The difference between the top teams

[BS3_RED]

And the rest

 

They just have that little bit more class with the ball.

 

I thought we played well on the whole against a team that are starting to look like they are getting it together and will be in the mix for automatic promotion.

A good test and one in previous years we would have lost our heads after they took the lead and came at us

 Now for the drive home. Safe travels for all the very loud fans today.

 

[Cidre Monita]

3 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

And the rest

 

They just have that little bit more class with the ball.

 

I thought we played well on the whole against a team that are starting to look like they are getting it together and will be in the mix for automatic promotion.

A good test and one in previous years we would have lost our heads after they took the lead and came at us

 Now for the drive home. Safe travels for all the very loud fans today.

 

If only we didn’t keep selling our best players. Imagine us with Scott and Semenyo in the team today…

[Fuber]

10 minutes ago, Cidre Monita said:

If only we didn’t keep selling our best players. Imagine us with Scott and Semenyo in the team today…

Blame lies squarely with the owner. And yes I'm aware of FFP.

[petehinton]

The difference is probably around £14m on Piroe, £7m on Ampadu, £5m on Kamara, god knows whatever loan fee and wages on Antony, Ayling/Cooper/Bamford 50+ odd Prem appearances each…and god knows however much they paid for Dan James (£20m?), imagine a decent chunk on Meslier too. and they can afford to keep/sign them all at this level, no problem.

Whilst almost half of our starting 11 + subs that came on we didn’t even pay fees for. 

It’s a boring rhetoric, but the gap between sides with parachute payments, especially those in their first season post relegation, and the rest of the league is so so much bigger than people think. 

[Lack of Action Man]

7 minutes ago, petehinton said:

The difference is probably around £14m on Piroe, £7m on Ampadu, £5m on Kamara, god knows whatever loan fee and wages on Antony, Ayling/Cooper/Bamford 50+ odd Prem appearances each…and god knows however much they paid for Dan James (£20m?), imagine a decent chunk on Meslier too. and they can afford to keep/sign them all at this level, no problem.

Whilst almost half of our starting 11 + subs that came on we didn’t even pay fees for. 

It’s a boring rhetoric, but the gap between sides with parachute payments, especially those in their first season post relegation, and the rest of the league is so so much bigger than people think. 

It is clear that parachute payments make a huge difference, but what must we change in order to compete against the likes of Ipswich?

[petehinton]

1 minute ago, OddBallJim said:

It is clear that parachute payments make a huge difference, but what must we change in order to compete against the likes of Ipswich?

I wouldn’t point to them as a North Star just yet…. They’ll be losing money hand over fist (so again, money), and they’re still proving themselves. Incredible start no doubt about that, but let’s wait and see what happens when they hit a sticky patch, or if/when McKenna goes. 

[pongo88]

There was a thread created a few days ago entitled “What do we need for top 6”. There were a few options such as forward, midfielder etc but the answer is simple, assuming it refers to this season, - a £20m+ transfer budget in January and a total revamp to the internally imposed wage budget. It’s not going to happen, for obvious reasons, so Nigel has to keep working with young players and “bargain” lower league signings. That’s the difference between City and the top teams. Maybe, in a couple of years, if the academy produces some more players, if Nigel gets a contract extension if we get lucky with the bargain signings , if the wind blows in the right direction the miracle might happen 

[Lack of Action Man]

20 minutes ago, petehinton said:

I wouldn’t point to them as a North Star just yet…. They’ll be losing money hand over fist (so again, money), and they’re still proving themselves. Incredible start no doubt about that, but let’s wait and see what happens when they hit a sticky patch, or if/when McKenna goes. 

Times like this I wish the forum had a 'Remind Me' function bot. Be interesting to pick this discussion up later in the season.

[Bedred31]

22 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

It is clear that parachute payments make a huge difference, but what must we change in order to compete against the likes of Ipswich?

Looking at Ipswich, they’ve undoubtedly spent more on incoming players than us(3.5 m declared, 4 signings undeclared), they’ve got loans from Chelsea, Spurs and Man U and they haven’t had to sell their best player. It’s really not a fairy tale.

[Lack of Action Man]

Just now, Bedred31 said:

Looking at Ipswich, they’ve undoubtedly spent more on incoming players than us(3.5 m declared, 4 signings undeclared), they’ve got loans from Chelsea, Spurs and Man U and they haven’t had to sell their best player. It’s really not a fairy tale.

So, they spend money and they use the loan market astutely?

[Bedred31]

7 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

So, they spend money and they use the loan market astutely?

Quite, although with Swiss Tony signing the cheques, only a brave man would sign it off as ‘astute’. 

[Lack of Action Man]

2 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

Quite, although with Swiss Tony signing the cheques, only a brave man would sign it off as ‘astute’. 

Good point, also - I like the Fast Show reference.

[Simon bristol]

59 minutes ago, Cidre Monita said:

If only we didn’t keep selling our best players. Imagine us with Scott and Semenyo in the team today…

Yes, by definition we cant afford to sign players like that, those 2 with a fit conway through the middle would be a real handful, but now they are gone to finance the next round of questionable signings.

[Ivorguy]

42 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

There was a thread created a few days ago entitled “What do we need for top 6”. There were a few options such as forward, midfielder etc but the answer is simple, assuming it refers to this season, - a £20m+ transfer budget in January and a total revamp to the internally imposed wage budget. It’s not going to happen, for obvious reasons, so Nigel has to keep working with young players and “bargain” lower league signings. That’s the difference between City and the top teams. Maybe, in a couple of years, if the academy produces some more players, if Nigel gets a contract extension if we get lucky with the bargain signings , if the wind blows in the right direction the miracle might happen 

And I might win the lottery !

[1960maaan]

Most of the top teams manage to keep many of the team that played Prem football, the previous season. 
I would say Leicester had more quality, they also have players who have recently been scoring in the Prem. Even though they had to sell their best players . 
Leeds only sold one of their best players, and spent £35M . I thought they were good, but the finishing was poor , that might keep them from the Autos .
They will both have players getting 7/8s regularly, that consistency , and more depth of squad, will keep them challenging.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Leicester going down...that is genuinely quite a mystery.

Would Maresca have taken that squad down is an interesting if impossible to know question. They needed a bit of a refresh but 5th, 5th, 8th, FA Cup winners, European semi final...

18th and relegated!

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

1 hour ago, OddBallJim said:

It is clear that parachute payments make a huge difference, but what must we change in order to compete against the likes of Ipswich?

Ipswich will fall away towards Christmas don't fret.  They're yet to play us, it will be an interesting game.

[Grey Fox]

Talking to some Leeds fans after the match, they all felt we were the best they’ve seen at Elland Road this season. They were being genuine, not patronising.

We will be OK , but without Scott , a top half finish is the best we can hope for, injuries and fatigue (for a small squad) may scupper that.

[ZiderEyed]

8 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

Ipswich will fall away towards Christmas don't fret.  They're yet to play us, it will be an interesting game.

Hope we absolutely **** the inbred Suffolk horse-fingerers

Guillotine ready on Palmyra for Mark Ashton win, lose or draw?

[Dr Balls]

36 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Leicester going down...that is genuinely quite a mystery.

Would Maresca have taken that squad down is an interesting if impossible to know question. They needed a bit of a refresh but 5th, 5th, 8th, FA Cup winners, European semi final...

18th and relegated!

 

39 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Most of the top teams manage to keep many of the team that played Prem football, the previous season. 
I would say Leicester had more quality, they also have players who have recently been scoring in the Prem. Even though they had to sell their best players . 
Leeds only sold one of their best players, and spent £35M . I thought they were good, but the finishing was poor , that might keep them from the Autos .
They will both have players getting 7/8s regularly, that consistency , and more depth of squad, will keep them challenging.

Leicester missed Vardy’s goals last season, Maddison was injured for a large part of the season, plus the loss of Kasper Schmeicel and some central defence woes really did for them.

As for holding onto their best players over the summer, I would suggest that Leicester lost 3 of their best players from midfield in terms of Maddison, Tielemans and Barnes over the summer. Now that trio would really destroy teams in the Championship!

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

46 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Hope we absolutely **** the inbred Suffolk horse-fingerers

Guillotine ready on Palmyra for Mark Ashton win, lose or draw?

**** me that was strong.

[Dredd]

The difference? Lots of lovely Premier League money in the most part. It's a league of haves and have nots. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

To some extent although we could still spend more than we have this summer without jeopardising ourselves.

However on a financial note, starting point for the 3 relegated sides is an advantage of £44m in allowable losses then a £35-40m gap in Parachute Payments vs Solidarity Payments?

[ZiderEyed]

14 minutes ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

**** me that was strong.

LOGs bringing the baler twine

[SydneyCity]

I’ve had this discussion with my brother a few times recently. I personally don’t think we’re a good enough footballing side. We tend to panic under pressure and revert to whacking it, or messing up simple passes or crosses. We need to be more comfortable on the ball. My brother somewhat disagrees - he thinks we’re a couple of creative midfielders away from competing at the top.

[cidered abroad]

17 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

I’ve had this discussion with my brother a few times recently. I personally don’t think we’re a good enough footballing side. We tend to panic under pressure and revert to whacking it, or messing up simple passes or crosses. We need to be more comfortable on the ball. My brother somewhat disagrees - he thinks we’re a couple of creative midfielders away from competing at the top.

You and brother are both correct. Defensively we are ok in getting the ball but unable to play ourselves out from defence if the other side presses us.

And in midfield we have hard workers but not the top quality "Tin Opener" that creates the chances for the striking department.

[Guest]

Early in season but Liec/Ipswich look pretty much nailed on to go up with one from Leeds/Norwich or Brum (big strong side) to join them.

Mid table for us if we can get through the next window without selling Bell/Conway, not going no-where until the Lansdowns go somewhere.

Concerning that they dont seem too bothered about keeping NP but maybe NP wouldnt be too bothered either if he had to put his feet up and retire with his family given the restraints he is under, premiership is a while away for us atm.

[1960maaan]

8 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

 

Leicester missed Vardy’s goals last season, Maddison was injured for a large part of the season, plus the loss of Kasper Schmeicel and some central defence woes really did for them.

As for holding onto their best players over the summer, I would suggest that Leicester lost 3 of their best players from midfield in terms of Maddison, Tielemans and Barnes over the summer. Now that trio would really destroy teams in the Championship!

I meant as as a squad that played in the Prem, most teams only lose small percentage. 
I think I deleted part of my post when editing.

Leicester lost 4 players , one only played 10 games. They spent £40M and made a profit of £60M which added to a squad of players with Prem experience.  That was what I was trying to get at, yes they lost some top players ( Maddison & Barnes, the other was a 27 YO RB ), but 4 players out of a Premier League Squad is still a good base to build on, specially being able to spend £44M to fill the gaps.

Leeds only lost one player of real value and spent that income plus on replacements( £30M+).

Just having those players, play at a higher level for a year would improve them, yes they may sell the stars, but with the rest of the squads experience I would suggest that is an advantage  

[Dr Balls]

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I meant as as a squad that played in the Prem, most teams only lose small percentage. 
I think I deleted part of my post when editing.

Leicester lost 4 players , one only played 10 games. They spent £40M and made a profit of £60M which added to a squad of players with Prem experience.  That was what I was trying to get at, yes they lost some top players ( Maddison & Barnes, the other was a 27 YO RB ), but 4 players out of a Premier League Squad is still a good base to build on, specially being able to spend £44M to fill the gaps.

Leeds only lost one player of real value and spent that income plus on replacements( £30M+).

Just having those players, play at a higher level for a year would improve them, yes they may sell the stars, but with the rest of the squads experience I would suggest that is an advantage  

I don’t disagree that regularly facing better opposition can improve players, plus there are those who may have been found a bit wanting at Premier League level but who are more than adequate at Championship level. I think the latter applies more to Leeds than Leicester. Which as stated means, even before the parachute payments, these clubs should have a significant advantage over the rest of the Championship teams.

[italian dave]

12 hours ago, petehinton said:

The difference is probably around £14m on Piroe, £7m on Ampadu, £5m on Kamara, god knows whatever loan fee and wages on Antony, Ayling/Cooper/Bamford 50+ odd Prem appearances each…and god knows however much they paid for Dan James (£20m?), imagine a decent chunk on Meslier too. and they can afford to keep/sign them all at this level, no problem.

Whilst almost half of our starting 11 + subs that came on we didn’t even pay fees for. 

It’s a boring rhetoric, but the gap between sides with parachute payments, especially those in their first season post relegation, and the rest of the league is so so much bigger than people think. 

Yep, nail on head Pete. The discussion in the car on the drive back yesterday turned to this. We felt like every single player in the Leeds starting 11 would walk into ours, whilst there was no-one in ours who’d get further than their bench. And that’s not to knock our recruitment, not to knock our players or manager or coaches or owner.
And also recognising that it’s also about the team as a whole - and that’s our great strength. But in the context of that gulf caused by parachute payments it’s not nearly enough.