England Squad

[LondonBristolian]

I think the major argument for his inclusion in the U-21s for me is that I don't reckon he gets in the team ahead of Bellingham and Rice and so might not be included much. Malta and North Macedonia may not be the two greatest teams in the world but these are competitive international fixtures early in a qualifying team and so you'd hope we'd pick our best of teams. White-Gibbs is certainly a prospect but - almost irrespective of what he wants - it has to be better for his development to play a key role in a tournament level competition than cameo off the pitch in a couple of games at a point in the season when everyone's going to be a bit knackered and jaded going into the training sessions. Hopefully he can have a great swansong for the U-21s during the Euros and come into contention for the senior squad from the beginning of next season. 

[Jimbo123]

41 minutes ago, The Coach said:

But he has? Also has one of the best centre backs in the world covering his arse in John Stones.

What message does this send out to other hopefuls who are having a good season? Sorry lads, Maguire will still be getting picked even though he’s shite and doesn’t even play for United.

When? What games has Maguire let England down in?

What message would it send out to the squad if Southgate was to make 10 changes to the squad every 3 months and just picked it on that stretch of games, like some people seem to suggest should be happening?

It's ridiculous, we're having this period where we're so strong internationally because of continuity of team selection and players continuing to perform at a high level in an England shirt.

[grifty]

25 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It might surprise you to know that I didn't realise Pope was having surgery although my next response one or two replies further down would have made that fairly clear. But to answer your question, Nah, if I knew Pope was having surgery on his finger I wouldn't put him in. If you think about it for a second, the pain he might be in and the recovery time required just wouldn't allow him to train and play properly. It would be very dangerous to train and play whilst having surgery in my opinion and hopefully that alleviates any worries you might have had. However, I'd definitely pick Gibbs White over Maddison for the full squad on both current form and where his head is likely to be at all day long right now, 100%, not even a discussion for me.

I do feel better now

I agree about Gallagher but I think Maddison is the sort of player who plays better with better players around him.

Ive watched quite a few Leicester games this season and his general ball skills (oo err) is as good as anyone but playing in an under performing (relegation threatened) team means his output hasn’t been as high as it should be.

If MGW is captain of the under 21s, leave him there to play that rather than be on the bench for these two games. That may happen to Maddison anyway!

[LoyalRed]

No re-call for Ben White then 

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, Jimbo123 said:

When? What games has Maguire let England down in?

What message would it send out to the squad if Southgate was to make 10 changes to the squad every 3 months and just picked it on that stretch of games, like some people seem to suggest should be happening?

It's ridiculous, we're having this period where we're so strong internationally because of continuity of team selection and players continuing to perform at a high level in an England shirt.

I think that's a bit of a straw man argument. That's not what most people who are questioning Maguire's selection are saying. The reality is that he's barely featured at club level this season and hasn't had a good spell at club level for 2 or 3 years. You're absolutely right that he hasn't let England down at international level and that has to be a serious consideration but there is a valid question about how long someone who is not playing or not playing well for a sustained period of time at club level should remain in contention. Ultimately Dele Alli never let England down either but was ultimately dropped for poor club form and is now nowhere near consideration. 

I really hope Maguire moves over the summer to somewhere where he can play regularly and play well and that solves the problem. But, if he stays at Utd and stays 5th choice, would we all be comfortable with someone frozen out of their first team at club level for two years being a first choice defender at a major tournament. And what options will we have unless we test some? 

[Numero Uno]

9 minutes ago, Jimbo123 said:

When? What games has Maguire let England down in?

What message would it send out to the squad if Southgate was to make 10 changes to the squad every 3 months and just picked it on that stretch of games, like some people seem to suggest should be happening?

It's ridiculous, we're having this period where we're so strong internationally because of continuity of team selection and players continuing to perform at a high level in an England shirt.

No, that isn't what is being suggested. That's a massive exaggeration to say the least. The bulk of the squad picks itself simply because they are the best players and/or they have not let England down in the past (think Pickford and Maguire). However there are always spots up for grabs in every squad and there are two players who are very lucky to be there in my view, Gallagher and Maddison, who are fringe players anyway when everyone is fit. That is the discussion some of us are having rather than suggesting the WHOLE SQUAD gets picked on 12 weekly form charts...........

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

No re-call for Ben White then 

Would be interesting to know what his spat with Phil Foden was about...................

[Red Skin]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Would be interesting to know what his spat with Phil Foden was about...................

Wasn't it with one of the coaches?  

[chinapig]

28 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Wasn't it with one of the coaches?  

It was alleged that he refused to study the videos he was given as part of the squad's match preparation so he was sent home.

[Numero Uno]

55 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Wasn't it with one of the coaches?  

He had a spat with Foden after Man City gubbed Arsenal the other week........

[redkev]

3 hours ago, Jimbo123 said:

When has Maguire ever performed poorly for England?

Why would he not be in?

It is a wired one , awful for Man U when he does play , but put him in an England shirt and he’s a different player , do think in these games though time to experiment, I would play Dunk alongside stones myself

[redkev]

2 hours ago, LoyalRed said:

No re-call for Ben White then 

Didn’t realise there was some friction in the camp between him and ? ( I don’t know ) thought he came home for so called family problems 

[LoyalRed]

18 minutes ago, redkev said:

Didn’t realise there was some friction in the camp between him and ? ( I don’t know ) thought he came home for so called family problems 

Do you buy that ? He’s not been picked.  

[E.G.Red]

5 hours ago, Super said:

I guess it came down to Wilson or Watkins must of been close though. Agree on Eze and Pope.

Don't know what Ollie Watkins has done , not to get in the team. Thought it would have been the ideal suite of games. Gareth is always saying he picks players on form but obviously not in Watkins case.

[redkev]

30 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

Do you buy that ? He’s not been picked.  

Don’t know just seemed all a bit strange at the time . Then when Man City beat Arsenal white & foden kicked off with each other at the end of the game , 

[The Bard]

3 hours ago, LoyalRed said:

No re-call for Ben White then 

No.  He's not good enough when you compare him to the other right backs 

[The Bard]

2 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Don't know what Ollie Watkins has done , not to get in the team. Thought it would have been the ideal suite of games. Gareth is always saying he picks players on form but obviously not in Watkins case.

He hasn't scored for 6 games  and Wilson has scored 7 in the last 6.

More utter rubbish aimed at Southgate.  

6 hours ago, Ian M said:

Still think it’s harsh that Tomori seemingly can’t get a look in.

Didn't watch him play for Milan in Europe then?  

[Super]

36 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

Don't know what Ollie Watkins has done , not to get in the team. Thought it would have been the ideal suite of games. Gareth is always saying he picks players on form but obviously not in Watkins case.

Wilson isn't in bad form either.

[E.G.Red]

36 minutes ago, The Bard said:

He hasn't scored for 6 games  and Wilson has scored 7 in the last 6.

More utter rubbish aimed at Southgate.  

Didn't watch him play for Milan in Europe then?  

I'm not giving a pop at Southgate  just saying I think he could have given others such as,Watkins a chance rather than playing the tried and tested. We know what the vast majority of the team can do so let's see some of the others. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by E.G.Red

[OutstandingMixer]

19 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

It's this kind of nonsense that Southgate has put an end to. Caps given to "see" someone. David Nugent, Michael Ricketts, Joey Barton and Jimmy Bullard all got call ups in previous years and it was a joke.

Consistent selections that build a cohesive team and unit. That has been our strength and one of the key reasons we have experienced our best results in tournaments for generations under him. 

[Lrrr]

47 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

It's this kind of nonsense that Southgate has put an end to. Caps given to "see" someone. David Nugent, Michael Ricketts, Joey Barton and Jimmy Bullard all got call ups in previous years and it was a joke.

Consistent selections that build a cohesive team and unit. That has been our strength and one of the key reasons we have experienced our best results in tournaments for generations under him. 

Consistency is one thing however for me you still need to earn your place, how does Kalvin Phillips earn a place based off 519 minutes for Man City in all competitions?

[Ian M]

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

He hasn't scored for 6 games  and Wilson has scored 7 in the last 6.

More utter rubbish aimed at Southgate.  

Didn't watch him play for Milan in Europe then?  

Fair play to the other 10 Milan players then, carrying Tomori to last year’s Scudetto and this year’s CL semi final whilst none of his rivals for a place in the squad have ever made a mistake or had a bad game. I am now fully converted to him never being selected for an England squad and retract my earlier comment.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Consistency is one thing however for me you still need to earn your place, how does Kalvin Phillips earn a place based off 519 minutes for Man City in all competitions?

I think he’s tried to create a “club squad” at international level, so he knows who is good enough imho, and in the main promotes from u21s.

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Because he's been excellent for England for several years? 

Anyway, the midfielders being selected now are merely keeping the seat warm for Alex when he breaks into the team. Him, Bellingham and Rice are bringing football home. 

'Excellent' ..... Really? Wouldn't agree there

 

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think he’s tried to create a “club squad” at international level, so he knows who is good enough imho, and in the main promotes from u21s.

I think you've got multiple players in that squad already who can do the role that Phillips is there for when he actually gets on the pitch so personally see little point in him being there when he's not justifying his spot at club level.

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Super said:

Oliver Skipp. 
Under 21’s!! 
Jeez - I didn’t realise he still qualified. He looks like he’s about 35! 

[RUSSEL85]

19 minutes ago, Harry said:

Oliver Skipp. 
Under 21’s!! 
Jeez - I didn’t realise he still qualified. He looks like he’s about 35! 

Playing for Spurs at present can’t blame the lad  

[Jimbo123]

16 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I think that's a bit of a straw man argument. That's not what most people who are questioning Maguire's selection are saying. The reality is that he's barely featured at club level this season and hasn't had a good spell at club level for 2 or 3 years. You're absolutely right that he hasn't let England down at international level and that has to be a serious consideration but there is a valid question about how long someone who is not playing or not playing well for a sustained period of time at club level should remain in contention. Ultimately Dele Alli never let England down either but was ultimately dropped for poor club form and is now nowhere near consideration. 

I really hope Maguire moves over the summer to somewhere where he can play regularly and play well and that solves the problem. But, if he stays at Utd and stays 5th choice, would we all be comfortable with someone frozen out of their first team at club level for two years being a first choice defender at a major tournament. And what options will we have unless we test some? 

Alli's a completely different situation as we have a number of international class players in that position, Maguire's one is different as it's quite comfortably our weakest position.

I think Colwill will come through and make the position his own to be honest, but as of now he has 11 PL starts in his career so it's not realistic to be trying to get him ready for a European Championships that we're favourites to win in 12 months time.

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think he’s tried to create a “club squad” at international level, so he knows who is good enough imho, and in the main promotes from u21s.

 

10 hours ago, Lrrr said:

'Excellent' ..... Really? Wouldn't agree there

 

I think you've got multiple players in that squad already who can do the role that Phillips is there for when he actually gets on the pitch so personally see little point in him being there when he's not justifying his spot at club level.

Think what Dave's said is accurate, that and the fact we don't have any cover for Rice otherwise. There aren't any other defensive midfielders in the squad.

[Numero Uno]

14 hours ago, Harry said:

Oliver Skipp. 
Under 21’s!! 
Jeez - I didn’t realise he still qualified. He looks like he’s about 35! 

It's no wonder the lad has aged though!! Young lad stuck in Tottenham's midfield and left to get on with it pretty much by himself by "Senior Pro's" who are then also happy to step aside when the kid to takes most of the flak from fans.

[LondonBristolian]

4 hours ago, Jimbo123 said:

Alli's a completely different situation as we have a number of international class players in that position, Maguire's one is different as it's quite comfortably our weakest position.

I think Colwill will come through and make the position his own to be honest, but as of now he has 11 PL starts in his career so it's not realistic to be trying to get him ready for a European Championships that we're favourites to win in 12 months time.

 

But I think that's the exact problem. We're potentially going to be at a point where we go to the European Championships with a central defender who has not played for two years and we've not developed or tested the alternatives. Favourites or not, that's a massively risky position. 

[Jimbo123]

7 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

But I think that's the exact problem. We're potentially going to be at a point where we go to the European Championships with a central defender who has not played for two years and we've not developed or tested the alternatives. Favourites or not, that's a massively risky position. 

He'll be moving this summer I imagine anyway, but regardless in that period he's played for England in every game that's mattered and barely put a foot wrong.

Southgate will give minutes to players like Mings in the lesser games anyway, and even when he had to put him into the first Euros games a couple of years ago he was absolutely fine in our secure system.