Man City - no, not tickets, but dodgy stuff…as if!!!

[downendcity]

As I'm sure has already been mentioned, you can bet that Man City's ( very expensive) lawyers will tie them up with legal wrangling for ever, at the end of which it is almost certain that a "deal" will be done, resulting in a "huge" fine, which will be a drop in the ocean of oil to their owners.

The number of offences ( 100?), that almost certainly huge amounts of money have been hidden, the almost certain advantage this has given over other teams ( some of whom were probably just not as good at financial shenanigans as Man City!), the success they achieved as a result  and the fact that Man City have been obstructive to the enquiry over such a long period should see the book thrown at them - minimum of a massive points deduction, if not relegation to the championship ( as happened to Juve for financial irregularities.

Oh, and once we have played them in the cup and enjoyed the revenue then, if they win, the result should be expunged

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

Unless UEFA do something I cannot see the Commission handing down any stringent measures. Cynical perhaps but unlike Roman Abramovich and the Russian connections this affects the Abu Dhabi deputy PM a member of their Royal Family. Middle Eastern investment in the UK is huge and, while it will be officily denied, expect some subtle pressure to be applied to arrive at an acceptable (to them) result. The Arab League sticks together and a sleight on one is a slight on them all. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by RoystonFoote'snephew
Added content

[exAtyeoMax]

56 minutes ago, spudski said:

Honest question...does anyone not think this goes on in football at many many clubs across the world?

We only talk about it, when there are investigations. 

Surely we attend games and pay for our subscriptions knowing full well corruption is most likely a common theme throughout the sport.

The same with Government. We know they are all corrupt yet we keep voting for them. 

Surely no one is surprised? 

The rich get richer...get found out, often get away with it, or a slap on the wrist, tomorrows chip paper...whilst the fan or voter moans about it, knowing deep down it goes on, yet continues to support it.

Funny ol' world.

 

 

I don’t think anyone is shocked about the alleged fraud itself, more shocked that the PL is actually charging them

There are times in a GE when voting numbers are really low

[Curr Avon]

28 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Relegation to the Championship?

No, League One. Damn, they'd be back in 2 Sheikhs.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, Curr Avon said:

No, League One. Damn, they'd be back in 2 Sheikhs.

That would be hilarious! Just like the old days…

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Winterstoke toad said:

Ah I see 

Neves did seem one hell of a mad signing for a championship team 

I think with Neves it was a case of “if we don’t go up, we will sell him for a good amount that won’t leave us out of pocket”.  They used a few loans too.

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, Winterstoke toad said:

Ah I see 

Neves did seem one hell of a mad signing for a championship team 

Porto's youngest ever CL captain. Yes that's an interesting one...£15m fee 5 year deal was it  in theory amortisation- that's more like the Reading loans on favourable terms from Chelsea from what we know IMO, although one wonders what kind of wages Neves in 2017 should command.

£15m fee, 5 year deal- that aspect isn't too concerning really, amortisation at £3m a year. Expansive but not reckless (at that time).

Edited February 6, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[cider-manc]

52 minutes ago, spudski said:

Honest question...does anyone not think this goes on in football at many many clubs across the world?

We only talk about it, when there are investigations. 

Surely we attend games and pay for our subscriptions knowing full well corruption is most likely a common theme throughout the sport.

The same with Government. We know they are all corrupt yet we keep voting for them. 

Surely no one is surprised? 

The rich get richer...get found out, often get away with it, or a slap on the wrist, tomorrows chip paper...whilst the fan or voter moans about it, knowing deep down it goes on, yet continues to support it.

Funny ol' world.

 

 

I think everyone knows.

The truth is that it shows the failings in the current FFP rules. While they were set up with the best intentions to prevent the next Portsmouth (perhaps....) and to have a level playing field, they essentially keep the status quo going unless the likes of manchester city cook the books a little.

Manchester united (whilst always a huge club) were able to over spend in the late 80s early 90s to gain an advantage that they basically held onto for the next 25 ish years - They reap the financial benefit to this day as it coincided with the formation of the premier league. Their dominance was momentarily interrupted by arsenal but only really came under challenge when Chelsea and man city got bought out.

Liverpool overspent in the late 70s/early 80s and did similar, and even the likes of forest were paying a million pound for a player at a time it was unheard of so they could retain the European Cup. 

Some of the clubs that were able to do this before FFP, turned themselves into some of the biggest clubs in the world. I've always thought it a little unfair that they held this historic advantage and think a lot of people feel that it's nice to see other clubs challenging the "elite". Which is probably why no-one apart from their fans particularly holds much ill will against manchester city at the moment.

 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, cider-manc said:

I think everyone knows.

The truth is that it shows the failings in the current FFP rules. While they were set up with the best intentions to prevent the next Portsmouth (perhaps....) and to have a level playing field, they essentially keep the status quo going unless the likes of manchester city cook the books a little.

Manchester united (whilst always a huge club) were able to over spend in the late 80s early 90s to gain an advantage that they basically held onto for the next 25 ish years - They reap the financial benefit to this day as it coincided with the formation of the premier league. Their dominance was momentarily interrupted by arsenal but only really came under challenge when Chelsea and man city got bought out.

Liverpool overspent in the late 70s/early 80s and did similar, and even the likes of forest were paying a million pound for a player at a time it was unheard of so they could retain the European Cup. 

Some of the clubs that were able to do this before FFP, turned themselves into some of the biggest clubs in the world. I've always thought it a little unfair that they held this historic advantage and think a lot of people feel that it's nice to see other clubs challenging the "elite". Which is probably why no-one apart from their fans particularly holds much ill will against manchester city at the moment.

 

If you’re interested I reckon you’d find David Conn’s - The Beautiful Game, a great read.  The history of money influencing today’s big clubs goes back even further.

It is my favourite football book about the non-football side (inc Moneyball, which is obvs about baseball)

[exAtyeoMax]

Do you think the owners will try to offload the club?

will they be held to account?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Plus I'm sure Man City have interesting info on other clubs.

Maybe this is what the game needs, if there are lots of other clubs wirh offences ranging from middling to major let it all come out and be dealt with accordingly.

[Simon bristol]

50 grand fine should sort that out, and they would be made to promise they would never do it again

[Northern Red]

 

[Super]

23 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

No, League One. Damn, they'd be back in 2 Sheikhs.

I wonder how many goals Haaland would score!

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

 

Because the PL live in a world where taking 4 years (it's 14 years since the earliest allegations btw) to get the case together undoubtedly proves that they can govern themselves.

Ok. Sure. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[exAtyeoMax]

If Pep needs a new job…

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, cider-manc said:

I think everyone knows.

The truth is that it shows the failings in the current FFP rules. While they were set up with the best intentions to prevent the next Portsmouth (perhaps....) and to have a level playing field, they essentially keep the status quo going unless the likes of manchester city cook the books a little.

Manchester united (whilst always a huge club) were able to over spend in the late 80s early 90s to gain an advantage that they basically held onto for the next 25 ish years - They reap the financial benefit to this day as it coincided with the formation of the premier league. Their dominance was momentarily interrupted by arsenal but only really came under challenge when Chelsea and man city got bought out.

Liverpool overspent in the late 70s/early 80s and did similar, and even the likes of forest were paying a million pound for a player at a time it was unheard of so they could retain the European Cup. 

Some of the clubs that were able to do this before FFP, turned themselves into some of the biggest clubs in the world. I've always thought it a little unfair that they held this historic advantage and think a lot of people feel that it's nice to see other clubs challenging the "elite". Which is probably why no-one apart from their fans particularly holds much ill will against manchester city at the moment.

 

Oh I agree with what you say completely.

Corruption and taking advantage of situations in football has been going on for ages. Since the very start.

I just to try and see the bigger picture...as to what can be done to stop it. Tbh...I don't think there is a definite answer.

Football at the very top has so much influence these days. The people involved...big power hitters. It's pure business and Politics in some cases. You've only got to look at Juve and Milan in Italy to see that in a glaringly obvious way for many years.

It's very much a catch 22. 

We love our football...yet we support the sport knowing it's corrupt.

In the same way we know the Government system is corrupt, and in some cases large businesses corrupt.

Until systems change, and the public refuse to go along with it, it will never change.

It's never ending corruption. 

From a human perspective, I find it very odd that we accept these circumstances, often buy into them, knowing full well it's corrupt, discuss it when it's brought to light ( even though we know it goes on) condemning it...yet celebrate if our team, party or shares come in as winners. 

It's nuts when you think about it.

 

 

 

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, Dredd said:

Be pretty convenient if they get a points deduction in the season where they aren't running away with the league

Not if it’s means they don’t qualify for Europe. 

It’s crazy nowadays how the top clubs assume European income as part of their financial plans. It would be like us budgeting to get to the 5th round of the Cup every year. 

[Numero Uno]

47 minutes ago, mozo said:

Expulsion would probably precipitate the second push for a 'super league'

Exactly. Can't happen and won't happen. A suitably large fine will be "negotiated" with Man City, maybe a few points if Arsenal carry on their general form and it looks like the league will be a one horse race but not enough to stop them qualifying for the Champions League. Most likely a large fine and a large suspended points deduction (three seasons) but no actual deduction.

Just now, italian dave said:

Not if it’s means they don’t qualify for Europe. 

It’s crazy nowadays how the top clubs assume European income as part of their financial plans. It would be like us budgeting to get to the 5th round of the Cup every year. 

You would have to lop off a heavy number of points to stop them qualifying for Europe because like it or not they will win "most" of their remaining games.

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, Dredd said:

Be pretty convenient if they get a points deduction in the season where they aren't running away with the league

Easy way out.......so very much on the cards!!

[italian dave]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Exactly. Can't happen and won't happen. A suitably large fine will be "negotiated" with Man City, maybe a few points if Arsenal carry on their general form and it looks like the league will be a one horse race but not enough to stop them qualifying for the Champions League. Most likely a large fine and a large suspended points deduction (three seasons) but no actual deduction.

You would have to lop off a heavy number of points to stop them qualifying for Europe because like it or not they will win "most" of their remaining games.

The 15 points Juventus have had deducted for false accounting might just about do it? 

[Numero Uno]

Just now, italian dave said:

The 15 points Juventus have had deducted for false accounting might just about do it? 

I think you would have to take nearer twenty off them to stop them sneaking in. In some ways you might have stumbled on an answer. Consistent with other decisions made in Europe but they still retain a chance of qualifying for Europe. Still don't think the FA or EPL would have the balls to do it though.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I think you would have to take nearer twenty off them to stop them sneaking in. In some ways you might have stumbled on an answer. Consistent with other decisions made in Europe but they still retain a chance of qualifying for Europe. Still don't think the FA or EPL would have the balls to do it though.

UEFA might have their own set of sanctions!

[Numero Uno]

15 minutes ago, spudski said:

Oh I agree with what you say completely.

Corruption and taking advantage of situations in football has been going on for ages. Since the very start.

I just to try and see the bigger picture...as to what can be done to stop it. Tbh...I don't think there is a definite answer.

Football at the very top has so much influence these days. The people involved...big power hitters. It's pure business and Politics in some cases. You've only got to look at Juve and Milan in Italy to see that in a glaringly obvious way for many years.

It's very much a catch 22. 

We love our football...yet we support the sport knowing it's corrupt.

In the same way we know the Government system is corrupt, and in some cases large businesses corrupt.

Until systems change, and the public refuse to go along with it, it will never change.

It's never ending corruption. 

From a human perspective, I find it very odd that we accept these circumstances, often buy into them, knowing full well it's corrupt, discuss it when it's brought to light ( even though we know it goes on) condemning it...yet celebrate if our team, party or shares come in as winners. 

It's nuts when you think about it.

 

 

 

It will upset some on here but it would not surprise me one iota if an investigation found a small number of corrupt referees in this country. Whatever your political persuasion, it has nothing to do with that, it is clear the current incumbents that "Govern" this country are full of corrupt ministers and politicians. Nailed on. Probably as many are bent as aren't.

[Bristol Rob]

My expectation is that this will drag on for a few more years, some members of the legal profession will make a mint and Man City will get a fine the owner can easily afford, the 'Premier League brand' will be protected and an already cash rich organisation will have yet more cash to not filter down to grassroots.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

UEFA might have their own set of sanctions!

True, although they would apply whatever the punishment anyway. The EPL know that if they go too far the Owners of Man City will be straight on the phone to the larger Spanish and Italian clubs who are absolutely desperate for a European Super League and some Yank in West London will suddenly ditch his idea for North v South and won't be far behind....................

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

It will upset some on here but it would not surprise me one iota if an investigation found a small number of corrupt referees in this country. Whatever your political persuasion, it has nothing to do with that, it is clear the current incumbents that "Govern" this country are full of corrupt ministers and politicians. Nailed on. Probably as many are bent as aren't.

I totally agree. Corruption is everywhere. Some just hide it better than others. 

[Cornacix the Druid]

57 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

No, League One. Damn, they'd be back in 2 Sheikhs.

How about something similar to how Rangers were dealt with. Out of the Football league altogether? 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Cornacix the Druid
Spelling

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

True, although they would apply whatever the punishment anyway. The EPL know that if they go too far the Owners of Man City will be straight on the phone to the larger Spanish and Italian clubs who are absolutely desperate for a European Super League and some Yank in West London will suddenly ditch his idea for North v South and won't be far behind....................

Cc @Bristol Rob

Serie A had the courage to punish their own biggest club domestically with relegation which they took some time to recover from and have docked them 15 pts so I'd say little excuse for the PL not to punish Man City severely if proven.

[Numero Uno]

Just now, Cornacix the Druid said:

How about how something similar to how Rangers were dealt with. Out of the Football league altogether? 

It teaches Man City a lesson but then starts a Super League in Europe. For the EPL that's like being a turkey and voting for Christmas.