What is going on?

[johnbytheriver]

18 hours ago, Redandproud said:

Yep,I couldn't connect to the forum all day yesterday, and regarding LJ comment,if he comes back I'm off, 

And so say all of us!

[Merrick's Marvels]

5 hours ago, GrahamC said:

The more important question though is at what point did the contract we offered him on reduced terms get taken off the table & that money was considered to have been already spent elsewhere?

Agreed.

On June 26, when the players reported back for pre-season training, the Post reported "Nigel Pearson insists the prospect of Tomas Kalas signing a new contract at Bristol City remains a possibility".

Further Post articles said much the same thing right up until August 3. So there was still money in the pot for Kalas on August 3.

On August 1, the Post reported "Nigel Pearson admits... the internal wage ceiling imposed on the Robins squad... is close to being reached" but there was room for the manager to make 1 more signing. 

The 1 more signing turns out to be the West Brom lad. At this point, we can assume a wage budget that was "close to being reached" on August 1 is now maxed out.  

That's fine. But...

Since then, Alex Scott and Kalas have gone elsewhere - meaning the wages we were paying the former + the wages we'd offered the latter, have now become available. Ball park figure, £10-15K a week is now available within our self-imposed wage budget. 

How come we're unwilling to spend this when the squad obviously lacks quality and depth?  

And that's not even to mention the first instalment of the Scott transfer fee Bournemouth have just paid us - ball park figure £15-20 million.

So as the OP asks, what the heck is going on? 

An after thought - maybe the intention is to use that £10-15K a week to increase the wages of players already here, the ones we want to keep long term - e.g. last week Pring got a new contract, I don't think the timing of that was a co-incidence - we've taken some of the Scott/Kalas wages and topped up Pring. And maybe there are others we're talking to about new contracts as well - Conway? Bell? Or others we're planning to talk to in the near future - the 3 experienced pros out of contract next summer?

The Vyner situation is an odd one though - we've £10-15K a week in wages to use up. Some has gone to Pring, there might be others, but we haven't offered Vyner enough of a pay rise.

Personally, I can't shake the feeling that's because Dickie and Atkinson are the manager's preferred pairing and he's not too bothered if Vyner leaves. Who knows? 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Mr Popodopolous]

Maybe there is, I'm speculating but both an individual cap and a collective cap.

Hence maybe we won't pay over £15k per week ie they would be our top/joint top earner.

Which is fine but it comes at a price- PL loanees etc rules many of those out. May even weigh negatively on some future contract extension.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Merrick's Marvels]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Maybe there is, I'm speculating but both an individual cap and a collective cap.

Yep, I would think so. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Agreed.

On June 26, when the players reported back for pre-season training, the Post reported "Nigel Pearson insists the prospect of Tomas Kalas signing a new contract at Bristol City remains a possibility".

Further Post articles said much the same thing right up until August 3. So there was still money in the pot for Kalas on August 3.

On August 1, the Post reported "Nigel Pearson admits... the internal wage ceiling imposed on the Robins squad... is close to being reached" but there was room for the manager to make 1 more signing. 

The 1 more signing turns out to be the West Brom lad. At this point, we can assume a wage budget that was "close to being reached" on August 1 is now maxed out.  

That's fine. But...

Since then, Alex Scott and Kalas have gone elsewhere - meaning the wages we were paying the former + the wages we'd offered the latter, have now become available. Ball park figure, £10-15K a week is now available within our self-imposed wage budget. 

How come we're unwilling to spend this when the squad obviously lacks quality and depth?  

And that's not even to mention the first instalment of the Scott transfer fee Bournemouth have just paid us - ball park figure £15-20 million.

So as the OP asks, what the heck is going on? 

An after thought - maybe the intention is to use that £10-15K a week to increase the wages of players already here, the ones we want to keep long term - e.g. last week Pring got a new contract, I don't think the timing of that was a co-incidence - we've taken some of the Scott/Kalas wages and topped up Pring. And maybe there are others we're talking to about new contracts as well - Conway? Bell? Or others we're planning to talk to in the near future - the 3 experienced pros out of contract next summer?

The Vyner situation is an odd one though - we've £10-15K a week in wages to use up. Some has gone to Pring, there might be others, but we haven't offered Vyner enough of a pay rise.

Personally, I can't shake the feeling that's because Dickie and Atkinson are the manager's preferred pairing and he's not too bothered if Vyner leaves. Who knows? 

Nice work.

I think the only potential flaw is how much the Post was writing factually and how much was speculation / educated guesswork.

[JP Hampton]

23 hours ago, BasSavage88 said:

The people who host the forum had a problem and their entire infrastructure went down.

People are finally seeing Pearson's multiple failures as a manager because the people defending him can't really fall back on it being Johnson and Ashton's fault any more 

 

Hmmm. Really, people, yeah I’m sure there’s a few but from what I’m reading the majority wouldn’t agree. Can’t see anyone using Ashton and LJ to fall back on!
 

From what I can see he’s a good manager. He’s very respected.  It’s obvious the players want to play for him, even those who’ve taken wage cuts, which wouldn’t happen otherwise. He’s done exactly what was asked of him by the board and is saving them money consistently. Yet where’s the support for him from the board. 
 

In an end of Season interview with Geoff T on Radio Bristol, not only did Lansdown refer to Tony Robins as a great manager (virtually skimming over Nigel’s contribution to the club), he also said in response to GT asking would there be funds for Nigel if Scott was sold, that “what football earns football can spend”. That was at best a dishonest summing up. 
 

NP is the fall guy. He’s the one delivering all the news about potential signings or lack of them. His is the only face we’re seeing and you can see from his demeanour that he’s not happy and it’s no wonder. 
 

it’s actually setting NP up to fail by ensuring that all he has are division 1 signings, kids coming up through the academy and experienced players who can’t carry the whole team. 
 

I just feel very let down and yes betrayed. They’re not acting honestly or transparently and while some may say it’s an overreaction at this point in the season, I don’t think it’s the results that are making people concerned, so much as the obvious lack of support being shown to the manager the players and ultimately the fans!!

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, JP Hampton said:

Hmmm. Really, people, yeah I’m sure there’s a few but from what I’m reading the majority wouldn’t agree. Can’t see anyone using Ashton and LJ to fall back on!
 

From what I can see he’s a good manager. He’s very respected.  It’s obvious the players want to play for him, even those who’ve taken wage cuts, which wouldn’t happen otherwise. He’s done exactly what was asked of him by the board and is saving them money consistently. Yet where’s the support for him from the board. 
 

In an end of Season interview with Geoff T on Radio Bristol, not only did Lansdown refer to Tony Robins as a great manager (virtually skimming over Nigel’s contribution to the club), he also said in response to GT asking would there be funds for Nigel if Scott was sold, that “what football earns football can spend”. That was at best a dishonest summing up. 
 

NP is the fall guy. He’s the one delivering all the news about potential signings or lack of them. His is the only face we’re seeing and you can see from his demeanour that he’s not happy and it’s no wonder. 
 

it’s actually setting NP up to fail by ensuring that all he has are division 1 signings, kids coming up through the academy and experienced players who can’t carry the whole team. 
 

I just feel very let down and yes betrayed. They’re not acting honestly or transparently and while some may say it’s an overreaction at this point in the season, I don’t think it’s the results that are making people concerned, so much as the obvious lack of support being shown to the manager the players and ultimately the fans!!

I very much agree with almost all you write but SL's exact quote was a little more nuanced.

[JP Hampton]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I very much agree with almost all you write but SL's exact quote was a little more nuanced.

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.  Couldn’t remember the exact wording and it’s probably more what I wanted to hear ie. SL confirming there will be money to spend. 
 

One could argue though that with the sale of Scott and reduced wages etc. football has made money and yet we’re still not spending

Edited August 31, 2023 by JP Hampton

[Mr Popodopolous]

25 minutes ago, JP Hampton said:

Fair enough. Thanks for the clarification.  Couldn’t remember the exact wording and it’s probably more what I wanted to hear ie. SL confirming there will be money to spend. 
 

One could argue though that with the sale of Scott and reduced wages etc. football has made money and yet we’re still not spending

I agree with you, it just feels all a bit meh at the minute. No disaster unless NP departs but nothing to get excited about either.

His Covid reference may refer to large cash losses due to Covid I dunno. He says there is no debt to repay..The two parts to his statement sort of contradict each other.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Gert Mare]

I think SL has been clear in how he wants the club to operate. He doesn’t want us to be operating at a loss and continuing to make up the shortfall from his own pocket.

He has invested heavily in the infrastructure of the club and HPC to make it attractive to young players who can see that there is a genuine pathway into the first team.

There is no way that we could have competed financially to sign a player of Alex Scott’s ability, but we could produce it at a fraction of the cost.

We have to work within the constraints of FFP, but also we need to balance what comes in vs what we pay out in wages.

The risk of simply throwing money around is far greater than the likelihood of achieving success. 

Whilst it might be frustrating from a fans perspective the situation is the same for the majority of clubs in the football league.

You only have to look at the turmoil that has led to 8 - 12 point deductions and almost inventible relegation as a result of clubs that have chosen to take a gamble.

We have avoided FFP penalties, avoided the drop to League One, slashed the wage bill and have profited from the investment made in our academy.

Football is not just a game, it’s serious business with astronomically overinflated costs.

There will become a point where the bubble has to burst and when that time comes we need to be in the mix to embrace and take advantage of those changes. The alternative is that we end up going to the wall long before that time comes.

Yes, SL is quiet, but why repeat what he has said on a number of interviews over recent years?

NP is doing what is required of him with the resources at his disposal. I don’t know of many managers who would want to work in that way as poor results with limited options would reflect badly on their own reputation. Fair play to him. I think quite a number of fans recognise how difficult a job he has and this is why they don’t jump on his back.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Gert Mare

[eardun]

1 hour ago, Gert Mare said:

I think SL has been clear in how he wants the club to operate. He doesn’t want us to be operating at a loss and continuing to make up the shortfall from his own pocket.

He has invested heavily in the infrastructure of the club and HPC to make it attractive to young players who can see that there is a genuine pathway into the first team.

There is no way that we could have competed financially to sign a player of Alex Scott’s ability, but we could produce it at a fraction of the cost.

We have to work within the constraints of FFP, but also we need to balance what comes in vs what we pay out in wages.

The risk of simply throwing money around is far greater than the likelihood of achieving success. 

Whilst it might be frustrating from a fans perspective the situation is the same for the majority of clubs in the football league.

You only have to look at the turmoil that has led to 8 - 12 point deductions and almost inventible relegation as a result of clubs that have chosen to take a gamble.

We have avoided FFP penalties, avoided the drop to League One, slashed the wage bill and have profited from the investment made in our academy.

Football is not just a game, it’s serious business with astronomically overinflated costs.

There will become a point where the bubble has to burst and when that time comes we need to be in the mix to embrace and take advantage of those changes. The alternative is that we end up going to the wall long before that time comes.

Yes, SL is quiet, but why repeat what he has said on a number of interviews over recent years?

NP is doing what is required of him with the resources at his disposal. I don’t know of many managers who would want to work in that way as poor results with limited options would reflect badly on their own reputation. Fair play to him. I think quite a number of fans recognise how difficult a job he has and this is why they don’t jump on his back.

And if SL wants to sell the club, it must make sense to be in even better financial health - it must make us more attractive to a buyer. So perhaps the strategy that some are moaning about (tight purse strings) is in the fact the very strategy that will give them what they want, i.e. new owners. 

Edited August 31, 2023 by eardun

[Barrs Court Red]

2 minutes ago, eardun said:

And if SL wants to sell the club, it must make sense to be in even better financial health - it must make us more attractive to a buyer. So perhaps the strategy that some are moaning about (tight purse strings) is in the fact the very strategy that will give them what they want, i.e. new owners. 

Or it might not…it only takes a sentence of a statement to clarify. 

[eardun]

3 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Or it might not…it only takes a sentence of a statement to clarify. 

Depends if they are actually talking to a potential buyer now though. You’d what matters kept quiet, including if you were the buyer. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Gert Mare said:

We have to work withFootball is not just a game, it’s serious business with astronomically overinflated costs.

There will become a point where the bubble has to burst and when that time comes we need to be in the mix to embrace and take advantage of those changes. The alternative is that we end up going to the wall long before that time comes.

A lot of what you say makes sense but when exactly.

New Financial Rules were announced as due to come into the Championship in April 2022.

Guess what they still haven't arrived.

This time last year in a rather interesting interview on Talksport, the new owner of Hull was on. One part, he was complaining about Parachute Payments but if anything that he couldn't invest more to compete.

Stoke finished midtable in 2021-22..burnt through £39m in cash!!

The PL and EFL need to agree the new distribution mechanism before the new Financial regs come in. This seems no closer than it did a year ago.

Is a joke especially at this level. Wages over 100 pct of turnover.

People have said the bubble.will burst for years though.

Edited August 31, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Barrs Court Red]

7 minutes ago, eardun said:

Depends if they are actually talking to a potential buyer now though. You’d what matters kept quiet, including if you were the buyer. 

Fair point. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

21 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Nice work.

I think the only potential flaw is how much the Post was writing factually and how much was speculation / educated guesswork.

 Originally I wrote "IF the Post reporting is accurate..." umpteen times in my post but it went on a bit so I edited it down.

But the basic point was based on stuff Pearson has said in public, so I think it's reasonable to assume not just speculation - perhaps what I should have written was "IF Nige isn't telling porkies..." !

But as he wasn't, anothe rway to look at it would be:

McCrorie, Dickie and Roberts were all signed before pre-season started on June 26 - on that day, the Post reported Pearson as saying the prospect of Kalas signing a new deal remained a possibility.

So - we'd signed 3 players by then but still had wages set aside in the budget for Kalas.   

Knight signed on July 10. 

On August 3, Pearson is quoted as saying "we're right on the limit in terms of how we've decided to structure the wages" and then specifically on Kalas - "I've not spoken to Tomas for weeks and I think that is something that is probably over now. I'm not going to say definitely not because it's not something that has bene discussed at all. We're not going to shift on the financial aspects of where we were on him and that was the reason it didn't go ahead. I think the probabilities are very, very low."

Pick the bones out of that!

Money still in the pot just in case Kalas comes back? Or we've officially moved on from him and used some/all of the wages we offered him to get Jason Knight?

If we had withdrawn the offer to Kalas by this stage, used that money on the Knight deal, and so had maxed out the budget - the only changes since then are Scott leaving and Taylor G-H arriving - which would probably still eave the budget maxed out.  

But if we signed Knight with the Kalas offer still on the table, there must still be a few quid knocking around  - which makes our lack of transfer activity in the last couple of weeks mystifying. 

Who knows!

  

[Ska Junkie]

15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

A lot of what you say makes sense but when exactly.

New Financial Rules were announced as due to come into the Championship in April 2022.

Guess what they still haven't arrived.

This time last year in a rather interesting interview on Talksport, the new owner of Hull was on. One part, he was complaining about Parachute Payments but if anything that he couldn't invest more to compete.

Stoke finished midtable in 2021-22..burnt through £39m in cash!!

The PL and EFL need to agree the new distribution mechanism before the new Financial regs come in. This seems no closer than it did a year ago.

Is a joke especially at this level. Wages over 100 pct of turnover.

People have said the bubble.will burst for years though.

I fear ours might this season Mr P.

The need for frugality I, obviously, get but the need to compete to stay at this level should also be taken into account. I would guess we're not worth so much as a L1 club rather than Championship?

Remind me, where is Accrington?

Edited September 1, 2023 by Ska Junkie

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I fear ours might this season Mr P.

The need for frugality I, obviously, get but the need to compete to stay at this level should also be taken into account. I would guess we're not worth so much as a L1 club rather than Championship?

Remind me, where is Accrington?

Oh agreed Ska, about the need to invest a bit to compete. Especially 2 years of hard yards.and heavy lifting and the Scott sale to finish.

I'm thinking we should be fine tbh, especially if NP remains but the squad feels dangerously thin and since about mid July there has been a drastic acceleration of activity/spending in the Championship (but not here). We've tried to remain above it, the balance is too weighted in favour of caution however.

Could he a dull season but not a disastrous one if NP stays. If he goes though hmm.. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Ska Junkie]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Oh agreed Ska, about the need to invest a bit to compete. Especially 2 years of hard yards.and heavy lifting and the Scott sale to finish.

I'm thinking we should be fine tbh, especially if NP remains but the squad feels dangerously thin and since about mid July there has been a drastic acceleration of activity/spending in the Championship (but not here). We've tried to remain above it, the balance is too weighted in favour of caution however.

Could he a dull season but not a disastrous one if NP stays. If he goes though hmm.. 

Spot on Mr P.

Personally, even with Nige at the helm ( I think he's done an admirable job), I fear relegation may be a concern which, clearly, would be a disaster! We're missing creativity meaning we won't score many.

Just hope we've enough I guess.

[Red-Robbo]

15 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I fear ours might this season Mr P.

The need for frugality I, obviously, get but the need to compete to stay at this level should also be taken into account. I would guess we're not worth so much as a L1 club rather than Championship?

Remind me, where is Accrington?

 

Indeed, and also, as supporters, there is a certain gap we've all got very used to that needs to remain. 

[Davefevs]

@Merrick's Marvels agree

It doesn’t make sense does it?

[Ska Junkie]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Merrick's Marvels agree

It doesn’t make sense does it?

Am I missing your point Dave? 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Am I missing your point Dave? 

…that the lack of budget / series of events stated by MM should mean there is some headroom.

[Ska Junkie]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

…that the lack of budget / series of events stated by MM should mean there is some headroom.

Ah, my bad.

[Jerseybean]

Thanks everybody for your comments, it seems reasonable to conclude that there’s a lot of conjecture and conspiracy involved at this moment in time.

What we know as fans I think is that:

SL is seeking new investment in the club/Bristol Sport

BCFC have restructured the wage budget and this is currently at its ceiling

Having edged back from FFP we are proceeding cautiously to avoid any reoccurrence of financial difficulties

As our manager has said consistently, he will only add players if they strengthen the squad

As it stands we have a very thin squad

NP’s current contract expires at the end of the season

NP remains the voice of Bristol City with other senior figures remaining silent

What we perhaps can deduce from this is:

We are likely to see some significant changes in the foreseeable future, either prompted by new investment or a decision, from one party or the other, regarding NP’s future

It is clearly evident that we will need to survive, with the squad we have, at least until January.

As far as I can tell that’s about where we are on deadline day.