Playing Sam Bell and Andi Weimann out of position

[bcfcnick]

 

I think it's been unfair on Sam Bell in particular - first full back and then centre forward this season after thriving out wide this season and going on a scoring run.  I think it's unhelpful to both the team and the two players to play them anywhere but their best position.  There are a few players who can excel in a few positions (Scott and Pring for example) but Bell and Weimann need to play in their best positions where they thrive. 

Weimann played in Alex Scott's position last season and scored 22 in all competitions.  Bell had a prolific run where he was playing on the left side of attack and used his pace to run on to through balls and score.  Goals have since tried up since the two new players (Mehetmi and Cornick) were recruited and Pearson has done his best to give them game time. Bell, with his pace and eye for goal, is a terrific counter attacking asset and that's the way the team is designed to play whereas Anis slows down play out wide.

I know Weimann has had injuries, he's not getting any younger and can't get picked before Alex Scott but I still feel he has another prolific season in him if played in Scott's position next year. It's probably Bell who has been more hard done by and it's no coincidence the goals up front have dried up as well.

Scott will inevitably be sold so why not give Weimann a chance to play in that role next season where he was a prolific scorer and perhaps with Mehmeti as cover there as well as he has goals in him.  I think Mehmeti would do well centrally and that leaves the left side for Sam Bell although cover is needed of course.   Obviously Conway is a candidate for the the number 10 position (and he does click with Nahki Wells) but I think he would do well playing as the central striker as he has aerial ability and has a natural goal scorers instinct in the box.   

I think with the attacking players we have mean we can be a free scoring team next year if set up correctly and the money should be focused on defence, midfield and probably a top class keeper as well. If only another Maenpaa could be unearthed.  Injuries were an issue but he's the best keeper with the best temperament and positioning I've seen for us for many years. 

 

[City oz]

Injuries is something that occurred which limited drastically NPs strategy and he had little choice to try some players in different positions over the last few months.

[Sir Geoff]

11 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

 

I think it's been unfair on Sam Bell in particular - first full back and then centre forward this season after thriving out wide this season and going on a scoring run.  I think it's unhelpful to both the team and the two players to play them anywhere but their best position.  There are a few players who can excel in a few positions (Scott and Pring for example) but Bell and Weimann need to play in their best positions where they thrive. 

Weimann played in Alex Scott's position last season and scored 22 in all competitions.  Bell had a prolific run where he was playing on the left side of attack and used his pace to run on to through balls and score.  Goals have since tried up since the two new players (Mehetmi and Cornick) were recruited and Pearson has done his best to give them game time. Bell, with his pace and eye for goal, is a terrific counter attacking asset and that's the way the team is designed to play whereas Anis slows down play out wide.

I know Weimann has had injuries, he's not getting any younger and can't get picked before Alex Scott but I still feel he has another prolific season in him if played in Scott's position next year. It's probably Bell who has been more hard done by and it's no coincidence the goals up front have dried up as well.

Scott will inevitably be sold so why not give Weimann a chance to play in that role next season where he was a prolific scorer and perhaps with Mehmeti as cover there as well as he has goals in him.  I think Mehmeti would do well centrally and that leaves the left side for Sam Bell although cover is needed of course.   Obviously Conway is a candidate for the the number 10 position (and he does click with Nahki Wells) but I think he would do well playing as the central striker as he has aerial ability and has a natural goal scorers instinct in the box.   

I think with the attacking players we have mean we can be a free scoring team next year if set up correctly and the money should be focused on defence, midfield and probably a top class keeper as well. If only another Maenpaa could be unearthed.  Injuries were an issue but he's the best keeper with the best temperament and positioning I've seen for us for many years. 

 

If everyone's fit, neither get in the side in their ' natural' positions. They have played out of position due to necessity.

[David Brent]

It’s about doing a job for the team. Alex Scott spent a bit of time this, and last, season ‘out of position’ at RWB. 
 

If you asked Bell and Weimann then I’m sure both would say they are happy to play wherever the manager deems them most effective to that particular fixture etc..

[GrahamC]

Bell hasn’t played full back this season, that was last season.

Weimann has admitted himself the WSM formation really suited him, but he’s the only one of those 3 that’s left now, so has had to adapt to different team mates.

I still think he has a part to play but don’t think he’s ever going to get near to last season’s incredible stats.

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

 

I think it's been unfair on Sam Bell in particular - first full back and then centre forward this season after thriving out wide this season and going on a scoring run.  I think it's unhelpful to both the team and the two players to play them anywhere but their best position.  There are a few players who can excel in a few positions (Scott and Pring for example) but Bell and Weimann need to play in their best positions where they thrive.

Bell plays as a CF in the u21s, is the u21s top-scorer, has played as a CF all through the age groups.  Not unusual for a young player, especially a quick one, slight in build to play wide initially.  FWIW I thought he did the usual “burst onto the scene” for a few games and then lost impact, albeit some of those games were as the central striker.  I’d suggest no opposition manager gave a toss about Bell until those couple of goals, then they start planning for him.  Matty Pearson at RB vs Huddersfield muscled him out of the game and he played LF that night.  It’s a learning curve for Bell, and I don’t think he’s been hard done by at all.  He’s got to learn to be influential in matches.

As for his couple of games at RB, it was more like RWB role because Nige played Williams as the “front sweeper” so it was like have a back-3 and WBs.  It didn’t harm Wes Burn when Cotts played him there, despite being a forward.  Also, if you are a youngster making your way, you’ll play anywhere.  Better to get minutes in an unfamiliar position than be on the outside.

Weimann played in Alex Scott's position last season and scored 22 in all competitions.  Bell had a prolific run where he was playing on the left side of attack and used his pace to run on to through balls and score.  Goals have since tried up since the two new players (Mehetmi and Cornick) were recruited and Pearson has done his best to give them game time. Bell, with his pace and eye for goal, is a terrific counter attacking asset and that's the way the team is designed to play whereas Anis slows down play out wide.

in recent games you’ll note our opponents have set up deep and not allowed us to play counter attacking football.  Nige is also trying to evolve the way we play currently.

we are also playing quite differently to last season where Weimann was a beneficiary of Martin and Semenyo.

I know Weimann has had injuries, he's not getting any younger and can't get picked before Alex Scott but I still feel he has another prolific season in him if played in Scott's position next year. It's probably Bell who has been more hard done by and it's no coincidence the goals up front have dried up as well.

he might well play in that position next season.

I think goals drying up and Bell not starting is to simplistic a correlation.  There are other dynamics to it than one player not being selected.

Scott will inevitably be sold so why not give Weimann a chance to play in that role next season where he was a prolific scorer and perhaps with Mehmeti as cover there as well as he has goals in him.  I think Mehmeti would do well centrally and that leaves the left side for Sam Bell although cover is needed of course.   Obviously Conway is a candidate for the the number 10 position (and he does click with Nahki Wells) but I think he would do well playing as the central striker as he has aerial ability and has a natural goal scorers instinct in the box.   

I think with the attacking players we have mean we can be a free scoring team next year if set up correctly and the money should be focused on defence, midfield and probably a top class keeper as well. If only another Maenpaa could be unearthed.  Injuries were an issue but he's the best keeper with the best temperament and positioning I've seen for us for many years. 

 

For info.

[Rossi the Robin]

Won’t do Bell any harm whatsoever long term - good experience 

[bcfcnick]

He was playing superbly on the left and on a scoring run.  Why change it?  I accept the need for players to adjust positions due to injuries but that wasn't the case in this situation as he was dropped to accommodate a new signing.  I just think it wasn't the right thing to do for the team.

[Sir Geoff]

6 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

He was playing superbly on the left and on a scoring run.  Why change it?  I accept the need for players to adjust positions due to injuries but that wasn't the case in this situation as he was dropped to accommodate a new signing.  I just think it wasn't the right thing to do for the team.

I'm not sure 2 goals can be counted as a scoring run.

[Davefevs]

30 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

He was playing superbly on the left and on a scoring run.  Why change it?  I accept the need for players to adjust positions due to injuries but that wasn't the case in this situation as he was dropped to accommodate a new signing.  I just think it wasn't the right thing to do for the team.

He wasn’t really dropped was he?  In effect he earned an opportunity to play in his true position…CF.  He didn’t really take it.  His last 2 starts at LF have been a bit underwhelming (Huddersfield / Swansea).  That’s football.  It’s a squad game, he’s 20, he’s closing in on 1k minutes of first team football this season, and he’s had some good moments so far that are encouraging for his future.  I bet he’s delighted with his progress.

[Robbored]

Weimann is vastly experienced and can play anywhere in a forward position. Wide left, attacking midfielder behind the front two or as one of the front two. I wonder what he say if asked what his best position is?

Bell is the opposite in terms of experience. This is his first full Championship season and is learning his craft with the guidance of more experienced guys like James, King and Weimann. Nige is kinda experimenting with him looking for where he’s the most influential.

If asked his favourite position Bell would probably say that he sees himself as a striker but would play anywhere to get in the team.

I certainly don’t have a problem with Nige looking to find the best position for him or any youngster for that matter.

[LondonBristolian]

I'm with @Davefevson this. Bell has made great progress this season, had a few starts and put himself in contention but he's also shown he's not quite ready to be part of the first XI. He probably a lot closer than he expected to be and he needs to work hard and take his chance.

Weimann is a bit of a different situation. Last season we were set up perfectly to get the best out of him but the way we played didn't get the best out of the rest of the team. The midfield of James, Naismith and Scott produced our most effective team performances this season but was effective with a more structured attack that was less effective for a player like Weimann who likes to get everywhere on the pitch rather than stick to one position. As it stands, Weimann's "natural position" (in terms of both shape and playing style) isn't one we really play with at all. 

If Scott goes in the summer, there's a space for Weimann to take his place but that would potentially mean a re-structure of the midfield and attack to ensure we still had creativity in midfield and forwards creating the space for Weimann to burst into space ahead of them. That worked really well with Semenyo & Martin and could work again but NP needs to decide if that's the best approach for the whole team. I really rate Weimann but I'm glad Pearson is trying to find a structure that is most effective as a team rather than trying to accommodate any particular player. 

[headhunter]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

 

I still think he has a part to play but don’t think he’s ever going to get near to last season’s incredible stats.

Last season was a one off when you look at his career overall. 10-12 goals a season striker.

[bcfcnick]

Looks like Sam Bell had another good game on the left.

Davefevs, yes Sam Bell largely played centre forward in the under 21's but there is all the difference in playing in that position at that level compared with the greater physicality demanded by the Championship.  Besides, playing deeper with his pace with an ability to cut in suits our counter attacking philosophy

There is generally a sensible rule that players who are excelling in a position aren't moved elsewhere in the team or dropped unless injuries necessitate. Injuries for centre forward options wasn't the prime reason why he was moved from the left - it was to accommodate Mehmeti.  I also think Anis will be a real asset and will be more of a threat from a more central position.  Good to see him get off the mark and that will boost his confidence.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, bcfcnick said:

Besides, playing deeper with his pace with an ability to cut in suits our counter attacking philosophy

I actually think his threat is on the outside, which is great for a right footer, because defenders are expecting him to come inside.  That’s where he did well today.  Was a shame the few times he went past his man on the outside he didn’t get a good ball in.  Hoever (their RB) is highly rated, has been on fire in recent weeks, and a huge attacking threat for them.  But he offered very little today, forced inside much of the time…into congestion…and wasn’t very good defensively, exposing Wilmot - who I think is a poor defender, but good with the ball.

All in all Belly had a good game today.

[bcfc01]

I think Bell is a better option wide left than Mehmeti at this time.

Defenders know exactly what to expect from Mehmeti, he'll keep it at his feet and cut inside, its a bit predictable although he has very quick feet and it can sometimes come off..

With Bell, he will knock a ball past a defender and beat him for pace - he had a very good game today which will give him a lot of confidence.

Both have great potential and a pre-season could see both excelling next season.

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

I think Bell is a better option wide left than Mehmeti at this time.

Defenders know exactly what to expect from Mehmeti, he'll keep it at his feet and cut inside, its a bit predictable although he has very quick feet and it can sometimes come off..

With Bell, he will knock a ball past a defender and beat him for pace - he had a very good game today which will give him a lot of confidence.

Both have great potential and a pre-season could see both excelling next season.

 

 

 

Kinda made me chuckle.  It kinda reads (to me anyway) like:

• Mehmeti has one trick - cut inside
• Bell has one trick - go on the outside

but one (Bell) is better than the other (Mehmeti).

FWIW I’ve been impressed with Mehmeti since he came in.  I really haven’t understood the criticism.

 

[bcfc01]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Kinda made me chuckle.  It kinda reads (to me anyway) like:

• Mehmeti has one trick - cut inside
• Bell has one trick - go on the outside

but one (Bell) is better than the other (Mehmeti).

FWIW I’ve been impressed with Mehmeti since he came in.  I really haven’t understood the criticism.

 

Made me chuckle too.

Each to his own.

[REDOXO]

13 hours ago, bcfcnick said:

 

I think it's been unfair on Sam Bell in particular - first full back and then centre forward this season after thriving out wide this season and going on a scoring run.  I think it's unhelpful to both the team and the two players to play them anywhere but their best position.  There are a few players who can excel in a few positions (Scott and Pring for example) but Bell and Weimann need to play in their best positions where they thrive. 

Weimann played in Alex Scott's position last season and scored 22 in all competitions.  Bell had a prolific run where he was playing on the left side of attack and used his pace to run on to through balls and score.  Goals have since tried up since the two new players (Mehetmi and Cornick) were recruited and Pearson has done his best to give them game time. Bell, with his pace and eye for goal, is a terrific counter attacking asset and that's the way the team is designed to play whereas Anis slows down play out wide.

I know Weimann has had injuries, he's not getting any younger and can't get picked before Alex Scott but I still feel he has another prolific season in him if played in Scott's position next year. It's probably Bell who has been more hard done by and it's no coincidence the goals up front have dried up as well.

Scott will inevitably be sold so why not give Weimann a chance to play in that role next season where he was a prolific scorer and perhaps with Mehmeti as cover there as well as he has goals in him.  I think Mehmeti would do well centrally and that leaves the left side for Sam Bell although cover is needed of course.   Obviously Conway is a candidate for the the number 10 position (and he does click with Nahki Wells) but I think he would do well playing as the central striker as he has aerial ability and has a natural goal scorers instinct in the box.   

I think with the attacking players we have mean we can be a free scoring team next year if set up correctly and the money should be focused on defence, midfield and probably a top class keeper as well. If only another Maenpaa could be unearthed.  Injuries were an issue but he's the best keeper with the best temperament and positioning I've seen for us for many years. 

 

You understand we have injuries and are having to play players where we can?

[1960maaan]

I don't see it as playing out of position, he seems to have played a lot from the left in the first team and it's suits his game. In fact his goals , Swansea, WBA (2) & PNE have come playing left side. 
He is a perfect example of why I've said I want Mehmeti to work on his left side. Bell is predominantly right foot and you could see they wanted to prevent him cutting inside onto his stronger foot. Because he is happy going onto his left he created several opportunities going outside. 

Next season, fully fit squad , new signings, some leaving , I don't think we can be sure what system we will play or who will be here to play it. Personally, I think ( at the moment ) he is better from wide of a 3 than through the middle. He is only young though and will improve with experience. Exactly what Pearson wants as a forward, hard working and happy to defend when needed, did some great work in his own half yesterday.

[bcfcnick]

3 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I don't see it as playing out of position, he seems to have played a lot from the left in the first team and it's suits his game. In fact his goals , Swansea, WBA (2) & PNE have come playing left side. 

That's my point , I want to see Sam Bell playing on the left and cutting in with his pace rather than as centre forward which relies on more physicality and the asset of Bell's pace isn't used as much.

Others have pointed out Bell as played as centre forward in the under 21's but that really does demand a different level of physicality.

[bcfcnick]

10 hours ago, REDOXO said:

You understand we have injuries and are having to play players where we can?

Yes, I acknowledged injuries require flexibility especially with such a depleted squad, but I made the accurate point that injuries weren't so much of an issue in the centre of attack with just Conway injured at the time and Wells, Cornick and Weimann available. 

The point was that Bell was moved to accommodate Mehmeti rather than juggling for injury reasons.  That move slowed the teams's counter attacking style down and Bell on the left is perfectly suited to that set-up as he showed yesterday.  It's not meant to have a go at Mehmeti who looks a real talent and quite driven to succeed. He might be suited to performing more centrally in the position Alex Scott has played in although that's a tough act to follow for sure for any player. He'd contribute more goals though. 

I know Pring has had to be moved out of necessity due to injuries but he's another example of someone who is excelled in his preferred position.  Looking forward to when central defence additions are made so he can return to left back. We have an exciting and pacy left side with him and Bell there.  Not forgetting Atkinson's ability to bring the ball out as well from the left either.  Let's hope he can return to his level after such a serious injury.

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

The point was that Bell was moved to accommodate Mehmeti rather than juggling for injury reasons.  That move slowed the teams's counter attacking style down and Bell on the left is perfectly suited to that set-up as he showed yesterday. 

Problem with this is that some of the teams we were playing against, especially at home, set up deep so there wouldn’t have been any / little chance to counter-attack.

The other thing to consider is that Wells might’ve needed a rest, he was looking a bit lacklustre for a few games.

I think overall, Nige is using different combos to try to keep it fresh.  Belly is getting his first real taste of first team football, has made a good impact, but he’s had indifferent performances in that time too.  Yesterday was a good fit for Bell.  Squad game!

[bcfcnick]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

 Belly is getting his first real taste of first team football, has made a good impact, but he’s had indifferent performances in that time too.  Yesterday was a good fit for Bell.  Squad game!

Yes indifferent when played as centre forward but consistently a threat with the addition of goals when played wide so he can use his pace to cut in.

It's a squad game and it's tricky for Pearson due to lack of depth this season but it shouldn't be next season. with cash available to ensure players can be played in the positions they excel in.  Weimann yesterday played much better when moved centrally supporting the attack (disallowed goal which was marginal) and there should be enough depth next season to ensure he plays in that central 10 position or is on the bench rather than stuck out wide. He'll work his socks off anywhere in the team and never give short of 100% effort but it doesn't really work for him or the team if he plays wide.   

Yes it's a squad game but players shouldn't be moved to accommodate incoming players when they are playing well in a position and the team is winning.   

I remember Lee Johnson getting a lot of flak with his square pegs in round holes approach and I think Weimann out wide and Bell at centre forward fall into that category.  Not to the same extent of playing Bell at full back but it's not ideal.

[Davefevs]

No, indifferent at LF too. I don’t think Bell has been a constant threat at LF. He had an initial burst (great stuff), but he’s had other games since at LF where he’s been quiet / lacking influence starting there.  Huddersfield (a) for example.

Opponents now know what to expect. That’s the next development stage for him to overcome, especially if he plays there against deeper sides. And work on that left foot too.

Nige still wants a small squad, hence versatility will still be important.

I don’t think he was moved to accommodate Mehmeti, it’s more grey than that.

He had a decent game yesterday. More like his earlier burst when he hit his first starts.

I never had a problem with square pegs / round holes with LJ. My biggest beef re team set-up / selection, was the constant formation changes, often mid-game having only changed pre-game from last game. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Davefevs

[Henry]

I think Bell is missing playing with Scott, Naismith and Pring behind him. He’s not great with the ball, he doesn’t have a trick and whilst he has pace, he is easily blocked off due to his physical weakness. 

He needs the ball played in between the RB and CB to put him through on goal.

[Davefevs]

Think the whole team would benefit from those three playing!!!