PhatWill Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Mickey Bell would be another, Louis Carey another and he's gone maybe the real reasons for his departure are more than contract related !!! Aaron Brown is another departure since BT's appointment. Shaun Taylor was also a player then and not directly involved in the new gaffers backroom team !!! Do you get what I'm saying !!! Steve Phillips, Matty Hill, Danny Coles, Kevin Amankwaah would also have been on the staff but only on the fringes of the first team squad at that time. ← Erm...where do I start! Firstly Bell and Tins are certainly long time friends... Louis Carey made it pretty clear that he left for money reasons...remember??!! Aaron Brown also made it clear it was the money... Shaun Taylor stills holds a key role in Tins' backroom staff. So, no I'm afraid I don't "get what your saying" at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lugger22 Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 I like the thought there is a bit of needle between TD and BT. If TD was brown nosing in person but slagging BT off to team mates out of earshot then that is wrong but at least if its out in the open it gets dealt with! You can't keep everyone happy when you are in a position of authority and have to make big decisions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 I like the thought there is a bit of needle between TD and BT. If TD was brown nosing in person but slagging BT off to team mates out of earshot then that is wrong but at least if its out in the open it gets dealt with! ← I agree. There's nothing worse than a player brown nosing the manager but then slagging him off behind his back... That would be back-stabbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 If it is true that BT isn't popular with some players then that's the best piece of "news" I've read in ages. Anyone think that the Man U players indulge in some sort of love in with Ferguson? No, me neither. As for not commanding respect I fail to see how any player couldn't respect someone who has managed to play to this standard until the age of 36. The secret of management, whether in football or not is to be fair and consistent and it's also a good idea to keep any criticism private, something DW was slated for but which in my opinion he was completely correct to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Sorry, I missed the outcome of this season's 'Bristol City Players' Popularity Contest'. I bow to your superior knowledge, as you seem to have the results to hand. Anyway, what reflected glory would that be? My use of the subjunctive was sloppy. I apologise and make amends. BT WILL bask in the reflected glory of 'his' captain. BT knows that appointing TD gives the impression (true or otherwise) of squad unity. Anything his captain does well reflects well on BT as he gave him the job. Edson, I'm sure you know that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit but surely even your omniscient and omnipresent self cannot deny that TD is far more popular with the fans than BT. Don't kid yourself that the entire squad were popping corks and hanging out the buntings when BT got the job as they were not. However, I'll bow to your superior judgement as you managed to gauge the mood of the squad by watching them train. A rare gift indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 However, I'll bow to your superior judgement as you managed to gauge the mood of the squad by watching them train. A rare gift indeed. ← Well, it's one up on total guesswork and supposition, I would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 My use of the subjunctive was sloppy. I apologise and make amends. BT WILL bask in the reflected glory of 'his' captain. BT knows that appointing TD gives the impression (true or otherwise) of squad unity. Anything his captain does well reflects well on BT as he gave him the job. ← I'd say that he was given the job by previous managers and Brian carried it on. And surely the manager basks in the reflected glory of all his players. He will also die by his sword so making judgements should not be about personal likes and dislikes. It's sometimes amazing to hear the storried about how players haven't spoken to their manager for years. I would be very surprised if it was as bad as this at city and often see the team having a laugh together. Every workplace has it's factions by I do think City's players are all working together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTop Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 It wouldn´t suprize me and if it is true that is disgraceful! I heard that Tommy wouldn´t call Tinnion Gaffer even though BT kept shouting "whats my name"! What has this club come to! :@ ← I think you misheard that tale. It was more likely Tommy asking: "What's my name?" A great player, but recently voted by Nasa's in-house magazine as among the footballers least likely to give up their career after being headhunted as a rocket scientist... It will take a while for all the players to get used to seeing Tinman as the manager after years playing alongside him. The chances are some resent the chance he's been given, and in any 30-odd group of people there will always be differences of opinion and character clashes. That's only natural, and I couldn't give two scratches of a monkey's backside about it provided the players are professional enough to put personal matters aside for a shared cause (remember Sheringham and Cole linking up well for Man Utd despite not even talking ot each other?) They don't have to like Tinman, they just have to have pride in their job and in a work ethic. Good managers realise they're not there to be popular, they are there to get results. Bad managers end up like David Brent. Respect will come if Tinman has aptitude for the job. He'll command it from players and fans alike by making the right decisions. Players would also do well to understand their careers are in his hands. They have to realise sooner or later that if they try sulking or are stupid enough to challenge Tinman head to head there will only be one winner, and it ain't going to be them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Well, it's one up on total guesswork and supposition, I would say. Who said anything about guesswork and supposition? You're the one engaging in guesswork and supposition as you have erroneously assumed that my previous posting was not based on any hard evidence whatsoever. Obviously anyone who states a fact based opinion counter to your own must be making it up as proven by your childish allegation. Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Who said anything about guesswork and supposition? You're the one engaging in guesswork and supposition as you have erroneously assumed that my previous posting was not based on any hard evidence whatsoever. Obviously anyone who states a fact based opinion counter to your own must be making it up as proven by your childish allegation. Priceless. ← I gave my opinion on the mood of the players based on watching them at work. Perhaps you'd be good enough to share where you have picked up your hard evidence. What childish allegation, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunley Legend Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 This has to go down as one of the all-time pathetic threads on this forum. School playground stuff. We've lost one of our first three games yet so many people know (or is it suspect, suppose, guess or not have an effing clue) that there is a full scale mutiny against Tinnion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Well, it's one up on total guesswork and supposition, I would say. I'd say calling someone's (fact-based) statement 'guesswork and supposition' would be a childish allegation. If you don't agree with someone's opinion then that's fair enough but don't resort to baseless assumptions concerning the integrity and honesty of the poster and the post itself. Perhaps a better way of gauging the mood of the players would be to talk to some of them rather than assuming they're all happy whilst training? Evidence? What do you want? Names, dates, photos, etc. Cue pompous reply..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 I'd say calling someone's (fact-based) statement 'guesswork and supposition' would be a childish allegation. If you don't agree with someone's opinion then that's fair enough but don't resort to baseless assumptions concerning the integrity and honesty of the poster and the post itself. ← I said that watching the players train was one up on supposition and guesswork as a way of guaging their mood. I stand by that as a theory. Perhaps a better way of gauging the mood of the players would be to talk to some of them rather than assuming they're all happy whilst training? Talk to them? Blimey, it's a thought I suppose. I'll bear it in mind. Evidence? What do you want? Names, dates, photos, etc. Nah, hearsay is fine, thanks. Cue pompous reply..... Well, rather than pen my own, I'll borrow one, as I don't think I can beat it: If you don't agree with someone's opinion then that's fair enough but don't resort to baseless assumptions concerning the integrity and honesty of the poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 You poor man. I bet you'd argue with your own reflection. I don't think calling you pompous and sarcastic is a baseless assumption - why don't you read your last post. If you don't agree with someone's opinion then that's fair enough but don't resort to baseless assumptions concerning the integrity and honesty of the poster. Thanks for putting that quote in again. Perhaps this time you could read it AND understand it. At least your pompous reply turned up on cue. I look forward to the next one...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 You poor man. I bet you'd argue with your own reflection. I don't think calling you pompous and sarcastic is a baseless assumption - why don't you read your last post. Thanks for putting that quote in again. Perhaps this time you could read it AND understand it. At least your pompous reply turned up on cue. I look forward to the next one...... ← Nah, I'm bored now (I bet you get that a lot). Still, if you ever want to discuss Bristol City rather than perpetuating a character assassination, I'll look forward to it. Bye for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Can only speak of knowing a group of the John Ward promotion squad. I can assure you that BT was far from popular with many of that squad. I also wouldn't be at all surprised if the same doesn't apply within the more experienced members of the current squad. If there is a problem within the current squad of players it needs to be sorted a.s.a.p. ← Would your friends by any chance be amongst those cosy-clubbers whose "mentality ... and their off-the-field habits ... let down" that same promotion squad (and us!)? If so, I reckon the message to them is the same now as it (should) always be - shape up or ship out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Going back to the title of the thread for a moment... From personal experience I have had bosses that I have respected,but not liked very much, and always done a good job for them. On the other had I've had bosses that I have liked but commanded no respect, and have seen them get very little work out of people. Just wonder how that applies to our team? I think everyone is still 'settling' into their new roles. I've had people be promoted over me that have been younger and newer than me, and been happy to work with them. Seemed a bit strange at first but as we were all working to the same cause few problems arose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Nah, I'm bored now (I bet you get that a lot). Short attention span perhaps? Back-pedalling perhaps? Pompous, sarcastic - toi? Still, if you ever want to discuss Bristol City rather than perpetuating a character assassination, I'll look forward to it. I was discussing Bristol City. I think you'll find that you were the one who started the 'character assassination'. You were the one who questioned the validity of my argument not the other way around. I look forward to a good discussion too - I thought that was what the forum was all about, not for dismissing people's opinions with sarcasm and bombast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCNW Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Was it Sun Tzu in 'The Art Of War' who said "Keep your friends close but your enemies even closer"? Furthermore, with TD being far more popular than BT, could the 'Gaffer' be basking in his captain's reflected glory? ← This has indeed become a tedious thread, but I must go back this point about popularity. How can you claim that TD is more popular (and do you mean as a player or as a person) than BT? Is this amongst supporters? This is is a crazy statement; for starters it's like comparing apples with oranges. However, if it's based on genuine service to the club, there's no comparison. If it's based on personality, gawd knows! PS Anyone know if TD still (allegedly) smokes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hairyshamrock Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 I think your right about the respect thing. Tinnion seems to be too sociable with the players even now to command respect. My choice was, and always will be Shaun Taylor for manager (should "Big Col" or "Cheesy Grin Steve" ever be reading) as he has a great coaching manner and a great attitude towards players. I remember when we were in the 1st division and he came back from injury. He gave Carey (then a Junior) a severe rollocking for not marking well enough, which could be heard from the back of the Atyeo. Not 10 minutes later as they walked from the pitch, he had his arm round Carey's shoulder talking him through what would have been a better option. Now tell me when tins has ever shown that level of leadership??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 TD is a local lad who has worked his way up through the ranks to play for the team he supported as a boy. That must engender some kind of kindred spirit with the fans. Seeing a fellow Bristolian playing for City makes one feel enormously proud and consequently serves to make said player very popular. In that regard I still feel TD is more popular than BT all round. I do see TD as being more vital to the future success of the club than BT and would hazard a guess that TD's departure would cause more uproar than BT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 So what your saying is that it's your guess that TD is more popular than BT and not a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Yes, it's a guess, but an educated one. Talking to fellow City fans, listening to conversations at the ground, in the local pubs etc leads me to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 8000 fans turned up to watch Tinmans testimonial, a very good turnout for a match like this, I think that speaks volumes of how highly BT is thought of amongst the fans of BCFC. He has been a model pro on the pitch and that must count for something around the home dressing room, his passion and loyalty to the club has been rewarded by him having his testimonial and the chairman making him the manager of this club. There is no way that SL would have appointed a person like BT as manager of the club if he thought he wouldn't command the respect from the other players, he probably would have spoken to a few about this before appointing him to get some feedback, by this reckoning BT is a very popular figure in the dressing room and most players would realise they either work for their old playing colleague or they could find themselves out of the door pretty sharpish! Whether he has earned respect as a manager from all of them I would guess he probably hasn't yet, that will come when the team start winning games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted August 18, 2004 Admin Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 TD is a local lad who has worked his way up through the ranks to play for the team he supported as a boy. That must engender some kind of kindred spirit with the fans. Seeing a fellow Bristolian playing for City makes one feel enormously proud and consequently serves to make said player very popular. In that regard I still feel TD is more popular than BT all round. ← How about this though..... Aaron Brown is a local lad who has worked his way up through the ranks to play for the team he supported as a boy. That must engender some kind of kindred spirit with the fans. Seeing a fellow Bristolian playing for City makes one feel enormously proud and consequently serves to make said player very popular. In that regard I still feel Aaron Brown is more popular than BT all round. Or maybe not I do see TD as being more vital to the future success of the club than BT and would hazard a guess that TD's departure would cause more uproar than BT's. Likewise Steve Phillips, I wouldn't say that makes him more popular though, necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAGILLA Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 I was talking about TD not AB but I was very disappointed that Brown left City what with him being a local boy as I was with all the other local/academy boys leaving. If City allow or cannot persuade players to stay that they have nurtured then that is cause for worry. AB has the potential to become an outstanding player but it looks like it will be at another club. The point that was originally made by another poster concerned Tinnion's respect (or lack of) from the players which then led onto TD being more popular than BT. BT hasn't always been the model pro and hasn't always been popular with the fans. Tommy is vital to the future success of City. TD has consistently been one of City's best, if not the best, performers over the last few seasons. He was by far the best player on the pitch at Cardiff. When he hasn't been playing, City don't seem to function as well. BT may well be popular with some fans but, in my opinion, TD is more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFCNW Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 I was talking about TD not AB but I was very disappointed that Brown left City what with him being a local boy as I was with all the other local/academy boys leaving. If City allow or cannot persuade players to stay that they have nurtured then that is cause for worry. AB has the potential to become an outstanding player but it looks like it will be at another club. The point that was originally made by another poster concerned Tinnion's respect (or lack of) from the players which then led onto TD being more popular than BT. BT hasn't always been the model pro and hasn't always been popular with the fans. Tommy is vital to the future success of City. TD has consistently been one of City's best, if not the best, performers over the last few seasons. He was by far the best player on the pitch at Cardiff. When he hasn't been playing, City don't seem to function as well. BT may well be popular with some fans but, in my opinion, TD is more so. ← But really, popularity and birthplace (do you think we held back on Jacki cos he was Polish?) are of little merit. Can they do the business is what counts, and in both cases it's clearly 'yes'. Simple as that. The 'Aaron Brown' reply makes this point nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zookeeper Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 BT hasn't always been the model pro and hasn't always been popular with the fans. Tommy is vital to the future success of City. TD has consistently been one of City's best, if not the best, performers over the last few seasons. He was by far the best player on the pitch at Cardiff. When he hasn't been playing, City don't seem to function as well. BT may well be popular with some fans but, in my opinion, TD is more so. ← Sorry but to say Brian hasn't always been a model pro in an argument pro Tommy is pushing it a little. Personally I prefer Tommy to Brian but believe while both are very important to the clubs future neither are vital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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