Reflection

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What a twist of narrative!

Nige gone again, eh, Dave? 

[W-S-M Seagull]

50 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Certainly not by me. Perhaps you should quote exactly who did and what they're saying now? Alternatively, we can take that you just make up crap to fit your viewpoint? The info is there if you want to prove your point or not- the latter signifying you are indeed making stuff up. Your choice.

 

As far as Tinnion is concerned- how very convenient to take his 1 year role as Manager out of context- he played 458 games in 12 years. He returned to BCFC and has driven the youth side of things as well as loans, Academy Director  and is now DOF having given most of his working career to this club. The best stuff at BCFC is mainly as a result of his input- Brian was coaching Scott, Semenyo & Conway when Nige was still in Belgium.

@Percy Pig perhaps you should read OTIB a bit more thoroughly? I know you're only just starting out but I really  haven't seen "demands" for Nige's sacking as with @W-S-M Seagullplease quote those"demanding" NP should be sacked. There are simply those who believe NP is not the man to take us further forward and could well lead us into L1 as our record suggests. It seems much more the case the those in the cult of Nigel demand that he stays and woe betide anyone with a view to the contrary mainly because they are "brain dead" or are the "very same people who booed a player in a cup match" which in itself is speculative nonsense with zero credibility .

 

 

All over social media there was disgusting comments regarding the reason he was off sick. Completely untrue and unfounded allegations. Don't pretend you didn't see it. 

Plenty of people have demanded his sacking. The "We want Pearson out" chant was quite demanding wasn't it? 

[Davefevs]

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

All over social media there was disgusting comments regarding the reason he was off sick. Completely untrue and unfounded allegations. Don't pretend you didn't see it. 

Plenty of people have demanded his sacking. The "We want Pearson out" chant was quite demanding wasn't it? 

Those stories were on here too.

[Northern Red]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Those stories were on here too.

Yep, and were removed. I suspect MRR knows this too which is why the question is being asked, as it can't be proven.

[lenred]

2 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Are you and W-S-M Seagull Pearson's kids by any chance?

What a ‘ish comment.  

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

It’s normal and totally acceptable to question the manager’s selections, tactics and overall performance. 
Lee Johnson was (rightly) scrutinised during his tenure and it’s perfectly right that we appraise Nige. 
Many of us have played the game to some level or another and ALL of us watch the game, so we are NOT clueless - whatever we think of Nige. 
This is OUR club and we want the best for it. We’ve all invested money in it and when we see poor results and performances it’s absolutely right that we debate the reasons why. 
Just blindly saying that Nige (or anyone for that matter) always knows best is wrong. 
It’s just like saying we should accept that the government always knows best and we don’t need elections. 

But Nige knows better than us the reasons as to why he makes those selections. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

56 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

All over social media there was disgusting comments regarding the reason he was off sick. Completely untrue and unfounded allegations. Don't pretend you didn't see it. 

Plenty of people have demanded his sacking. The "We want Pearson out" chant was quite demanding wasn't it? 

No I genuinely didn't see it unless it was on here. The only thing I can remember is what @Davefevs wrote at the time about Nige leaving ( bit of a theme with Dave). I don't do Twitter or smugbook  or any of the others so my 'pretence' is yet another of your fantasies.

In respect of demands- I was very specific about it being OTIB- see previous posts. Who, on OTIB, is demanding NP sacked ? A recent poll voted by 700 individuals on OTIB voted by  60% that it was time to seek a new manager. Demands on this club are pointless and you should know this by now- BCFC is not a democracy, it's an autocracy.

Come on- I've called your bluff and asked you to prove what you said: show me the comments on OTIB made about Nige's illness and what those same posters are saying now . If you can't then I think that pretty much sums up your credibility on this issue.

20 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Anyway, I've said my bit. I've made a fairly lengthy case for Nige and it's one I believe in. You responded to one point in a childish way, so I guess that's really the end of the debate. Nothing to be gained from further denigrating into insults and bickering. 

 

So you've made 16 posts in total on OTIB and the majority are ,so far, similar to the above and  argumentative. Good luck with that as I hope you have more in your repertoire than calling people who ask for evidence "childish" or getting overly heated if someone doesn't agree with your opinion of Nige!

A  happy NY to you too!

[Vidal]

Nigel Pearson is an experienced manager who is proven at this level, and there have definitely been some successes along with the obvious failings. The question with NP is whether he is now past his prime - recent stints with us, Leuvren and Derby do point towards that, where success on the pitch has been limited. 

This idea of “prime” and managers is an interesting one in my view - the likes of Hughes, Clough, Brown, Adkins, Jacket, Grayson etc were all proven in the Champ, now finding themselves in the lower leagues, should Pearson be in the same category? Once a top championship manager now past his best?

Pearson successes here include (in my view) 

- Balancing the books, playing young players and adding considerable value to them, clarity to fan base, good individual results 

negatives (in my view)

- league position, win ratio, rigidity of formation, players played out of position when alternatives available, relations with players in the press, individual signings.

I am not calling for his removal, I can’t think of a better person to sort us out off the pitch, however I do not necessarily have faith in his decision making and coaching. For me it’s about survival, like he has said, perhaps his job is about doing the dirty work that builds the foundations for who comes next. 

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

But Nige knows better than us the reasons as to why he makes those selections. 

I totally agree with this - Nige knows why he makes the decisions and we don’t. 
I probably come across on this forum and being anti-NP. I’m not. 
I question his selection and tactics as I have done all our managers and will continue to do so. 
I worry when our manager selects the wrong players for certain positions and then, when we lose, repeats the same (IMHO) wrong selection, loses again, then says in response to criticism ‘I’m not bothered - I’ve been booed in bigger stadiums than this’

I think that says more than the actual words he used. 
 

However, I genuinely hope he is right and turns it around. SAF and Alan Dicks were both within an inch of getting sacked before they turned it around. I really hope Nige can do the same. Changing managers is unsettling and isn’t great. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

No I genuinely didn't see it unless it was on here. The only thing I can remember is what @Davefevs wrote at the time about Nige leaving ( bit of a theme with Dave). I don't do Twitter or smugbook  or any of the others so my 'pretence' is yet another of your fantasies.

In respect of demands- I was very specific about it being OTIB- see previous posts. Who, on OTIB, is demanding NP sacked ? A recent poll voted by 700 individuals on OTIB voted by  60% that it was time to seek a new manager. Demands on this club are pointless and you should know this by now- BCFC is not a democracy, it's an autocracy.

Come on- I've called your bluff and asked you to prove what you said: show me the comments on OTIB made about Nige's illness and what those same posters are saying now . If you can't then I think that pretty much sums up your credibility on this issue.

So you've made 16 posts in total on OTIB and the majority are ,so far, similar to the above and  argumentative. Good luck with that as I hope you have more in your repertoire than calling people who ask for evidence "childish" or getting overly heated if someone doesn't agree with your opinion of Nige!

A  happy NY to you too!

What did I write at the time?  Apart from I posted that I’d heard he’d gone?  I had a message from someone saying “Nige Gone”, and in response to a post saying he’d gone, I passed on what message I’d received.

I hope you’re not insinuating in any way that I contributed to the awful stuff said about his health, and I’m not talking about Covid!

Please clarify.

[Vidal]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

But Nige knows better than us the reasons as to why he makes those selections. 

Yes but it doesn’t mean those decision were right. We all know that he has more knowledge than any of us as fans however some of his calls have been pretty bizarre and lacked sense.
An example is playing Weimann at wing back despite both Sykes and Tanner being fit and available. Genuinely defies belief considering 1) 20+ goals last season. 2) both players were Pearson signings 3) a defence that has leaked too many goals.

Pearson is not used to this situation and managing a team with the challenges we face, and I think it shows.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Vidal said:

Yes but it doesn’t mean those decision were right. We all know that he has more knowledge than any of us as fans however some of his calls have been pretty bizarre and lacked sense.
An example is playing Weimann at wing back despite both Sykes and Tanner being fit and available. Genuinely defies belief considering 1) 20+ goals last season. 2) both players were Pearson signings 3) a defence that has leaked too many goals.

Pearson is not used to this situation and managing a team with the challenges we face, and I think it shows.

Sykes has generally been poor since his red card. 

How do you now how they've performed in training during the week? 

I don't like players being played out of position. However I agree wit Nige that we can't just play players out of need. 

If they are not at the required standard in training each day then we can't compromise on the standards we have set. That would be far more damaging to the team and the club to buckle for short term need. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

What did I write at the time?  Apart from I posted that I’d heard he’d gone?  I had a message from someone saying “Nige Gone”, and in response to a post saying he’d gone, I passed on what message I’d received.

I hope you’re not insinuating in any way that I contributed to the awful stuff said about his health, and I’m not talking about Covid!

Please clarify.

Dave- I sorta promised myself that I wouldn't come back after NYE and post on OTIB- yet here I am and a bit merry !

Of course I'm not insinuating any such thing-it's not your style. Like I said- all I remebered about that time was that you said you'd heard he'd gone from the HPC. I never drilled down into the BS that was being spouted- I dont join in with that stuff and generally put it on ignore.  There's no manager that has ever upset me other than TP or JJ who broke my heart when he went to Hearts.

You and I are are on very differnt sides of the the debate about NP but are ultimately wanting the same thing- progress. You think this will be achieved with NP and I think it wont. We can spar ad infinitum but it all comes down to results. If I'm right it will be the most spectacular pyrrhic victory.If you're right then I get to watch Champ footie for another season and will be as happy as larry. -irrespective of how wrong I am.

 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

34 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Dave- I sorta promised myself that I wouldn't come back after NYE and post on OTIB- yet here I am and a bit merry !

Of course I'm not insinuating any such thing-it's not your style. Like I said- all I remebered about that time was that you said you'd heard he'd gone from the HPC. I never drilled down into the BS that was being spouted- I dont join in with that stuff and generally put it on ignore.  There's no manager that has ever upset me other than TP or JJ who broke my heart when he went to Hearts.

You and I are are on very differnt sides of the the debate about NP but are ultimately wanting the same thing- progress. You think this will be achieved with NP and I think it wont. We can spar ad infinitum but it all comes down to results. If I'm right it will be the most spectacular pyrrhic victory.If you're right then I get to watch Champ footie for another season and will be as happy as larry. -irrespective of how wrong I am.

 

 

Can you name a manager who would progress us? That is affordable and can work with the same restrictions Pearson has had to work with? 

Compensation probably wouldn't be possible. 

That man needs to also be willing to work closely with the academy and promote youth players. 

Edited January 1, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[Vidal]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Sykes has generally been poor since his red card. 

How do you now how they've performed in training during the week? 

I don't like players being played out of position. However I agree wit Nige that we can't just play players out of need. 

If they are not at the required standard in training each day then we can't compromise on the standards we have set. That would be far more damaging to the team and the club to buckle for short term need. 

There are a number of flaws with your Argument.
Firstly, there was little training done between Tuesday and Thursday, and the decision to play Tanner wasn’t based on a change in performance, training levels (which are good) and attitude (which is I’m told is also good), but due to the failings against West Brom. 

Secondly, if the players in their natural position are hopelessly out of form than it’s up to NP to get the right square peg in the round hole, again Weimann proved to be the wrong one.

Thirdly, where has NP said anything about Tanner and Sykes and their quality of training? Can you point me to a link highlighting that they haven’t been the “required standard”?

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Dave- I sorta promised myself that I wouldn't come back after NYE and post on OTIB- yet here I am and a bit merry !

Of course I'm not insinuating any such thing-it's not your style. Like I said- all I remebered about that time was that you said you'd heard he'd gone from the HPC. I never drilled down into the BS that was being spouted- I dont join in with that stuff and generally put it on ignore.  There's no manager that has ever upset me other than TP or JJ who broke my heart when he went to Hearts.

You and I are are on very differnt sides of the the debate about NP but are ultimately wanting the same thing- progress. You think this will be achieved with NP and I think it wont. We can spar ad infinitum but it all comes down to results. If I'm right it will be the most spectacular pyrrhic victory.If you're right then I get to watch Champ footie for another season and will be as happy as larry. -irrespective of how wrong I am.

 

 

Ta, HNY MRR.

 

[robinforlife2]

11 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Can you name a manager who would progress us? That is affordable and can work with the same restrictions Pearson has had to work with? 

Compensation probably wouldn't be possible. 

That man needs to also be willing to work closely with the academy and promote youth players. 

Yes John Aloisi. He's worked on a budget probably half of our current budget and got a struggling team to be top 4 in their league twice, and in his current role he has won the league with the team with the smallest budget. He also is responsible for overhauling the Melbourne Victory youth team and got a lot of them into the current set up and in the Socceroo set up.

Plus a lot of the press in Aus want him to replace Graham Arnold as the Socceroo's manager.

Before you crab the A League, it probably isn't too dissimilar in terms of quality to the Championship, given the sort of players out there and as a player he played for his country at a World Cup and played in the Premier League, whilst being also the first Australian to score goals in the Premier League, La Liga and Serie A, where he played for Royal Antwerp, Cremonese, Coventry City (In the Premier League), Osasuna and Alaves. 

One may argue in his short tenure as a manager he has already proven himself a capable manager by winning a title with a team with no money, and regardless whether the teams he played for at the highest level were lower league teams, he has still played in three of the biggest leagues in the world, and played for his country in a World Cup.

He was originally a manager in youth football when he retired from playing, personal issues saw him have to take some time out, but came back by transforming the Melbourne Youth side, before transforming Brisbane Roar back into a top four team, before taking on the job at Western United who have the lowest budget in the A League, and despite predicted to come bottom without a single marquee player, he guided them to win the A League, In the summer he lost all his good players and again had to bring players in from the youth setup, and having had a tough start to the season, they have acquired 10pts out of their last 15, playing 2 of the biggest teams in the A League and beating one, and drawing with the other,

A manager wanted for the top job in Aus, but I have no doubt the attraction to manage in England would definitely appeal and he is a manger who has made all his success with no money, and having to work with youth. So before you make out Pearson is a better manager, I would argue, John Aloisi has achieved much more in the last 5 years than Pearson has, whilst working with harder constraints and not only done his job, but excelled.

He's only 46 so no dinosaur and just to see what he has done at Western United is mind blowing. He's even got players like Neil Kilkenny looking like they can play football, something he never done here!

So yes, he is most definitely a sensible suggestion and would easily work within our current remit, and would most likely progress us. 

I seriously hope someone at the club has one eye on him, as even if Nige lasts the season, and gets us in a position where we are more stable, we need someone who could take the club forward and have fresh ideas and can work within our constraints, John Aloisi is 100% that man. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, robinforlife2 said:

Yes John Aloisi. He's worked on a budget probably half of our current budget and got a struggling team to be top 4 in their league twice, and in his current role he has won the league with the team with the smallest budget. He also is responsible for overhauling the Melbourne Victory youth team and got a lot of them into the current set up and in the Socceroo set up.

Plus a lot of the press in Aus want him to replace Graham Arnold as the Socceroo's manager.

Before you crab the A League, it probably isn't too dissimilar in terms of quality to the Championship, given the sort of players out there and as a player he played for his country at a World Cup and played in the Premier League, whilst being also the first Australian to score goals in the Premier League, La Liga and Serie A, where he played for Royal Antwerp, Cremonese, Coventry City (In the Premier League), Osasuna and Alaves. 

One may argue in his short tenure as a manager he has already proven himself a capable manager by winning a title with a team with no money, and regardless whether the teams he played for at the highest level were lower league teams, he has still played in three of the biggest leagues in the world, and played for his country in a World Cup.

He was originally a manager in youth football when he retired from playing, personal issues saw him have to take some time out, but came back by transforming the Melbourne Youth side, before transforming Brisbane Roar back into a top four team, before taking on the job at Western United who have the lowest budget in the A League, and despite predicted to come bottom without a single marquee player, he guided them to win the A League, In the summer he lost all his good players and again had to bring players in from the youth setup, and having had a tough start to the season, they have acquired 10pts out of their last 15, playing 2 of the biggest teams in the A League and beating one, and drawing with the other,

A manager wanted for the top job in Aus, but I have no doubt the attraction to manage in England would definitely appeal and he is a manger who has made all his success with no money, and having to work with youth. So before you make out Pearson is a better manager, I would argue, John Aloisi has achieved much more in the last 5 years than Pearson has, whilst working with harder constraints and not only done his job, but excelled.

He's only 46 so no dinosaur and just to see what he has done at Western United is mind blowing. He's even got players like Neil Kilkenny looking like they can play football, something he never done here!

So yes, he is most definitely a sensible suggestion and would easily work within our current remit, and would most likely progress us. 

I seriously hope someone at the club has one eye on him, as even if Nige lasts the season, and gets us in a position where we are more stable, we need someone who could take the club forward and have fresh ideas and can work within our constraints, John Aloisi is 100% that man. 

You do keep repeating this re Aloisi.  I’d still like to know whether he’d get a work permit here?  Did his time here before give him any settled status, etc.

[robinforlife2]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You do keep repeating this re Aloisi.  I’d still like to know whether he’d get a work permit here?  Did his time here before give him any settled status, etc.

I think he would get a work permit. I mean he has been a player at the highest level in 4 countries, outside his country of birth. He spent 4 and a half years in England so he would have previously had a work permit and didn't have any problems over here, so no reason why he wouldn't be able to return. 

He married in England in the UK in 1999 whilst living in England, and she had lived here since completing uni in the UK, so I don't know if she is English or an English citizen? But I suspect this may qualify him alone and his eldest daughter is 22 born in the UK, his second daughter is 19 (born in Spain) and youngest is 13, and is the only one born in Australia.

Given he worked in the UK for 4 and a half years whilst a footballer at the highest level and his only break from constant employment has been when he stood down as a manager of Brisbane Roar after having a heart attack, I fail to see how he wouldn't qualify for a work visa?

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, Vidal said:

There are a number of flaws with your Argument.
Firstly, there was little training done between Tuesday and Thursday, and the decision to play Tanner wasn’t based on a change in performance, training levels (which are good) and attitude (which is I’m told is also good), but due to the failings against West Brom. 

Secondly, if the players in their natural position are hopelessly out of form than it’s up to NP to get the right square peg in the round hole, again Weimann proved to be the wrong one.

Thirdly, where has NP said anything about Tanner and Sykes and their quality of training? Can you point me to a link highlighting that they haven’t been the “required standard”?

The point I'm making is a point came where Nigel clearly draw a line in the sand and set a benchmark. That's the culture change that has been much spoken about. 

We don't know what happens at the HPC. Nigel does. So therefore if he's playing Weimann at RWB instead of Sykes, then I'm sure he has a very good reason to do so. Sykes hasn't been the same since his red card. Pearson probably has a better idea of why than us. 

Nigel made some comments about Tanner in a recent interview where its clear he likes him but said something about the fact that he is still young and learning his trade in this league.

The red card against Sheffield was unfortunate as I think he was just getting to the point where he had the opportunity to establish himself. He now has that chance again. I hope he takes it. 

But what's clear now is that we now don't play players if they don't reach the required standards. I love that. We've had far too many lazy players here over the years picking up a good wage and enjoying the cosy life in Bristol. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, robinforlife2 said:

I think he would get a work permit. I mean he has been a player at the highest level in 4 countries, outside his country of birth. He spent 4 and a half years in England so he would have previously had a work permit and didn't have any problems over here, so no reason why he wouldn't be able to return. 

He married in England in the UK in 1999 whilst living in England, and she had lived here since completing uni in the UK, so I don't know if she is English or an English citizen? But I suspect this may qualify him alone and his eldest daughter is 22 born in the UK, his second daughter is 19 (born in Spain) and youngest is 13, and is the only one born in Australia.

Given he worked in the UK for 4 and a half years whilst a footballer at the highest level and his only break from constant employment has been when he stood down as a manager of Brisbane Roar after having a heart attack, I fail to see how he wouldn't qualify for a work visa?

Unless he got settled status whilst here or through his wife, daughter, this kind of stuff, his playing career (previous immigration activity) may count for bugger all under the new GBE WP rules for managers, where A-League is Band 6.  I keep pointing that out to you, hence the questions.

The answer is neither of us know, but the GBE rules are out there.

Out of interest why do you think he's not made the step into England or Europe previously?

 

[robinforlife2]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Unless he got settled status whilst here or through his wife, daughter, this kind of stuff, his playing career (previous immigration activity) may count for bugger all under the new GBE WP rules for managers, where A-League is Band 6.  I keep pointing that out to you, hence the questions.

The answer is neither of us know, but the GBE rules are out there.

Out of interest why do you think he's not made the step into England or Europe previously?

 

I would imagine young family settled in Aus, but 2 of them are left school and one is at UNI in the UK , so maybe now could be a time he would consider it.

He also had bad health issues twice, once when he left Melbourne Heart and had time out, before turning Victory's youth team around. He nearly turned down the Brisbane Roar job, but he was convinced to take it by Beshart Berisa and turned them around. He then stood down when he had a heart attack and was asked to come in for one year for Western United, he done one year and won the league. He then agreed to stay on for this season, but he wasn't too happy with events off the pitch, but he spoke how he wouldn't let the fans down and wanted to prove he could win the title again with a weaker side.

He has come out in the last 2 weeks and openly said if Graham Arnold stands down he wants the Socceroos job as it would be his ultimate honour.

But whether GA or not would step down I don't know. The media and players in AUS all want him installed as the Socceroos manager.

But part of me thinks that he is ambitious, and he is still young, and with his health issues behind him, daughter at Uni in the UK, he might be tempted by a Championship / Premier League club.

I personally get the impression he is a very proud Aussie and he feels its his duty to lead them. Read the articles on fan issues and attacks in the A League, where he has defended the league, spoken up for the league, when no other manager has.

There is a chance he is settled out there and may not want to leave a good thing, as even if the Socceroo job doesn't come his way, you can guarantee the next big job in Aus has his name on it, but as a player he wanted to play in England. Terry Venaballs convinced him to come over to Portsmouth, and then he joined Coventry and he was on the verge of signing for Crystal Palace, when he was approached by a La Liga side and he fancied a new challenge. 

I suspect he may be settled, but he is definitely someone who should be on the radar if he is eligible.