FBC - do we want to get promoted?

[Davefevs]

@headhunter started a thread, based on the question….or are we happy to tread water in the Champ.

Yes, staying in the Championship is not what I aspire to…but that assumes we have some semblance of investment from whoever is in charge.  I want promotion, or at least a tilt at it, because it’s not easy to achieve.

If we are now expected to be sustainable / profit making, the answer is very different.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Davefevs

[Jeez]

Whilst it would be a fantastic moment to win promotion, I just want to see the club being a competitive force week in week out.

Sounds odd, but as we’ve haven’t troubled the playoffs since 2008 there’s not much basis that it’s going to happen anytime soon. 

Until we start seeing the consistency required for a promotion run, I wouldn’t even think about it.

[CodeRed]

Of course I'd like to see us in the PL - but competing. I was lucky, and old enough!, to see us win promotion in 1976 and by and large we were competitive. We didn't need to spend much back then and only bought Hunter, Cormack, and Garland during the first season for comparatively very modest fees. Later we signed Joe Royle etc but he was coming to the end of his career.

Today I'm not sure we have the recruitment structure, systems, and experienced DoF - not to mention the owners commitment - to invest wisely and kick on like Brighton Brentford and to some extent Wolves who relied heavily on Jorge Mendes to recruit. It pains me to say it but I think other than the desire to trouser the cash I don't think we have made any credible plans to push on should we - as SL said - get lucky.

[cidercity1987]

Same old backward Bristol City I am afraid.

We should aspire to be the next Brighton, very similar Cities in many ways and really harnessing the powerful local business community to our advantage.

Instead we are supposed to be grateful competing with little towns like Blackburn, non-entity places like Stoke and the 10th club of London or something

[Red-Robbo]

Actually, as you know, once you get there even if you aren't competitive, you've elevated to a different level if and when you're relegated. Some clubs do not feel the benefit but they have to be small in the first place or exceptionally badly (or corruptly) run. I'd like to see us there and that does mean the owner going for it rather than thinking he can maintain the only Championship club that balances the books. 

[Mr Chappers]

Or we could ‘go for it’ and take the well worn path to League One…

[Mr Popodopolous]

We currently have an abundance of caution and stagnation may result and the best manager we have had in SL's time, in my time (25 years)..the strategy now the FFP seem to have been cleared makes no sense.

Granted if we are happy to build a base for a while at Championship level but failing that...current strategy is excessively cautious and detrimental to our chances IMO.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Super]

I don't get why you would bother if you didn't want to get promoted.

[frenchred]

11 minutes ago, Mr Chappers said:

Or we could ‘go for it’ and take the well worn path to League One…

Really? 

Wow

[Bristol Oil Services]

7 minutes ago, Super said:

I don't get why you would bother if you didn't want to get promoted.

To build a "nest egg" ?

[Lack of Action Man]

25 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Actually, as you know, once you get there even if you aren't competitive, you've elevated to a different level if and when you're relegated. Some clubs do not feel the benefit but they have to be small in the first place or exceptionally badly (or corruptly) run. I'd like to see us there and that does mean the owner going for it rather than thinking he can maintain the only Championship club that balances the books. 

I’m in agreement with your view on this.

As I’ve alluded to in other threads as well, if we aren’t going to target promotion (I.e. the investment isn’t forthcoming to create a squad that is good enough), then I want us to do everything we can to make AG a fortress.
 

Even after some time to reflect I still feel our home form simply isn’t good enough regardless of our overall aims/ambitions in this division.

[Dr Balls]

Unlike the fans, I don’t think SL really wants promotion any more. Or certainly not at the cost that it’s likely to involve. Let’s be honest, football’s not really his game and he’s not that worried about achieving success as long as he’s not having to shell out enormous amounts. He’s got the ground and will soon have the rest of the “Sports Quarter”, which will be his legacy. I believe that the bricks, mortar and money still interest him more than football, especially since FFP and parachute payments really skewed promotion towards those who had been relegated from the Premier League. So I expect us to keep selling our best players and getting no closer to promotion for the foreseeable future, unless a new owner comes in.

 

[Simon bristol]

I think covid, and the failure and cost of the lj/ ashton years has killed off any love that SL once had, and paying out the wages for some of the shite weve signed must have been pretty galling, especially given the list of clubs who have gone past us and played in the premier leqgue.

[BS4 on Tour...]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@headhunter started a thread, based on the question….or are we happy to tread water in the Champ.

Yes, staying in the Championship is not what I aspire to…but that assumes we have some semblance of investment from whoever is in charge.  I want promotion, or at least a tilt at it, because it’s not easy to achieve.

If we are now expected to be sustainable / profit making, the answer is very different.

FBC? Apologies if I’ve missed something here - but in the places I’ve worked FBC is full blood count - as I said, sorry Dave but what does it mean here?!

[CodeRed]

5 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

FBC? Apologies if I’ve missed something here - but in the places I’ve worked FBC is full blood count - as I said, sorry Dave but what does it mean here?!

Forever Bristol City podcast ?

[Baba Yaga]

I think once the novelty wears off the prem might not be so enjoyable. Have spoken to fans of clubs like Swansea who have done what we would like and they are quite happy being back in this league as the days out are more enjoyable when there is a more realistic chance of getting a win.

However lets be honest it's a bit embarrassing that the club hasn't been in the top flight for so long, so yes of course the aim is getting into the prem one day and hopefully we can become an established PL side and get much more than the 9 seasons in the top division that the club has had in its entire history.

Actually getting there when you don't have parachute money or massive crowds will require patience and a bit of luck so I agree with SL in that respect, as far as I'm aware he isn't expecting the club to be profit making, and obviously that isn't realistic in the championship where the have nots like us have owners who bail out the clubs most seasons to the tune of at least 15 million.

[CodeRed]

29 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Unlike the fans, I don’t think SL really wants promotion any more. Or certainly not at the cost that it’s likely to involve. Let’s be honest, football’s not really his game and he’s not that worried about achieving success as long as he’s not having to shell out enormous amounts. He’s got the ground and will soon have the rest of the “Sports Quarter”, which will be his legacy. I believe that the bricks, mortar and money still interest him more than football, especially since FFP and parachute payments really skewed promotion towards those who had been relegated from the Premier League. So I expect us to keep selling our best players and getting no closer to promotion for the foreseeable future, unless a new owner comes in.

 

I think he'd like success but he's become disillusioned by the financial side of football, agent demands, the sheer costs of wages, the players that are happy to sign a lucrative contract and then equally happy to run that contract down (Diedhiou eg), the constant one way call on his pocket with - in his eyes - no sense of gratitude or loyalty in exchange for the sums he's shelling out. He alluded to this in an interview when asked what he'd learnt in football and he said " never fall in love with your players, in the end they think only of themselves despite the wages and support given to them".

[Mr Popodopolous]

33 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

I think covid, and the failure and cost of the lj/ ashton years has killed off any love that SL once had, and paying out the wages for some of the shite weve signed must have been pretty galling, especially given the list of clubs who have gone past us and played in the premier leqgue.

Wonder if Scott going was the final disillusionment for him.

Compare his end of April interview he was buoyant, talking Scott staying, enjoying his football- playing with Conway and young academy players etc.

Whereas his most recent pronouncement he sounded pretty downbeat, resigned, nest egg and generally unenthused.

Scott was never likely to stay but I wonder if he believed he might.. 

[BasSavage88]

45 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

I think covid, and the failure and cost of the lj/ ashton years has killed off any love that SL once had, and paying out the wages for some of the shite weve signed must have been pretty galling, especially given the list of clubs who have gone past us and played in the premier leqgue.

This plus our fans are mainly placid, there is no expectation of anything better than what we have.

[CodeRed]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wonder if Scott going was the final disillusionment for him.

Compare his end of April interview he was buoyant, talking Scott staying, enjoying his football- playing with Conway and young academy players etc.

Whereas his most recent pronouncement he sounded pretty downbeat, resigned, nest egg and generally unenthused.

Scott was never likely to stay but I wonder if he believed he might.. 

Not sure about that, he was determined to sell him, naming the £25m asking price in every interview, effectively saying 'come and buy him'. He was burned by previous players running down their contracts and his overwhelming priority was not to let £25m worth of asset turn to zero.

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Not sure about that, he was determined to sell him, naming the £25m asking price in every interview, effectively saying 'come and buy him'. He was burned by previous players running down their contracts and his overwhelming priority was not to let £25m worth of asset turn to zero.

Some truth but he sounded quite hopeful in April..could have been false hope.

[Grey Fox]

Without at least the ambition to challenge for promotion, what is the point?

In my opinion , Uncle Steve has had enough of the unfairness of the parachute system, and therefore does not intend to fund the club to the same level as previously. He hopes to cover our annual running costs deficit through player sales. 
The current side are an average Championship team (won 3 , drawn 3, lost 3), who will probably end up somewhere between 10 th and 15th . Nigel Pearson can do better, so will walk, and the only other question for this season will be if it’s Bell , Knight or Conway that gets sold first.

To continue in this way can only mean that , at some point L1 will be the destination.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, Jeez said:

Whilst it would be a fantastic moment to win promotion, I just want to see the club being a competitive force week in week out.

Sounds odd, but as we’ve haven’t troubled the playoffs since 2008 there’s not much basis that it’s going to happen anytime soon. 

Until we start seeing the consistency required for a promotion run, I wouldn’t even think about it.

I think pretty much every game this season we have been competitive?

[Dr Balls]

10 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Without at least the ambition to challenge for promotion, what is the point?

In my opinion , Uncle Steve has had enough of the unfairness of the parachute system, and therefore does not intend to fund the club to the same level as previously. He hopes to cover our annual running costs deficit through player sales. 
The current side are an average Championship team (won 3 , drawn 3, lost 3), who will probably end up somewhere between 10 th and 15th . Nigel Pearson can do better, so will walk, and the only other question for this season will be if it’s Bell , Knight or Conway that gets sold first.

To continue in this way can only mean that , at some point L1 will be the destination.

Really hope that last paragraph doesjt turn out to be correct. He came, he spent an absolute fortune, and other than a run to a League Cup semi-final achieved nothing else, despite being backed more than any previous or subsequent manager.

[REDOXO]

2 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Same old backward Bristol City I am afraid.

We should aspire to be the next Brighton, very similar Cities in many ways and really harnessing the powerful local business community to our advantage.

Instead we are supposed to be grateful competing with little towns like Blackburn, non-entity places like Stoke and the 10th club of London or something

Stephen Lansdown is the owner right?

Unfortunately Bristol City Council is backward to a large extent, while Brightons was it became more helpful to the club. 
 

If you want anything in Bristol to compete and be better be careful who we all vote for!

[Jeez]

6 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think pretty much every game this season we have been competitive?

Exactly, this season is far more enjoyable & in games last season.

Quite happy to be a competitive force in this Div. Bit more consistency would good tho 

PL would be great but won’t get excited until we see some serious intent & direction from the club.

Stopped buying the clubs PL shtick a while ago.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Jeez said:

Exactly, this season is far more enjoyable & in games last season.

Quite happy to be a competitive force in this Div. Bit more consistency would good tho 

PL would be great but won’t get excited until we see some serious intent & direction from the club.

Stopped buying the clubs PL shtick a while ago.

This is fair, after the darkness some dawn with improvements year on year...first the shining light Scott, then Semenyo back from injury and yes that front 3 in 2021-22. We are in general a reasonable Championship side.

It is just very frustrating that we have slammed the breaks on when we now have a reasonable platform or at least some stability on which to build.

[W-S-M Seagull]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is fair, after the darkness some dawn with improvements year on year...first the shining light Scott, then Semenyo back from injury and yes that front 3 in 2021-22. We are in general a reasonable Championship side.

It is just very frustrating that we have slammed the breaks on when we now have a reasonable platform or at least some stability on which to build.

My mates have been taking the piss because we threw away a 2 goal lead but my response was that whilst it was disappointing to lose, I actually really enjoyed the game. The last two home games we have scored 6 goals at home and played some lovely attacking games football. We've come a very long way from the dark days of not even being able to get a shot on target at home. 

Maybe at 2-2 we could have shut up shop and played for the draw like we did at Leicester, but I much prefer that we went all out for the win. I'd rather lose trying to win than not trying to win at all. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wonder if Scott going was the final disillusionment for him.

Compare his end of April interview he was buoyant, talking Scott staying, enjoying his football- playing with Conway and young academy players etc.

Whereas his most recent pronouncement he sounded pretty downbeat, resigned, nest egg and generally unenthused.

Scott was never likely to stay but I wonder if he believed he might.. 

No, SL wanted to sell him.

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

Not sure about that, he was determined to sell him, naming the £25m asking price in every interview, effectively saying 'come and buy him'. He was burned by previous players running down their contracts and his overwhelming priority was not to let £25m worth of asset turn to zero.

Yep, you can be resigned to selling a player, and then think - how can we work this to our advantage?

Instead, SL chose to sell him and not allow re-investment.  Nobody was saying Nige / Tins should be given all of it.  Nobody was even suggesting spending a half of it, a fifth of it.  Just one, maybe two astute signings.  SL made it more difficult.  Why?

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

No, SL wanted to sell him.

Yep, you can be resigned to selling a player, and then think - how can we work this to our advantage?

Instead, SL chose to sell him and not allow re-investment.  Nobody was saying Nige / Tins should be given all of it.  Nobody was even suggesting spending a half of it, a fifth of it.  Just one, maybe two astute signings.  SL made it more difficult.  Why?

Was he lying then, or at least being economical with the truth in the late April interview pre Burnley?

Setting out a negotiating stance?

Secretly resigned with a dash of wishful thinking?

Edited October 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous