, but it has to be balanced with progress on match day....not what wholly goes on during the week in training. 

What's the point of training brilliantly if you can't do it consistently on match day. 

Not every footballer trains brilliantly...however some can be very consistent on match day. 

A balance surely has to be found...creating a culture is great long term, but not if it negates what's going on short term and we end up getting relegated and the sack. 

I look at Atkinson...imo he's done hardly anything wrong on match day. Yet apparently not great at training. Points count on a match day...not at the HPC. If he was underperforming in training and on match day I'd get it...but he isn't.

Cutting your nose off to spite your face comes to mind. 

[sh1t_ref_again]

What was evident yesterday and the contrast between the 2 teams, we have stopped pressing as a unit and the lack of movement off the ball allowing the quick passing, we were doing it very well until recently. Now the ball gets played backwards and sidewards or smashed down the channel as we have a lack of options. WBA were excellent at it, made it looked men against boys

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, spudski said:

Also from the interview, he said the players picked for playing, were the ones showing up well in training everyday. 

I get he wants to create a dynamic, pro active, non lazy culture around the club, but it has to be balanced with progress on match day....not what wholly goes on during the week in training. 

What's the point of training brilliantly if you can't do it consistently on match day. 

Not every footballer trains brilliantly...however some can be very consistent on match day. 

Very true, it’s working out those that play well on match day from those that don’t, then looking at who is training well.  I doubt training is the only yardstick.

2 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

What was evident yesterday and the contrast between the 2 teams, we have stopped pressing as a unit and the lack of movement off the ball allowing the quick passing, we were doing it very well until recently. Now the ball gets played backwards and sidewards or smashed down the channel as we have a lack of options. WBA were excellent at it, made it looked men against boys

We were so far off in midfield yesterday…

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Very true, it’s working out those that play well on match day from those that don’t, then looking at who is training well.  I doubt training is the only yardstick.

We were so far off in midfield yesterday…

I agree training shouldn't be the only yardstick.

Having listened to NP and read transcripts, he continually reiterates that he's here to do a job for the club long term. To turn it around, create a better culture etc. 

I totally get this...it's needed.

However, the situation is turning into how it was with SoD.

He too came here and saw the problems. He became so involved in changing things for the better long term, that first team results suffered. Fans became frustrated and the rest is history.

Coppel saw the same...instead he chose to walk as he saw it was a nigh on impossible task to overhaul everything and keep focussed on the first team.

We are now in SoD territory with NP. 

It's a shame because this club needs a kick up the backside. And I feel he the man to implement it.

However...like SOD you can see he's pigheaded. He has nothing to prove. 

The more you push him...the more stubborn he'll become.

I want him to turn things around on the pitch, as what he's doing off it, is much needed imo.

But he really needs to get more out of this team quickly. Otherwise the past two seasons will be a waste of time.

[onlyotib]

14 hours ago, old_eastender said:

Totally agree AW needs to play behind the top two, utterly wasted at RWB and we have better options to play that role than AW anyway.

For Millwall, like to see Williams dropped, Scott play central alongside James, AW in the hole. Tanner or Sykes RWB.

 

 

Totally agree with this. I would go Tanner simply because of more energy up and down the flank. Also please start Atkinson instead of King

[Rocking Red Cyril]

On 26/12/2022 at 19:47, City_USA said:

Agreed, I'm wondering if an agreement has already been made, same with Semenyo. Neither of which have been very influential of late 

IMO of course 

Yes I think there is something in this theory. 

IMO of course