Max O'Leary

[extonsred]

Not received much praise over the past 12 games but how my confidence in him has changed. He is very good positionally..and just watching the longer highlights from yesterday he was drawn to the near post but when the ball was switched to the far side he sped across the goal to block a shot at the other. Minutes later he came well out of goal to reach a high ball cleanly amongst a melee of players. Quick and decisive...becoming a really goalie ... and really beginning to appreciate his strengths and of late, few weaknesses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vidal]

2 minutes ago, extonsred said:

Not received much praise over the past 12 games but how my confidence in him has changed. He is very good positionally..and just watching the longer highlights from yesterday he was drawn to the near post but when the ball was switched to the far side he sped across the goal to block a shot at the other. Minutes later he came well out of goal to reach a high ball cleanly amongst a melee of players. Quick and decisive...becoming a really goalie ... and really beginning to appreciate his strengths and of late, few weaknesses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good positionally but IF we are side wanting play off football next season then we need to upgrade in this area. 

[And Its Smith]

We all know that the next mistake he makes there will be calls for a keeper upgrade.  So I think it’s always worth pointing out those games where Max wins us points.  Probably our second best player on Friday night.   All keepers at this level will have weaknesses and make errors. If they didn’t they wouldn’t be playing at this level.  Max has had a good start to the season in my opinion.  

[Bobbie]

He was excellent. Let’s keep supporting our academy lads as they grow rather than jumping on every mistake. Well done Max 

[eardun]

38 minutes ago, Bobbie said:

He was excellent. Let’s keep supporting our academy lads as they grow rather than jumping on every mistake. Well done Max 

Agree. That goes for all players in fact. Players have good games and some bad games, especially younger players. After one bad game, it doesn’t mean they are not ‘up to championship standard’ or ‘we should get rid’. Some fans were even questioning Knight’s value after/during the home matches. And who can forget one of Semenyo’s early matches when he had a shocker. Look at him now. They need our support to build their confidence and help us get better. I’d much rather let Pearson judge whether a player is up to championship standard or not. 

[Silvio Dante]

Max isn’t a “younger player” any more - he’s at an age where he should be established if he’s going to be. 
 

And just as one poor game shouldn’t lead to a knee jerk reaction, a good game should also not lead to a knee jerk positive  reaction. And having now seen Max for several years, and a couple of “runs” my opinion of him remains that he is a very good shot stopper but below par on the other aspects - I think his distribution is poor and his decision making the same. As for a good start to the season, I think he was well off against Preston, not great against Brum, ok (with limited to do) against Oxford and good against Hull. (This is largely down to the factors above). Having not seen Millwall I think one good and one ok game in 4 isn’t really a strong start to the season.

Academy or not, I remain of the mind we need an upgrade. I hope he can change that opinion, but the flaws in his game have been there ever since he was a young player and I don’t see them changing soon. The comparison of a 19 year old Semenyo developing against a soon to be 27 year old O’Leary is nonsense, even allowing for keepers developing later - the flaws in his game are who he is at this stage.

[Red-Robbo]

It's his distribution that is his weakness. He hasn't got the strongest kick and over distance they are often wayward. I know this is an area he's been working on, but more to be done there.

He's a good shot stopper though and his anticipation is pretty good. Rooted to his line he is not.

[wayne allisons tongues]

His kicking Friday wasn’t  great kept floating balls out wide which were easy to intercept. Also the attempted punch/catch in the first half was shocking, no power or distance on it. Not quite sure what he was attempting there, but I think he ok for champ level but would need to upgrade if we went up.

[cityexile]

However good or not he is (and personally I think he is fine) it is still a worry that we seem to have little real cover. An injury, suspension, or even a run of poor form and we seem exposed. I have to assume from training there is enough belief in the cover if needed, but does seem an obvious area of risk.

[mozo]

I thought Friday was his best performance of the season after an iffy start.

[eardun]

25 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Max isn’t a “younger player” any more - he’s at an age where he should be established if he’s going to be. 
 

And just as one poor game shouldn’t lead to a knee jerk reaction, a good game should also not lead to a knee jerk positive  reaction. And having now seen Max for several years, and a couple of “runs” my opinion of him remains that he is a very good shot stopper but below par on the other aspects - I think his distribution is poor and his decision making the same. As for a good start to the season, I think he was well off against Preston, not great against Brum, ok (with limited to do) against Oxford and good against Hull. (This is largely down to the factors above). Having not seen Millwall I think one good and one ok game in 4 isn’t really a strong start to the season.

Academy or not, I remain of the mind we need an upgrade. I hope he can change that opinion, but the flaws in his game have been there ever since he was a young player and I don’t see them changing soon. The comparison of a 19 year old Semenyo developing against a soon to be 27 year old O’Leary is nonsense, even allowing for keepers developing later - the flaws in his game are who he is at this stage.

Agree - should look at it in the round, good and bad; and that’s what Pearson does. No knee jerk reactions. 
P.S. I wasn’t saying O’Leary was a younger player; my examples were Knight and Semenyo. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by eardun

[steveybadger]

16 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

It's his distribution that is his weakness. He hasn't got the strongest kick and over distance they are often wayward. I know this is an area he's been working on, but more to be done there.

He's a good shot stopper though and his anticipation is pretty good. Rooted to his line he is not.

Agree he normally isn’t rooted to his line but thought he was for the header which hit the post on Friday (which admittedly he saved with his legs). But overall I think he’s a competent keeper at this level and has improved.

[Red Skin]

38 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Max isn’t a “younger player” any more - he’s at an age where he should be established if he’s going to be. 

That really doesn't make any sense.  

He will only become established by getting experience and playing week in week out, which is exactly what he is getting.  He needs experience at this level, so loaning out to a lower league club won't give him the experience he needs.  Experience will not all be good, but he will need adversity to grow and mature.  

Max is good enough. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Red Skin

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Max isn’t a “younger player” any more - he’s at an age where he should be established if he’s going to be. 
 

And just as one poor game shouldn’t lead to a knee jerk reaction, a good game should also not lead to a knee jerk positive  reaction. And having now seen Max for several years, and a couple of “runs” my opinion of him remains that he is a very good shot stopper but below par on the other aspects - I think his distribution is poor and his decision making the same. As for a good start to the season, I think he was well off against Preston, not great against Brum, ok (with limited to do) against Oxford and good against Hull. (This is largely down to the factors above). Having not seen Millwall I think one good and one ok game in 4 isn’t really a strong start to the season.

Academy or not, I remain of the mind we need an upgrade. I hope he can change that opinion, but the flaws in his game have been there ever since he was a young player and I don’t see them changing soon. The comparison of a 19 year old Semenyo developing against a soon to be 27 year old O’Leary is nonsense, even allowing for keepers developing later - the flaws in his game are who he is at this stage.

His distribution needs work. If we just ignore the tactics of kicking to the touchline it is the general play distribution where he can improve. Still better than Bentley though!!

Just like outfield players work on pressing triggers, I think Max needs to concentrate on identifying opposition pressing triggers. He does play us into trouble like the 3rd minute v Brum when he tried to chip a pass to Pring. Like he did playing to Vyner the other night who was being pressed.

Other than that I think he is fine. When I say fine I don’t really know if he can help us move towards the playoffs or not. But paying out for a better keeper isn’t a priority imho, not at the likely cost anyway.

We don’t know how good Stefan or Harv are yet. That’s something to address either by playing them at some point or bringing someone in. 

[ateomike2]

I sometimes think about about dean gerkin and how he was thrown in at the deep end when basso walked still max still gives us heart attacks at times but still think stick with him he's he's doing ok 

 

[Port Said Red]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

His distribution needs work. If we just ignore the tactics of kicking to the touchline it is the general play distribution where he can improve. Still better than Bentley though!!

Just like outfield players work on pressing triggers, I think Max needs to concentrate on identifying opposition pressing triggers. He does play us into trouble like the 3rd minute v Brum when he tried to chip a pass to Pring. Like he did playing to Vyner the other night who was being pressed.

Other than that I think he is fine. When I say fine I don’t really know if he can help us move towards the playoffs or not. But paying out for a better keeper isn’t a priority imho, not at the likely cost anyway.

We don’t know how good Stefan or Harv are yet. That’s something to address either by playing them at some point or bringing someone in. 

The two best ones are behind them, so I am led to believe. Giving goalkeepers a chance at a young age.seems less acceptable than outfield players though,  so we may have to wait a while to see them.

[GrahamC]

The save from Twine’s free kick was his best for me. Thought Connolly messed up the one on one (though well done to Max for making himself tall) & the one from close range sort of hit him.

Good game & whilst I am still concerned by the lack of a senior alternative, that’s not his fault so let’s hope he turns in plenty more performances like Friday.

[formerly known as ivan]

4 hours ago, Bobbie said:

He was excellent. Let’s keep supporting our academy lads as they grow rather than jumping on every mistake. Well done Max 

Wrong! Academy or not they should all receive the same treatment. Coming through the academy does not excuse them from criticism. 

[Numero Uno]

There was a stat last season that showed Max’s xG or whatever they called it be 0. Another way of saying that in general he saves what he should, doesn’t concede much that he should save but doesn’t make many top drawer saves either. Basically competent at the level. He played well Friday and in terms of moving his game on probably needs to have a few more games where he earns us points.

[WoodsDTES]

Probably best to put things into perspective in the fact that yes he’s not young but he is still inexperienced in that he’s made 62 appearances for us at championship level and 30 for Shrewsbury at league one level. Compare that to Cam Pring who is now classed as a real quality championship level player who has made 68 championship appearances for us, 9 league one appearances for Portsmouth and then 36 league two appearances for Newport, Cheltenham and Walsall so maybe a little more patience is required with Max considering his growth with us.

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, WoodsDTES said:

Probably best to put things into perspective in the fact that yes he’s not young but he is still inexperienced in that he’s made 62 appearances for us at championship level and 30 for Shrewsbury at league one level. Compare that to Cam Pring who is now classed as a real quality championship level player who has made 68 championship appearances for us, 9 league one appearances for Portsmouth and then 36 league two appearances for Newport, Cheltenham and Walsall so maybe a little more patience is required with Max considering his growth with us.

Max was what we needed him to be when he replaced Bentley last season who had a very poor run of form. The question is now whether he will push on that bit further and be what a top half team needs in goal at our level.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

There was a stat last season that showed Max’s xG or whatever they called it be 0. Another way of saying that in general he saves what he should, doesn’t concede much that he should save but doesn’t make many top drawer saves either. Basically competent at the level. He played well Friday and in terms of moving his game on probably needs to have a few more games where he earns us points.

There is a stat called “prevented goals” (PG) which is basically xGC (xG conceded) minus GC (goals conceded).

Last season (league only):

xGC 34.9

GC 35

PG = -0.1 (pretty much as you state)

This season (4 game sample):

xGC 6.22

GC 4

PG = +2.22

 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

There is a stat called “prevented goals” (PG) which is basically xGC (xG conceded) minus GC (goals conceded).

Last season (league only):

xGC 34.9

GC 35

PG = -0.1 (pretty much as you state)

This season (4 game sample):

xGC 6.22

GC 4

PG = +2.22

 

Cheers, couldn’t remember what it was. I should imagine the saves Max made on Friday are a large part of his positive PG so far.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Cheers, couldn’t remember what it was. I should imagine the saves Max made on Friday are a large part of his positive PG so far.

Actually he’s conceded less than his xG every game so far.

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

There is a stat called “prevented goals” (PG) which is basically xGC (xG conceded) minus GC (goals conceded).

Last season (league only):

xGC 34.9

GC 35

PG = -0.1 (pretty much as you state)

This season (4 game sample):

xGC 6.22

GC 4

PG = +2.22

 

The stats piece is interesting, but it kind of plays to what we’re all seeing - Max is a decent shot stopping keeper. 
 

A stat that really showed the other side of the coin to me was the PNE game. Preston won 39 aerial duels, c25% more than any other team in the league. The key reason for that was the distribution - Max’s floaty kicks are begging to be attacked by opposition players. You played in defence, I played in defence - the balls that come out are a gift to any centre half, and particularly against Preston, their tactic of pressing us and making Max distribute was the key reason we struggled second half. 
 

Potentially with Kal in the side it’ll get better as he won’t have to distribute longer as much, but as you said earlier, there is a tendency to play players into trouble. I think that’s because, in part, Max knows kicking is a weakness (as the stats prove) so tries to avoid having to do so.

I think we (and the stats) pretty much see the same strengths and weaknesses - I probably see the distribution as a far bigger issue than yourself though and it’s enough for me to want an upgrade because of the pressure it subsequently brings on us.

[Numero Uno]

7 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

The stats piece is interesting, but it kind of plays to what we’re all seeing - Max is a decent shot stopping keeper. 
 

A stat that really showed the other side of the coin to me was the PNE game. Preston won 39 aerial duels, c25% more than any other team in the league. The key reason for that was the distribution - Max’s floaty kicks are begging to be attacked by opposition players. You played in defence, I played in defence - the balls that come out are a gift to any centre half, and particularly against Preston, their tactic of pressing us and making Max distribute was the key reason we struggled second half. 
 

Potentially with Kal in the side it’ll get better as he won’t have to distribute longer as much, but as you said earlier, there is a tendency to play players into trouble. I think that’s because, in part, Max knows kicking is a weakness (as the stats prove) so tries to avoid having to do so.

I think we (and the stats) pretty much see the same strengths and weaknesses - I probably see the distribution as a far bigger issue than yourself though and it’s enough for me to want an upgrade because of the pressure it subsequently brings on us.

Whether we get a significant upgrade is down to money and spending priorities but I would like to see genuine competition in that department if nothing else. I’m not sure we have that and barring injury Max is nailed on to start……..which I don’t particularly like unless your nailed on starter is top quality at the level.

[95red]

9 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

We all know that the next mistake he makes there will be calls for a keeper upgrade.  So I think it’s always worth pointing out those games where Max wins us points.  Probably our second best player on Friday night.   All keepers at this level will have weaknesses and make errors. If they didn’t they wouldn’t be playing at this level.  Max has had a good start to the season in my opinion.  

Apart from the cross when he flapped and didn't  have a clue  where the ball was he ain't the best that for sure .

[And Its Smith]

3 minutes ago, 95red said:

Apart from the cross when he flapped and didn't  have a clue  where the ball was he ain't the best that for sure .

No as the best play in the premier league and we can’t afford them. 

[95red]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

No as the best play in the premier league and we can’t afford them. 

He's league  one at best.

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, 95red said:

He's league  one at best.

You said the same about Vyner. Changed your mind yet ?