Kal Naismith

[B-Rizzle]

I feel for him but his body’s not very resilient, is it? He’s a good player but is a bit of a liability that he’s only fit for around a third of our games each season.

Any idea what his injury record was like prior to joining us? If it was similar then I hope the recruitment department + Tins are reflecting on the quality of this signing - all things considered. 

[Rossi the Robin]

He was a cracking signing at the time

Luton fans are still upset despite going up

It could be age and maybe it’s caught him up a bit 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Wasn't bad tbh his injury record! League only.

Luton

Luton, started 42 games in 2021-22 in the Championship.

Moved to Luton January 2021, not sure when exactly. 17 starts,  5 sub Appearances in the Championship.

Wigan

Left for Luton sometime in January 2021, made 12 starts in League One.

2019-20 in the Championship, 22 starts and 15 sub Appearances.

2018-19 in the Championship, 22 starts and 8 sub Appearances.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

Get your point, but re numbers:

22/23 - played in 30 / 53

23/24 - played in 15 / 20 (that becomes 15 / 21 on Sunday and worsens from there)

As been posted by others, his availability record was good.

[Shauntaylor85]

Something is wrong at the HPC surely. Rolls, Rennie, Millen or whoever is in charge now, probably Lorenzo Pinamonte!  

[W-S-M Seagull]

Questions need to be asked about how a player just back from injury has gone and got injured again. Over conditioned JL?

[!james]

Can't we ask our medical expert Jon Lansdown to treat him? He seems to know more than Dave Rennie... 

[Edgy Red]

Naismith is a bit of a strange one for me. I'm not sure he's physical enough to play as a centre back in a back 4, but i don't think he's mobile enough to play in midfield.

He has had a bit of a strange career really and has played in multiple positions for a number of clubs.

I think he's ok and is useful as a utility option but i wouldn't be hugely upset if he moved on.

His one successful season at Luton maybe clouds peoples judgement?

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Get your point, but re numbers:

22/23 - played in 30 / 53

23/24 - played in 15 / 20 (that becomes 15 / 21 on Sunday and worsens from there)

As been posted by others, his availability record was good.

Get your point but 60% availability last season & if he misses the next 5, the same % this year isn’t great.

I would not be surprised if he left in the summer if we can find a taker, his career shows that he never stays anywhere long & say Pompey went up & were interested it would not shock me if he left.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Edgy Red said:

Naismith is a bit of a strange one for me. I'm not sure he's physical enough to play as a centre back in a back 4, but i don't think he's mobile enough to play in midfield.

He has had a bit of a strange career really and has played in multiple positions for a number of clubs.

I think he's ok and is useful as a utility option but i wouldn't be hugely upset if he moved on.

His one successful season at Luton maybe clouds peoples judgement?

Was on my list before Luton.  Liked him at Wigan before he got converted to CB by Paul Cook, then did well there, and got a move to Luton.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Get your point but 60% availability last season & if he misses the next 5, the same % this year isn’t great.

I would not be surprised if he left in the summer if we can find a taker, his career shows that he never stays anywhere long & say Pompey went up & were interested it would not shock me if he left.

No it’s not….but it’s not 1/3rd as per the post I replied to.

 

(I was replying to Brizzle Red - although I see I didn’t actually quote, and others beat me to it!)

Edited December 1, 2023 by Davefevs

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, Edgy Red said:

Naismith is a bit of a strange one for me. I'm not sure he's physical enough to play as a centre back in a back 4, but i don't think he's mobile enough to play in midfield.

He has had a bit of a strange career really and has played in multiple positions for a number of clubs.

I think he's ok and is useful as a utility option but i wouldn't be hugely upset if he moved on.

His one successful season at Luton maybe clouds peoples judgement?

Would say between the centre backs and the overall midfield could be a good position. If fit..it can accenuate his strengths and perhaps mask some weaknesses if he was distributing from that position.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Edgy Red]

26 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was on my list before Luton.  Liked him at Wigan before he got converted to CB by Paul Cook, then did well there, and got a move to Luton.

I don't think he's a bad player but when they are all fit, Dickie, Vyner and Atkinson would be ahead of him in my opinion at centre back.

I worry about his recurring injuries and i would guess he's one of the higher earners in the squad.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Edgy Red
Spelling

[And Its Smith]

Ralls got slagged off a lot and Rennie was like.  Didn’t feel like our injury record under Rennie was any better. Ironically Ipswich’s injury record is very good I believe 

[Kid in the Riot]

46 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Ralls got slagged off a lot and Rennie was like.  Didn’t feel like our injury record under Rennie was any better. Ironically Ipswich’s injury record is very good I believe 

Since we moved to the HPC our injury record has been terrible, and since the AG redevelopment our home form has been shite.

Food for thought. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Since we moved to the HPC our injury record has been terrible, and since the AG redevelopment our home form has been shite.

Food for thought. 

Shite is a bit of a stretch, a couple of years we were around halfway or had okay PPG?

However the general point is interesting albeit during 2020-21, we really ran off the rails injury wise and 2019-20 wasn't brilliant for it either?

[Mr Popodopolous]

One other slightly remarkable stat.

40-45%...that is the average win ratio at home over the last 5 of 6 seasons at this level in the League.

Total home games, total home wins.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[cidercity1987]

47 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Since we moved to the HPC our injury record has been terrible, and since the AG redevelopment our home form has been shite.

Food for thought. 

What's our away form done in that time? Presumably partly funded by our higher crowds 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

What's our away form done in that time? Presumably partly funded by our higher crowds 

https://1x2stats.com/en-gb/ENG/2007/Championship/table-home-away/

This has 2007-08 including Home/Away to present for Championship clubs. You might find it interesting

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Ralls got slagged off a lot and Rennie was like.  Didn’t feel like our injury record under Rennie was any better. Ironically Ipswich’s injury record is very good I believe 

Depends how you measure injuries Dave.

Muscle injuries reduced last season and this.  Joint and impact injuries hitting us this season.  Hard to avoid those, unless you you want timid players.  When players like Zak and Nahki who’ve been virtually ever-present fitness wise pick up knee ligament (colliding with keeper v Plymouth) and ankle (caught by Leeds player) respectively, there’s an element of “we’re jinxed”…it isn’t something you can try to attribute to a person.

I wasn’t one who criticised Rolls, these guys, Rolls included, are medical pros.  They won’t always get things right, Rolls admitted he got the pre-season after covid return wrong.  It was new.  Holden had a bigger squad to absorb the volume we had in 20/21.

And on that squad size, Tins keeps quoting 2 for every position, but we went into the season shy of that number when you consider Atkinson and Benarous.

Lets hope it improves for whatever reason.

 

[Son of Fred]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Would say between the centre backs and the overall midfield could be a good position.

You mean a kinda forward sweeper?

But not exactly a DM??

Maybe work with wingbacks???

Been thinking for a long while this would suit him perfectly - although I'm not the person to work out the best formation to accommodate!

Edited December 2, 2023 by Son of Fred

[Fuber]

10 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Ralls got slagged off a lot and Rennie was like.  Didn’t feel like our injury record under Rennie was any better. Ironically Ipswich’s injury record is very good I believe 

Think context needs to be provided here.

Rolls got shat on due to the type of injuries we were getting - we had 5 players out at one stage due to Calf and Hamstring pulls and tears at one stage.

Compare that to Rennie where we had two ACL injuries (which are plain unlucky and more linked to development (15-19) than anything with regards to fitness, and Vyner, Tanner, among others who were impact injuries.

The only player I can recall with Hamstring issues is Conway - Williams had recurrences and has been crocked ever since the Rolls period, O'Neill was also critical of our medical team - think it was mentioned when he was a pundit on one of our matches before getting the Bournemouth job. See if I can find out which.

[mozo]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Depends how you measure injuries Dave.

Muscle injuries reduced last season and this.  Joint and impact injuries hitting us this season.  Hard to avoid those, unless you you want timid players.  When players like Zak and Nahki who’ve been virtually ever-present fitness wise pick up knee ligament (colliding with keeper v Plymouth) and ankle (caught by Leeds player) respectively, there’s an element of “we’re jinxed”…it isn’t something you can try to attribute to a person.

I wasn’t one who criticised Rolls, these guys, Rolls included, are medical pros.  They won’t always get things right, Rolls admitted he got the pre-season after covid return wrong.  It was new.  Holden had a bigger squad to absorb the volume we had in 20/21.

And on that squad size, Tins keeps quoting 2 for every position, but we went into the season shy of that number when you consider Atkinson and Benarous.

Lets hope it improves for whatever reason.

 

It's just so tiring waiting for the end of the jinx  Our team has been consistently patched up for years now.

[GrahamC]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Depends how you measure injuries Dave.

Muscle injuries reduced last season and this.  Joint and impact injuries hitting us this season.  Hard to avoid those, unless you you want timid players.  When players like Zak and Nahki who’ve been virtually ever-present fitness wise pick up knee ligament (colliding with keeper v Plymouth) and ankle (caught by Leeds player) respectively, there’s an element of “we’re jinxed”…it isn’t something you can try to attribute to a person.

I wasn’t one who criticised Rolls, these guys, Rolls included, are medical pros.  They won’t always get things right, Rolls admitted he got the pre-season after covid return wrong.  It was new.  Holden had a bigger squad to absorb the volume we had in 20/21.

And on that squad size, Tins keeps quoting 2 for every position, but we went into the season shy of that number when you consider Atkinson and Benarous.

Lets hope it improves for whatever reason.

 

On that squad point I would also add King probably wasn’t expected at 35 to be a part of it on such a regular basis, but our paucity of numbers meant he was in almost every squad up until his injury.

I don’t see a way back for him in terms of playing now, so as we plan for January I think he should be discounted.

This two for every position claim looks even more ridiculous when you consider it has meant a member of Pearson’s coaching team & Araoye, Knight-Lebel, Backwell, Nelson & Yeboah on the team sheet on a consistent basis. No one else in the division is including this amount of inexperience & I haven’t even included Bajic in this list, either.

Likewise sadly for far different reasons to King I think we now have to ignore Benarous.

Re Vyner & Wells I am confident that is just one of those things that happen in games, one of them typically is back already, the other I’m sure will be soon.

McCrorie from what I’ve heard was not so much bad luck as a circumstance that was nothing to do with the current medical team & so shouldn’t happen again, although Tanner has done fine, as an option he’s been a miss though.

All of this leads me to the same conclusion as in the summer we are still 2 experienced players short & signing ones like Sykes, Wells, Weimann, Dickie, Knight with historically excellent availability records is key.

 

 

[SydneyCity]

11 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Since we moved to the HPC our injury record has been terrible, and since the AG redevelopment our home form has been shite.

Food for thought. 

Here’s an overview of a study involving our specific hybrid playing surface during that time, vs a control surface of grass only, and the top nine boots worn by elite footballers:

No support was found for our primary hypothesis that the hybrid reinforced turf system would have higher rotational traction across the different shoes. In fact, a trend towards the opposite finding is evident in this study.

Large variations in the magnitude of shoe-surface rotational traction are evident across different individual shoe models and outsole groups for each surface tested here. Individual shoe type and outsole group significantly affected rotational traction which has been linked to increased lower extremity injury (Lambson et al., Citation1996; Olsen et al., Citation2003; Mack et al., 2019; Wannop et al., Citation2013). Higher shoe-surface traction increases joint loading in the frontal and transverse planes at the knee and ankle (Wannop & Stefanyshyn, Citation2016). Furthermore, anterior cruciate ligament loading parameters increase when shoe-surface traction is high (Sinclair & Stainton, 2017). These factors may contribute to an increased risk of non-contact lower limb injury.

This study shows footwear selection can significantly influence (increase or decrease) rotational traction for the two surfaces tested: under the climatic conditions and mechanical surface properties at the time of testing. Players can adjust their footwear selection to suit the surface conditions at times where lower rotational traction is desirable. For example, returning to on-field rehabilitation following ACL injury or ankle syndesmosis injury where it may be prudent to minimize the chance of the shoe getting ‘stuck’ on the surface (foot fixation)…

One previous study examined injury incidence between a different hybrid reinforced system (stitched), artificial turf, and natural grass in one elite rugby union team over two seasons of match play (Cousins et al., Citation2022). Overall match injury incidence doubled on hybrid or synthetic surfaces compared to natural grass. Knee injuries were 3 times higher on the hybrid playing surface compared to natural grass. The authors suggest further studies across multiple clubs and seasons in a larger cohort to investigate these initial findings…

Hybrid reinforced playing surfaces on sand-based rootzones are reported to be harder than natural grass surfaces especially later in the playing season or later in their usage life because of compaction from traffic, etc. (Caple et al., Citation2012; Thanheiser et al., Citation2018). The high expense associated with the installation of hybrid systems means they are often used for many seasons in a row with grounds staff renovating the surface each season. This can increase shear stability and possible rotational traction due to the compaction of sand particles if maintenance practices are not able to manage compaction…

Football boot selection is one of the few immediately modifiable factors that a player can influence just before kick-off when the surface properties or climate are largely pre-defined. Differences across outsole groups are much larger than differences across playing surfaces. This extends previous findings to suggest (Serensits & McNitt, 2014) footwear selection has a larger effect on rotational traction than playing surface properties. However, recent studies using playing surfaces and footwear designed for American football suggest playing surface affects torque more than (stud/cleat) design which contrasts our findings (Kent et al., Citation2021). Future studies should investigate…

We suggest using the findings to help select football boots with lower rotational traction which may be useful for specific scenarios (e.g. during on-field rehabilitation after lower extremity injury).

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Fuber said:

Think context needs to be provided here.

Rolls got shat on due to the type of injuries we were getting - we had 5 players out at one stage due to Calf and Hamstring pulls and tears at one stage.

Compare that to Rennie where we had two ACL injuries (which are plain unlucky and more linked to development (15-19) than anything with regards to fitness, and Vyner, Tanner, among others who were impact injuries.

The only player I can recall with Hamstring issues is Conway - Williams had recurrences and has been crocked ever since the Rolls period, O'Neill was also critical of our medical team - think it was mentioned when he was a pundit on one of our matches before getting the Bournemouth job. See if I can find out which.

Steve (Wiggy) Allen was the medical lead then.

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

On that squad point I would also add King probably wasn’t expected at 35 to be a part of it on such a regular basis, but our paucity of numbers meant he was in almost every squad up until his injury.

I don’t see a way back for him in terms of playing now, so as we plan for January I think he should be discounted.

This two for every position claim looks even more ridiculous when you consider it has meant a member of Pearson’s coaching team & Araoye, Knight-Lebel, Backwell, Nelson & Yeboah on the team sheet on a consistent basis. No one else in the division is including this amount of inexperience & I haven’t even included Bajic in this list, either.

Likewise sadly for far different reasons to King I think we now have to ignore Benarous.

Re Vyner & Wells I am confident that is just one of those things that happen in games, one of them typically is back already, the other I’m sure will be soon.

McCrorie from what I’ve heard was not so much bad luck as a circumstance that was nothing to do with the current medical team & so shouldn’t happen again, although Tanner has done fine, as an option he’s been a miss though.

All of this leads me to the same conclusion as in the summer we are still 2 experienced players short & signing ones like Sykes, Wells, Weimann, Dickie, Knight with historically excellent availability records is key.

 

 

Good summary and context.  You’re right re King, he’s actually played quite well when he has, but that’s not the point is it.

Dont get me wrong, I don’t / didn’t want a big squad, but I did want one or two more…just to ease the workload, give rest / rotation options…especially going into a period like this.

I totally got the really small squad number last season and before, we were cutting costs, significant costs.

But this season, there was no need to be as short sided as we are.

Tomorrow we run with 14 “senior” outfield players, that’s not enough.  Imagine running with 10 at Cardiff (9 + Conway on the bench).  Tomorrow we can’t even make 5 senior subs.  Even with injuries we shouldn’t be running like this most weeks.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

Hybrid reinforced playing surfaces on sand-based rootzones are reported to be harder than natural grass surfaces especially later in the playing season or later in their usage life because of compaction from traffic, etc

Thanks for finding this.

A combo of harder surfaces and traction is not good is it.

[SydneyCity]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

A combo of harder surfaces and traction is not good is it.

No it’s not. I’m not an expert but my personal belief is we’ve chosen a particular type of hybrid surface that prioritises multi-sport functionality / durability over injury prevention. 

[Major Isewater]

16 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

No it’s not. I’m not an expert but my personal belief is we’ve chosen a particular type of hybrid surface that prioritises multi-sport functionality / durability over injury prevention. 

I doubt that the idea even crossed the minds of the powers that be. 
 

[DaveInSA]

2 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I doubt that the idea even crossed the minds of the powers that be. 
 

Which is surprising, because Jon is an expert in elite performance and injury recovery.