Formation

[SBB]

There’s been a bit of discussion on the formation for next season. Some think/have suggested we will go 3 at the back. 
Nige touches on it during his club interview today. Sounds like we will be similar to last season.

Around 5:15 for those interested. 

 

[Red Army 87]

18 minutes ago, SBB said:

There’s been a bit of discussion on the formation for next season. Some think/have suggested we will go 3 at the back. 
Nige touches on it during his club interview today. Sounds like we will be similar to last season.

Around 5:15 for those interested. 

 

This is the leader / manager etc that we have needed for a long, long time before he came. He just instills confidence in the process and the players must feel that. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, Red Army 87 said:

This is the leader / manager etc that we have needed for a long, long time before he came. He just instills confidence in the process and the players must feel that. 

I quite liked how he said that players will hear his voice enough during the season so he's essential taking a watching brief right now. 

That's really good management in my opinion. 

 

[Red Army 87]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I quite liked how he said that players will hear his voice enough during the season so he's essential taking a watching brief right now. 

That's really good management in my opinion. 

 

Agreed - he knows the culture he wants to create.

Even little bits from the ‘uncut’ videos, you can see the players respect him - they don’t fear him in a way, just want to do well for him. 

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, Red Army 87 said:

This is the leader / manager etc that we have needed for a long, long time before he came. He just instills confidence in the process and the players must feel that. 

You make it sound like he has done well here and we should all be delighted with the last 2 seasons..!

 

Now don't get me wrong, I was surprised & pleased when we appointed him.

His first year was a disaster, but we all understood that a large project of rebuilding was underway.

By December, I wanted him gone as we looked utterly clueless & destined to be relegated.

A turn around since then gave a little more optimism for the future - but you make it sound like we have some messiah at the helm.!

He has been below average up to this point - hopefully because of needing to tighten the belt - but this season will be all on him & we've/he's got few excuses to get away with another dire period again.

Hopefully it will be steadily onward & upward from here - but less that a top 10 finish will be disappointing inho & anything more will be great - anything less & we will be back to square one - with a totally unremarkable 3 years having passed us by. 

I really don't get why some feel the need to have their tongue quite so firmly up his arse, like he has actually done anything to be very pleased about here, yet.

Hopefully this season will justify my initial enthusiasm over his appointment. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

By December, I wanted him gone as we looked utterly clueless & destined to be relegated.

We really really really didn't mate. 

[Bar BS3]

8 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We really really really didn't mate. 

You don't think so.?

I certainly did & the majority of people I spoke to at the time did aswell.

We were utterly dire.!

[Robbored]

Why try to fix anything if it’s not broken?

Nige has said in that interview that he’ll play in a way that suits the players and seems like no real change from last season.

[Eddie Notgetinya]

9 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

You don't think so.?

I certainly did & the majority of people I spoke to at the time did aswell.

We were utterly dire.!

I respect your opinion but looking at the bigger picture he’s exactly what we need.

Culture, fitness issues, coaching issues, deadwood, high earners, poor recruitment - he’s knows his onions and he’s got us to a much better place. He managed expectations from the get go aswell which was a reality check some needed.

Improvement is a requirement this season but I have every confidence. I’d be happy if we can go into the final month with a glimmer of playoff hope, I don’t expect us to make it, I’d take 10th with good football.

[W-S-M Seagull]

29 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

You don't think so.?

I certainly did & the majority of people I spoke to at the time did aswell.

We were utterly dire.!

With respect, I think you were all over reacting.

Let's look at our pre Christmas results - 

Hull Away - Shafted my dodgy decisions

Sunderland at home - Newly promoted team is always a banana skin. Defensive mistakes cost us.

Coventry (cup) easy win. 

Wigan away - should have been another win. Dodgy decisions cost us.

Luton - good win with 10 men against the eventual play off final winners. 

Cardiff - Great derby win.

Wycombe (cup) professional win.

Blackpool away - should have won. Defensive mistakes let us down but still a point.

Huddersfield - easy win

Norwich away - probably one of our best performances of the season against a good side but ultimately lost.

Burnley away - lost to the eventual champions but put in a good performance. 

QPR - poor performance. QPR were in form at that time. 

Coventry - should have won that. Huge amount of crosses into their box. Didn't take our chances.

Birmingham away - atrocious performance. But in the long term glad it happened. 

Preston - good win against a team we historically don't beat.

Millwall - Frustrating loss against a decent team. 

West Brom away - good away win at a ground we struggle at.

Reading away - we didn't turn up. 

Swansea - good point with Tanner and pring playing cb. Could have maybe won.

Sheffield Utd - Still not sure how we lost that game in monsoon conditions. One of the best performances of the season against a team that eventually finished 2nd. Norwood should have seen red.

Boro away - good battling away point. 

Lincoln (cup) No words needed here. 

Watford - again another of our best performances. Should have won.

World cup break

Rotherham away - good away win at a decent team.

Stoke - took the lead. Should have won but we were sloppy and didn't take our chances.

West Brom - yes that was poor. 

We then got two very good away points at Coventry and Millwall. 

I can't see anywhere in there where we looked anything like a team that could go down. Yes we had a fee bad results and performances. But nothing that warrants the we were going down tag. 

Most of us could see the progress that had been made and also understood that injuries were impacting us. I think all our bad runs last season came at a time where Naismith was injured. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

55 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

You don't think so.?

I certainly did & the majority of people I spoke to at the time did aswell.

We were utterly dire.!

You obviously mix in a different fan group to me then?

We were far from dire (imho)…you state it as fact.  We were crap at Brum, a really lacklustre performance that cost some players their “careers” here.  I didn’t see another performance like that all season.  Disappointing in some games, yes.  But even Burnley we’re disappointing in some of their games too.

I honestly don’t think people realise how dire the finance side of things was, and how that restricted us.  It left no depth, kids filling the spots.  A central midfield reliant on Andy King and Omar Taylor-Clarke still saw us competitive enough.

The players like Vyner, who “you” (not you per se) slagged off are now spoken of as “should’ve got player of the year”.

The amount of change Nige (and the team) have put this club through in 2 1/3 years is huge.  It takes time for change to take effect, results are beginning to catch up.

I don’t think Nige is perfect, but this is what a plan looks like….from its creation to its execution.  Created by someone who has a clue about what success looks like…and has delivered it.

I don’t expect to change your mind, in fact I’m not trying to, I’m just stating my view of it.

[Bar BS3]

54 minutes ago, Eddie Notgetinya said:

I respect your opinion but looking at the bigger picture he’s exactly what we need.

Culture, fitness issues, coaching issues, deadwood, high earners, poor recruitment - he’s knows his onions and he’s got us to a much better place. He managed expectations from the get go aswell which was a reality check some needed.

Improvement is a requirement this season but I have every confidence. I’d be happy if we can go into the final month with a glimmer of playoff hope, I don’t expect us to make it, I’d take 10th with good football.

I agree. That is basically what I said - but it amazes me that people think he's done better than anyone else before him. 

Hopefully this season will see things come to fruition..

[Ian M]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You obviously mix in a different fan group to me then?

We were far from dire (imho)…you state it as fact.  We were crap at Brum, a really lacklustre performance that cost some players their “careers” here.  I didn’t see another performance like that all season.  Disappointing in some games, yes.  But even Burnley we’re disappointing in some of their games too.

I honestly don’t think people realise how dire the finance side of things was, and how that restricted us.  It left no depth, kids filling the spots.  A central midfield reliant on Andy King and Omar Taylor-Clarke still saw us competitive enough.

The players like Vyner, who “you” (not you per se) slagged off are now spoken of as “should’ve got player of the year”.

The amount of change Nige (and the team) have put this club through in 2 1/3 years is huge.  It takes time for change to take effect, results are beginning to catch up.

I don’t think Nige is perfect, but this is what a plan looks like….from its creation to its execution.  Created by someone who has a clue about what success looks like…and has delivered it.

I don’t expect to change your mind, in fact I’m not trying to, I’m just stating my view of it.

Excellent post!

[Bar BS3]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You obviously mix in a different fan group to me then?

We were far from dire (imho)…you state it as fact.  We were crap at Brum, a really lacklustre performance that cost some players their “careers” here.  I didn’t see another performance like that all season.  Disappointing in some games, yes.  But even Burnley we’re disappointing in some of their games too.

I honestly don’t think people realise how dire the finance side of things was, and how that restricted us.  It left no depth, kids filling the spots.  A central midfield reliant on Andy King and Omar Taylor-Clarke still saw us competitive enough.

The players like Vyner, who “you” (not you per se) slagged off are now spoken of as “should’ve got player of the year”.

The amount of change Nige (and the team) have put this club through in 2 1/3 years is huge.  It takes time for change to take effect, results are beginning to catch up.

I don’t think Nige is perfect, but this is what a plan looks like….from its creation to its execution.  Created by someone who has a clue about what success looks like…and has delivered it.

I don’t expect to change your mind, in fact I’m not trying to, I’m just stating my view of it.

I agree with alot of what you say (apart from us being utterly dire around December time - we were)

Fingers crossed that this season shows that it's all been part of a plan that is starting to work. 

[Davefevs]

24 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I agree with alot of what you say (apart from us being utterly dire around December time - we were)

Fingers crossed that this season shows that it's all been part of a plan that is starting to work. 

No, we weren’t.

Beat Rotherham 3-1

Lost to Stoke when I’d argue we shaded the game but gave away a goal.  Played well in spells.  Result taints performance.

Lost to West Brom, really even first half, Weimann hit the bar…second half they played well and we couldn’t get near them and they went 2-0 up.  We then really pressured them but couldn’t force our way back into the game

Drew 0-0 with Millwall.

Not really a dire December was it? 4 points from 4 games isn’t dire.

Then 1-1 with Cov on NYD

That 0-0 with Millwall started a 13 game unbeaten run.

The results are factual.

[Oh Louie louie]

In my time watching city, hes had his hands tied at this level, more so than any other manager,with the exception of Russell Osman, the job hes done mixing journeyman and kids, you got to take your hat off to nige, as well as flem and Euell,

[glynriley]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You obviously mix in a different fan group to me then?

He does, mine. I’ve been pretty much a lone voice for 2 years

[Bar BS3]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No, we weren’t.

Beat Rotherham 3-1

Lost to Stoke when I’d argue we shaded the game but gave away a goal.  Played well in spells.  Result taints performance.

Lost to West Brom, really even first half, Weimann hit the bar…second half they played well and we couldn’t get near them and they went 2-0 up.  We then really pressured them but couldn’t force our way back into the game

Drew 0-0 with Millwall.

Not really a dire December was it? 4 points from 4 games isn’t dire.

Then 1-1 with Cov on NYD

That 0-0 with Millwall started a 13 game unbeaten run.

The results are factual.

Yes, the draw at Millwall proved to be a turning point to regaining some form & it was desperately needed.

We started really promisingly & it seemed that just repeated silly errors were costing us - but beyond the Creditable Norwich away loss & Millwall away, we looked like we were reverting to type, from the previous 18 months.

Maybe I was a little over paranoid back at the time - but had those previous 18 months of absolute dross (bar the odd exception) getting me down maybe .!

 

As I said - hopefully this season will see the longer term plans come to some fruition.

I'm targeting a top 10 finish as sign of progress & hoping we may at least be in touching distance of top 6 throughout the season.

[cidered abroad]

9 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

You make it sound like he has done well here and we should all be delighted with the last 2 seasons..!

 

Now don't get me wrong, I was surprised & pleased when we appointed him.

His first year was a disaster, but we all understood that a large project of rebuilding was underway.

By December, I wanted him gone as we looked utterly clueless & destined to be relegated.

A turn around since then gave a little more optimism for the future - but you make it sound like we have some messiah at the helm.!

He has been below average up to this point - hopefully because of needing to tighten the belt - but this season will be all on him & we've/he's got few excuses to get away with another dire period again.

Hopefully it will be steadily onward & upward from here - but less that a top 10 finish will be disappointing inho & anything more will be great - anything less & we will be back to square one - with a totally unremarkable 3 years having passed us by. 

I really don't get why some feel the need to have their tongue quite so firmly up his arse, like he has actually done anything to be very pleased about here, yet.

Hopefully this season will justify my initial enthusiasm over his appointment. 

So I suppose you preferred his predecessor who measured the height of the grass and narrowed the pitch because he couldn't organise a defence. The one who picked show ponies instead of good solid performers.

The dipstick who, as a player, slammed the dropped ball into the net from the restart after an opponent was treated for an injury.

[1960maaan]

Has a system in mind that fits the players, and then recruits for that system ?

It'll never catch on.

[steviestevieneville]

The lack of perspective here is ridiculous . Typical of some football fans just looking at results & judging without taking what’s going on behind the scenes into account. The amount of financial turmoil , player turnover, change in culture has been huge these last couple of years. Pearson , tinnion  , the current back room staff plus Richard Gould deserve massive credit. The fact that we haven’t been in any danger of relegation is amazing really. You only have to look back to a similar time 2012/13 when we went down with a whimper. If anyone really thinks , you’ll get the amount of upheaval we’ve had but still play consistently good football  getting results in a league that’s very difficult to get consistency , even when a club is ran well then you’re deluded. Only this season coming is where the management can start to be judged on results . Even then I don’t see it game by game , but how the squad evolves over the season . 

[frenchred]

26 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

The lack of perspective here is ridiculous . Typical of some football fans just looking at results & judging without taking what’s going on behind the scenes into account. -unfortunately it's a results driven industry without them you die! Cannot sugar coat crap results.The amount of financial turmoil , player turnover, change in culture has been huge these last couple of years. Pearson , tinnion  , the current back room staff plus Richard Gould deserve massive credit- Gould tarnished his image and achievements with the pathetic rewards scheme, if Ashton had given us this .... The fact that we haven’t been in any danger of relegation is amazing really.- we have been. You only have to look back to a similar time 2012/13 when we went down with a whimper. If anyone really thinks , you’ll get the amount of upheaval we’ve had but still play consistently good football - I wouldn't say we played consistently good football, periodically good maybe?  getting results in a league that’s very difficult to get consistency , even when a club is ran well then you’re deluded. Only this season coming is where the management can start to be judged on results . Even then I don’t see it game by game , but how the squad evolves over the season . Agree with this bit!

I have added my opinion (for what it's worth) to your comments above. Not to start an argument just to show people have different opinions and views of Nige's management and our club

[Davefevs]

 

I don’t think anyone has tried to sugar coat crap results, but the manager has explained some of the reasons why…and the process and the context.  Some refuse to listen, some refuse to see it as anything other than an excuse, etc.  But if you take where we were, versus where we are now, it’s hard to believe it’s from luck, and a careful plan, a plan based on knowledge and experience.

Without going into detail, I met up with one of Nige’s team last week.  I had the best part of two hours talking to him about all manner of things City related.  It was fascinating and gave a big insight into how Nige and City now operate.  It’s hard to think anything other than 2 years (2 1/3 actually) of hard work under several constraints have got us to a position where we really should be at the point to kick on.  As someone else said, this is probably the time to start judging.

Re Gould - piss-poor scheme.  And boy have people moaned about it.  It’s hardly like fans have said “ah we’ll forgive good old Richard” is it?

Re Relegation - depends of your view of danger?  We’ve never had a run under Nige where a win looks far away.  We can agree to differ.

Re Good football - yep, mixed / inconsistent.  Generally it’s been more exciting, especially WSM 21/22 and some early 22/23 until injuries hit, then again Jan / Feb, until the schedule hit our shallow-depth squad.

[GrahamC]

14 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

You don't think so.?

I certainly did & the majority of people I spoke to at the time did aswell.

We were utterly dire.!

On Boxing Day we were 18th, level on points with the 4 sides immediately below us & 2 clear of the drop zone, so to say we were “heading for relegation” isn’t so much glass half empty, as glass empty.

I don’t know anyone who thought we were definitely going down, but do recall a few who had lost patience with NP, though still a minority of those I speak to.

Dire is certainly an overstatement, there were some dreadful performances, especially at Birmingham (again) & Reading, but they weren’t regular occurrences.

I suppose it all boils down to whether you think giving an experienced, proven manager at this level time to sort out the mess he inherited is a better idea that changing course again & again, with no obvious plan.

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I agree. That is basically what I said - but it amazes me that people think he's done better than anyone else before him. 

Hopefully this season will see things come to fruition..

I don't think in recent times anyone before him has had to work under the conditions he has had to work under. 

For me, overall, Pearson has so far done a better job here than LJ did. He hasn't had tens of millions to spend yet has totally transformed the club.

Even when we were near the bottom of league one, Cotts had money to spend. 

Pearson has had f all because of the ffp problems and he has had to work with basically what he's got. Despite those constraints, he has massively improved us. Last season only a handful of games can be described as terrible. For context, even Coventry lost 4 nil at home to Stoke in April, a few days later we beat Stoke. I don't think we conceded 4 once last season? 

He's done an absolutely outstanding job in my opinion where now the foundations have been built and we are now ready to push on, thanks to him. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You obviously mix in a different fan group to me then?

We were far from dire (imho)…you state it as fact.  We were crap at Brum, a really lacklustre performance that cost some players their “careers” here.  I didn’t see another performance like that all season.  Disappointing in some games, yes.  But even Burnley we’re disappointing in some of their games too.

I honestly don’t think people realise how dire the finance side of things was, and how that restricted us.  It left no depth, kids filling the spots.  A central midfield reliant on Andy King and Omar Taylor-Clarke still saw us competitive enough.

The players like Vyner, who “you” (not you per se) slagged off are now spoken of as “should’ve got player of the year”.

The amount of change Nige (and the team) have put this club through in 2 1/3 years is huge.  It takes time for change to take effect, results are beginning to catch up.

I don’t think Nige is perfect, but this is what a plan looks like….from its creation to its execution.  Created by someone who has a clue about what success looks like…and has delivered it.

I don’t expect to change your mind, in fact I’m not trying to, I’m just stating my view of it.

You're on fire Dave  

Looking back now, I'm glad Brum away happened. It was a pivotal moment. 

I've said this many times but last season for the most part, we were pretty much in every game and that was with a small squad that had lots of injuries. We didn't ever really have that level of consistency under LJ. It was lots of bad runs and then lots of good runs under him. 

I think if we look back then when we didn't play so well, coincided with Naismith being injured? 

I think many forget that last season we had both Baker and Kalas unavailable, plus Naismith at times. So 3 really important centre backs, on good wages, unavailable. Yet despite that, we never ever looked in danger of going down. 

[Bar BS3]

25 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I don't think in recent times anyone before him has had to work under the conditions he has had to work under. 

For me, overall, Pearson has so far done a better job here than LJ did. He hasn't had tens of millions to spend yet has totally transformed the club.

Even when we were near the bottom of league one, Cotts had money to spend. 

Pearson has had f all because of the ffp problems and he has had to work with basically what he's got. Despite those constraints, he has massively improved us. Last season only a handful of games can be described as terrible. For context, even Coventry lost 4 nil at home to Stoke in April, a few days later we beat Stoke. I don't think we conceded 4 once last season? 

He's done an absolutely outstanding job in my opinion where now the foundations have been built and we are now ready to push on, thanks to him. 

I wouldn't say outstanding - but we certainly recovered from Christmas time & it all looks more promising.

We do need to push on this coming season though.

Another season bottom half wouldn't really be showing much progress, imo. 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think many forget that last season we had both Baker and Kalas unavailable, plus Naismith at times. So 3 really important centre backs, on good wages, unavailable. Yet despite that, we never ever looked in danger of going down. 

Agree….and it is why when I look forward I see tiny squad churn this summer (as it stands).  Kalas barely played, Massengo played a little…the only other player who might leave OOC is King, who looks as if he’s being retained in some shape or form.  Then we add two high minutes players (on paper), Dickie and McCrorie, and one “project who’s ready” in Roberts.  The story is he is technically superb.

So, from a simplistic look, we are stronger than the “team” that played last season.

A good while to go in the window, but if we get Knight too, that’s a very solid, targeted, recruitment process executed.

Just now, Bar BS3 said:

We do need to push on this coming season though.

Another season bottom half wouldn't really be showing much progress, imo. 

Yep and yep.

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

On Boxing Day we were 18th, level on points with the 4 sides immediately below us & 2 clear of the drop zone, so to say we were “heading for relegation” isn’t so much glass half empty, as glass empty.

I don’t know anyone who thought we were definitely going down, but do recall a few who had lost patience with NP, though still a minority of those I speak to.

Dire is certainly an overstatement, there were some dreadful performances, especially at Birmingham (again) & Reading, but they weren’t regular occurrences.

I suppose it all boils down to whether you think giving an experienced, proven manager at this level time to sort out the mess he inherited is a better idea that changing course again & again, with no obvious plan.

18th, 2 points off the drop zone & 1 win in our last 9 games - didn't have you atall concerned that we might be in trouble..?

OK then.! You've obviously got steadier nerves than I had at that time.!

[W-S-M Seagull]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Agree….and it is why when I look forward I see tiny squad churn this summer (as it stands).  Kalas barely played, Massengo played a little…the only other player who might leave OOC is King, who looks as if he’s being retained in some shape or form.  Then we add two high minutes players (on paper), Dickie and McCrorie, and one “project who’s ready” in Roberts.  The story is he is technically superb.

So, from a simplistic look, we are stronger than the “team” that played last season.

A good while to go in the window, but if we get Knight too, that’s a very solid, targeted, recruitment process executed.

Yep and yep.

And also on top of that, we could maybe also see one or two break through from the academy? 

Semenyo of course also left in January and I don't think we really noticeably missed him. I don't think we would have finished much better off had he of stayed.

I'm really excited for this coming season. It finally feels as if we almost have a settled squad with depth.