The difference between the top teams

[1960maaan]

5 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

I don’t disagree that regularly facing better opposition can improve players, plus there are those who may have been found a bit wanting at Premier League level but who are more than adequate at Championship level. I think the latter applies more to Leeds than Leicester. Which as stated means, even before the parachute payments, these clubs should have a significant advantage over the rest of the Championship teams.

A big difference Parachute payments can make, is being able to hold on to high earners, meaning no rush to offload (even if there wasn't a relegation clause) . Leicester have a squad that should be competitive at lower Prem level, higher if you add Barnes and Maddison . Leeds staying up for a year meant they had chance to build on a promotion winning squad and that extra years experience. Where it might get interesting is if they don't go straight back up. 

Southampton will be interesting. I thought they looked out of their depth last year , and losing better players ( 5 at £15M or more each ) and only investing £20M of £180M income , looks like a consolidation strategy rather than a concerted push to go straight back up. January may see a change of course. That said I think they will improve a bit.

That shows the disparity between clubs. Southampton have net transfer income of nearly £162M , add PP , which I believe could be worth around £120M over 3 years if they don't go up. That is a massive advantage 

[mozo]

I'm definitely guilty of not appreciating the fact that that we're a solid mid-table side now, which is an improvement on 3 years ago. 

I guess when you get to the middle reaches of this league you're agonisingly close to the playoff places, which is your chance of the dream ticket. 

But yeah this team is crying out for more quality in execution to be up the top.

[Davefevs]

16 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

So, they spend money and they use the loan market astutely?

There is a big difference between us and Ipswich, and the rightful comparison between us and them is trajectory.  Financial trajectory.  The other difference is McKenna.

Their fans may rue Marcus Evans for being at the helm when they went down and for a period when they did go down, but he was “tight” and it meant when Gamechanger 2020 came onboard they could spend.  See figs below in bold for Evans reign.  Firstly under Cook and Ashton and his favoured agents, which went wrong, then under McKenna (and Ashton) but to a playing identity.  That first season Ashton went on record saying they needed players quickly so he’d use his contacts.

Working backwards from 2022 accounts, £12m, 2021 - £6m, 2020 -£5m, £3m, 2019 - £5m, 2018 - £4m.

Never a threat of FFP, nor SCMP in League One…basically scope to invest - if they wanted.  Gamechanger did want to.

Don’t get me wrong I’m still surprised by how well they are doing, but they are a big(ish) club, much bigger attendances than us, they don’t just have wiggle room to keep momentum going, they have huge headroom.

.

They pushed that headroom last season under SCMP and at one point Plymouth and Wednesday must’ve given them a few nervous nights sleep about going into the lottery of the playoffs.  But they finished second.

Wednesday also went up but have no money, still fighting back from FFP issues and a basket-case owner.  No wonder they’re struggling.

Plymouth are trying to grow organically and through good recruitment, fair play to them.  But they aren’t Ipswich.

Back to us.

A better comparison would be us in 2015/16, but even then we were servicing big losses for us.  £8m losses both 14/15  and 13/14.  And we all know what happened in summer 2015.  @Mr Popodopolous will chime in at this point about one year FFP cycle in 15/16, but we’ve batted this back and forth many times, about could we afford Gray and Maguire, but as I’ve explained we wouldn’t have then recruited the players we did, so they weren’t extra.  Not having a go Mr P, just don’t want to derail the point I’m making.

The comparison of us and Ipswich now is a mile apart.  We are at the start of our journey, despite coming up, they have a big advantage over us, pains me to say it.

They also have an ownership group prepared to cover losses to “give it a go”!

Ours has (effectively) pulled the plug….eff me….we are going make a profit this year.  Well at least the accounts will look good.  We can beat Ipswich in the Auditors League instead!

***In some respects I should’ve used Sunderland last season as a team that show you can come up and do well, but sometimes I’m a bit pig-headed, and I thought they had a superior squad to Ipswich***

Ramble, rant, moan, over.

[chinapig]

54 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

They also have an ownership group prepared to cover losses to “give it a go”!

Sure but have they got a nest egg? Losers!

[Lack of Action Man]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

They also have an ownership group prepared to cover losses to “give it a go”!

Ours has (effectively) pulled the plug….eff me….we are going make a profit this year.  Well at least the accounts will look good.  We can beat Ipswich in the Auditors League instead!

***In some respects I should’ve used Sunderland last season as a team that show you can come up and do well, but sometimes I’m a bit pig-headed, and I thought they had a superior squad to Ipswich***

Ramble, rant, moan, over.

This really is the crux of my frustration with city now.

The majority shareholder financed the club spunking millions during the MA/LJ era on tat. The very same individual is now seemingly forcing us into footballing financial austerity measures. 
 

Why, oh why, (without getting into a long winded discussion about FFP or P&S) must we operate at such polarised ends of the spectrum? Why can’t there be some semblance of consistent financial backing season to season to ensure the club moves steadily forwards? 
 

Otherwise we run the risk of repeating the typically City cycle of spending a few years in the Championship doing (largely) little of note, gradually selling off our best players and replacing them with bang average ones, before getting relegated back to L1 yet again. 
 

 

[1964w]

23 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Most of the top teams manage to keep many of the team that played Prem football, the previous season. 
I would say Leicester had more quality, they also have players who have recently been scoring in the Prem. Even though they had to sell their best players . 
Leeds only sold one of their best players, and spent £35M . I thought they were good, but the finishing was poor , that might keep them from the Autos .
They will both have players getting 7/8s regularly, that consistency , and more depth of squad, will keep them challenging.

Leeds sold Adams for £23m & Rodrigo for £3m.

Sinisterra, Harrison, Kristensen, Koch Wober, Roca, Llorente & Aaronson have all left Leeds on some ridiculous loan deal clause, they couldn't wait to get out of our club like rats leaving a sinking ship.so effectively they are still our players. 

Sinisterra threatened to sue us as we desperately attempted to hold to him.

Our fans don't want them back!  

So apart from Meslier, Struijk, Summerville & the injured Gnonto, we've had to rebuild our squad with shrewd signings.

Ampadu, Rodon (loan), Piroe, Kamara, Byram, Gruve, Darlow & Spence (only played 10 mins, Injured) plus Anthony on loan (in exchange for Sinisterra) On top of all that we have our 17yo young star Archie Gray who was playing in the U21's last season, plus Georginio Rutter whom we paid £37m, who seemed a ridiculous dud signing at the price, to be fair to him, he rarely featured but looked more like a League One player than a PL footballer. 

This season, his career is rejuvenated & has become the darling of ER, a big strong lad who glides past defenders with ease & has a sublime passing range. I reckon he has created over twenty chances, sadly many of them not converted.

Ampadu, Rodon & Rutter are my favourites, they are consistently good.

 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

I am bit confused by SL. Okies with Semenyou & Scott's selling. I really do not understand this 'nest egg' idea by SL. Next egg for who, what, where, why, and when ? Surely SL gets the need of NP's to recruit players as the squad needs strengthening. Is SL really putting making a profit before football need ? Or is he really preparing for the sale of the club? 

I think I have stated this before in other forum topics. But there seems seems to be no forward thinking that's putting the team first . 

I am really worried . I do not want a foreign ownership what ever the success they can buy . I could not afford premiership ticket prices anyway.

I am a red till I dead fan been going to the gate since early 70's, ridden the ups and downs home & away and very proud to be a red. But I feel we are on the edge of something terrible. And we might be about to lose our club. Accountants running football it's all wrong . The game has become secondary to money .

It's truly a ****** up world 

[SecretSam]

On 07/10/2023 at 20:44, Cidre Monita said:

If only we didn’t keep selling our best players. Imagine us with Scott and Semenyo in the team today…

If only there weren't parachute payments

[Davefevs]

14 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

This really is the crux of my frustration with city now.

The majority shareholder financed the club spunking millions during the MA/LJ era on tat. The very same individual is now seemingly forcing us into footballing financial austerity measures. 
 

Why, oh why, (without getting into a long winded discussion about FFP or P&S) must we operate at such polarised ends of the spectrum? Why can’t there be some semblance of consistent financial backing season to season to ensure the club moves steadily forwards? 
 

Otherwise we run the risk of repeating the typically City cycle of spending a few years in the Championship doing (largely) little of note, gradually selling off our best players and replacing them with bang average ones, before getting relegated back to L1 yet again. 
 

 

Yep.  I don’t think anyone with a bit of a clue thought Nige would get the lot, but one or two players to improve on what we have in the squad, e.g. another Knight, or another McCrorie.

I just can’t wait for SL’s next comms, whether from him directly or someone else, probably Gavin Marshall.  I have no probs with Gavin, met him several times.  But it will be interesting to hear what the next top-down Comms is.  Because I feel massively let down as it stands.  That’s not me being entitled, far from it, just feels like SL does what he likes, and then says “tough, it’s my money” type stuff.

[Swede]

On 07/10/2023 at 21:06, petehinton said:

I wouldn’t point to them as a North Star just yet…. They’ll be losing money hand over fist (so again, money), and they’re still proving themselves. Incredible start no doubt about that, but let’s wait and see what happens when they hit a sticky patch, or if/when McKenna goes. 

There will always be exceptions to the rule [Cov & Luton last season & possibly Ipswich this season] but the financial disparity is what's ruining football. Leeds, as an example, last season, would have had a lot of financial resources to easily compete as a mid table Premier League team, failed and got relegated. Fast forward to this season & with their parachute payments, should have more than enough financial resources to to go back up automatically. Its as if they are in our league but not financially whereas the rest of us have to just suck it up.

I have loved the game of football for over 50 years but I am fast losing my love for the game. This financial inequality makes the Championship such an unfair league.