Joe Low upsetting Gary Neville

[Tomo]

5 minutes ago, Super said:

Maybe some acting.

Saddlers clearly not happy. Some claiming he is the worst loanee they have ever had. I worry for his future, if he hasn't impressed in League 2. Still only 21 but can't see him staying at the gate.... 

[Loco Rojo]

Cheating in my book. But saying that, it's encouraged in football.  

Kane did it the other week. Same as when one player touches another on the back and presses that invisible button that stops a players legs from working.

It's cheating.  Sad how people on here support it when one of our players does it, but if it happens to us they'd be up in arms about it.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Loco Rojo

[elhombrecito]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Raising the hands - red card. Faking the severity of the impact - red card. That’s the sort of thing Simeone would encourage.

Actually, overreacting to the slightest contact is in fact the sort of thing that Simeone would encourage...

 

 

 

[Port Said Red]

I assume there is another Twitter post from Neville highlighting what a whiny little cheat they have playing for his beloved Manchester Utd? 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Indeed, but what's next for the lad? 

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Indeed, but what's next for the lad? 

It's difficult to say without having more information than just what we see on the pitch. I thought it looked bad that he was arguing with his Manager after being subbed in the last game, yes his Manager was subsequently sacked which might suggest there was some justification, but there's a time and place to air your views. It would make you wonder about his personality, his attitude or both.

He's a very big lad, and there have been examples in the past of players getting to his level purely on physicality and then finding that it's not enough for the next step, maybe Joe is one of those?

[Fuber]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Saddlers clearly not happy. Some claiming he is the worst loanee they have ever had. I worry for his future, if he hasn't impressed in League 2. Still only 21 but can't see him staying at the gate.... 

Yep. Getting slaughtered.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

He's a very big lad, and there have been examples in the past of players getting to his level purely on physicality and then finding that it's not enough for the next step, maybe Joe is one of those?

That is the big unknown for me in terms of his ability / potential…from the games I saw him play.

At u21 level he was never tested:

• aerially - it’s rare to get a young target man type or physical opponent, so inevitably he wins everything in the air.  Although slightly different, Louis Britton, all arms and elbows, showed a number of u21/23 CBs  what a young CB might expect when entering 1st team football when you might have to play against someone like John Akinde (Colchester) or Andy Cook (Bradford).  Can be an eye-opener when you step up to first team and suddenly getting a 6-foot plus bruiser running at you from side-on for headers.  So I don’t know if he has that…yet.
• in-behind - City being one of the better u21 sides, tend not to get get dominated, so I’ve not really seen him be tested by short, sharp movement in behind from an opponent dominating possession.  So I don’t know if he has that either…yet.

What I have seen is someone pretty comfy on the ball who has dominated his smaller opponent.  U21s v Peterborough u21s he was really classy.

[Midlands Robin]

I posted in the loan watch thread a while ago when I went to watch Walsall v Gillingham, that I wasn't thst impressed with him. 

He's a big lad and he certainly doesn't mind getting stuck in but I mostly saw a tackle and hoof type of defender. He almost gave the ball away in front of his own, empty net after a poor touch and then a mix up with his own keeper. 

I was surprised to read in the comments above that the Saddlers fans were having a pop at him now because he was getting some positive comments earlier in the season both from fans and the local press. 

A high point for him was the Leicester FA Cup game where he did play well. 

Walsall have only won 1 of their last 15 odd games (that Gillingham fixture) so clearly things have gone wrong there. 

As for Low going down like he's been shot by the row Z sniper,it's definitely not a good look. Not a fan of thst sort of thing regardless of who he's playing for. 

[DaveF]

Embarrassing from Low, I wonder if one of the coaching staff might have a word?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

He’s totally in the wrong but let’s see if Carlton Morris gets one for his blatant dive to win a penalty last night, eh?

No chance.

At what point do we as fans say enough is enough, the blatant time wasting, diving to win penalties, surrounding the ref to try and get players booked or sent off, is there a team, any team, that doesn’t employ the so called dark arts?
 

Nearly all of us complain about refs not getting decisions right, but is it any wonder in today’s game?
 

Probably the most bizarre thing I’ve ever heard is the ‘he felt contact so is within his rights to go down’ said by a commentator (former player), it’s bollux, utter bollux.

[P'head Red]

As if none of Neville's old team mates did exactly the same thing

[Numero Uno]

10 hours ago, Coxy27 said:

In a way, I guess.

Think he was preparing to make the most of contact that he was anticipating, and it never came and he was off balance.

I've seen worse dives, this one to me was worse on the part of the official than the player.

If he was in a nightclub and a lad grabbed him like that he would have stayed on his feet and chinned him, simple as that. He went down like a sack of shit and got a fellow pro sent off.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Numero Uno

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Countryfile said:

At what point do we as fans say enough is enough, the blatant time wasting, diving to win penalties, surrounding the ref to try and get players booked or sent off, is there a team, any team, that doesn’t employ the so called dark arts?
 

Nearly all of us complain about refs not getting decisions right, but is it any wonder in today’s game?
 

Probably the most bizarre thing I’ve ever heard is the ‘he felt contact so is within his rights to go down’ said by a commentator (former player), it’s bollux, utter bollux.

Agree with what you say, but I'm of the opinion it's a two way street. As has been raised numerous times in other threads about referees; they have the power to deal with such behaviour under the existing laws of the game and have the ability for retrospective punishment - it just doesn't get used enough and so the cycle continues.

It's funny you mention commentators coz they do my absolute nut. They could so easily just call it out and literally mock players on live tv for falling over/grabbing their faces etc, but they never do.

On Low - absolutely embarrassing 

[sglosbcfc]

12 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That is the big unknown for me in terms of his ability / potential…from the games I saw him play.

At u21 level he was never tested:

• aerially - it’s rare to get a young target man type or physical opponent, so inevitably he wins everything in the air.  Although slightly different, Louis Britton, all arms and elbows, showed a number of u21/23 CBs  what a young CB might expect when entering 1st team football when you might have to play against someone like John Akinde (Colchester) or Andy Cook (Bradford).  Can be an eye-opener when you step up to first team and suddenly getting a 6-foot plus bruiser running at you from side-on for headers.  So I don’t know if he has that…yet.
• in-behind - City being one of the better u21 sides, tend not to get get dominated, so I’ve not really seen him be tested by short, sharp movement in behind from an opponent dominating possession.  So I don’t know if he has that either…yet.

What I have seen is someone pretty comfy on the ball who has dominated his smaller opponent.  U21s v Peterborough u21s he was really classy.

I really hope I am wrong, but from what I saw when he played against Lincoln and then what the Walsall fans seem to be saying, it looks like a step down to the National League is on the cards.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, sglosbcfc said:

I really hope I am wrong, but from what I saw when he played against Lincoln and then what the Walsall fans seem to be saying, it looks like a step down to the National League is on the cards.

It’s a tough one to know.  He might come back pre-season, have “grown into his frame” and look a completely different player.  Let’s hope so.  Otherwise he’s looking at another loan.

[MarcusX]

On 25/04/2023 at 08:09, TheReds said:

I said regarding retrospective banning for diving when the likes of Drogba, Ronaldo used to do it. Ban them for 3 games, repeat offender double it, and it would soon have stopped back then, or at least it wouldn't be as bad as it is now as they all do it knowing nothing will happen whatsoever.

The same as "it was dealt with at the time so we now cannot change the decision", assuming this is still the case when a blatant red wasn't given and the ref only deemed it to be a yellow, yet when the ref misses it completely they do rightfully give out a ban retrospectively (assuming I have got that rule correct).

I disagree. Sometimes it;s blatent, but the large majority of the time "diving" is subjective. You can never truly know if a small amount of contact was enough to trip someone running a full sprint. There also doesn't have to be contact for a foul to be made, if you impede someone without touching them (eg they have to hurdle your tackle) it can still be a foul.

This situation here is different, but it's also not a dive it's just outright cheating.

[Port Said Red]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I disagree. Sometimes it;s blatent, but the large majority of the time "diving" is subjective. You can never truly know if a small amount of contact was enough to trip someone running a full sprint. There also doesn't have to be contact for a foul to be made, if you impede someone without touching them (eg they have to hurdle your tackle) it can still be a foul.

This situation here is different, but it's also not a dive it's just outright cheating.

Good example was the Conway penalty shout on Saturday. A couple of people came back to their places after half time and said they didn't think it was a penalty based on the replays on the screens downstairs "just a hand on the shoulder". I watched it on the highlights later and thought it was a proper push and a penalty. The slow motion looked less a penalty, but in real time....

Edited April 26, 2023 by Port Said Red

[TheReds]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

I disagree. Sometimes it;s blatent, but the large majority of the time "diving" is subjective. You can never truly know if a small amount of contact was enough to trip someone running a full sprint. There also doesn't have to be contact for a foul to be made, if you impede someone without touching them (eg they have to hurdle your tackle) it can still be a foul.

This situation here is different, but it's also not a dive it's just outright cheating.

Agree to a point, but then simply ban the blatant ones, some of the dives are ridiculous and I think a lot of it could have been stamped out years ago with the threat of a retrospective ban - do you think the likes of Fergie would accept Ronaldo getting multiple bans, he would get it stopped himself. I have no issue if some think one is 50:50 so to speak or simply not 100% sure, VAR still cannot get things right, so you have to give the benefit of doubt to the player I guess in certain instances.  

40 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Good example was the Conway penalty shout on Saturday. A couple of people came back to their places after half time and said they didn't think it was a penalty based on the replays on the screens downstairs "just a hand on the shoulder". I watched it on the highlights later and thought it was a proper push and a penalty. The slow motion looked less a penalty, but in real time....

But in this instance he was touched and to go down has been encouraged for years now, I am not advocating a ban for that as different angles will show he was touched (even if he went down easy), I am basically talking about blatant diving and cheating, when nothing happens we have players and managers who couldn't care if players cheat as part of the game (until it goes against them).

[Silvio Dante]

Postscript:

 

[Port Said Red]

13 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Postscript:

 

I thought raising your hands to an opponent was a red card anyway, whether you were grabbing their shirt or not?

[spudski]

Regardless of whether it was a sending off or not...the reaction by Joe is ridiculous. 

But it goes on all the time. 

It's now seen as part of the 'game'. 

Fans hate it...some managers say they do. 

However imo, it's something that is tolerated to gain an advantage. 

It's very much a British thing to play fair. Where as in a lot of cultures ' cheating' is seen as being clever, and instead of repulsed...it's applauded. Gaining an advantage in any way, is part of their life. 

I remember having a discussions with friends in France and Italy about the British culture of queuing in an orderly fashion, and first come, first served. They just don't comprehend it. It's alien to them. If someone gets ahead of them, they may not like it, but they 'admire' the person for being more clever than them. The next time they up their game...and so it goes on...in pretty much all parts of their lives. 

Football now reflects that attitude. Cheating the ref to gain an advantage is seen as clever. 

I'd love to know the conversations between team mates after games when actions such as Joe's happen. Do they congratulate one another, or tell them they look like a right pussy and to man the **** up? 

I know the answer...it's the former. 

It is a ridiculous scenario, players get irate when it happens to them, and call the perpetrator a ' cheating bastard ' , but they'll go and do it the following game. 

 

[arrytheb]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

I thought raising your hands to an opponent was a red card anyway, whether you were grabbing their shirt or not?

Below the shoulders 'should' be a yellow, above 'should' be a red. 

 

Obviously if you punch someone below the shoulders it's likely to be classed as violent conduct and a red