Top 3 up?

[Sleepy1968]

36 minutes ago, archie andrews said:

Hmmm i thought 5th in league below played 3rd from bottom in league above then played winner of 3rd v 4th......

Yep. We played sheff utd - them 2nd tier - in the semis in the year we lost to Walsall in the replayed playoff final when it was home/away. 

Second leg v sheff utd was away. I thought it ended 1-1 with carl shutt scoring.I was there but I don't know whether there was extra time.

 

[glynriley]

1 minute ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Yep. We played sheff utd - them 2nd tier - in the semis in the year we lost to Walsall in the replayed playoff final when it was home/away. 

Second leg v sheff utd was away. I thought it ended 1-1 with carl shutt scoring.I was there but I don't know whether there was extra time.

 

No extra time. We won 1-0 at home then drew 1-1 up there. Crazy day/night. 

[robin_unreliant]

1 hour ago, Glen hump said:

The team finishing 3rd should go straight to the final; would make it a little fairer.

I like this idea. Let teams 4th-7th play eachother and whoever wins gets a chance against third. That way you get an advantage for finishing third and an extra play off game overall.

[Lanterne Rouge]

37 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Yep. We played sheff utd - them 2nd tier - in the semis in the year we lost to Walsall in the replayed playoff final when it was home/away. 

Second leg v sheff utd was away. I thought it ended 1-1 with carl shutt scoring.I was there but I don't know whether there was extra time.

 

I believe that tie was a main driver for them stopping the club above being involved due to the trouble that followed - the thinking being that, if you miss out on promotion, you`re just disappointed but if it means you go down it all kicks off. I think there was major trouble in Sheffield that night.

[Silvio Dante]

41 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I like this idea. Let teams 4th-7th play eachother and whoever wins gets a chance against third. That way you get an advantage for finishing third and an extra play off game overall.

The issue here, as good intended as it is, is that the third place team won’t have a game for probably three weeks and lose significant sharpness, whereas the opponent will be “played in”. The conference system works in the conference because there is less policing arrangement etc needed to cover things so it happens in a compressed time frame.

[Red Shadow]

Not as bad as rugby though. Finish top after a whole season but you still aren't champions.  Now that is crap.

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, glynriley said:

No extra time. We won 1-0 at home then drew 1-1 up there. Crazy day/night. 

Thanks. (Don't remember anything about the first leg.) I do remember the massive pillers at bramell Lane  and high fence and crowded away terrace meant I had a less than stellar view.  Per for the course for the 80s though. 

I was on so I don't remember seeing the trouble after the game, but yep changing the format to exclude a team from the league above was clearly very sensible.

Edited May 26, 2023 by Sleepy1968

[GrahamC]

3 hours ago, glynriley said:

Thought it was Carl Shutt who scored up there ? Walshy in the home game. 

It was, header in front of us from an ex Wednesday player, put us 1-0 up on the night, 2-0 on aggregate.

They pulled a goal back second half & it was like the bloody Alamo.

[steviestevieneville]

5 hours ago, gl2 said:

At 70 plus yes I remember.......so lets say we finish next season in 3rd and end up at Wembers against a 6th place team but were 10points ahead of them at the end of the season, the 6th place team get a dodgey pen and we lose the game= madness and not many happy bunnies on here.

Why not have play offs at top and bottom of the leagues then?

Point being we all play each other twice, top 3 up bottom 3 down, the best 3 over the season should go up not the top 2... plus 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th....... why stop at 6th then, lets all play each other again in the new super improved play offs involving all the teams.

Everyone knows how it works before the season starts & have done for I think 37 years now. The play offs are going nowhere & rightly so . Even though we can’t win one , the play offs are brilliant . If you’re a neutral anyway. 

[City Rocker]

6 hours ago, gl2 said:

The wife just watched Coventry fans getting all excited on local news about their big day tomorrow; "What final is this" ...play off final I said then had to try and explain why a team can finish 10 points behind Luton 3rd place and yet have a chance of beating them to the top division.

Madness she said why cant the top 3 go up just as the bottom 3 go down?

Well maybe something to do with someone making money, got to agree the season should be the season imo, top 3 should go up and bottom 3 down...the end.

The season shouldnt come down to an overpriced one off game where a bit of luck could swing it one way or another...........what next?..... top team goes up and the next 8 play off against each other......madness but watch this space over the coming years.

3up, 3 down simple

 

My old mate Martin, the Wolves fan, would agree with you. Well in 1987 he would have done, anyway.

Martin was f king incandescent in 1987, the first year the playoffs were introduced. Absolutely spitting feathers, he was. Wolves finished fourth in Division 4 (I know!), but ended up losing the playoff final to Aldershot (ALDERSHOT FFS!!) who had finished way behind them in sixth place. How is that fair?! F'kin Aldershot mind!! 

Anyway, the rest of us saw it as a great innovation, an obvious improvement to the league format, that would lead to a huge uptake in fan engagement throughout the pyramid and help to restore the waining popularity of the game. 

I haven't seen Martin for years now, but I really hope he's in great health, loving his football team's (relative) success, and enjoying the brilliant spectacle of the playoffs. 

[pillred]

6 hours ago, gl2 said:

At 70 plus yes I remember.......so lets say we finish next season in 3rd and end up at Wembers against a 6th place team but were 10points ahead of them at the end of the season, the 6th place team get a dodgey pen and we lose the game= madness and not many happy bunnies on here.

Why not have play offs at top and bottom of the leagues then?

Point being we all play each other twice, top 3 up bottom 3 down, the best 3 over the season should go up not the top 2... plus 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th....... why stop at 6th then, lets all play each other again in the new super improved play offs involving all the teams.

Wembers, is that anyway near Webley?

[Rocking Red Cyril]

7 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

OP Its a freaking entertainment business.

The current format of promotion together with 3 points for a win were the best innovations that happened to English football.

The format is dynamic and exciting, and fair, and fortunately for most of the rest of us we like it that way.

Maybe it's time for 4 points for win and minus 1 point for a lose.

[PHILINFRANCE]

4 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I believe that tie was a main driver for them stopping the club above being involved due to the trouble that followed - the thinking being that, if you miss out on promotion, you`re just disappointed but if it means you go down it all kicks off. I think there was major trouble in Sheffield that night.

There was trouble in Sheffield that night, lots of it, but I’m pretty sure the final straw was a match involving Millwall, surprise. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

6 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

There was trouble in Sheffield that night, lots of it, but I’m pretty sure the final straw was a match involving Millwall, surprise. 

I think you`re right - Millwall v Derby rings a bell. It wasn`t long after they`d moved to the New Den IIRC.

[Major Isewater]

9 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Maybe it's time for 4 points for win and minus 1 point for a lose.

I dallied with the idea of issuing points on a half basis. 2 points for winning a half , 1 for a draw. 
Win the first half and draw the second would give a team 3 points. 
Win both halves get 4 points. 
It could keep the game lively and a team well beaten in the first half could really go at it and win the second .

Then I thought bollocks to it , why turn our game into an Americanised circus. 

[The Journalist]

There’s lots about football I’d like to change but the play-offs isn’t one of them. Some of my favourite football memories are in play-off matches - and that’s even though I’ve never seen us get promoted through them.

It’s probably also our only realistic route to the Premier League - as it is to any team without parachute payments.

[Genghis Khan's pants]

Like the play offs but always felt that 3rd (or 4th in League 2) should automatically get to the final and the other positions below then play off to face them by e.g. Championship- 5th playing 6th and the winner playing 4th.

 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

I like the playoffs it can be cruel as we know to well, but it gives a broader selection of teams a chance to get out of the league.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

I like the playoffs it can be cruel as we know to well, but it gives a broader selection of teams a chance to get out of the league.

If thats the case then why is it not the same for the bottom 6 teams......2 down other 4 play offs to stay up.........gives them a chance to stay up.

A team...Luton that finishes 10pts above another team, Coventry, over the season should go up and not have to play someone else again........the hard earned points over the season are worthless in that case

[OneCity]

12 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

There was trouble in Sheffield that night, lots of it, but I’m pretty sure the final straw was a match involving Millwall, surprise. 

If I recall correctly, Wednesday fans were out in force too that night (probably making things worse). After the match, they were lined up on the pavements applauding the City coaches as they made their way out of Sheffield. 

[spudski]

I'd like to see 4 up and 4 down. 

Top 3 automatically go up. 

Bottom 3 automatically come down. 

Then a one off game between 4th from bottom against 4th from top. Winner either stays up or gets promoted. 

[Super]

2 hours ago, Genghis Khan's pants said:

Like the play offs but always felt that 3rd (or 4th in League 2) should automatically get to the final and the other positions below then play off to face them by e.g. Championship- 5th playing 6th and the winner playing 4th.

 

I do think there should be an advantage. Maybe 3rd v 6th and 4th v 5th one off game at the higher placed teams ground.

[Superjack]

19 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I believe that tie was a main driver for them stopping the club above being involved due to the trouble that followed - the thinking being that, if you miss out on promotion, you`re just disappointed but if it means you go down it all kicks off. I think there was major trouble in Sheffield that night.

Yes, but that was in the Eighties. You would hope there wouldn't be quite the same issue nowadays. 

I always liked the idea of a team having to 'defend' their higher division status. In fact, I think 3rd and 4th (4th and 5th in L2) vs the first two 'safe' teams in the higher division would be awesome.

[Superjack]

35 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Yes, but that was in the Eighties. You would hope there wouldn't be quite the same issue nowadays. 

I always liked the idea of a team having to 'defend' their higher division status. In fact, I think 3rd and 4th (4th and 5th in L2) vs the first two 'safe' teams in the higher division would be awesome.

In fact, maybe you could have the 4 teams above relegation and the 4 teams below promotion in the division below playing semi finals, then have 2 play-off finals of higher v lower division. Losers in the higher division v winners in the lower.

Loads more teams with something to play for.

This is how much I get bored in the close season.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Superjack

[Spike]

I think it's fairer but at the same time my argument is if you can finish 10 points above a team then you should be able to beat them when it matters. Yes I know football can be extremely unpredictable but if you're that much better than a team then winning that game shouldn't be too much to ask. Plus it's far more entertaining to watch. 

[Erithacus]

Play-offs are an old format brought in one season to balance out the restructuring of the leagues, with unequal movements to accommodate a change in the numbers. It has stuck ever since.

Whilst I accept that the present EFL system is a popular one in terms of keeping a season 'alive' for longer and that the money aspect is appealing (to the clubs), I still say that we spend a whole nine/ten months of league format (our Bread and Butter) to produce a final table that is easy to understand. To then eventually have a team, say, finish in sixth achieve promotion over the third, fourth and fifth placed teams (who will have a better points total) is illogical and unethical, and undermines the league format's raison d'être.

I am in favour of a system mentioned above where, say, the bottom two or three of Div 1 go down, the top two or three of Div 2 are promoted but the next bottom of Div 1 plays the next top of Div 2 - a far more equitable state of play I feel. Of course it won't appeal to the accountants or chancers.

[jj77]

Have I stepped back into 1986?

[SecretSam]

On 26/05/2023 at 15:21, gl2 said:

The wife just watched Coventry fans getting all excited on local news about their big day tomorrow; "What final is this" ...play off final I said then had to try and explain why a team can finish 10 points behind Luton 3rd place and yet have a chance of beating them to the top division.

Madness she said why cant the top 3 go up just as the bottom 3 go down?

Well maybe something to do with someone making money, got to agree the season should be the season imo, top 3 should go up and bottom 3 down...the end.

The season shouldnt come down to an overpriced one off game where a bit of luck could swing it one way or another...........what next?..... top team goes up and the next 8 play off against each other......madness but watch this space over the coming years.

3up, 3 down simple

 

Meanwhile, in the modern world...the pray-offs have existed since the '80s, many leagues now use some sort of play off system, they keep interest going late in the season. 

If we weren't so useless at them, I'd even quite like them!

Edit: why don't we have the 3 up + 4 pray-offs that the L2 lot have?

Edited May 30, 2023 by SecretSam
Edit: edit

[SecretSam]

On 26/05/2023 at 16:49, joe jordans teeth said:

Your missus got any more pearls of wisdom 

"Mobile phones are just a fad"

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 hours ago, SecretSam said:

"Mobile phones are just a fad"

And that internet guff will never catch on.....................