West 'Am - Sunday 7th Jan. 2pm

[frenchred]

Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

I would say Leeds, Leicester, Sheffield Weds, maybe WBA, Norwich are bigger clubs than Sunderland. 

Depends what criteria you are using

I would argue, Sunderland with their fan base, support and ground are bigger than all them

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I would say Leeds, Leicester, Sheffield Weds, maybe WBA, Norwich are bigger clubs than Sunderland. 

Norwich?

Others may have case, but Norwich? First 3 certainly have a strong argument.

It is all quite subjective of course. Many ways to measure.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[cidercity1987]

11 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Depends what criteria you are using

I would argue, Sunderland with their fan base, support and ground are bigger than all them

Agreed 

Only Leeds are even close 

[redkev]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

So who is categorically the biggest team in the league?

Please enlighten us

Bristol Rovers surely - oh hang on there in the pub league below 

[phantom]

3 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Anyone know if this is planned to be televised, other than just highlights? as going to be out of the country

 

3 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

Not on UK tv or Robins tv but may be shown on certain foreign channels.

@sh1t_ref_again @ralphindevon

Already confirmed on 8th December it's being covered 

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/west-ham-fa-cup-date-set/

[phantom]

2 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

Not a strange one at all. They are categorically not the biggest team in the league.

Completely agree 

I've a friend in Weston who casually watches Sunderland a few times a season with his dad 

They got tickets Saturday with four other friends that have never seen Sunderland game ever in the away end 

[sh1t_ref_again]

31 minutes ago, phantom said:

 

@sh1t_ref_again @ralphindevon

Already confirmed on 8th December it's being covered 

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/west-ham-fa-cup-date-set/

Thanks, should get to watch with a beer in the sun

[Bobby girl]

3 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Our home end against the biggest club in the league 

Absolutely pathetic

The quicker they stop selling too cheap tickets in there the better

I don’t know how long you have supported the club, so you may not be aware that the majority of season ticket holders in SS are former Eastenders or Atyeo season ticket holders. We were moved there by the club and it is about time that the people who don’t have season tickets there stopped moaning about how much er pay or how many attend .

I myself was not there on Saturday as my grandson was unwell, so I stayed with him so his father could go to the game. That means that two of us were not there ( grandson is also SS season ticket holder) for genuine reason. I am sure many others missing that game or others have genuine reasons too.

[Cardy]

6 minutes ago, Bobby girl said:

I don’t know how long you have supported the club, so you may not be aware that the majority of season ticket holders in SS are former Eastenders or Atyeo season ticket holders. We were moved there by the club and it is about time that the people who don’t have season tickets there stopped moaning about how much er pay or how many attend .

I myself was not there on Saturday as my grandson was unwell, so I stayed with him so his father could go to the game. That means that two of us were not there ( grandson is also SS season ticket holder) for genuine reason. I am sure many others missing that game or others have genuine reasons too.

Yeah but the issue is there are consistently too many empty seats in what should be a sold out stand.

Everyone knows what is going on. People are buying dead cheap u12 seats, getting a free shirt & then not using the seat at all or for a child or mate who goes now & then.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Cardy

[Mr Popodopolous]

40 minutes ago, Cardy said:

Yeah but the issue is there are consistently too many empty seats in what should be a sold out stand.

Everyone knows what is going on. People are buying dead cheap u12 seats, getting a free shirt & then not using the seat at all or for a child or mate who goes now & then.

It isn't ideal although I dunno about the U12 wheeze, how likely.

Fans who want to buy POTD, they are like gold dust in the South Stand a lot of the time but then it looks a third empty or whatever, optics aren't great.

I don't pretend to know the answer.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Lydered]

6 hours ago, lenred said:

Can’t see anywhere where a football team could sit together unless I’m missing something though? Unless you look directly to the right of you on the Williams?     
For context I sit with 14 people I am mates with and their kids (3 kids).   Out of that 14, 6 were not there Saturday due to parties (both adult and kids) and child care. Not sure if our crew were just adversely affected but seemed quieter all around Saturday.  All anecdotal of course! Anyway let’s not derail it anymore. It’ll never be able to be proven or otherwise.  

I had a season ticket in S22 (right behind the goal) for about 5 years before moving to the Dolman start of last season.

 

I was in row 5, over that 5 years, at a guess I'd say 90% of games there was 8 seats next to me empty, and atleast 10 seats in row 4 infront of me empty

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 hours ago, lenred said:

Can’t see anywhere where a football team could sit together unless I’m missing something though? Unless you look directly to the right of you on the Williams?     
For context I sit with 14 people I am mates with and their kids (3 kids).   Out of that 14, 6 were not there Saturday due to parties (both adult and kids) and child care. Not sure if our crew were just adversely affected but seemed quieter all around Saturday.  All anecdotal of course! Anyway let’s not derail it anymore. It’ll never be able to be proven or otherwise.  

How many u12 season tickets do you have? 

[cidercity1987]

5 hours ago, Bobby girl said:

I don’t know how long you have supported the club, so you may not be aware that the majority of season ticket holders in SS are former Eastenders or Atyeo season ticket holders. We were moved there by the club and it is about time that the people who don’t have season tickets there stopped moaning about how much er pay or how many attend .

I myself was not there on Saturday as my grandson was unwell, so I stayed with him so his father could go to the game. That means that two of us were not there ( grandson is also SS season ticket holder) for genuine reason. I am sure many others missing that game or others have genuine reasons too.

I dunno what how long I have supported the club has to do with anything, a good 25 years as you asked. Not as long as you no doubt  but I've been a season ticket holder both in the Atyeo and as one of only 247 or something in the East End in the late 2000's.

As others have said its clear what's going on and you wouldn't find such a sparse home end at other clubs. No doubting your genuine reasons for not attending sometimes but South Stand season ticket holders appear to have more genuine reasons than any other set of fans anywhere.

No-one can get tickets in there due to people hoovering up cheap season tickets and then not attending often. I don't know why the club do it as I can guarantee they would make more money selling those seats to pay on the day'ers including groups who currently struggle to find seats together anywhere in the stadium.

[richwwtk]

2 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

I dunno what how long I have supported the club has to do with anything, a good 25 years as you asked. Not as long as you no doubt  but I've been a season ticket holder both in the Atyeo and as one of only 247 or something in the East End in the late 2000's.

As others have said its clear what's going on and you wouldn't find such a sparse home end at other clubs. No doubting your genuine reasons for not attending sometimes but South Stand season ticket holders appear to have more genuine reasons than any other set of fans anywhere.

No-one can get tickets in there due to people hoovering up cheap season tickets and then not attending often. I don't know why the club do it as I can guarantee they would make more money selling those seats to pay on the day'ers including groups who currently struggle to find seats together anywhere in the stadium.

The more I think about it, I think the main reason for the spaces aren't U12 ST's (though there may well be a handful not ever used), but more likely people buying a ticket in the cheaper South Stand and then finding empty seats in more expensive areas.

[E.G.Red]

12 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Anyone know if this is planned to be televised, other than just highlights? as going to be out of the country

The overseas rights are the reason its 2pm on a Sunday afternoon so you should be OK

[redkev]

8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It isn't ideal although I dunno about the U12 wheeze, how likely.

Fans who want to buy POTD, they are like gold dust in the South Stand a lot of the time but then it looks a third empty or whatever, optics aren't great.

I don't pretend to know the answer.

So what’s the answer then.  

[lenred]

8 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

How many u12 season tickets do you have? 

I don’t have any.  My daughter shows no interest.  

[Steve Watts]

10 hours ago, Cardy said:

Yeah but the issue is there are consistently too many empty seats in what should be a sold out stand.

Everyone knows what is going on. People are buying dead cheap u12 seats, getting a free shirt & then not using the seat at all or for a child or mate who goes now & then.

There is little logic to this statement at all.  If your kid is bothered enough to want a £40 shirt, why wouldn't they be bothered about going?  Or similarly if you're bothered enough to want your kid to have a free £40 shirt why wouldn't you be bothered about taking them?  If you don't want to take them, you wouldn't spend £55 on a £40 shirt!  

There will no doubt be cases where they're not able to go to every match, but again that would likely be more than "now & again". 

To lump all the problems on under 12 season tickets is utterly dumbfounding!  As well as saying that the club should stop selling affordable kids tickets in the most affordable part of the ground!  As well as making that statement with the economy on its knees!

Fast forward 20 years and see how the resultant lost generation of fans makes a difference to the attendance.

[Harry]

9 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

There is little logic to this statement at all.  If your kid is bothered enough to want a £40 shirt, why wouldn't they be bothered about going?  Or similarly if you're bothered enough to want your kid to have a free £40 shirt why wouldn't you be bothered about taking them?  If you don't want to take them, you wouldn't spend £55 on a £40 shirt!  

There will no doubt be cases where they're not able to go to every match, but again that would likely be more than "now & again". 

To lump all the problems on under 12 season tickets is utterly dumbfounding!  As well as saying that the club should stop selling affordable kids tickets in the most affordable part of the ground!  As well as making that statement with the economy on its knees!

Fast forward 20 years and see how the resultant lost generation of fans makes a difference to the attendance.

If happens. 
I’ve had a season ticket in the family stand with my daughter for the last 5 seasons now. She’s now 10. On average she’s probably been to about 5 or 6 games per season. And never any evening ones due to age/school night. 
We have the ticket for 2 reasons a) so she can attend when she wants to and b) because it’s a good deal. 
 

I don’t know if you have young kids, but even if you do, what your kids want and what other kids want will never be the same. 
My daughter isn’t totally into football. But she likes to come down now and again for some daddy time. If it’s cold wet and windy she likely won’t want to come. 
 

In my vicinity we have about 7 dads and about 11 kids tickets all together. 
I can count 1 game in 5 years that all 18 people have shown up at the same time. Every game there will be at least one of the children who won’t be there (for varying reasons).

Not all kids are diehard supporters who will be there every week through thick and thin, rain and shine. 
 

There is a fair argument to make that the lack of available seats in the South Stand is a bit of a problem, but let’s not pretend that once a child has a season ticket that they will be wanting to attend every single match. Or to use your words “be bothered”. 

[Harry]

Re tickets and their availability. 
If we look at the furthest home fixture being sold, qpr in Feb we can see the following seats available :

South Stand 27

Dolman 2,046

Lansdown 940

Family 1,272

So, if anyone wanted to buy tickets for a group of people or a football team then there is plenty of seats together in the Dolman or the Lansdown. 

[Club and Country]

13 minutes ago, Harry said:

Re tickets and their availability. 
If we look at the furthest home fixture being sold, qpr in Feb we can see the following seats available :

South Stand 27

Dolman 2,046

Lansdown 940

Family 1,272

So, if anyone wanted to buy tickets for a group of people or a football team then there is plenty of seats together in the Dolman or the Lansdown. 

That 27 south stand figure really is mad

as we've discussed, will be loads of spare seats come game day 

 

[Steve Watts]

25 minutes ago, Harry said:

If happens. 
I’ve had a season ticket in the family stand with my daughter for the last 5 seasons now. She’s now 10. On average she’s probably been to about 5 or 6 games per season. And never any evening ones due to age/school night. 
We have the ticket for 2 reasons a) so she can attend when she wants to and b) because it’s a good deal. 
 

I don’t know if you have young kids, but even if you do, what your kids want and what other kids want will never be the same. 
My daughter isn’t totally into football. But she likes to come down now and again for some daddy time. If it’s cold wet and windy she likely won’t want to come. 
 

In my vicinity we have about 7 dads and about 11 kids tickets all together. 
I can count 1 game in 5 years that all 18 people have shown up at the same time. Every game there will be at least one of the children who won’t be there (for varying reasons).

Not all kids are diehard supporters who will be there every week through thick and thin, rain and shine. 
 

There is a fair argument to make that the lack of available seats in the South Stand is a bit of a problem, but let’s not pretend that once a child has a season ticket that they will be wanting to attend every single match. Or to use your words “be bothered”. 

Oh, 100%.  I too was in a similar position with my own daughter.  Her twin brother took to it, but she didn't.  My point being is that I doubt it's the source of the problem as opposed to a mere contributing factor. 

I would actually say that my fave for the main proportion of the blame more likely lies with people who buy a ticket to the cheapest part of the ground and then working their way to a better seat or to S82. Those that therefore have no preference for which seat they select as a a result.

[lenred]

16 hours ago, ralphindevon said:

I PM’d Lenred with a similar photo but even closer, you can clearly pick out one section where there’s 10 empty seats with 6 empty just behind, easily enough to sit a football team, as well as loads of other spots with 5 /6 seats empty.

I’m not sure why he’s so defensive towards the South Stand, it’s plain to see and like it most games.

What a shame.  I’ve just sent you a courteous reply but didn’t see this salty response as I wouldn’t have bothered!    How on earth am I being ‘defensive’?  I’m giving you my experience? The club are evidently happy.  No one is breaking any rules.  Until the club change the rules then it is what it is.  We do not have access to the data so photos taken at random points with nothing to back them up are pretty meaningless either way.  I’m sure if I could be bothered I could find photos of a packed SS. It means nothing.  

[ralphindevon]

19 minutes ago, lenred said:

What a shame.  I’ve just sent you a courteous reply but didn’t see this salty response as I wouldn’t have bothered!    How on earth am I being ‘defensive’?  I’m giving you my experience? The club are evidently happy.  No one is breaking any rules.  Until the club change the rules then it is what it is.  We do not have access to the data so photos taken at random points with nothing to back them up are pretty meaningless either way.  I’m sure if I could be bothered I could find photos of a packed SS. It means nothing.  

Sorry if it came across like that but I can't understand why you can't see what everyone else can.

And no you won't be able to find a picture of a  packed stand in a recent league game because there hasn't been one. I've got one from the Man City game and it's not looked like that since, yet it's sold out most games.

Anyway, happy to agree to disagree 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by ralphindevon

[phantom]

30 minutes ago, Club and Country said:

That 27 south stand figure really is mad

as we've discussed, will be loads of spare seats come game day 

 

I wonder how many people buy a cheap ticket, but move their seat to somewhere else in the stadium?

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, redkev said:

So what’s the answer then.  

Well it's a bit late now but setting aside a certain % of STs by stand might have been one approach, or leaving a number of POTD or similar, Members Idk.

The other idea albeit this tends to be at clubs whereby tickets are less easy to find full stop, some sort of club facilitated Ticket Exchange for those who can't make it on the day. An upgrade fee would need paying for any U12 to adult say.

One of those 2 may help.

Club should have the data, maybe the problem is exaggerated. Not doing a bit of Jon Lansdown's job for him unpaid! 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[bcfc01]

Maybe there should be a system whereby a season card holder can easily let the club know they won't be attending so that seat becomes available for POTD.  Mayb an incentive would be to recompense the card holder with a tenner while charging the full price for POTD.

Sorry if already mentioned in the thread.

[Tony Tootle]

23 minutes ago, phantom said:

I wonder how many people buy a cheap ticket, but move their seat to somewhere else in the stadium?

A lot

[phantom]

9 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Maybe there should be a system whereby a season card holder can easily let the club know they won't be attending so that seat becomes available for POTD.  Mayb an incentive would be to recompense the card holder with a tenner while charging the full price for POTD.

Sorry if already mentioned in the thread.

The reason they won't do this is because there isn't any demand for all the tickets in the ground anyway

The club are never going to make the cheapest tickets in the ground available if there are more expensive seats already available

[Davefevs]

17 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Maybe there should be a system whereby a season card holder can easily let the club know they won't be attending so that seat becomes available for POTD.  Mayb an incentive would be to recompense the card holder with a tenner while charging the full price for POTD.

Sorry if already mentioned in the thread.

6 minutes ago, phantom said:

The reason they won't do this is because there isn't any demand for all the tickets in the ground anyway

The club are never going to make the cheapest tickets in the ground available if there are more expensive seats already available

Totally get that, it’s their prerogative, but I suspect they are missing out on some sales as a result…and the non-tangible, loss of atmosphere too.