Scott Twine - Loan Confirmed - No option to buy

[Mr Popodopolous]

Believe Willock would be more realistic than Chair.

[Shauntaylor85]

Personally would trade Cornick this window too, wouldn’t be at all surprised. I would be looking at a Semenyo type for that left side. Bell and Mehmeti aren’t the answer. 

[Tim Monaghan]

1 hour ago, George Rs said:

 

Where have you pulled it’s the going rate from? 

Finn Azaz, younger, playing much better in a worse team = £2.5m

Scott Twine, older, playing worse in the joint 4th best goal scoring side in the division currently = £5m. 
 

The only plus Twine has is Manning has played with him before and that isn’t worth double the price. 

Imagine football was that easy, like picking players off of a shelf and comparing them like a pack of baked beans. I hate all these moneyball stats. So much more to it than binary numbers and excel sheets. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Jeez said:

Very conservative point of view, that mentality keeps you mid table at best.

it was only a few months ago everyone lost it because we did sign a replacement for Scott but we don’t want to spend the going rate for Twine who is literally the best option we can get.

I sense it’s mostly because a poster on here advised the club to sign him on a free & was snubbed that’s the thrust of why people are mooning about the price tag:

 

 

No, people thought we were being lied to re budget, and that we felt a couple of players at the kind of profile of Dickie or Knight were achievable.  No sane person on here was suggesting spending £5m on a player.

(and yes, i know we could we sign him and it be less than £5m)

So we are all following @Harry.  Even @Harry isn’t following your line of assumption.

1 hour ago, BCFC31 said:

I wish people would stop going on about the past we have cleared so much room for our selves to manoeuvre.  W do actually have to build guys if we don't sign quality how do we progress .... anyone would think we're trying to sign a player with no upsale potential he is also the exact type of player we need let's all just enjoy it and hope we actually start to kick on for once on the pitch with some investment going into the playing side.

Why?   It’s completely against the line we have been given by the club on recruitment.  We’d cleared that same headroom in August.  At what point do the lies ruin a fan to club / club hierarchy relationship?

Short memories imho, that’s why some of “don’t just enjoy it”.

Why can’t we opine over a rumoured transfer fee and its view of being value for money?

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Imagine football was that easy, like picking players off of a shelf and comparing them like a pack of baked beans. I hate all these moneyball stats. So much more to it than binary numbers and excel sheets. 

Depends how you use it.

They are used across recruitment teams up and down the PL and EFL for good reason.  There is more to it, but nobody is saying what you are suggesting, are they?

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Should beat Brentford to Whittaker for £7m imo, and also try for Bamford on loan

I’ve come to this thread late, so expecting a whoosh…

Bamford on loan?

[BCFC31]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, people thought we were being lied to re budget, and that we felt a couple of players at the kind of profile of Dickie or Knight were achievable.  No sane person on here was suggesting spending £5m on a player.

(and yes, i know we could we sign him and it be less than £5m)

So we are all following @Harry.  Even @Harry isn’t following your line of assumption.

Why?   It’s completely against the line we have been given by the club on recruitment.  We’d cleared that same headroom in August.  At what point do the lies ruin a fan to club / club hierarchy relationship?

Short memories imho, that’s why some of “don’t just enjoy it”.

Why can’t we opine over a rumoured transfer fee and its view of being value for money?

Debate all we want about fees but our sqaud is nowhere near good enough for top 6 unless we start spending/reinvesting a decent amount of money on quality then we will always remain a bottom half championship club. If the club feel there Is enough head room to do it then brilliant if they feel 5m is value for money then time will tell I don't think anyone in here Is qualifed to say if twine is or isn't he may come in and score 20 goals next season and register 18 assists then people would be saying 5m is a steal everyone mentions this nest egg thing and rightly so well let's now go and dip into that nest egg and back liam manning.

Edited January 14 by BCFC31

[Shauntaylor85]

30 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Believe Willock would be more realistic than Chair.

We were linked with Willock in the summer, was player of the year two years ago with 7 goals and 11 assists, many Hoops fans I know thought he was the next big thing, bad injuries since, but seems to have picked up form under the new gaffer, OOC in the summer, wouldn’t surprise me if we were back in for him. Clearly on the scouting list. I would personally like us to go for Al Hamadi, I have a feeling we may regret it if not, sooner rather than later we will get a lower league bargain striker right! 

[Dastardly and Muttley]

£4-5m for Twine feels like a panic buy. We missed out on two other targets at a more reasonable fee, so we’re going back to pay Burnley’s high-price because we can’t afford to leave Manning without at least one of his targets this window.

And, as you know, the best way out of a hole is to keep digging…

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

Debate all we want about fees

that’s what we are doing!

but our sqaud is nowhere near good enough for top 6

yep

unless we start spending/reinvesting a decent amount of money on quality

Possibly 

then we will always remain a bottom half championship club.

disagree, we were moving towards top half nicely imho by following a sensible strategy.

If the club feel there Is enough head room to do it then brilliant

agree…but that’s a massive contradiction to what we were told.  That’s a big part of the reason for the debate.

if they feel 5m is value for money then time will tell I don't think anyone in here Is qualifed to say if twine is or isn't

shut the forum down then, or perhaps  just allow Tins and the Burnley recruitment officer to post? having said that, could just go on twitter

he may come in and score 20 goals next season and register 18 assists then people would be saying 5m is a steal everyone mentions this nest egg thing and rightly so well let's now go and dip into that nest egg and back liam manning.

he might, he might not.

it’s probably worth revisiting the next-egg comment from SL.  It was something like “if we can sell a player like Alex for £20m every season, we could build a nice nest egg for the future and really do something”.  On that basis We haven’t built the nest egg yet.  And if SL wants to cut his funding commitment like he has this season, how much do you think is available?

 

[FNQ]

15 minutes ago, BCFC31 said:

Debate all we want about fees but our sqaud is nowhere near good enough for top 6 unless we start spending a decent amount of money on quality then we will always remain a bottom half championship club.

Also, we need to offer hope to our current squad… if for example Joe Williams or Tommy can’t see a vision that they believe in for the future why would they sign a new contract as opposed to move to the likes of Coventry, Hull or any other more ambitious environment? We can’t stop players leaving for the prem, but it’ll be sad day if we lose our better players to the championship.

[Harry]

Let’s suppose …… 

What would thoughts be if we’d allowed Nige to sign Twine in the summer, for £5m, the day after Scott left? 
 

£25m in the door. £5m out the door next day. 
 

As I’ve said, I love Twine.  But whether it was last summer, this Jan or next summer, I wouldn’t want to spend £5m. 
 

But given the scenario above, I actually think many people will take a different view to me and would think it was good business. 
 

Of course, my scenario is a hypothetical one and we all know that Nige was denied money and Liam is seemingly allowed money. And I wonder if this is skewing some people’s thoughts??……. 

Edited January 14 by Harry

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Also, we need to offer hope to our current squad… if for example Joe Williams or Tommy can’t see a vision that they believe in for the future why would they sign a new contract as opposed to move to the likes of Coventry, Hull or any other more ambitious environment? We can’t stop players leaving for the prem, but it’ll be sad day if we lose our better players to the championship.

I think that’s a fair point if they are moving to what we’d call “similar clubs to us”.  But who has done that?  We haven’t sold a player in years on a sideways move.

You can’t stop a PL club coming in and turning their head.

We’ve yet to see a PP club take one of our players….yet!  This summer might severely test that!

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Let’s suppose …… 

What would thoughts be if we’d allowed Nige to sign Twine in the summer, for £5m, the day after Scott left? 
 

£25m in the door. £5m out the door next day. 
 

As I’ve said, I love Twine.  But whether it was last summer, this Jan or next summer, I wouldn’t want to spend £5m. 
 

But given the scenario above, I actually think many people will take a different view to me and would think it was good business. 
 

Of course, my scenario is a hypothetical one and we all know that Nige was denied money and Liam is seemingly allowed money. And I wonder if this is skewing some people’s thoughts??……. 

My view would’ve been - we could’ve got 2 maybe 3 players for that

Others will think differently.  That’s up to them.

[FNQ]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I think that’s a fair point if they are moving to what we’d call “similar clubs to us”.  But who has done that?  We haven’t sold a player in years on a sideways move.

You can’t stop a PL club coming in and turning their head.

We’ve yet to see a PP club take one of our players….yet!  This summer might severely test that!

I mentioned Joe and Tommy as their contracts are up soon… I agree no way would we sell to a championship competitor… I don’t think Nige wanted Jay Dasilva to leave for example.

[Port Said Red]

24 minutes ago, Harry said:

Let’s suppose …… 

What would thoughts be if we’d allowed Nige to sign Twine in the summer, for £5m, the day after Scott left? 
 

£25m in the door. £5m out the door next day. 
 

As I’ve said, I love Twine.  But whether it was last summer, this Jan or next summer, I wouldn’t want to spend £5m. 
 

But given the scenario above, I actually think many people will take a different view to me and would think it was good business. 
 

Of course, my scenario is a hypothetical one and we all know that Nige was denied money and Liam is seemingly allowed money. And I wonder if this is skewing some people’s thoughts??……. 

I appreciate all the reasons that you say that Twine isn't worth £5m, we had these discussions earlier in the thread. I think that it's all relative though, I think we all agree we are lacking that something special in midfield, and if Manning has persuaded the club that he can make Twine that key player then he could be worth £5m to us come the end of the season.

I think the most common criticism on here of the Lansdown's is their lack of ambition, I don't actually agree with it but, it seems a like a no win situation when this comes up and suddenly the cry seems to be "Not that much ambition".

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, FNQ said:

I mentioned Joe and Tommy as their contracts are up soon… I agree no way would we sell to a championship competitor… I don’t think Nige wanted Jay Dasilva to leave for example.

No I agree re Jay.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Port Said Red said:

I appreciate all the reasons that you say that Twine isn't worth £5m, we had these discussions earlier in the thread. I think that it's all relative though, I think we all agree we are lacking that something special in midfield, and if Manning has persuaded the club that he can make Twine that key player then he could be worth £5m to us come the end of the season.

I think the most common criticism on here of the Lansdown's is their lack of ambition, I don't actually agree with it but, it seems a like a no win situation when this comes up and suddenly the cry seems to be "Not that much ambition".

That is a good point.  Although the caveat is - how much upside does he have at £5m?

If he fires us to the playoffs and promotion (next season) it probably doesn’t matter a jot.  I think some of us think it’s gonna take more than one £5m ability player (whatever the value) to give us a shot.

[Port Said Red]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is a good point.  Although the caveat is - how much upside does he have at £5m?

If he fires us to the playoffs and promotion (next season) it probably doesn’t matter a jot.  I think some of us think it’s gonna take more than one £5m ability player (whatever the value) to give us a shot.

Hopefully with McCrorie getting minutes, Roberts returning to fitness and hopefully Rob A not too far away, it will feel a bit more competitive. Twine would also allow us to blood Murphy at a less pressured rate. 

I know I am ever the optimist, but it's often the case that one player can lift the whole team, strikers make more runs if they think they are more likely to receive the ball, the other midfield players have more options and so on. 

[George Rs]

When would we hear about a recall if it had happened, seeing as the cutoff was midnight should tomorrow at some point? 

[Redrascal2]

Isn't it usual that the longer the thread gets the less chance we have of signing the player.

[George Rs]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is a good point.  Although the caveat is - how much upside does he have at £5m?

If he fires us to the playoffs and promotion (next season) it probably doesn’t matter a jot.  I think some of us think it’s gonna take more than one £5m ability player (whatever the value) to give us a shot.

Reminds me a lot of Moneyball all this

1 “star player” or 2/3 decent players who make up the same average, thinking about it now I’d actually side more towards the multiple good players then 1 statement signing or whatever. 

As much as I like our squad, there’s at least 5/6 minimum that aren’t playoff quality/can’t be coached to that level. So for me bringing in 3 players at £2m is preferable to one at 5, especially with the current size of our squad. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

My view would’ve been - we could’ve got 2 maybe 3 players for that

Others will think differently.  That’s up to them.

Nige wouldn't have allowed us to spend 5 million on him I doubt because he would have had the same train of thought as you. 

We've seen how Nige was very conscious about us spending money in the past. One of the reasons he didn't like loan players was because of the money involved. 

I think Nige very much liked to get value for money. 

[FNQ]

1 hour ago, George Rs said:

Reminds me a lot of Moneyball all this

1 “star player” or 2/3 decent players who make up the same average, thinking about it now I’d actually side more towards the multiple good players then 1 statement signing or whatever. 

As much as I like our squad, there’s at least 5/6 minimum that aren’t playoff quality/can’t be coached to that level. So for me bringing in 3 players at £2m is preferable to one at 5, especially with the current size of our squad. 

Be honest.. out of the minimum 5/6 players who you reckon aren’t playoff quality, how many were brought in over the last couple of seasons? No point in bringing in like for like for more of the same. We need a lift in quality from outside of leagues 1 and 2 if we want to reach the playoffs and beyond.

[bpexile]

4 hours ago, Jeez said:

Why is everyone so fixated on the finances? 

I wonder !!! 

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, BCFC31 said:

Debate all we want about fees but our sqaud is nowhere near good enough for top 6 unless we start spending/reinvesting a decent amount of money on quality then we will always remain a bottom half championship club. If the club feel there Is enough head room to do it then brilliant if they feel 5m is value for money then time will tell I don't think anyone in here Is qualifed to say if twine is or isn't he may come in and score 20 goals next season and register 18 assists then people would be saying 5m is a steal everyone mentions this nest egg thing and rightly so well let's now go and dip into that nest egg and back liam manning.

What we need to do is to continue along the lines of what we were doing before. Signing players before they become 5 million pound players and then using our best young coach in England to coach them on the grass to and above a level where they are worth over 5 million. 

If we suddenly start chucking around t million for players then we are back to the days of putting ourselves at risk. 

We could sign Twine 2moro for 5 million and then he does his acl the next day. Much better to spend that money on 2-3 players. Less risk then. 

[scrumpy88]

Nobody knows it would be for £5million. Just one person said it’s £5 million and everyone presuming it’s accurate. 
 

He was out injured majority of last season and hasn’t done too much for Hull this season, I hardly believe they are looking for more than what they paid for him. 
 

I would say the fee would be closer to £3 million 

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, Lrrr said:

I prefer a sofa

Sofa ,so good. 

[Simon bristol]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What we need to do is to continue along the lines of what we were doing before. Signing players before they become 5 million pound players and then using our best young coach in England to coach them on the grass to and above a level where they are worth over 5 million. 

If we suddenly start chucking around t million for players then we are back to the days of putting ourselves at risk. 

We could sign Twine 2moro for 5 million and then he does his acl the next day. Much better to spend that money on 2-3 players. Less risk then. 

I get it re signing 2/3 players for that money, but they wouldn’t necessarily be any better than we already have. Ideally we would have another 3/4 signings of the quality of twine which then ought to have an impact on improving our league position. Bringing in cornick and mehmeti type signings because we shouldn’t go for anything better seems a false economy to me, and they will still be on decent salaries too.

[Finley_Smith10]

Hull end