Olé Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 39 minutes ago, 2015 said: Absolutely dire wasn't it? Yes. Clearly a nice bloke but I've never understood the retrospective love in and general rose-tinted affection people now have for him. Spectacularly over promoted and by the end presided over monumentally bad football which as others have said, created zero chances. Just after he left I created this view which I called the Ineptness Index (Shots on Target - Goals Conceded). If that's negative you're ****. Not only did we set an all time championship record for fewest shots in a season, this was his "football" in the context of prior 5 seasons: 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 17 minutes ago, chinapig said: Well, Kalas was pretty angry in his post match interview. He knew perfectly well we had been massively outplayed and got away with it. Said something along the lines of we can't go on playing like that. When asked who would win the upcoming game (Derby away I think) he said the team that is coached better. Pretty revealing stuff! Didn’t he say something like “it’s like waiting for death”! One game later Paul Simpson said something like “we can’t sort it out”. Dean was rather naive during his stint here. It showed how reliant we were on 3 outfield players at the time. Mawson, Weimann and Paterson. All got injured. I do think the early season form was over-achieving and unsustainable, but I think with those three players we’d have been much better than we were without them. Bentley the other player who was excelling, although he was getting lots of practice! This is where you see how good players influence and raise the levels of others. And then you see the likes of Bakinson, Nagy, O’Dowda without them and they can’t raise their own games let alone any of their teammates. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 If he was any good he’d still be here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, Olé said: Yes. Clearly a nice bloke but I've never understood the retrospective love in and general rose-tinted affection people now have for him. Spectacularly over promoted and by the end presided over monumentally bad football which as others have said, created zero chances. Just after he left I created this view which I called the Ineptness Index (Shots on Target - Goals Conceded). If that's negative you're ****. Not only did we set an all time championship record for fewest shots in a season, this was his "football" in the context of prior 5 seasons: I’d love to see the opposite view. Shots on target (by opposition) minus goals scored by us….plotted similarly and then on top of each other. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveF Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Vidal said: When he went it was up there with Mciness levels of horror. Had to go. It was the worst football in the near 30 years I've been watching. I became completely disinterested and felt like I didn't really care anymore. Edited January 15, 2023 by DaveF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I’d love to see the opposite view. Shots on target (by opposition) minus goals scored by us….plotted similarly and then on top of each other. Can you imagine that graph! Considering on average per game we allowed 4.3 on target in 20/21 under Holden, and scored 0.96. The numbers @Olé shows are based on an average of 2.87 shots on target by us against 1.37 goals conceded. So the opposite graph would be dramatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Can you imagine that graph! Considering on average per game we allowed 4.3 on target in 20/21 under Holden, and scored 0.96. The numbers @Olé shows are based on an average of 2.87 shots on target by us against 1.37 goals conceded. So the opposite graph would be dramatic. That’s why I want to see it. The y-axis use of zero to define blue or red is slightly misleading imho. Would like to see the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olé Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I do think the early season form was over-achieving and unsustainable Don't forget it coincided with Tyreeq Bakinson sitting in midfield spraying forward passes around like peak Xavi, something that came as a surprise to us fans, let alone the opposition who wouldn't have scouted him much nor prepared for that. The minute teams got wise (from memory Boro / Warnock were the first to target him) and his form invariably deteriorated (i.e. he stopped being able to pass to a teammate and lost all confidence), the Holden-ball era was as good as over. He switched in Chris Brunt (remember him!) a clapped out pensioner with all the running of a stone who couldn't manage more than one game a month and from them on he was fiddling around for any plan that might work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 28 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: So I should probably caveat my post - I'm not saying that we are off on a run of 10 wins and all our woes are over. Rather that I think we might get up to 1.3 PPG and a slight rise up the table. If you want false dawn's yesterday then look no further than Rotherham. Definitely. Our false dawn earlier this season was followed by one point in six games. The season before with three points in six games. That’s what we have to change. And actually I think you could look at the last two away draws as part of this dawn. As you say it’s not about 10 wins, it’s about turning a couple of defeats into draws, a win instead of a draw. (See, I am glass half full) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 7 minutes ago, Olé said: Don't forget it coincided with Tyreeq Bakinson sitting in midfield spraying forward passes around like peak Xavi, something that came as a surprise to us fans, let alone the opposition who wouldn't have scouted him much nor prepared for that. The minute teams got wise (from memory Boro / Warnock were the first to target him) and his form invariably deteriorated (i.e. he stopped being able to pass to a teammate and lost all confidence), the Holden-ball era was as good as over. He switched in Chris Brunt (remember him!) a clapped out pensioner with all the running of a stone who couldn't manage more than one game a month and from them on he was fiddling around for any plan that might work. Chris Brunt. Good grief. I’d forgotten about him. Why did you have to remind me? And how come he never made it onto that recent thread about departing players we were most upset to,lose? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 Just watching the EFL highlights show. Apparently Holden has repeated his little "trip to the pub" visit in south-east London. Fair play to the guy for getting a win yesterday, three in a row in the league for him apparently and I think he left Old Trafford with his head held high. Always wish him well, but he was never going to succeed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 He’s exaggerating there a tad isn’t he?The football was absolutely dross, barely any attempts at goal, corners etc. The entertainment value was at an all time low… Not only that, but he shouldn’t have been anywhere near the job in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 15 minutes ago, Olé said: Don't forget it coincided with Tyreeq Bakinson sitting in midfield spraying forward passes around like peak Xavi, something that came as a surprise to us fans, let alone the opposition who wouldn't have scouted him much nor prepared for that. The minute teams got wise (from memory Boro / Warnock were the first to target him) and his form invariably deteriorated (i.e. he stopped being able to pass to a teammate and lost all confidence), the Holden-ball era was as good as over. He switched in Chris Brunt (remember him!) a clapped out pensioner with all the running of a stone who couldn't manage more than one game a month and from them on he was fiddling around for any plan that might work. I haven’t forgotten!! I was the one pushing caution over Bakinson in those first half a dozen games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhamred Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 There were also no fans due to lockdown during his time here. So there was no crowd reaction to the standard of play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 The only remaining question is what Manager would we have ended up with had Steve, Mark and Jon Boy not gone through a rigorous recruitment process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tin Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 2 hours ago, DaveF said: It was the worst football in the near 30 years I've been watching. I became completely disinterested and felt like I didn't really care anymore. Spot on, and you’ve been following the City for the same length of time as me. I don’t even recall times under Osman, Pulis, McInnes or SOD stooping to the lows we experienced under Holden. We were nicking wins early on, bar the win at Stoke which was the high of his time here, and there was no excuse for no shots at all — and that wasn’t a one-off. He should never have got the job IMO and we were relegation fodder at the time he went. As others have said, nice bloke but he’s a bit delusional in that interview. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said: I don't blame him for much. Some of the decisions around injuries and things like that yes, but I don't think he had much choice regarding general tactics and how we played. Him being given the job was like asking a plumber to fix your pipes and giving him a toothbrush and a stuffed squirrel as the tools to do it with. Yeah, it was mark ashtons yes man who was responsible for injury rehab,,, what was his name again?? Ended up going to ipswich i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledAjax Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 1 minute ago, Simon bristol said: Yeah, it was mark ashtons yes man who was responsible for injury rehab,,, what was his name again?? Ended up going to ipswich i think Andy Rolls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon bristol Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said: Andy Rolls. Oh god,,, i recoiled at that name then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted January 15, 2023 Report Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) Eliasson and CO’D played centre mid. Said hardly anything to the players after losses. Allowed a culture of basically doing whatever you wanted and not doing things you didn’t want to do. Allowed Ashton to plough us full of horrific signings, aka dying for a wing back and then signed Lansbury. Said before, he was a nice guy but ultimately the culture under his tenure set us back probably 3-4 years. Edited January 15, 2023 by petehinton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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