Nigel Pearson

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I don’t think it’s a case of people being against the culture change: it’s more questioning whether Nigel Pearson is the man to achieve that culture change while keeping our heads above water.  I think fans have been remarkably stoical, given many of our performances on the field since Pearson took charge.  At other clubs, fans protest and managers get sacked after a handful of games.

SL isn’t  the type to sack managers after run of poor games - we saw that in the way he supported LJ to whom he showed tremendous patience when many fans were calling for his head. He’s also very keen on keeping the club on a stable footing and sacking the manager and all his backroom staff causes a huge upheaval and destabilises the club.

SL also knows that Nige is developing a new culture throughout the entire club and that takes time but  it certainly didn’t help last season when invisible Jon commented that he thought Nige would have made further progress……..…….

Unless City enter the with drop zone and are running out of games then SL will stick by Nige. 

[Davefevs]

I know this was posted before, but…

…it’s interesting listening back.  This was originally posted more than 18 months ago, just after he got the job permanently on a 3 year deal.  Not gonna argue that progress is a bit slower than I expected, but this guy got his insight spot on.

This guy has just done one on Dean Holden too.  That’s worth a listen too.

[nebristolred]

On 16/01/2023 at 08:06, Red DNA said:

A lot of it is down to the demography of the people posting? A generation (or two) who don’t bother saving for something and get instant credit and want everything now. No patience and no understanding that if it was that easy everyone would be changing managers every few months - like on Football Manager etc.

For every daft and impatient Gen Z'er there will be a daft and impatient boomer. You always hear of stupid fans saying 'I've had a season ticket for 30 years and I've had enough, until we get a new manager I'm out', and stuff like that.

The world as a whole definitely wants everything a lot quicker, but it's just a football fan thing, not a generational thing.

Edited January 16, 2023 by nebristolred

[AshtonGreat]

On 15/01/2023 at 23:30, Robbored said:

SL isn’t  the type to sack managers after run of poor games - we saw that in the way he supported LJ to whom he showed tremendous patience when many fans were calling for his head. He’s also very keen on keeping the club on a stable footing and sacking the manager and all his backroom staff causes a huge upheaval and destabilises the club.

SL also knows that Nige is developing a new culture throughout the entire club and that takes time but  it certainly didn’t help last season when invisible Jon commented that he thought Nige would have made further progress……..…….

Unless City enter the with drop zone and are running out of games then SL will stick by Nige. 

Isn’t SOD supposed to have developed a new culture throughout the club about 10 years ago? 

[CliftonCliff]

39 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Isn’t SOD supposed to have developed a new culture throughout the club about 10 years ago? 

He began that task, yes, but wasn’t here anywhere near long enough to bring it to fruition, because the people who appointed him then decided to sack him. SOD has been vilified by the majority of OTIB members. Only a few of the more balanced views acknowledge that he did some quite important work in his relatively short tenure. More recently, the realisation has finally spread more widely that most of the club’s problems have for a long time had their origins not in the office of successive managers, but in the boardroom, which is why the idea of sacking Pearson is, frankly, just plain dumb.

[Robbored]

57 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

Isn’t SOD supposed to have developed a new culture throughout the club about 10 years ago? 

Playing style rather than culture of the club was SoDs remit. Unfortunately for him his obstinacy pissed off many including SL particularly when SL wanted to take the players on a safari and play against local team in Botswana but SoD wouldn’t allow it - that was pretty much the end of him at AG.

[Phileas Fogg]

On 15/01/2023 at 21:06, Red DNA said:

A lot of it is down to the demography of the people posting? A generation (or two) who don’t bother saving for something and get instant credit and want everything now.

The gall to say this when the cost of living and particularly housing market is so unfairly weighted in favour of older generations!

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The gall to say this when the cost of living and particularly housing market is so unfairly weighted in favour of older generations!

It’s always been that way PF - I well remember us struggling to save a deposit over 40 years ago. Fortunately it was before my kids were born.

Bricks and mortar are the best investment but like many older generations they’re asset rich but cash poor.

[fatchers]

Too true Robbered . The older generation were young too. We struggled to get a deposit together to afford a mortgage, then slowly managed to furnish it with luxuries like Heating, a fridge freezer, a colour TV, a washing machine,carpets etc. Then the kids came along ..The now generation want the house,all mod cons, the top of the range mobile phone and all the latest gear, and when do they want it ?  NOW.  They then moan that the older generation have it easy. After 55 years of working ( shift work.days,nights, weekends and 12 hour shifts ) and contributing to a pension, you could save , yes I have it easy. With many thanks to Hargreaves Lansdown too.

 

 

 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, CliftonCliff said:

He began that task, yes, but wasn’t here anywhere near long enough to bring it to fruition, because the people who appointed him then decided to sack him. SOD has been vilified by the majority of OTIB members. Only a few of the more balanced views acknowledge that he did some quite important work in his relatively short tenure. More recently, the realisation has finally spread more widely that most of the club’s problems have for a long time had their origins not in the office of successive managers, but in the boardroom, which is why the idea of sacking Pearson is, frankly, just plain dumb.

Exactly. He was what we needed at the time, he sugar-coated nothing and was pretty undiplomatic at times.. but many of the core of the double winning side were signed by him on a relative shoestring.

That said, I don't believe he had the galvanising style that Cotterill clearly did in order to win us the double. But on the flip side, I don't believe Cotterill would've done the unenviable task of steadying the sinking ship as effectively. 

The appointments the Lansdowns and board have made over the years have been criticised, often justly, but these two were ones they got right for the jobs required at the time. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Phileas Fogg

[Phileas Fogg]

25 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s always been that way PF - I well remember us struggling to save a deposit over 40 years ago. Fortunately it was before my kids were born.

Bricks and mortar are the best investment but like many older generations they’re asset rich but cash poor.

Not really, the average house price now is (relative to salaries) far higher than it was in years gone by. It's obviously much harder for younger generations to get on the property ladder, and they're not cash rich either due to wages not rising with inflation.

Not the thread for such a discussion, but the Tory government knows many older voters will vote for them until they give them a reason not to - so it won't change until the Tories are out. 

[pongo88]

46 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s always been that way PF - I well remember us struggling to save a deposit over 40 years ago. Fortunately it was before my kids were born.

Bricks and mortar are the best investment but like many older generations they’re asset rich but cash poor.

It’s not quite as you say. The price of my first house, bought in the 70s, was approximately 4 or 5 times average salary. The same house today is approximately 15 times average salary. My current house, bought 25 years ago, has increased in value by approximately 600% but average salaries haven’t increased by anything like that in the same period. The high house prices, relative to salary, mean that mortgage are a far higher percentage of salary than they were in the past. 

[jj77]

37 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not really, the average house price now is (relative to salaries) far higher than it was in years gone by. It's obviously much harder for younger generations to get on the property ladder, and they're not cash rich either due to wages not rising with inflation.

Not the thread for such a discussion, but the Tory government knows many older voters will vote for them until they give them a reason not to - so it won't change until the Tories are out. 

House prices were high when Labour were in Government not all that long ago.

Also I'm old enough to remember when a VHS, TV, and a Personal Computer cost about 6 months wages.

[Davefevs]

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, fatchers said:

Too true Robbered . The older generation were young too. We struggled to get a deposit together to afford a mortgage, then slowly managed to furnish it with luxuries like Heating, a fridge freezer, a colour TV, a washing machine,carpets etc. Then the kids came along ..The now generation want the house,all mod cons, the top of the range mobile phone and all the latest gear, and when do they want it ?  NOW.  They then moan that the older generation have it easy. After 55 years of working ( shift work.days,nights, weekends and 12 hour shifts ) and contributing to a pension, you could save , yes I have it easy. With many thanks to Hargreaves Lansdown too.

Is this... satire?  

[Phileas Fogg]

Apologies for derailing the thread here, can take it to the Politics forum if people wish. Genuinely amazed how out of touch some of the posts on this topic are though. 

[pongo88]

46 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I just knew you would have a chart to illustrate the point 

[redsince1994]

15 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Is this... satire?  

It does feel like a copy paste of every unfounded criticism of younger people.

My 2 cents. Even in the last year buying a house has become unreachable for so many more people, prices have been outstripping salaries forever, but it has been insane post covid.

I was able to buy my first house in April last year, even in a cheaper part of the country it was £55k more than it's last sale price 16 months earlier. We had been saving for a long time, making sacrifices and being realistic with the houses we looked at and we still needed some help from our parents. We were so lucky that it was an option, this isn't feasible for so many people.

The "stop paying for netflix & avocado toast" mantra is even more outdated than it was as recently as 2019.

Edit: another thing I have heard is "houses were cheaper but interest rates were higher", now interest rates have tripled its hard to see how anyone can genuinely afford to buy their first home in their 20s.

Edited January 17, 2023 by redsince1994

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Playing style rather than culture of the club was SoDs remit. Unfortunately for him his obstinacy pissed off many including SL particularly when SL wanted to take the players on a safari and play against local team in Botswana but SoD wouldn’t allow it - that was pretty much the end of him at AG.

I think you'll find that his inability on the field was pretty much the end of him not the reluctance to play a local team in Botswana. No manager under SL has been sacked whilst doing well in the League although LJ comes closest comparative to the others- his problem was failing to make the play offs despite massive investment .

I think Richard Gould's recent interview set out the BCFC position quite clearly: Driving wage bill down, staying clear of FFP breach whilst reducing all losses and now 70% of the way there, no incomings without outgoing players, and no revolution which I took as a direct reference to NP's position.

As for your comment that Nige will likely stay safe unless we move into the drop zone with few games left- the time for appointing a new manager has now come and gone and sacking NP with few games left would be more symbolic than anything unless the players downed tools and there's no sign of that. NP has just  a year left on his contract so we'll see what SL is thinking before too long .

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, redsince1994 said:

It does feel like a copy paste of every unfounded criticism of younger people.

My 2 cents. Even in the last year buying a house has become unreachable for so many more people, prices have been outstripping salaries forever, but it has been insane post covid.

I was able to buy my first house in April last year, even in a cheaper part of the country it was £55k more than it's last sale price 16 months earlier. We had been saving for a long time, making sacrifices and being realistic with the houses we looked at and we still needed some help from our parents. We were so lucky that it was an option, this isn't feasible for so many people.

The "stop paying for netflix & avocado toast" mantra is even more outdated than it was as recently as 2019.

Edit: another thing I have heard is "houses were cheaper but interest rates were higher", now interest rates have tripled its hard to see how anyone can genuinely afford to buy their first home in their 20s.

I don’t disagree with you, but just on your final point, when I bought my first house income rates were 15%.

[redsince1994]

2 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I don’t disagree with you, but just on your final point, when I bought my first house income rates were 15%.

100%, blanket statements that houses were "cheap" in the past are oversimplifying, but lower prices at higher interest rates makes it more realistic to get on the ladder even if in real terms mortgages were still incredibly expensive.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, redsince1994 said:

100%, blanket statements that houses were "cheap" in the past are oversimplifying, but lower prices at higher interest rates makes it more realistic to get on the ladder even if in real terms mortgages were still incredibly expensive.

Explain this then? This is showing you that in real terms is far more expensive now. 

[1team]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Apologies for derailing the thread here, can take it to the Politics forum if people wish. Genuinely amazed how out of touch some of the posts on this topic are though. 

Why amazed. The Tories keep getting elected which tells you all you need to know.

[redsince1994]

18 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Explain this then? This is showing you that in real terms is far more expensive now. 

Yes i agree - i was responding to a previous post about 15% interest rates. Deposits and that were far far more affordable, but banks were still greedy and mortgages were still tough for normal people.

[ExiledAjax]

Pearson out. I want my housing market back.

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I don’t disagree with you, but just on your final point, when I bought my first house income rates were 15%.

Yep - that was the interest rate when we bought our first house.

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

I think you'll find that his inability on the field was pretty much the end of him not the reluctance to play a local team in Botswana. No manager under SL has been sacked whilst doing well in the League although LJ comes closest comparative to the others- his problem was failing to make the play offs despite massive investment .

I think Richard Gould's recent interview set out the BCFC position quite clearly: Driving wage bill down, staying clear of FFP breach whilst reducing all losses and now 70% of the way there, no incomings without outgoing players, and no revolution which I took as a direct reference to NP's position.

As for your comment that Nige will likely stay safe unless we move into the drop zone with few games left- the time for appointing a new manager has now come and gone and sacking NP with few games left would be more symbolic than anything unless the players downed tools and there's no sign of that. NP has just  a year left on his contract so we'll see what SL is thinking before too long .

Things would surprise me less than Nige "seeing the job through" (you may disagree on what you judge the success of seeing the job through but that's a different discussion) i.e. get us through this period where relatively speaking we don't have a pot to piss in largely intact and then being unable or perhaps even unwilling to agree a new contract either because he decides he doesn't want/need it or the club decide to go in a different direction once the financial situation is fully under control and we are competitive again.

It's been mentioned a lot on here - it does feel like a re-run of the SOD era but without us getting battered every week..............whoever takes over next should be in a lot better position than both Holden and Pearson were.

[Davefevs]

[bcfc01]

On 15/01/2023 at 09:48, Swede said:

He says it as it is and I like the passion.  The last time I heard passionate comments like this was back in Cotts time. I recall the swindle away & home  after match interviews as examples.

Proper manager working under considerable financial constraints and we're lucky to have him.

Back on topic (theres a forum for politics isn't there) ?

My first choice when LJ left but lost a bit of confidence in him when he persisted with round pegs in square holes and getting similar results.

But second half Swansea and the Birmingham game has given me a bit of confidence back, albeit only one and a half games.

I hope he sticks to selecting players in their strongest positions and doesn't revert back to things like King at centre back, Scott or Weimann at WB, etc.

 

[ExiledAjax]

39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

This is Pearson's cumulative win rate plotted against the xG differential between Naismith's PPDA and Wells' Shot/Shots on target ratio isn't it? Thanks, had been meaning to make that myself.