Death of the Target Man

[Davefevs]

OTIB yearns for one, if only as a Plan B.

An interesting read for those of you interested in a more statistical evaluation (with words) of the role.

If that isn’t your thing, read it before Milan Djuric is in the piece!

[italian dave]

Thanks Dave. Interesting. And, genuinely, my first thought, before I read your note or opened the link, was that the last time we had a real target man it was Milan Djuric! 

His goal at Sunderland is still one of my top memories of the past decade or so, and a real number 9s goal in the mould of John Galley! 

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

OTIB yearns for one, if only as a Plan B.

An interesting read for those of you interested in a more statistical evaluation (with words) of the role.

If that isn’t your thing, read it before Milan Djuric is in the piece!

Not a method that has ever appealed to me. It’s ‘hoof ball’ that I’ve seen waaay too much at AG over the decades. From memory there have been managers that have employed that approach and approximately only around 25% of hoof ball has been effective. The remaining 75% led to City being under pressure straight away.

Personally I bloody hate it!

[Silvio Dante]

And that was “Death of The Target Man” by Pep the Unstoppable TIkataka Machine.

Next, here’s the latest from the Wedding Present

Edited June 22, 2023 by Silvio Dante

[BCFCAL]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

Thanks Dave. Interesting. And, genuinely, my first thought, before I read your note or opened the link, was that the last time we had a real target man it was Milan Djuric! 

His goal at Sunderland is still one of my top memories of the past decade or so, and a real number 9s goal in the mould of John Galley! 

Had really high hopes for Djuric, unfortunately wasn't to be!

[chinapig]

Not entirely gone I think but thankfully the days of every move starting with the keeper hoofing it aimlessly up field. Watch 1970s games on YouTube to remind yourself!

What we do have now is keepers who can play accurate long passes though not necessarily to a target man. But they can mix it up with a short passing game.

That's why some big Premier League clubs want Onana, one of the best.

[Red Skin]

49 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

And that was “Death of The Target Man” by Pep the Unstoppable TIkataka Machine.

Next, here’s the latest from the Wedding Present

'Death of a Disco Dancer' surely? 

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Not a method that has ever appealed to me. It’s ‘hoof ball’ that I’ve seen waaay too much at AG over the decades. From memory there have been managers that have employed that approach and approximately only around 25% of hoof ball has been effective. The remaining 75% led to City being under pressure straight away.

Personally I bloody hate it!

I remember Alan Hansen talking about when he joined Liverpool.

After signing, he was stood next to Paisley watching a full practice match. After a while he said to Paisley " I didn't realise that Liverpool was a long ball team"

Paisley replied " we don't play the long ball - we play the right ball!"

 

[BCFCAL]

5 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Not entirely gone I think but thankfully the days of every move starting with the keeper hoofing it aimlessly up field. Watch 1970s games on YouTube to remind yourself!

What we do have now is keepers who can play accurate long passes though not necessarily to a target man. But they can mix it up with a short passing game.

That's why some big Premier League clubs want Onana, one of the best.

Think it takes away from football a bit though, albeit only really at the top level, not the lack of a target man, but how football has evolved as in playing from the back, you see less flair, less wonder strikes etc. as it's all about passing it into the box and not taking any chances. Each to their own, but I prefer the odd mistake, a great strike as opposed to 50 passes and a tap in and players taking on their man rather than 20 passes to move forward. Grealish is a good example, was more exciting at Villa, but a better player at Man City this year.

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

OTIB yearns for one, if only as a Plan B.

An interesting read for those of you interested in a more statistical evaluation (with words) of the role.

If that isn’t your thing, read it before Milan Djuric is in the piece!

Like all tactics, there is a time and a place to deploy the tactic,

It's shouldn't be a plan b however, may plan f

[Partridge is a robin]

Surely Haaland is a target man

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

And that was “Death of The Target Man” by Pep the Unstoppable TIkataka Machine.

Next, here’s the latest from the Wedding Present

That explains the tweet put out by OTIB which features your pic.

5 minutes ago, Partridge is a robin said:

Surely Haaland is a target man

No, he’s just big.  Big doesn’t necessarily make them a target man.

[The Coach]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That explains the tweet put out by OTIB which features your pic.

No, he’s just big.  Big doesn’t necessarily make them a target man.

Precisely. Haaland thrives off the early ball either played to his feet or whipped from the wings high or low. Not a target man at all.

I had this conversation last week with my grandfather who turned around and commented that "what City need is a big target man up front". To which I explained they don't, and that football has now evolved on from the standard big lump up front. He had some understanding of my points but it's a different generation of fan use to a different generation of football. Just shows how much of an impact Pep has had on thee english game and how far we've now come!

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Precisely. Haaland thrives off the early ball either played to his feet or whipped from the wings high or low. Not a target man at all.

I had this conversation last week with my grandfather who turned around and commented that "what City need is a big target man up front". To which I explained they don't, and that football has now evolved on from the standard big lump up front. He had some understanding of my points but it's a different generation of fan use to a different generation of football. Just shows how much of an impact Pep has had on thee english game and how far we've now come!

I grew up watching football in an era of Joe Royle up top.  I loved Mick Harford.  But my “football philosophy” (if you can call it that) was formed by Neville and Riley…two littl’uns!

[Bristol Oil Services]

44 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

'Death of a Disco Dancer' surely? 

Or, just "Death Disco" ?

[Gimme Shelton]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I grew up watching football in an era of Joe Royle up top.  I loved Mick Harford.  But my “football philosophy” (if you can call it that) was formed by Neville and Riley…two littl’uns!

With Walsh and Pritchard (two big 'uns) out wide! We played some fantastic football with that front line,when the Times called us ' the Real Madrid of the 3rd division '

[Major Isewater]

34 minutes ago, Partridge is a robin said:

Surely Haaland is a target man

Just like Erling Haaland. 

[Selred]

I actually think a target man is becoming more effective than ever. Lot's of CB's are now becoming more of a footballer, great with the ball at their feet but not as big and strong as previously. Prime example is Naismith or Vyner for us.

We got bullied away at Luton, who had the big bloke up front. Morris? Can't remember.

Anyway yes the game is becoming more technical, but a target man can still do the job and cause havoc.

 

[Simon bristol]

11 minutes ago, Selred said:

I actually think a target man is becoming more effective than ever. Lot's of CB's are now becoming more of a footballer, great with the ball at their feet but not as big and strong as previously. Prime example is Naismith or Vyner for us.

We got bullied away at Luton, who had the big bloke up front. Morris? Can't remember.

Anyway yes the game is becoming more technical, but a target man can still do the job and cause havoc.

 

Yes, its not pretty, but we might as well not bother playing that game at luton,  luckily next season we wont be!

[Davefevs]

20 minutes ago, Selred said:

I actually think a target man is becoming more effective than ever. Lot's of CB's are now becoming more of a footballer, great with the ball at their feet but not as big and strong as previously. Prime example is Naismith or Vyner for us.

We got bullied away at Luton, who had the big bloke up front. Morris? Can't remember.

Anyway yes the game is becoming more technical, but a target man can still do the job and cause havoc.

 

Very true.

[marcofisher]

1 hour ago, Selred said:

I actually think a target man is becoming more effective than ever. Lot's of CB's are now becoming more of a footballer, great with the ball at their feet but not as big and strong as previously. Prime example is Naismith or Vyner for us.

We got bullied away at Luton, who had the big bloke up front. Morris? Can't remember.

Anyway yes the game is becoming more technical, but a target man can still do the job and cause havoc.

 

True, but their forwards were so much more than big brutes that didn't move and just held it up. They could press defences, cause havoc and make runs in behind too.

[NcnsBcfc]

1 hour ago, Selred said:

I actually think a target man is becoming more effective than ever. Lot's of CB's are now becoming more of a footballer, great with the ball at their feet but not as big and strong as previously. Prime example is Naismith or Vyner for us.

We got bullied away at Luton, who had the big bloke up front. Morris? Can't remember.

Anyway yes the game is becoming more technical, but a target man can still do the job and cause havoc.

 

Agreed.

Also Simms for Sunderland had a fantastic game against us at the gate. Leading the line in a way in which you rarely see nowadays.

[italian dave]

59 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

True, but their forwards were so much more than big brutes that didn't move and just held it up. They could press defences, cause havoc and make runs in behind too.

Agree. They were big and strong, but they weren’t just used as “targets” for long hopeful punts, quite the reverse.

The other thing I remember from that game, and is mentioned in the article Dave posted, is how hopeless we were at trying to play out of defence to relieve pressure. As the article says, Brentford have the set up and the ability to play short balls and neat passing movements out of trouble when they need to, and don’t rely the whole time on a punt to a target man. 

[SecretSam]

4 hours ago, chinapig said:

Not entirely gone I think but thankfully the days of every move starting with the keeper hoofing it aimlessly up field. Watch 1970s games on YouTube to remind yourself!

And for some context...look at the state of the pitch...

[chinapig]

12 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

And for some context...look at the state of the pitch...

Yes, fair comment. Though starting moves with the keeper launching it was still the default by and large even when the pitches were ok. Though that might only be for about 2 months!

[SecretSam]

36 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Yes, fair comment. Though starting moves with the keeper launching it was still the default by and large even when the pitches were ok. Though that might only be for about 2 months!

Start as you mean to go on...

[BCFCAL]

Think target men these days are just more than target men, that's all, they now possess pace and fantastic technical ability. "Great feet for a big man" is the standard now I think

[SecretSam]

So, who was the first of the 'modern number 9s'? The strong, big, quick, accurate striker.

I'm thinking of someone like Christian Vieri, maybe Stan Collywobble?

[TinMan's left peg]

20 hours ago, The Coach said:

 

I had this conversation last week with my grandfather who turned around and commented that "what City need is a big target man up front". To which I explained they don't, and that football has now evolved on from the standard big lump up front. He had some understanding of my points but it's a different generation of fan use to a different generation of football. Just shows how much of an impact Pep has had on thee english game and how far we've now come!

It’s interesting how the way people see the game has evolved.  I think this is the main reason why certain more senior members of the crowd around me get very frustrated and continually shout “Forward!” when city are keeping possession and probing for an opening.  They just don’t get it 

[SecretSam]

3 minutes ago, TinMan's left peg said:

It’s interesting how the way people see the game has evolved.  I think this is the main reason why certain more senior members of the crowd around me get very frustrated and continually shout “Forward!” when city are keeping possession and probing for an opening.  They just don’t get it 

Perhaps when someone shouts it, you should point at them and shout "backward!"