Offer Pearson a contract extension NOW

[Hxj]

Semenyo went for roughly 8 figures - he made mistakes all the time.

Scott will probably go for well into 8 figures - he makes mistakes all the time.

We are fishing in a pond where we might spend £1 million or so, and/or pay them £500,000 a year.  Who are all these perfect players that we seemingly fail to sign?  List please!

[Simon bristol]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If you probably watch every Championship goal at the weekend, or chances not taking, the vast majority will come from defensive errors rather than brilliant attacking play, including team or individual errors. Let’s not forget we are playing without any real aerial ball winners, neither Vyner or Pring are that type of defender, Pring isn’t even a CB. We are trying to get through a period without Atkinson or Kalas (or Naismith).  The fact we’ve brought down the goals conceded is a reason to see big improvement.

Re wage bill…in an ideal world, yes, but losses aren’t all about the wage bill.  Nige has brought down the wage bill and amortisation considerably over his tenure….I wish other parts of the football and wider operation could boast such claims.  The “other costs” looks to be a behemoth of inefficiency.

I think from next season onwards we can start to judge wage bill v performance a bit more closely.  Dead wood gone.  Every player here next season (bar Joe Williams) will’ve either been signed by Pearson, or re-contracted (extended / option triggered) by him.  It’s his “wage bill” then.  Then we judge.

Yes.. whats your view on how much we can spend this summer dave, assuming scott does go for say 25m?

[LondonBristolian]

I definitely agree with offer Pearson a contract extension. At the same time, I very much hope that the new Chairman is working with Brian Tinnion to ensure we have long-term continuity and that a change of manager wouldn't lead to an overhaul of playing squad or playing style. 

I have to disagree with the idea of a target man, or at least that a target man is essential. I agree we need different options up front but I also think that, of Conway, Wells, Cornick, Weimann, Mehmeti, Bell and Sykes, only Cornick and Weimann could really be described as similar players (and, even then, it's a bit of a stretch to say even that). Any new signing has to fit in with the playing style and it is pretty clear that pace and energy is a key part of this, especially in our front line. Don't get me wrong - I'd jump at the chance to sign a player with pace, energy AND a physical presence  but we're talking a Didier Drogba-type player there and they are expensive and hard to come by for a reason.

I really don't miss the days of having "clubs in the bag" and I'd rather we signed players that fit our playing style than signing a player to give us an "option" who would necessitate a change in everyone else's playing style the moment he set foot on the pitch. 

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by LondonBristolian

[Silvio Dante]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

In the second half of the pod (the bit I listened to) Ian talks a lot of sense in fairness.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Yes.. whats your view on how much we can spend this summer dave, assuming scott does go for say 25m?

What Hxj says below  

29 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Semenyo went for roughly 8 figures - he made mistakes all the time.

Scott will probably go for well into 8 figures - he makes mistakes all the time.

We are fishing in a pond where we might spend £1 million or so, and/or pay them £500,000 a year.  Who are all these perfect players that we seemingly fail to sign?  List please!

Basically a combo of OOC players and small fee signings like Mehmeti.

We aren’t gonna be spending £5m on a player just because we get £25m for Scott.  Scott might not even go!

[AshtonGreat]

2 hours ago, headhunter said:

There's no denying Nigel had an unholy mess to clear up after the damage done through the profligacy of an off the leash Mark Ashton [and you have to blame SL for that] who was working with two, let's be honest, lightweight managers.

Here we are now with the decks cleared of financial mayhem with cash already in the bank from the sale of Semenyo and the coffers likely to be boosted massively by the sale of Scott putting us in a position of financial strength bettered only by those clubs receiving parachute payments.

On the field this season there has been progress and were it not for the autumn collapse after a stunning opening 8 games followed by a dip in the wake of the highly creditable performance  against Man City I believe we would certainly be in contention for a play off place now.

Nigel has one year left on his contract yet in the summer his actions in the transfer market, working alongside Brian Tinnion, are going to determine the on the field shape of the team for the next three years. For me it would make sense to give him another year now perhaps with a two way exercisable option for a second. Manager at Bristol City is probably one of the safest jobs in football and, while some may disagree, if you are a player contemplating a move here in the summer and you know you are one of the current manager's top picks I think you're more likely to sign  knowing he's here for at least 2 years of your typical 3 year contract.

I'm not a fan of Pearson but that contract extension now seems the right thing to do.

In this latest episode of FBC podcast in addition to reviewing the performance at Watford we debate that in 23/24 anything less than match the efforts of Luton & Millwall who look destined for places in the play offs should be considered failure. Here's a link to listen: https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-2g95c-13e327c

 

 

You call LJ a lightweight manager, but he almost got us into the Championship play-offs

[KegCity]

2 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

You call LJ a lightweight manager, but he almost got us into the Championship play-offs

Big difference between getting us there and almost getting us there though.

[cidercity1987]

3 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

You call LJ a lightweight manager, but he almost got us into the Championship play-offs

Definitely weighs less than the majority of OTIB posters...

[Tom]

2 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

I agree. Particularly around the recruitment aspect. Pearson is often cited by ex players as a great leader and a player people want to play for. He's arguably the biggest "name" we've had in charge since Joe Jordan and that is something we can now take advantage of after the years of austerity.

 

I would say that Coppell was arguably on par or a little bigger, although if you said "biggest "name" to stay longer than a few months" I'd have agreed  

[headhunter]

3 minutes ago, Tom said:

I would say that Coppell was arguably on par or a little bigger, although if you said "biggest "name" to stay longer than a few months" I'd have agreed  

Danny Wilson took unfashionable Barnsley to the top flight.

You check his record and it was year on year improvement. 

[AshtonGreat]

9 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Big difference between getting us there and almost getting us there though.

We only missed out by four points. That's one of our best ever finishes

[extonsred]

DofF sometime in the future...seem to have transition already in mind. 

[Bristol Rob]

Here's a question.....

How many City managers (in recent years) have either been offered new contracts or had an existing contract extended?

Given how so many clubs churn through managers, the fact we're having a debate over the merits of offering new terms to NP much make City a bit of a outlyer in terms of the Championship. 

Just because it was there to view, have a gander at the longest serving managers in the EFL

EFL Official Website - Managers Table

Watford, unsurprisingly aren't bothering the top of the list - where for them, 'Manager of the month' is more of a 'Manager for the month' award.

So, stability or sacrfice - twist or stick, and how much of any managers success is luck? For example, if we let NP go at the end of the season (and I think we should offer him a new deal) and a someone comes in, but with the opportunity to spend a few quid and they do well, would their success be as a result of them being able to buy players, or because they've got an even better tune out of the existing, or if they did badly, would it be because they'd filled the squad with experience to the detriment of the youth development we've seen over the last few seasons. 

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

How many City managers (in recent years) have either been offered new contracts or had an existing contract extended?

Lee Johnson signed a 4 year extension in 2019. He should be coming up to the end of that now.

Edited April 17, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Taz]

If I'm honest, I don't think any contract extension will be happening until November at the earliest, January being more likely. From the boards perspective, let's see how we start next season and see how things are looking after a transfer window.

If somebody were to come in and want to speak to him between now and then, then maybe we would offer a longer deal, but I get the impression that he's pretty happy here. Overall most supporters can see what's happening (taken some a lot longer to realise/grasp what's happening), and he hasn't had the freedom to sign exactly when he would like - within reason obviously. 

Transfer funds could be dependent/reliant on Scott going, but we also need to remember that it wasn't long ago we were looking over our shoulders with regards to ffp and points deductions. We're not suddenly going to go out and splash the cash.

Back to the contract, if there was an announcement tomorrow that he has signed a new 1/2 year deal, I wouldn't be disappointed either. We are heading in the right direction, and that is with a very small squad, even before injuries are taken into consideration. 

I don't think there's any rush needed, and I think that both parties will probably be fairly happy with how things are at the moment anyway.

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

In the second half of the pod (the bit I listened to) Ian talks a lot of sense in fairness.

Your right Dave..........to dismiss Ian as a moany git is too simplistic.  His heart is in the right place, and he means well, admittidly he gets carried away sometimes, and is prone to be unrealistic on ocassions.  But as you rightly say, he does get to the heart of the matter occasionally, and speaks some sense, and  does make some interesting points and contributions.  To label him as pessimistic and negative is IMHO naive.

[KegCity]

26 minutes ago, AshtonGreat said:

We only missed out by four points. That's one of our best ever finishes

Ok. Not finishing in the playoffs while ruining the finances of the club isn’t a huge achievement to me.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Simon bristol said:

It has, but still, things like saturday keep happening, the jaio header against reading too, max was stood on his line watching that happen around him!

Perhaps watch the goal again because you're basing your opinion on the exact opposite of what actually happened.

O'Leary wasn't "stood on his line watching that happen around him" - Carroll wins the first header, O'Leary comes forward to claim it, doesn't get anywhere near it, ends up in no-mans land, and leaves Joao with a simple looped header into an empty net.

Furthermore, Andy Carroll is 6'3". Lucas Joao is 6'3". Our centre backs that day were Vyner and Pring. So that type of goal was an accident waiting to happen on that particular day. And unfortunately it did.

But only because injuries had deprived us of all of our tall, aerially strong defenders - Kalas, Atkinson, Naismith- and our only other tall players - Klose and Martin - had been correctly moved on in January.   

This won't always be the case though. You say these types of goals keep happening, I would say they're in no way indicative of our direction of travel - for 2 reasons:

1) You'd like to think we won't have so many injuries to key players again

2) But if we do, this summer is the first genuine opportunity Pearson will have to build a squad with the necessary depth that can cope with this number of injuries. He's said repeatedly we're light at centre back - give him the chance to do something about it.  He's said he wants a big, physically strong team - give him the chance to do something about it. The summer will be his first genuine opportunity to do so.   

And all that on top of the obvious improvements this season in number of goals conceded, defensive solidity, team cohesion. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, steveybadger said:

Just for a bit of context, since Boxing Day (all comps)

won 8

drawn 9

lost 5

That hasn’t added context at all, as it isn’t clear what point your making.

The performances at Xmas went poor, but since then we’ve been really good to watch most of the time. If he can then some of those draws into wins then we’ll be competitive 

[Tomo]

I would extend Nigel's contract tomorrow by a year, (so 5/2025) with a further year on the table if we reach play offs in 2024 or 2025.....

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

Advocating for him to get a new contract but adding this strange to me.

Genuinely interested - why aren't you a fan?

I find it difficult to understand why anyone wouldn't be, so curious.

If you ever listen to this podcast it would be fairly obvious.

 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Danny Wilson took unfashionable Barnsley to the top flight.

You check his record and it was year on year improvement. 

In League One, so completely irrelevant.

4 years with a million pound striker & one he paid £600k to never get promoted to a level that Ward, GJ & Cotterill all managed in their first full season isn’t something I would be sticking on my CV.

Wilson did an amazing job at Barnsley & a decent one at Sheff Wed but his time with us was the start of a decline that saw him subsequently manage Hartlepool & MK Dons.

He achieved absolutely nothing with us.

[SBB]

1 hour ago, AshtonGreat said:

You call LJ a lightweight manager, but he almost got us into the Championship play-offs

*failed to get us there. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Lee Johnson signed a 4 year extension in 2019. He should be coming up to the end of that now.

I believe we are still paying the difference in wages to what he gets at Hibs….and that will finish this summer.

52 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Your right Dave..........to dismiss Ian as a moany git is too simplistic.  His heart is in the right place, and he means well, admittidly he gets carried away sometimes, and is prone to be unrealistic on ocassions.  But as you rightly say, he does get to the heart of the matter occasionally, and speaks some sense, and  does make some interesting points and contributions.  To label him as pessimistic and negative is IMHO naive.

I moan about him a lot, but I do also call out when I think he is right / got a good viewpoint.

[Beni71]

Think Pearson has done a cracking job. Cleared out a lot of known issues and uncovered a number of unknown issues.  
Regardless of who is manager/head coach, it will be a very tough ask to break into the top 10 next season given the teams coming down and what’s left in the division.
 

We will need to recruit hungry young/lower league players who have future personal growth and then have the coaching team to make them top end championship standard. Tanner/Atkinson have both taken time to adjust and Wilson remains unproven.

I think NP is the right figure head to drive this forward and has the resilience to withstand fan/media onslaught when things don’t go to plan. I think NP realises that the coaching needs strengthening and hence why we’ve seen Euell arrive this season and King joining the ranks next. 

[Top Robin]

4 hours ago, headhunter said:

There's no denying Nigel had an unholy mess to clear up after the damage done through the profligacy of an off the leash Mark Ashton [and you have to blame SL for that] who was working with two, let's be honest, lightweight managers.

Here we are now with the decks cleared of financial mayhem with cash already in the bank from the sale of Semenyo and the coffers likely to be boosted massively by the sale of Scott putting us in a position of financial strength bettered only by those clubs receiving parachute payments.

On the field this season there has been progress and were it not for the autumn collapse after a stunning opening 8 games followed by a dip in the wake of the highly creditable performance  against Man City I believe we would certainly be in contention for a play off place now.

Nigel has one year left on his contract yet in the summer his actions in the transfer market, working alongside Brian Tinnion, are going to determine the on the field shape of the team for the next three years. For me it would make sense to give him another year now perhaps with a two way exercisable option for a second. Manager at Bristol City is probably one of the safest jobs in football and, while some may disagree, if you are a player contemplating a move here in the summer and you know you are one of the current manager's top picks I think you're more likely to sign  knowing he's here for at least 2 years of your typical 3 year contract.

I'm not a fan of Pearson but that contract extension now seems the right thing to do.

In this latest episode of FBC podcast in addition to reviewing the performance at Watford we debate that in 23/24 anything less than match the efforts of Luton & Millwall who look destined for places in the play offs should be considered failure. Here's a link to listen: https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-2g95c-13e327c

 

 

Absolutely not. We should wait for the first 5 or 6 games of next season to see if his summer changes have improved us.

At the moment we are not good enough and although he may have stabilized the team, we are still massively inconsistent, don't look like play off potential and he needs to up his game. 

We don't want to be stuck with a 'dud' on a long term contract again....just good business sense.

Ps..I hope he does succeed.

 

[Davefevs]

Just for sake of argument, if we signed the following from Lg1/Lg2:

Mads Andersen 25 (Barnsley) 6’4” CB - 100+ games at Champ level inc P/O experience 

Jason Knight 22 (Derby Co.) CM - 100+ games at Champ level, 17 Ireland caps

Jack Currie 21 (Wimbledon) LB - project for Pring understudy

Plus:

Jake O’Brien 22 (Crystal P.) 6’4” CB

In time for pre-season…

…whilst seeing Kalas and Dasilva depart, plus others like Moore, Morton, etc, might we think we’ve made a good start to the window and in some respects strengthened us and added depth?  Andersen and Knight are bonafide Champ players.

Lets net be snobby about Lg1 players, especially when our prospective POTY (Vyner) is “league one at best”, and Sykes, Atkinson and Tanner have all proved to be key parts of the match day squad and regular starters?

 

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

So, Luton, Millwall and one or two others (Coventry you mentioned too) have spent multiple years, building their squads against a plan of financial prudence, excellent recruitment to a team playing style, etc, etc…and the FBC crew want “us” to achieve the same in what is really the first summer and season being back to perceived normality!

To consider it (not top 8 / playoffs) failure is bonkers.

Let’s look at the reality of your combined thoughts…

We don’t even know the shape of the squad yet.

We don’t even know the FFP rules for next season onwards yet, and it’s effect on PPs and relegated clubs.

As it stands, let’s say the top 2 plus Luton go up (they are the top 3).

That leaves Boro, Millwall, Blackburn, none of which are likely to be weaker next season, plus, Southampton, Leicester and Forest all coming down (as it stands).

Plus Coventry and Preston, probably Sunderland will continue their progress.  No idea how Watford, West Brom and Norwich will do.

But that without too much thought makes a competitive top half for us to break into.

If you’d said playoffs is over-delivering against an expected top half, with bottom half below expectations, I’d agree, but to say “failure” is crap.

 

Re recruitment, have the group forgotten Atkinson and Tanner from Lg1 and Lg2 respectively, plus there are some bloody good players in Lg1 with Championship experience, some with play-off experience too, e.g. Barnsley’s players.

Not sure Kompany brought in bargains!

Need to stop using wage bill as the way of decreeing where a team should finish.  Just refer back to your examples of Luton, Millwall and Coventry versus West Brom, Norwich, etc…it proves it’s a futile basis to base League expectations on.  Ask why they are competing, rather than coming up with a baseless “we should be doing better”.

 

Re - “it’s like we are the only club to have suffered from Covid”…I posted many times over the last 12, 18, 24 months which clubs have, or impacted by Covid / FFP…and they are all teams who’ve either been relegated, and / or points deductions and / or in bottom half….the likes of Reading, Cardiff, Birmingham, Bristol City, etc.  it’s far too easy to ignore that it hit us at the point of over-spending…that’s why it’s taking so long to recover.

Wanting success, don’t we all want it.  Sounds like a case of getting carried away or maybe set too high a target to give “you” a stick to beat Nige with.

 

Re injuries, of course we can’t have a small squad, get injuries and it not expose us.  But it’s made out to be a choice to run that way.  It’s a constraint of trying to recover from a terrible financial position.  I’m sure we could’ve kept O’Dowda, Paterson, Bentley, Palmer, etc…and we’d still be bottoming out the financial situation.  Cake and eat it springs to mind.

 

Re Loans - Ian makes the right point re cost of say the Villa loanees.  Can we stop saying Nige doesn’t like them…he’s talked at length about it, it’s clear why.  Ian the voice of reason with “if 3 go out, we probably need 6, loans or perms, British or Foreign, couldn’t care less…”

 

Re overseas signings - we tried to bring in (at least) one last summer, but he got a better offer from a rival.  That player has had a good season, would be our top scorer based on the number he’s scored.  We did bring in one - Bajic.

As has been said before, it is not our budget or our wages that have determined our failure to reach the play-offs, it is the two or three people at the very top making the most important decisions that have failed to be up to the task, and have indeed had "their pants pulled down" by yer Lutons, yer Millwalls, yer 'uddersfied, and yer bloody Prestons.

"But look at Sheffield Wednesday, Derby, Ipswich, Sunderland" cried many on here, betraying their Little-Bristolian/loser/can't-do-mentality by using failing, basket-case clubs to measure our "success" by.

We have enough wedge. We need enough nous. And a little bit of luck, such as a season where two of the three relegated clubs are in a bit of a muddle. Then we can finish above Preston again. One likes to think....

[Simon bristol]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Perhaps watch the goal again because you're basing your opinion on the exact opposite of what actually happened.

O'Leary wasn't "stood on his line watching that happen around him" - Carroll wins the first header, O'Leary comes forward to claim it, doesn't get anywhere near it, ends up in no-mans land, and leaves Joao with a simple looped header into an empty net.

Furthermore, Andy Carroll is 6'3". Lucas Joao is 6'3". Our centre backs that day were Vyner and Pring. So that type of goal was an accident waiting to happen on that particular day. And unfortunately it did.

But only because injuries had deprived us of all of our tall, aerially strong defenders - Kalas, Atkinson, Naismith- and our only other tall players - Klose and Martin - had been correctly moved on in January.   

This won't always be the case though. You say these types of goals keep happening, I would say they're in no way indicative of our direction of travel - for 2 reasons:

1) You'd like to think we won't have so many injuries to key players again

2) But if we do, this summer is the first genuine opportunity Pearson will have to build a squad with the necessary depth that can cope with this number of injuries. He's said repeatedly we're light at centre back - give him the chance to do something about it.  He's said he wants a big, physically strong team - give him the chance to do something about it. The summer will be his first genuine opportunity to do so.   

And all that on top of the obvious improvements this season in number of goals conceded, defensive solidity, team cohesion. 

Cool, unless something drastic happens he will get the chance for several new signings, hopefully! The dates are a little sketchy to me,, but by paying off klose and martin to leave we basically were going to have to rely on kalas staying fit for the rest of season to give us defensive cover… there was clearly a chance something could go wrong with that,, and atkinson got injured, that’s football and thats what happens, every club has them.. thank god vyner stayed fit.

i think hes had the chance to bring in more physical players, but hasnt done it.. we bought in a keeper who never played to replace a keeper we still own who never plays to challenge a keeper who isnt dominant while we can be dominated by anyone with a couple of big strong mobile strikers!

[headhunter]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

If you ever listen to this podcast it would be fairly obvious.

 

Thank you for encouraging more listeners. 1000 people per week listen to me, Ian & others spouting our *hit!

Edited April 17, 2023 by headhunter
Context - too aggressive