italian dave Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 20 hours ago, spudski said: ....apparently the player asked the ref whether it was ok to take it quickly. And he said yes. I guess as defenders you have to be constantly alert and not expect to play to the whistle. All time club record broken as well. 40 this season so far. Should it have stood? Absolutely. (Leaving aside the rolling ball and offside issues). I miss the art of the quick free kick. I hate the way that opposing players run towards the ball to stand over it and have to be told to get back 10 yards. A free kick is meant to be to the advantage of the team taking it. And I don’t buy the ‘ref has to blow’ argument: in areas of the pitch that are less of an attacking threat it’s quite common for free kicks to be taken with barely a touch of the had to stop the ball and certainly with no whistle to restart the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, italian dave said: Should it have stood? Absolutely. (Leaving aside the rolling ball and offside issues). I miss the art of the quick free kick. I hate the way that opposing players run towards the ball to stand over it and have to be told to get back 10 yards. A free kick is meant to be to the advantage of the team taking it. And I don’t buy the ‘ref has to blow’ argument: in areas of the pitch that are less of an attacking threat it’s quite common for free kicks to be taken with barely a touch of the had to stop the ball and certainly with no whistle to restart the game. I totally agree, as most have pointed out, it's the inconsistency across the pitch. Apparently the Notts County manager has told his players to be constantly asking the ref whether they can take a free quick quickly. The whole ' theatre' of a ' set piece' free kick, where defence builds wall, players position etc etc etc....waiting for the ref to blow his whistle....being told by the ref to wait for the whistle...has no bearing on other free kicks around the pitch. Other times when teams have been pulled back from playing a quick free kick, and told to wait for the whistle and defence to fully retreat 10 yards. The referees discretion on the day. It's so inconsistent. I'd be in the ear of the ref every time a free kick is given around the box, asking to take it quickly and not play to the whistle, to take advantage of the opposition concentrating on building a wall rather than defending. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 9 hours ago, Portland Bill said: A referee only ‘has’ to blow his whistle for two restarts, a kick off, and a penalty. Not a corner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Marcus Aurelius said: Always loved Korey making the most of this, whenever I player would stand in front the ball, he’d just kick in in to them even if a ball wasn’t on, and then start going mad at the red, often getting a yellow for their player. Don’t know why we don’t do it more. I personally hate that. May be just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Just now, CrackingCheeseGromit said: I personally hate that. May be just me. Getting the opposition booked for obstruction(?) or intentionally kicking it to get the other player booked? Edited March 30, 2023 by Marcus Aurelius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Marcus Aurelius said: Getting the opposition booked for obstruction(?) or intentionally kicking it to get the other player booked? The latter, although I get what you are saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, CrackingCheeseGromit said: I personally hate that. May be just me. I’m sure it’s not just you, but funny how we all see things. Personally, I hate the insistence of the offending team players standing in front of the ball. Sometimes running 10 yards to do so. They are supposed to retreat 10 yards. I’d kick it at them every time! Edited March 30, 2023 by italian dave 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Portland Bill said: There are no different rules. As long as the free kick is taken from the right place it’s fine. Why do you think opposition players stand over the ball, they know it can be taking quickly, Then what is so controversial about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 21 hours ago, spudski said: ....apparently the player asked the ref whether it was ok to take it quickly. And he said yes. I guess as defenders you have to be constantly alert and not expect to play to the whistle. All time club record broken as well. 40 this season so far. The referee should also be giving the defending team instruction .. On my whistle etc. Refs providing information of what the expectations are part of their control of the game. So the answer could be no depending on what information the ref has given the players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said: Always loved Korey making the most of this, whenever I player would stand in front the ball, he’d just kick in in to them even if a ball wasn’t on, and then start going mad at the red, often getting a yellow for their player. Don’t know why we don’t do it more. Tinnion was the master at doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, Cowshed said: The referee should also be giving the defending team instruction .. On my whistle etc. Refs providing information of what the expectations are part of their control of the game. So the answer could be no depending on what information the ref has given the players. And this is where controversy occurs. Referees changing how they are going to control a match, from one game to the other. 'On my whistle' is over ruling the laws of the game. A free kick can be taken at any time once given, as long as the defending team have moved 10 yards away...by law you don't have to wait for a whistle to restart. https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-13---free-kicks 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, spudski said: And this is where controversy occurs. Referees changing how they are going to control a match, from one game to the other. 'On my whistle' is over ruling the laws of the game. A free kick can be taken at any time once given, as long as the defending team have moved 10 yards away...by law you don't have to wait for a whistle to restart. https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-13---free-kicks On my whistle isn't over ruling the laws of game. A ref can blow the whistle at any time to stop the game and restart it. A ref can inform a defending team on my whistle at free kicks, direct keeper etc and they routinely do. Its good practice information. This goal was very inconsistent. Its not a quick free kick at all. Its ten seconds plus after the offence the "quick" free kick is taken. Players around the ball. Players doing laces up. The refs proximity to the ball is odd. He is getting there quickly to stop the game. If you want quick free kicks the ref stays away (they do), Its not normal practice. Its not normal control given the level of the game. The majority of refs do not allow free kicks to be taken like this. Hence I wonder what the players expectations would be from his instruction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Cowshed said: On my whistle isn't over ruling the laws of game. A ref can blow the whistle at any time to stop the game and restart it. A ref can inform a defending team on my whistle at free kicks, direct keeper etc and they routinely do. Its good practice information. This goal was very inconsistent. Its not a quick free kick at all. Its ten seconds plus after the offence the "quick" free kick is taken. Players around the ball. Players doing laces up. The refs proximity to the ball is odd. He is getting there quickly to stop the game. If you want quick free kicks the ref stays away (they do), Its not normal practice. Its not normal control given the level of the game. The majority of refs do not allow free kicks to be taken like this. Hence I wonder what the players expectations would be from his instruction. I see it completely differently. The laws of the game are in place. Teams play to those rules. A referee deciding to play to the whistle is over riding those rules. He's changing the laws of the game for his benefit. How are fans, managers and players meant to find continuity....if refs do as they like at Free kicks. Also you are relying on communication from the ref being heard by everyone. It's too open to being controversial. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Reminds me of a Man Utd corner from a few years ago. Rooney placing the ball for the corner also touched it briefly with his foot to put it in play. Giggs jogged over to "take" the corner, but instead just ran infield with the ball, crossed, and they scored. The ref didn't allow it. Here's the (crap quality) video: Edited March 30, 2023 by IAmNick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, IAmNick said: Reminds me of a Man Utd corner from a few years ago. Rooney placing the ball for the corner also touched it briefly with his foot to put it in play. Giggs jogged over to "take" the corner, but instead just ran infield with the ball, crossed, and they scored. The ref didn't allow it. Here's the (crap quality) video: On the commentary you can hear them say the referee had whistled. You don't need to wait for a whistle at corners, free kicks or throw ins...only penalties. Again...referees overriding the laws of the game. Goal should have stood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 6 minutes ago, spudski said: I see it completely differently. The laws of the game are in place. Teams play to those rules. A referee deciding to play to the whistle is over riding those rules. He's changing the laws of the game for his benefit. How are fans, managers and players meant to find continuity....if refs do as they like at Free kicks. Also you are relying on communication from the ref being heard by everyone. It's too open to being controversial. No. that is incorrect. A ref can use his whistle at free kicks. They do frequently. You are saying the goal is "controversial". It is remarkable, its not a normal goal because of the refs unusual actions. The majority of referees would not be allowing that free quick to be taken in that manner after that duration of time. There are other elements that are uneven. Refs at that level are accomplished and skilled, that lack of level of control and that rare goal is more akin to Sunday league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 7 minutes ago, Cowshed said: No. that is incorrect. A ref can use his whistle at free kicks. They do frequently. You are saying the goal is "controversial". It is remarkable, its not a normal goal because of the refs unusual actions. The majority of referees would not be allowing that free quick to be taken in that manner after that duration of time. There are other elements that are uneven. Refs at that level are accomplished and skilled, that lack of level of control and that rare goal is more akin to Sunday league. I know they do...you are missing my point completely. Why have laws in place, saying you do not have to play to the refs whistle at free kicks, corners and throw ins? A ref has overrided those rules, if he's told players to play to the whistle. What refs usually do should have no relevance. They are wrong to override the laws. Just because they do it...it doesn't make it right. You may as well not have the laws in place at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugarwray Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 15 hours ago, Portland Bill said: A referee only ‘has’ to blow his whistle for two restarts, a kick off, and a penalty. Also for the end of each half (including extra time) I thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 What is the rule(s) then from free kicks? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atyeo's lift Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 The Notts County goal looked good to me - the kit not so much.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 hours ago, spudski said: I know they do...you are missing my point completely. Why have laws in place, saying you do not have to play to the refs whistle at free kicks, corners and throw ins? A ref has overrided those rules, if he's told players to play to the whistle. What refs usually do should have no relevance. They are wrong to override the laws. Just because they do it...it doesn't make it right. You may as well not have the laws in place at all. Because that is what the ref wants. The ref if moving players away from the ball to ten metres uses the whistle - He will state play to my whistle, he will state what he wants. That manages the game, its control, its management. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Cowshed said: Because that is what the ref wants. The ref if moving players away from the ball to ten metres uses the whistle - He will state play to my whistle, he will state what he wants. That manages the game, its control, its management. Which makes no sense at all. No point in having laws in place, if the ref is going to ignore them and play to his rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, spudski said: Which makes no sense at all. No point in having laws in place, if the ref is going to ignore them and play to his rules. Given the timescale the non quick free kick was taken going to ceremonial does make sense. Free kicks around the box taking that long post ten seconds will go on the whistle. This free kick is unusual (controversial), it did not follow norms. Edited March 30, 2023 by Cowshed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 hours ago, sugarwray said: Also for the end of each half (including extra time) I thought Restarts!. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Given the timescale the non quick free kick was taken going to ceremonial does make sense. Free kicks around the box taking that long post ten seconds will go on the whistle. This free kick is unusual (controversial), it did not follow norms. This is just one example. As you have pointed out...Referees ' manage' a game regularly their way. Ignoring the laws, and telling players to play to the whistle. Free kicks often take time because the defenders don't move 10 yards away from the ball. Even if a team take a quick free kick, if the defence isn't 10 yards away, it has to be retaken. This is where the laws need to change imo. The advantage of a free kick is taken away from the offence, if the defence is allowed to re organise or stand in front of the ball. Book players blocking a quick free being taken. Or allow the offense to take a quick free kick regardless of the defenders position. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midred Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 4 hours ago, sugarwray said: Also for the end of each half (including extra time) I thought And depending on how important he wants to look! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 hour ago, spudski said: This is just one example. As you have pointed out...Referees ' manage' a game regularly their way. Ignoring the laws, and telling players to play to the whistle. Its an example that fits the scenario in your initial post. Its not ignoring the laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Its an example that fits the scenario in your initial post. Its not ignoring the laws. You are being really pedantic now and ignoring the intent and flow of the conversation. It's fine to say you disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 30, 2023 Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, spudski said: You are being really pedantic now and ignoring the intent and flow of the conversation. It's fine to say you disagree. In that position, and with that delay etc a free kick to the whistle (ceremonial free kick) would not be ignoring the laws. It would be normal. Its surprising that the ref in this instance does not show the whistle, state on my whistle, place the ball, then move to allowing the opponents opportunity to form the wall, ensure the wall is in the correct position and move on to blowing the whistle to restart the match. This is a rule at free kicks. Edited March 30, 2023 by Cowshed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 30, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Cowshed said: In that position, and with that delay etc a free kick to the whistle (ceremonial free kick) would not be ignoring the laws. It would be normal. Its surprising that the ref in this instance does not show the whistle, state on my whistle, place the ball, then move to allowing the opponents opportunity to form the wall, ensure the wall is in the correct position and move on to blowing the whistle to restart the match. This is a rule at free kicks. Again...you are missing the point of the discussion. The drive of the discussion is not about what the general rule is. It is about a refs in general overruling the laws of the free kick. Edited March 30, 2023 by spudski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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