Southampton academy/ louis Carey involvement

[Will Rollason]

Linky

Hmmm... they're still hoovering up the talent then.... but struggling to get academy lads into the first team..

[2015]

Disappointing he is helping their academy system and not ours but never mind, still a legend as a player here.

[Phantom]

16 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Disappointing he is helping their academy system and not ours but never mind, still a legend as a player here.

He's been with the Saints a few years now 

[Mr X]

If I was a teenager and offered terms by City or Southampton I'd definitely pick City with our current pathway from the academy into the first team. If you'd asked the same question 10 years ago I would have picked Southampton before the question had even been finished. 

[Mendip City]

20 minutes ago, phantom said:

He's been with the Saints a few years now 

And if I remember rightly it was a deliberate decision on his part to get experience elsewhere rather than being part of the furniture here.

Obviously it would be good to see him back here, in some capacity, one day. 

[SBB]

They also have Matty Hale as academy director.

[Boston Red]

Lansdown and Carey fell out when after the 2004 play off final, they offered Carey a smaller contract. He was furious, claiming he was a loyal servant of the club who deserved better, and doubly furious when new players, who had done nothing for the club, were coming in on more. He said his bit, went to Coventry, and then they had to offer him a rise anyway to get him back. So he is not one of Steve's favourites like Tinnion, Murray, Millen, Johnson, Holden, which is why he has never been offered a job here. Carey explained this on a Stanley podcast, I think. He still sounded furious about it!!!

[petehinton]

Louis got promoted just before Christmas. He’s basically now the Head of transition for u18/23s players that begin training with the first team, so aids their comfort in making the step up. Is based at the first team base now, so commuting from Bristol to Southampton every day…

We’ve still a way to reach their levels of player treatment, IMHO. Any youth player who signs for them is made mascot for the first first team home game thereafter, family put in a box for it, etc etc. Many official scouting and coaching CPD training is hosted by them these days too.

They are an incredible club and so well run, albeit seem to have ran their course this season & loads of senior people have left as a result. 

That said, generally speaking we haven’t lost many players to them in recent years through of scouting or otherwise. Will Armitage (Portishead lad) got passed on by us, ended at Cheltenham then signed by Saints for £200k last year. Alfie Jones (Long Ashton), went straight to Saints now  without being looked at by us, playing every week for Hull which massively grinds my gears but can’t win ‘em all. 

[BCFC Rich]

19 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Will Armitage (Portishead lad) got passed on by us, ended at Cheltenham then signed by Saints for £200k last year. 

Worth also noting Alex Scott did the opposite of Armitage. Having been in their academy and being released before coming here. 

[slartibartfast]

I expect to get some pushback, BUT, I've never really warmed to Carey (as a person, I mean ). I don't know why......I don't know him per say, but he just comes across as a bit edgy ,to me.

I think probably what it is , when he said years ago that he would support Liverpool over City if he wasn't employed by the club. Maybe it's me being a bit touchy , but you can't help who you actually like and feel an affinity towards  .

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Louis got promoted just before Christmas. He’s basically now the Head of transition for u18/23s players that begin training with the first team, so aids their comfort in making the step up. Is based at the first team base now, so commuting from Bristol to Southampton every day…

We’ve still a way to reach their levels of player treatment, IMHO. Any youth player who signs for them is made mascot for the first first team home game thereafter, family put in a box for it, etc etc. Many official scouting and coaching CPD training is hosted by them these days too.

They are an incredible club and so well run, albeit seem to have ran their course this season & loads of senior people have left as a result. 

That said, generally speaking we haven’t lost many players to them in recent years through of scouting or otherwise. Will Armitage (Portishead lad) got passed on by us, ended at Cheltenham then signed by Saints for £200k last year. Alfie Jones (Long Ashton), went straight to Saints now  without being looked at by us, playing every week for Hull which massively grinds my gears but can’t win ‘em all. 

I had no idea Jones was a Bristol lad.

53 minutes ago, BCFC Rich said:

Worth also noting Alex Scott did the opposite of Armitage. Having been in their academy and being released before coming here. 

As were Acey and Backwell too.

[PHILINFRANCE]

2 hours ago, Boston Red said:

Lansdown and Carey fell out when after the 2004 play off final, they offered Carey a smaller contract. He was furious, claiming he was a loyal servant of the club who deserved better, and doubly furious when new players, who had done nothing for the club, were coming in on more. He said his bit, went to Coventry, and then they had to offer him a rise anyway to get him back. So he is not one of Steve's favourites like Tinnion, Murray, Millen, Johnson, Holden, which is why he has never been offered a job here. Carey explained this on a Stanley podcast, I think. He still sounded furious about it!!!

A particular bugbear of mine, but all the more infuriating when, due to numerous last minute substitute appearances, he became the holder of City's record appearances.

I understand that the two Steves, Lansdown and Cotterill, were not the best of pals either, but I am sure that this had no bearing on John Atyeo's record being usurped.  

53 minutes ago, slartibartfast said:

I expect to get some pushback, BUT, I've never really warmed to Carey (as a person, I mean ). I don't know why......I don't know him per say, but he just comes across as a bit edgy ,to me.

I think probably what it is , when he said years ago that he would support Liverpool over City if he wasn't employed by the club. Maybe it's me being a bit touchy , but you can't help who you actually like and feel an affinity towards  .

I have heard various comments from LC that leave me less than warm to him, and as for his insistence on wearing a hat indoors....

Oh, and I am sure Miss Taylor would be asking you to describe your friend Percy .

[slartibartfast]

8 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

A particular bugbear of mine, but all the more infuriating when, due to numerous last minute substitute appearances, he became the holder of City's record appearances.

I understand that the two Steves, Lansdown and Cotterill, were not the best of pals either, but I am sure that this had no bearing on John Atyeo's record being usurped.  

I have heard various comments from LC that leave me less than warm to him, and as for his insistence on wearing a hat indoors....

Oh, and I am sure Miss Taylor would be asking you to describe your friend Percy .

Not my fault, I don't speak French as well as wot you do !

[NcnsBcfc]

Am I right in saying that LC has never had a proper testimonial from the club?

I'm sure there was various events to recognise him hitting the record, but no big game. If so, that's some indictment on how the club hierarchy see him

Christ I still remember going away to York City for his debut (1-0 win Kevin Nugent, I think).

[Carey 6]

3 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Am I right in saying that LC has never had a proper testimonial from the club?

I'm sure there was various events to recognise him hitting the record, but no big game. If so, that's some indictment on how the club hierarchy see him

Christ I still remember going away to York City for his debut (1-0 win Kevin Nugent, I think).

Had a testimonial against the Gas didn’t he? 

[NcnsBcfc]

7 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Had a testimonial against the Gas didn’t he? 

Did he? 

Was it a proper one, or a half hearted "we have to do something" affair?

 

[Charlie BCFC]

8 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Did he? 

Was it a proper one, or a half hearted "we have to do something" affair?

 

Proper testimonial, think we won 3-0?

[LondonBristolian]

7 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Did he? 

Was it a proper one, or a half hearted "we have to do something" affair?

 

I’m not really sure what the distinction is but it was an all-ticket pre season friendly against Rovers where we fielded the first team or near enough. I don’t know the attendance but I suspect it was large for a pre season game but smaller than a competitive match. Compared to any other testimonial I can think of, I can’t see how it could be described as “half hearted”.

[NcnsBcfc]

Just now, LondonBristolian said:

I’m not really sure what the distinction is but it was an all-ticket pre season friendly against Rovers where we fielded the first team or near enough. I don’t know the attendance but I suspect it was large for a pre season game but smaller than a competitive match. Compared to any other testimonial I can think of, I can’t see how it could be described as “half hearted”.

Fair enough, I wasn't sure. 

[AshtonRobin21]

9 hours ago, petehinton said:

That said, generally speaking we haven’t lost many players to them in recent years through of scouting or otherwise. Will Armitage (Portishead lad) got passed on by us, ended at Cheltenham then signed by Saints for £200k last year. Alfie Jones (Long Ashton), went straight to Saints now  without being looked at by us, playing every week for Hull which massively grinds my gears but can’t win ‘em all. 

Alfie Jones left Southampton on bad terms, I was told. He went out on loan to Gillingham, and upon returning they knew next to nothing about how he performed. 

Should have been on our radar, but at the same time, Southamptons network was thriving at this time.

Certainly a missed opportunity.

[Portland Bill]

10 hours ago, SBB said:

They also have Matty Hale as academy director.

David Horesman as well.

[Phileas Fogg]

11 hours ago, 2015 said:

Disappointing he is helping their academy system and not ours but never mind, still a legend as a player here.

May be completely wrong - but I believe he and Lee Johnson weren’t on fantastic terms, partly why he ended up at Saints.

Could be Chinese whispers but I get the impression there was also some issue around the way he broke the appearance record that he wasn’t exactly enamoured with either. 

[MarcusX]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

May be completely wrong - but I believe he and Lee Johnson weren’t on fantastic terms, partly why he ended up at Saints.

Could be Chinese whispers but I get the impression there was also some issue around the way he broke the appearance record that he wasn’t exactly enamoured with either. 

He definitely limped across the line, not saying he didn't deserve it but he didn't smash through it in the best of form. Wasn't it a number of late substitutions for his last few appearences?

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 minute ago, MarcusX said:

He definitely limped across the line, not saying he didn't deserve it but he didn't smash through it in the best of form. Wasn't it a number of late substitutions for his last few appearences?

Indeed, and the former holder of the appearance record played at a time when, for the majority of his career, substitutes weren’t even allowed!

[Nogbad the Bad]

8 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

He definitely limped across the line, not saying he didn't deserve it but he didn't smash through it in the best of form. Wasn't it a number of late substitutions for his last few appearences?

I'd say he didn't deserve it.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Nogbad the Bad

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

12 hours ago, Will Rollason said:

Linky

Hmmm... they're still hoovering up the talent then.... but struggling to get academy lads into the first team..

Southampton’s involvement in Bath has been pretty high profile for a long time, and one school in particular has a strong feeder-network to Southampton.  What surprises me is how little attention City pay to kids in Bath.  Admittedly they picked up Zak and Max, but that was ten years ago and very little since then.  One particular youth team in Bath is probably the strongest at its age group in the region outside academies, but only one boy has been offered a trial by City.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

5 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Southampton’s involvement in Bath has been pretty high profile for a long time, and one school in particular has a strong feeder-network to Southampton.  What surprises me is how little attention City pay to kids in Bath.  Admittedly they picked up Zak and Max, but that was ten years ago and very little since then.  One particular youth team in Bath is probably the strongest at its age group in the region outside academies, but only one boy has been offered a trial by City.

And not just Bath but Wiltshire too where they picked up players like Nathan Dyer who my nephew played against as a kid when Nathan played for Trowbridge Tigers. For years Southampton has been the pre-eminent academy in the South and West, much to the chagrin of Pompey supporters, but I'd like to think we can compete with them now. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

10 hours ago, slartibartfast said:

I expect to get some pushback, BUT, I've never really warmed to Carey (as a person, I mean ). I don't know why......I don't know him per say, but he just comes across as a bit edgy ,to me.

I think probably what it is , when he said years ago that he would support Liverpool over City if he wasn't employed by the club. Maybe it's me being a bit touchy , but you can't help who you actually like and feel an affinity towards  .

I've met Louis quite a few times through work at various events. 

I can say that I've never really warmed to him for some reason. Comes across as a bit up himself and obnoxious. I once asked him if he could pass me something and he wasn't best pleased and refused. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I've met Louis quite a few times through work at various events. 

I can say that I've never really warmed to him for some reason. Comes across as a bit up himself and obnoxious. I once asked him if he could pass me something and he wasn't best pleased and refused. 

We’re you more than 5 yards away?

[2015]

18 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Southampton’s involvement in Bath has been pretty high profile for a long time, and one school in particular has a strong feeder-network to Southampton.  What surprises me is how little attention City pay to kids in Bath.  Admittedly they picked up Zak and Max, but that was ten years ago and very little since then.  One particular youth team in Bath is probably the strongest at its age group in the region outside academies, but only one boy has been offered a trial by City.

They're non existent down my way in Wiltshire too. The only guys I know who had trials at clubs was at Southampton or Rovers. Lots of City fans in Wiltshire too.

[KnowleUtd City]

I've met Louis a number of times down the years, including playing 45 mins with him in a charity game for our mate in the summer of 2021 at Parson Street, he's always been absolutely sound as a pound! 

Edited January 19, 2023 by KnowleUtd City

[cidered abroad]

46 minutes ago, KnowleUtd City said:

I've met Louis a number of times down the years, including playing 45 mins with him in a charity game for our mate in the summer of 2021 at Parson Street, he's always been absolutely sound as a pound! 

I have never met Carey so I have no opinion about him as a person.

Where I'm coming from is going back to his last season as a player. A poor side with poor results. Evident from the way the team was clearly separated into two camps. As team captain, was he a leader of one camp? The way that he got his appearances to one more than the greatest Bristol City player of all time with minutes only was appalling. And he was reportedly by those in the know, not welcome by the hierarchy of City at Ashton Gate after he retired.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

2 hours ago, NcnsBcfc said:

Am I right in saying that LC has never had a proper testimonial from the club?

I'm sure there was various events to recognise him hitting the record, but no big game. If so, that's some indictment on how the club hierarchy see him

Christ I still remember going away to York City for his debut (1-0 win Kevin Nugent, I think).

and me 

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

He definitely limped across the line, not saying he didn't deserve it but he didn't smash through it in the best of form. Wasn't it a number of late substitutions for his last few appearences?

Always said he feels embarrassed to have broken the record as he was out the side so long until Cotterill came in and basically shoe horned sub apps in for him to break it 

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Southampton’s involvement in Bath has been pretty high profile for a long time, and one school in particular has a strong feeder-network to Southampton.  What surprises me is how little attention City pay to kids in Bath.  Admittedly they picked up Zak and Max, but that was ten years ago and very little since then.  One particular youth team in Bath is probably the strongest at its age group in the region outside academies, but only one boy has been offered a trial by City.

Pretty much all (well, vast majority) get filtered through to academies after playing at RTCs, in our case BIC (where the Edwards brothers were and a few others), SGS (not technically a talent centre but near enough, Semenyo being there) and North Somerset (the GOAT in the area, where one of their talent scouts has immaculate eyes for players *cough*). Mid-Somerset covers BANES areas, but tbh I’ve not come across many people from there and as you say they only seem to have strong links with Saints given the training base at the uni. 
 

More often than not it’ll just come down to relationship and contacts between the talent centre and clubs in the area, quite rare for club scouts to pick players straight up from grassroots out of nowhere unless they spot someone at a summer tournament whos recently joined From another area or something. 
 

Long & boring way of saying I totally agree. Even the longwell green and keynsham teams I’ve seen are very strong tbat technically fall outside of Bristol area but could train at either mid Somerset or north/BIC
 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

47 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

And he was reportedly by those in the know, not welcome by the hierarchy of City at Ashton Gate after he retired.

Certainly not the case now. I was in hospitality for the Millwall game last season and he was doing the interview rounds, which I assume he gets paid for.

It's true he's not on good terms with Lansdown though. Not just over the move to Coventry because of wage disparity at the club (he re-signed don't forget; so that was resolved to an extent), but also over monies associated with his testimonial. The long and short of it was that he basically made no money from it, and he was not best pleased. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

It's a while since I've looked at this stuff but EPPP and Academy Categories. From memory this is quite heavily weighted towards PL sides.

Category One Academy can give an advantage but those who know more, what tangible advantage if any does EPPP give say Southampton over us in this area? Is that still a thing?

[Nogbad the Bad]

46 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Always said he feels embarrassed to have broken the record as he was out the side so long until Cotterill came in and basically shoe horned sub apps in for him to break it 

Very much doubt that was Cotts' preferred way of doing things without being asked to from above.

If not from SL, maybe JL?

It was no skin off Cotts' nose to put Carey on for a few late sub appearances to break the record if, in doing so, it generated what the club felt would be much needed good publicity.

Always rankled with me though.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Nogbad the Bad

[Rebounder]

Regardless of what he was like off the pitch Louis was quality at times for us and led from the back. Seems he's doing well post playing career, and it's good to go away from what you know like Tinnion eventually did. 

Some people appear more aloof, or find smaller interactions harder to manage. I'd imagine for the role he has now he has to have good interpersonal skills, commitment and boundaries to support the young people in their transition. Good luck to him.

[Selred]

3 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The long and short of it was that he basically made no money from it, and he was not best pleased. 

I'm sure he was struggling on thousands a week...

[Will Rollason]

15 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

 

 and as for his insistence on wearing a hat indoors....

 

I used to be fond of wearing a cap myself till i saw this

Every time i go to wear it i just think.... cock bonnet...

Edited January 19, 2023 by Will Rollason

[Calculus]

4 hours ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Very much doubt that was Cotts' preferred way of doing things without being asked to from above.

If not from SL, maybe JL?

It was no skin off Cotts' nose to put Carey on for a few late sub appearances to break the record if, in doing so, it generated what the club felt would be much needed good publicity.

Always rankled with me though.

Yup, thought it was very poor - particularly the last appearance which had him larking about in midfield for a few minutes.

No doubt Atyeo appeared for many more minutes that Carey and therfore always the leader for appearances to my eye.

[downendcity]

41 minutes ago, Calculus said:

Yup, thought it was very poor - particularly the last appearance which had him larking about in midfield for a few minutes.

No doubt Atyeo appeared for many more minutes that Carey and therfore always the leader for appearances to my eye.

An unbroken 15 year career with City and the club's all time top scorer. Also had 6 England caps and would have had many more, but was dropped by the selectors due to his semi pro status with City at the time. Atyeo turned down the chance to sign for a number of top clubs, both here and abroad, and had he done so would probably have broken to transfer record at the time.

While being a legendary player and a top defender for us I don't think LC's status matches that of Atyeo, and certainly doesn't  justify  his latter  appearances being "manufactured", just so that he could break Atyeo's record.

As far as Southampton's academy is concerned. For too long they seemed to have been well ahead of us in terms of picking up the best young talent in the south west. However, in recent years we seem to have got our act together, with joined up writing right through the club as far as  how the academy fits within the club's long term strategy - both playing and financial. 

There is also a chicken and egg factor at work, so that the crop of youngsters we have seen come though and into the first team over the last fe season's must have an impact on talented youngsters deciding which club to join. As a premier league club, Saints have a lot going for them, but under pressure managers there will tend to be reluctant to turn to untried youngsters, no matter how talented, when premier league survival is at stake. 

On the other hand NP has not only been prepared to do just that, but an increasing number are becoming established regulars in the first team. With such a clear pathway to first team being demonstrated we must be an increasingly attractive club for prospective academy players, even when up againts the likes of Southampton.

If we are able to attract more talented players to start with, then there is an even beter chance that with our academy set up, more of them will be able to push for first team consideration, and so the chicken and egg process continues.