England Goalscoring List

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

Not on the list, but Brian Clough had a monster goals to games record. 

At Boro, 204 goals in 222 games and Sunderland 267 goals in 296 games. Unfortunately he never scored in his 2 England games.

As for the top goal scorer list, how many times did Lofthouse, Greaves and Lofhouse play San Marino? 

 

That makes it read like Clough scored 471 goals…he didn’t!

That was his total.

I think the other thing is that all bar one came in the second flight.

[Midred]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Not on the list, but Brian Clough had a monster goals to games record. 

At Boro, 204 goals in 222 games and Sunderland 267 goals in 296 games. Unfortunately he never scored in his 2 England games.

As for the top goal scorer list, how many times did Lofthouse, Greaves and Lofhouse play San Marino? 

 

Didn't realise that the Lofthouse twins both played for England 

[Super]

3 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Not on the list, but Brian Clough had a monster goals to games record. 

At Boro, 204 goals in 222 games and Sunderland 267 goals in 296 games. Unfortunately he never scored in his 2 England games.

As for the top goal scorer list, how many times did Lofthouse, Greaves and Lofhouse play San Marino? 

 

Also not on the list Sir Geoff Hurst who scored our most important goals.

[Oh Louie louie]

Got to feel for lampard, he should be on 30, that one in South Africa against Germany was about a foot over the line

[Oh Louie louie]

I see woodwoods on the list, he scored a few, more often than not bet it was the equaliser..

[Port Said Red]

I love looking at old videos of Jimmy Greaves, he makes it look so easy on some appalling pitches. How bad Chelsea must have been for him to have scored 54 goals in two seasons and they didn't finish above 14th doesn't bear thinking about. He scored 4 goals on his debut alone.

I posted this on here before, maybe when he passed away, but it bears repeating. The whole of his Wikipedia page is a great read, but this section about his third season is remarkable.

"In the 1960–61 season, Greaves scored hat-tricks against Wolves, Blackburn Rovers and Manchester City; he scored four goals against Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest; and hit five goals in a 7–1 win over West Bromwich Albion. His hat-trick against Manchester City on 19 November included his 100th league goal, making him the youngest player to pass the 100-goal mark, at the age of 20 years and 290 days".

Absolute machine, much like Haaland now except he was in a very poor side. He scored all sorts of goals too.

https://youtu.be/vH7Zi3zUEJU

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Port Said Red

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, handsofclay said:

Steve Bloomer who doesn't quite make the list with 28 goals from 23 matches.

 

Indeed. They played a lot fewer internationals back then and you didn't get England meeting the likes of Albania, North Macedonia, Estonia and Malta in Bloomer's day. 

[handsofclay]

People might've scoffed earlier on regarding my suggestion of Steve Bloomer 28 goals in 23 appearances, probably thinking that comes from an era when it was easier to score. It wasn't. If anything it was harder. It was easier for defending sides to get offsides as it was before the rule change that reduced it from three to two defending players between the recipient of the ball and the goal. 

Also Derby County are the only club in the country whose record all-time goalscorer amassed his tally before WW1. If it was so easy to score back then lots of other clubs would also have set their goal-scoring records in the Edwardian era. 

To illustrate this, Bristol City played ten games, including replays, in the 1909 FA Cup campaign and scored 12 goals in those ten games. Hardly prolific goal-scoring in a very successful campaign. Yet Steve Bloomer was scoring at a greater rate than that for England every match in that era.

[Oh Louie louie]

There was a quiz question few weeks ago which ex Barnet Milan and spurs player won over seventy international caps. Thought it had to be Jimmy, was egdar davids

[Maltshoveller]

1 hour ago, TBW said:

Like to see this list without penalties. 

Penalties count as goals dont they?

[GrahamC]

11 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I love looking at old videos of Jimmy Greaves, he makes it look so easy on some appalling pitches. How bad Chelsea must have been for him to have scored 54 goals in two seasons and they didn't finish above 14th doesn't bear thinking about. He scored 4 goals on his debut alone.

I posted this on here before, maybe when he passed away, but it bears repeating. The whole of his Wikipedia page is a great read, but this section about his third season is remarkable.

"In the 1960–61 season, Greaves scored hat-tricks against Wolves, Blackburn Rovers and Manchester City; he scored four goals against Newcastle United and Nottingham Forest; and hit five goals in a 7–1 win over West Bromwich Albion. His hat-trick against Manchester City on 19 November included his 100th league goal, making him the youngest player to pass the 100-goal mark, at the age of 20 years and 290 days".

Absolute machine, much like Haaland now except he was in a very poor side. He scored all sorts of goals too.

https://youtu.be/vH7Zi3zUEJU

 

Spot on.

Greaves joined AC Milan in 1961, at the height of Italian football being at its most ultra defensive.

He hated it there, didn’t get on with his coach & couldn’t wait to come home.

In his 10 league games for Milan he still scored 9, imagine how many he would have scored if he was in a good place & appreciated by his coach.

He is right up there with the most prolific scorers of all time, like Gerd Muller (68 goals in 62 games for West Germany) & Ferenc Puskas (84 in 85 for Hungary).

[tin]

I look at what were historically the strongest eras which, IMO, were the ‘80s to the ‘00s. The feats of Lineker and Shearer stand out. Shearer, especially before doing his ACL, was awesome. 

Way more internationals are played nowadays, way more penalties get given now than ever before, plus look at the likes of Italy, Brazil and Germany, all of whom were at their peak during those times and are a shadow of their best now.

It’s no coincidence IMO that Ronaldo (120) and Messi (99) are the highest international scorers ever during the present era. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by tin

[steviestevieneville]

2 hours ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Jimmy greaves is pretty impressive. 44 in 57.

Does my head in a bit that pre prem days get over looked a bit. Greaves & Nat lofthouse records are brilliant . Full credit to Kane , less than one in two is excellent & he’s a top striker . However we play a lot more internationals these days which doesn’t really give a fair reflection on the bygone eras 

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, tin said:

I look at what were historically the strongest eras which, IMO, were the ‘80s to the ‘00s. The feats of Lineker and Shearer stand out. Shearer, especially before doing his ACL, was awesome. 

Way more penalties get given now than ever before, plus look at the likes of Italy, Brazil and Germany, all of whom were at their peak during those times and are a shadow of their best now. 

 

Yes, to answer the question in the OP, I'd probably time travel a young Shearer and select him for the current England.

Lots of very good contenders for England's best ever have been mentioned, but I think AS would be more at home with the modern game than some of them. 

[shelts]

Well played Harry a fantastic achievement . My old man god bless him always said Jimmy Greaves was the best goal scorer he’d ever seen . That’ll do for me !!

[Super]

Edit

Edited March 24, 2023 by Super

[Malago]

2 hours ago, harrys said:

Jimmy Greave’s  record was something else, by far the most impressive figures

Nat Lofthouse with 30 in 33 is more impressive on a goals per game basis.

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, Maltshoveller said:

Also Defenders can

(a) No longer defend properly

(B) Are not allowed to defend as football is becoming a none contact sport

I’m going to say something potentially divisive but I think the standard of defending is higher now generally. Defenders are more composed and can play even at “lower” international levels. The pace of the game is a lot quicker too so have to factor that in.

As for not allowed to defend, I think that’s a common trope that’s rubbish. What you don’t see so much of us CBs (in particular) putting in big tackles like they may have done (I’m think the likes of Terry, Campbell, Adams) and that’s because their positioning is generally much better.

Maldini I believe once said, if I have to make a tackle, I’ve already made a mistake.

[Tinmans Love Child]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That makes it read like Clough scored 471 goals…he didn’t!

That was his total.

I think the other thing is that all bar one came in the second flight.

Whatever devision they were scored in, an unbelievable record, surprised he didn't get a move to top flight with those stats

[IAmNick]

46 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I’m going to say something potentially divisive but I think the standard of defending is higher now generally. Defenders are more composed and can play even at “lower” international levels. The pace of the game is a lot quicker too so have to factor that in.

As for not allowed to defend, I think that’s a common trope that’s rubbish. What you don’t see so much of us CBs (in particular) putting in big tackles like they may have done (I’m think the likes of Terry, Campbell, Adams) and that’s because their positioning is generally much better.

Maldini I believe once said, if I have to make a tackle, I’ve already made a mistake.

Totally agree. Go back and watch a top flight game from the 60s on youtube and it's completely different - to the point a lot of it is barely comparable in my opinion. We'd be tearing our hair out these days at the control, speed, and passing of even the top clubs. It's almost impossible to compare players due to the fitness, conditions, and so on.

It'd be fascinating how some would get on now though. I suspect some wouldn't be near the top clubs as they just couldn't match the fitness requirements and would be highly skilled players in the other leagues. Some would still be there regardless of course and be great players even today.

I'd also question why penalties seem to be a sticking point - how about this... I believe that in the late 50s / early 60s the average goals per game was over 3.5, whereas from the 70s onwards it's been around 2.5. That's around 40% more goals in each game. Should we take that into consideration?

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by IAmNick

[TV Tom]

4 hours ago, TBW said:

Nat Lofthouse's is better. 

It is

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, Malago said:

Nat Lofthouse with 30 in 33 is more impressive on a goals per game basis.

Can’t argue with that

[Lrrr]

Rooney in his prime, it’s just a shame his prime came at a younger age and wasn’t for a prolonged period.

Owen could have been devastating if not for injuries and in a team providing better chances though 

[The Bard]

5 hours ago, WECANDO said:

I think Charlton only scored 6 pens in his total but Kane has18.

The other consideration is that Charlton was a midfielder.  Comparable to Lampard rather than Owen  or Shearer.  That's what makes him our greatest ever player. Ramsey used him to keep Beckanbauer quiet in the 66 final.  

[Oh Louie louie]

On the subject of defender's Bobby Moore could have played in slippers and a blindfold, and still would have been better than harry m,

[Maltshoveller]

2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

I’m going to say something potentially divisive but I think the standard of defending is higher now generally. Defenders are more composed and can play even at “lower” international levels. The pace of the game is a lot quicker too so have to factor that in.

As for not allowed to defend, I think that’s a common trope that’s rubbish. What you don’t see so much of us CBs (in particular) putting in big tackles like they may have done (I’m think the likes of Terry, Campbell, Adams) and that’s because their positioning is generally much better.

Maldini I believe once said, if I have to make a tackle, I’ve already made a mistake.

Cant agree with all of what you have said

but Good post

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Whatever devision they were scored in, an unbelievable record, surprised he didn't get a move to top flight with those stats

Yes, was pointing towards why he hardly got any England caps.  A fine record indeed.

[Red Shadow]

5 hours ago, REDOXO said:

Including the goal that got England to the 58 World Cup in injury time in Dublin. 

Pretty sure two City players played in that game. The other one was Dermot Curtis who was in the Irish team.

[DaveInSA]

I’m especially glad that Rooney is off the top.

I would take Greavesie over all of the others I think.

[spudski]

I saw this post today, and the comments below it. 

I know you can only score against what's put in front of you... however, it puts some stats into perspective.