Fammyfan Posted November 20, 2023 Report Share Posted November 20, 2023 The 10 point deduction I agree with but it’s unfortunate on the timing, making it very achievable for Everton to survive. Itll be interesting to see what happens with the other clubs and whether this results in Administration and a further points deduction. On this, I must say that I understand the stance of Burnley and Leicester but not Leeds, as they still would have been relegated irrespective of whether the points deduction was applied or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Fammyfan said: The 10 point deduction I agree with but it’s unfortunate on the timing, making it very achievable for Everton to survive. Itll be interesting to see what happens with the other clubs and whether this results in Administration and a further points deduction. On this, I must say that I understand the stance of Burnley and Leicester but not Leeds, as they still would have been relegated irrespective of whether the points deduction was applied or not. Leeds have a case for a few million in prize money and that's probably it. IMO. Edited November 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 20, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2023 (edited) Plus in theTimes it confirms that a club can be punished again if they fail in successive seasons. This is the first year of the new fast-track system, maybe why Wolves were so concerned? Clubs who posted a loss in the prior 2 years must submit their numbers at the end of December not March. Edited November 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 This is a very interesting listen , some of you may have heard it but it's new to me. Not sure it answers to many big questions , but it does sort of explain some positions of Everton, Chelsea and Man C. https://thedailybriefing.io/p/could-manchester-city-and-chelsea#details Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan11 Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) On 19/11/2023 at 12:53, Eddie Hitler said: I quite like Everton but am all for there being big penalties for breaching FFP, either deliberately or by being reckless. <cough>Ipswich</cough> On what basis do you believe we have breached FFP? Edited November 21, 2023 by Dan11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Geoff Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 5 hours ago, 1960maaan said: This is a very interesting listen , some of you may have heard it but it's new to me. Not sure it answers to many big questions , but it does sort of explain some positions of Everton, Chelsea and Man C. https://thedailybriefing.io/p/could-manchester-city-and-chelsea#details Or this (Price of Football pod) https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/everton-deducted-ten-points-for-breaching-premier-league/id1482886394?i=1000635370935 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 Dunno whether this makes it more or less likely..each case is judged on merits after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 3 hours ago, Dan11 said: On what basis do you believe we have breached FFP? Oi, stop eavesdropping on our forum! I'm not claiming that you have but with Ashton's penchant for shovelling vast amounts of cash into a furnace I think it likely that you will do so in the future, unless your Board comes to its senses in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/10-point-deduction.118613/ The paranoia, arrogance and tin hat wearing is genuinely something. https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/leeds-leicester-and-the-other-small-clubs.118614/ One observation though. If Everton are up before the beak again this season for period ending 2023 or even 2024 they must be punished correctly but at the same time, there must be some principle of reset of the prior 2 years to avoid a risk of double jeopardy. Edited November 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted November 21, 2023 Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/10-point-deduction.118613/ The paranoia, arrogance and tin hat wearing is genuinely something. https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/leeds-leicester-and-the-other-small-clubs.118614/ One observation though. If Everton are up before the beak again this season for period ending 2023 or even 2024 they must be punished correctly but at the same time, there must be some principle of reset of the prior 2 years to avoid a risk of double jeopardy. If they were forced to pay compensation of let's say 200 million. Would that count towards ffp too? Or would it be excempt from ffp calculations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 21, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: If they were forced to pay compensation of let's say 200 million. Would that count towards ffp too? Or would it be excempt from ffp calculations? At yes that was the other bit I got got about in my last post. In general, FFP fines are exempt from the calculations. Namely the QPR one which was £40m in 2018 and various UEFA ones. I assume this would he too but this is the first case of its kind in the PL so who knows for certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 Everton feel they are in a strong position to reject January. https://www.teamtalk.com/news/exclusive-everton-well-placed-to-keep-key-stars-despite-man-utd-plotting-huge-double-swoop Can only assume their FFP position is fine to 2023 and the current season or they should be punished again and indeed again if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 (edited) I've never known a reaction like it really. The entitlement, special pleading, whinging. Below the line comment, forums, social media, journalists, MPs, Mayor etc. They only really turned on Moshiri etc as it ran aground on the pitch, nothing to do with wider mismanagement. Edited November 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 22, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 (edited) From 2021, the cheek of Everton really. They looked to include £41.4m in Player Impairment across the 2 years as a Covid cost, looked to include £11.6m in Provision for Onerous contracts as a Covid add-back. Dual impact of exempting costs now, and cutting it in the future. Long forgotten now hut they gained £30m from a Related Party in Usmanov for a Naming Rights option got a stadium that wasn't even built yet. Edited November 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said: I've never known a reaction like it really. The entitlement, special pleading, whinging. Below the line comment, forums, social media, journalists, MPs, Mayor etc. They only really turned on Moshiri etc as it ran aground on the pitch, nothing to do with wider mismanagement. I'm flabbergasted by the reaction. With this reaction and Klopp recently demanding a replay it really is embarrassing for that region. Maguire said during the hearing that Everton eventually accepted they had breached FFP but argued it was only by 7 million I think he said? Personally I think the losses that were allowed were so high that I'd have called for the same punishment if they breached it by 1 pound. Clubs such as our own and Wolves etc had to make cuts and sell players go avoid being punished. It's what Everton should have done but they admitted that they gambled. They lost that gamble so the punishment is fully deserved. Barnsley get kicked out of the FA Cup for an admin error and that's fine but Everton being docked points for essentially willingly cheating is not fine apparently. Edited November 22, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 This made me smile, and think about Sainsburys for some reason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfc01 Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 31 minutes ago, 1960maaan said: This made me smile, and think about Sainsburys for some reason Bit small time for such a so called big club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 Just as we thought he outcry couldn't get anymore pathetic... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markthehorn Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 Seems to me most are upset a big name has been punished whereas if it was a Luton or Bournemouth no one would be bothered. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanterne Rouge Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 38 minutes ago, Markthehorn said: Seems to me most are upset a big name has been punished whereas if it was a Luton or Bournemouth no one would be bothered. This 100%. `They can`t do this to us, we`re too big and famous`. Garnished with a lot of terror of what the PL will find out and do to other clubs. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 34 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said: This 100%. `They can`t do this to us, we`re too big and famous`. Garnished with a lot of terror of what the PL will find out and do to other clubs. I think that's what this come down too. With a big historic club like Everton being punished it sends a message that any club can be punished. They are also aware that Evertons punishment will be referenced by a future commission. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) Again I mentioned before, but Aston Villa, and FFP. Nauseating given 2019. https://www.astonvillanews.co.uk/2023/11/23/ty-bracey-thrilled-aston-villa-not-involved-in-premier-league-naughtiness-amid-everton-development/ Stadium sale and leaseback, plus accident of Geography for HS2... Sanctimonious arguably, holier than thou maybe. I really do query the accounting treatment of their stadium deal. Edited November 23, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) Why for example, is a transaction in May 2019 treated as Other Loans Receivable 3 years from the event. "Repayable on demand"..should that not be a Current Asset? Possibly. Repayable on Demand is generally treated as a Current Asset which is 12 months or less. Maybe arguable though. Edited November 23, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 23, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) https://www.footballinsider247.com/sources-everton-file-official-complaint-as-board-rages-at-new-twist/ Edited November 23, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAstonVillafan Posted November 24, 2023 Report Share Posted November 24, 2023 10 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Again I mentioned before, but Aston Villa, and FFP. Nauseating given 2019. https://www.astonvillanews.co.uk/2023/11/23/ty-bracey-thrilled-aston-villa-not-involved-in-premier-league-naughtiness-amid-everton-development/ Stadium sale and leaseback, plus accident of Geography for HS2... Sanctimonious arguably, holier than thou maybe. I really do query the accounting treatment of their stadium deal. Let it go. Sheffield Wednesday, Derby and Reading are finished. Can't you be happy with that ? I, like Ty Bracey am very happy that WE DID NOT BREAK ANY RULES. It is nice that we are not involved in any nasty stuff and we are seeing the benefit of that right now. You can query this, but the EPL and EFL were satisfied with the sale and leaseback. (Which even I think is dodgy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted November 24, 2023 Report Share Posted November 24, 2023 12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: https://www.footballinsider247.com/sources-everton-file-official-complaint-as-board-rages-at-new-twist/ I had another thought. If say Everton are relegated and the 10 points proves to be the deciding factor. With players having relegation wage reductions written into their contracts, could Evertons own players sue them for loss of earnings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, AnAstonVillafan said: Let it go. Sheffield Wednesday, Derby and Reading are finished. Can't you be happy with that ? I, like Ty Bracey am very happy that WE DID NOT BREAK ANY RULES. It is nice that we are not involved in any nasty stuff and we are seeing the benefit of that right now. You can query this, but the EPL and EFL were satisfied with the sale and leaseback. (Which even I think is dodgy). Past v present but I do think it's a bit rich of Ty Bracey, here and now overall fine but nothing wrong with a good Regulator delving back into historic issues really. I also wonder about Nottingham Forest, Stoke and maybe even Fulham in various ways. An interesting q is, when the Grealish money drops off how to Aston Villa tick along. Some regular player sales and an improving League position can help but..there habe been additions, managerial changes (Gerrard to Emery) and presumably a rising wage bill. Edited November 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said: I had another thought. If say Everton are relegated and the 10 points proves to be the deciding factor. With players having relegation wage reductions written into their contracts, could Evertons own players sue them for loss of earnings? Would be fairly unprecedented but then a club actually getting a solid punishment for FFP at PL level is also unprecedented. Talking of wage reductions, your post made me search and apparently only new deals and or signings is it February 2022 have wage deduction clauses in.. had Everton come down in 2022 or perhaps even 2023 that could've been carnage, mayhem. 10-16 players in full PL wages, TV money crashing down by £60-70m, FFP limits down from £105m in 3 years to £83m all coming simultaneously. Edited November 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) Good perspective. https://theconversation.com/everton-fc-lost-ten-valuable-points-for-breaking-financial-rules-but-football-fans-may-eventually-consider-it-a-win-218274 The problem with the Everton rake and I suppose it may go for any club, it doesn't l9ok at the wider angle. Some sort of special deal between one club and a League isn't acceptable. There are 19 other clubs if just the PL and if the wider game, numerous other clubs. Everton fans say the sanction is too harsh a punishment but blithely neglect as I suppose fans of many clubs might, consideration of the deterrence element and that of vindication. A club don't exist in a bubble. I'm stating the obvious but to fulfil all 3 perhaps it should even have been laat year or 2021-22. 10 points now they could well survive but it could also knock them back badly. Edited November 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 24, 2023 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) Democracy sure but. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12788199/Everton-fans-protest-Premier-League-deduction.html They have the right obviously but it's all a bit toys out of pram. Edited November 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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