4 without a win

[supercidered]

26 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

Not as depressing as having to sit through 16 home games without a win

How depressing would a relegation battle be or worse?

25 games to go. You may well be sitting through worse.

[TV Tom]

10 minutes ago, supercidered said:

How depressing would a relegation battle be or worse?

25 games to go. You may well be sitting through worse.

I'm used to it

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, TV Tom said:

Not as depressing as having to sit through 16 home games without a win

Thing is like every team we play both home games & away games & if you win at Middlesbrough, Swansea, Birmingham, Reading, Cardiff, QPR & Peterborough during that run they you keep mentioning all the time, then it is a lot less relevant than if you don’t.

[TV Tom]

38 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Thing is like every team we play both home games & away games & if you win at Middlesbrough, Swansea, Birmingham, Reading, Cardiff, QPR & Peterborough during that run they you keep mentioning all the time, then it is a lot less relevant than if you don’t.

Oh dear, did you go to all the trouble of looking that up 

[GrahamC]

Just now, TV Tom said:

Oh dear, did you go to all the trouble of looking that up 

Yes I did, they are called facts.

F-A-C-T-S.

Try them, though fair play to you as one of those who joined in 2017 but didn’t start posting until Pearson was sacked at least you have stuck around with your propaganda.

[Big Cheese]

11 hours ago, Mendip City said:

Exactly. Massive challenge for manning. Can he adapt his philosophy to meet this squad’s ability/strengths?  
I don’t understand why, having inherited a squad not struggling, he chose to immediately completely  change the style of play rather than evolve it over a period of time. 
 

Oh hang on Brian and Jon told him to. 

Yep, makes you wonder how much of an influence and say Tins has in selection,  tactics,  who they sign, new manager etc.liked him as a player, but now a Lansdown puppet unfortunately 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, TV Tom said:

Not as depressing as having to sit through 16 home games without a win

That is true, and I know I’m being selective, but ignoring the end of 20/21 season (we know the context), we won games away from home to avoid it being a big problem.  It meant we never really got momentum, but we didn’t go backwards either.  I don’t care where we win our games, I’ve always said that, so I never got too down about the home form.  Nige had an uncanny knack for winning games before a bad run was established.  He might not have won back to back too often, but he kept us ticking over.  In the position we were in that was fine.

 

[supercidered]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is true, and I know I’m being selective, but ignoring the end of 20/21 season (we know the context), we won games away from home to avoid it being a big problem.  It meant we never really got momentum, but we didn’t go backwards either.  I don’t care where we win our games, I’ve always said that, so I never got too down about the home form.  Nige had an uncanny knack for winning games before a bad run was established.  He might not have won back to back too often, but he kept us ticking over.  In the position we were in that was fine.

 

Oh how I long for the days when we were in a position of being fine.

 

[mozo]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Two & we might be grateful for them in May..

I know you don’t want to hear this but we were decimated by injuries in those 4 & faced two of the top three in them.

We have just played a side that has lost 6 at home, another who will finish bottom two, not remotely similar.

Mate, I'm happy to hear your opinion, but I'm not convinced you're being objective.

Of course Nige was up against it with injuries and a small squad that is lacking in several areas, not to mention low confidence. I just don't think Manning has it any easier.

Talk me through how Nige would have got results against Boro, Southampton, Norwich and Blackburn? 

Did Manning tell James not to close down Walker-Peters?

Is Manning to blame for owns goals by Vyner and Tanner? 

How would Nige have got Conway, Weimann and Bell to start playing to their potential? 

I'm not particularly sure what your critique of Manning is?

[Major Isewater]

4 hours ago, Mr Hankey said:

think a major issue is that the players were coached and set up to play a certain way, particularly over last season and this pre-season (counter attacking, fast paced), to now have to have all of that ripped up & play a completely different style (possesion based, keep the ball, pass pass pass) which unfortunately some just aren’t up to that standard of play in this division, especially the likes of Williams and our wide players (barring Sykes).

It reminds me of when Cloughie took over at Leeds and basically told them that everything they had done before was rubbish. 
Great for confidence and morale. 

[TV Tom]

41 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Yes I did, they are called facts.

F-A-C-T-S.

Try them, though fair play to you as one of those who joined in 2017 but didn’t start posting until Pearson was sacked at least you have stuck around with your propaganda.

Talking of facts, where did you get 2017 from? and are you suggesting that i've made 5.3K posts since Pearson was sacked ?

[GrahamC]

15 minutes ago, mozo said:

Mate, I'm happy to hear your opinion, but I'm not convinced you're being objective.

Of course Nige was up against it with injuries and a small squad that is lacking in several areas, not to mention low confidence. I just don't think Manning has it any easier.

Talk me through how Nige would have got results against Boro, Southampton, Norwich and Blackburn? 

Did Manning tell James not to close down Walker-Peters?

Is Manning to blame for owns goals by Vyner and Tanner? 

How would Nige have got Conway, Weimann and Bell to start playing to their potential? 

I'm not particularly sure what your critique of Manning is?

Others on here are far more switched on technically & tactically than me, so my sole observation is that Manning should stick to a single formation & starting 11 as much as possible.

Maybe Weimann is on the way down but it was certainly the case that even last season NP got more from him than at present.

Bell simply needs a break, Conway needs a strike partner which in the absence of Wells for me would be the much maligned Cornick.

I agree that Manning doesn’t have it easier & genuinely want him to succeed but all games have moments where players at our level make mistakes, over a longer run of time it must surely be the case that evens out? Pearson had the players you mentioned, he can’t have just been lucky?

His record against Blackburn & Boro suggests he would have, Southampton like all relegated sides are probably a step too far whoever is in the dugout.

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 hours ago, mozo said:

Nige got 3 points from his last 12 so not a massive difference 

The injuries were rising exponentially, for a number of games we couldn't even field a bona fide right back. The injuries undid us to a degree.

Granted Tanner has his limitations but a specialist in the position is at least a good starting point from a stability and foundation perspective.

Manning had benefited from the return of Tanner, Vyner, Naismith, James and Williams, granted Naismith is out again but some of these are important structurally.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, TV Tom said:

You can play with figures and statistics as much as you like (no mention of Pearson's involvement in 16 home games without a win) personally i think if anything the performances have improved and have deserved more points than we've got despite our strikers under-performing.

This forum has become so depressing. 

In some ways certain metrics have improved but the dip is a bit alarming and it is the joint 2nd worst in a year this League run..

There was a run of 1 win in 10 laat season so we are a way of that but post Christmas we started to make significant progress and in terms of style too vs some sides, we looked a cohesive side at the very least.

I'm not saying that cohesiveness now for the most part.

[mozo]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Others on here are far more switched on technically & tactically than me, so my sole observation is that Manning should stick to a single formation & starting 11 as much as possible.

Maybe Weimann is on the way down but it was certainly the case that even last season NP got more from him than at present.

Bell simply needs a break, Conway needs a strike partner which in the absence of Wells for me would be the much maligned Cornick.

I agree that Manning doesn’t have it easier & genuinely want him to succeed but all games have moments where players at our level make mistakes, over a longer run of time it must surely be the case that evens out? Pearson had the players you mentioned, he can’t have just been lucky?

His record against Blackburn & Boro suggests he would have, Southampton like all relegated sides are probably a step too far whoever is in the dugout.

Yeah I agree with you on most of that 

I think the things we can criticise Manning on are the second set of subs yesterday (the first subs worked wonders), dropping TGH, and potentially, although it's highly speculative, for trying to change our style too soon. 

I think we also have to give him credit for not only getting this group of players to pass and move (sadly not 1st half last night), but also having more shots on goal, including on target, than most oppenents, an uptick on Nige's stats.

But clearly some of our problems exist irrespective of Nige and Manning... Bell and Tanner have shown poor form under both managers (Bell started the season well and tailed off). Neither have had a fully firing Weimann or Wells. Neither have had Naismith for more than a cameo. Neither have had our new right back, and our new left back has barely featured. Neither have been able to get a substantial impact from Mehmeti or Yeboah. And Conway...

Conway, as far as I can see, has the exact same role under Manning as he did under Nige. He's still on his own up top, and appears to me to have the same roles and responsibilities as he did under Nige. But he looks a shadow of his former self.

You know more than me how frustrating it was that people on here were just waiting to pounce on every defeat that Nige had, and I feel it's possible that Manning is going to get the same treatment.

I'll reiterate that Nige should still be the manager. And I didn't even know who Manning was prior to the rumours about him. So I don't have a prejudice here. I just don't think Manning has done anything especially wrong so far, unless some defensive howlers and misfiring forwards are down to his guidance.

We're definitely in a bad place right now though.

 

[Mr Hankey]

4 minutes ago, mason said:

Yes of course we all hope, I hope the Lansdowns sell up and leave....tomorrow. I hope I live long enough to see that and will be back to the next game after they leave.

Its difficult to walk away from a club you have supported for years, since 1966/7 for me but continuing to go signals, to me anyway, that its ok for them to do whatever they like.

They dont give a shite what we think but they may notice if enough actually do something more drastic than nothing.

Still follow every game but not by attending, and Manning maybe the one that takes us to new hieghts, although the Lansdowns manager selection record has not been great, best of luck with your hopes from the latest one.

I think you are completely misunderstanding my point mate. Did i want Manning? No. Do i think he will succeed & take us new heights? Not at all. But why bother wasting my Saturday if i don't have some form of hope. I have already paid for my season ticket so i'm not going to stop going halfway through the season. Will i get a season ticket next year? Most likely yes, despite my apathy towards the current owners - it's not their club, it's ours, despite what Lansdown may say. I wont be giving up something i love due to my dislike of the owner. The club will be here long after they leave

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 hours ago, TV Tom said:

You can play with figures and statistics as much as you like (no mention of Pearson's involvement in 16 home games without a win) personally i think if anything the performances have improved and have deserved more points than we've got despite our strikers under-performing.

This forum has become so depressing. 

What games did we deserve to get more points than we got?

QPR? Nope. 

Southampton? Nope.

Norwich? Nope. 

Huddersfield? Nope. 

Blackburn? Nope. 

We've got exactly what we've deserved. Boro are still scratching their heads as to how we beat them. 

Just saying something doesn't make it true mate. 

Thr forum has become depressing because we've become depressing to watch. 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[Fuber]

16 hours ago, mozo said:

The important thing is we've seen some good stuff in those games, unfortunately not across the full 90, attackers not taking their chances and some unforced individual errors. Not really anything Manning can do about the last two.

You mean aside from the fact that the whole reason we played counter attacking football under NP is because he knew we didn't have players who could play the full 90 with the ball at their feet without concentration problems.

We had the second best defence in the league on a conceded per 90 basis before Manning.

Nothing 'Good' about the games. Just tippy happy across the back, too slow and too ponderous. We get pressed, panic, and concede. Parallels to SO'D.

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

Yeah I agree with you on most of that 

I think the things we can criticise Manning on are the second set of subs yesterday (the first subs worked wonders), dropping TGH, and potentially, although it's highly speculative, for trying to change our style too soon. 

I think we also have to give him credit for not only getting this group of players to pass and move (sadly not 1st half last night), but also having more shots on goal, including on target, than most oppenents, an uptick on Nige's stats.

But clearly some of our problems exist irrespective of Nige and Manning... Bell and Tanner have shown poor form under both managers (Bell started the season well and tailed off). Neither have had a fully firing Weimann or Wells. Neither have had Naismith for more than a cameo. Neither have had our new right back, and our new left back has barely featured. Neither have been able to get a substantial impact from Mehmeti or Yeboah. And Conway...

Conway, as far as I can see, has the exact same role under Manning as he did under Nige. He's still on his own up top, and appears to me to have the same roles and responsibilities as he did under Nige. But he looks a shadow of his former self.

You know more than me how frustrating it was that people on here were just waiting to pounce on every defeat that Nige had, and I feel it's possible that Manning is going to get the same treatment.

I'll reiterate that Nige should still be the manager. And I didn't even know who Manning was prior to the rumours about him. So I don't have a prejudice here. I just don't think Manning has done anything especially wrong so far, unless some defensive howlers and misfiring forwards are down to his guidance.

We're definitely in a bad place right now though.

 

Part of me wonders if Conway was rushed back too soon with Wells injured.

[Mr Popodopolous]

One more stat @TV Tom

QPR (A) 0-0 v 2-0..-2 pts, -2 GD

Middlesbrough (H) 3-2 v 2-2..+2 pts, +1 GD

Southampton (A) 0-1..We lost by 1 goal at all 3 sides who went up laat hear so take your pick, no change.

Norwich (H) 1-2 v 1-0..-3 pts, -2 GD

Huddersfield (A) 1-1 v 0-0..the same in both aspects.

Blackburn (A) 1-2 v 3-2..-3 pts, -2 GD.

P6W3D2L1F8A5Pts11GD+3

P6W1D2L3F6A8Pts5GD-2

The stability is gone. The win-draw-loss split is almost neatly turned on its head.

Under NP we were 3 to 5 and after the Fleming final game definitively 5 points better off better off from the equivalent 15. Let's hope it is just teething trouble because if not..

[Sheltons Army]

2 hours ago, mozo said:

Conway, as far as I can see, has the exact same role under Manning as he did under Nige. He's still on his own up top, and appears to me to have the same roles and responsibilities as he did under Nige. But he looks a shadow of his former self.

FWIW , Tommy is being asked to play differently - As he explained in his recent interview

The goals are not going in for him atm and his mojo hasn’t always sparkled recently , but clearly there has been something happening in his life (Someone suggested a family bereavement), and I suspect has affected him

 I remain confident his goals will return and hope we sort out a new contract with him asap 

[GrahamC]

28 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What games did we deserve to get more points than we got?

QPR? Nope. 

Southampton? Nope.

Norwich? Nope. 

Huddersfield? Nope. 

Blackburn? Nope. 

We've got exactly what we've deserved. Boro are still scratching their heads as to how we beat them. 

Just saying something doesn't make it true mate. 

Thr forum has become depressing because we've become depressing to watch. 

 

Certainly deserved something from the Norwich game.

Didn’t see Huddersfield but could have got something last night, marginal as to whether we deserved to.

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What games did we deserve to get more points than we got?

QPR? Nope. 

Southampton? Nope.

Norwich? Nope. 

Huddersfield? Nope. 

Blackburn? Nope. 

We've got exactly what we've deserved. Boro are still scratching their heads as to how we beat them. 

Just saying something doesn't make it true mate. 

Thr forum has become depressing because we've become depressing to watch. 

 

We’ve been depressing to watch for what seems like ages, it didn’t start five games ago

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

We’ve been depressing to watch for what seems like ages, it didn’t start five games ago

Yes. It was so depressing watching games like Swansea away. 

[Sir Geoff]

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes. It was so depressing watching games like Swansea away. 

I was distraught after Plymouth....only 4 goals

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes. It was so depressing watching games like Swansea away. 

And Hull (a) too.

[Bazooka Joe]

7 hours ago, TV Tom said:

You can play with figures and statistics as much as you like (no mention of Pearson's involvement in 16 home games without a win) personally i think if anything the performances have improved and have deserved more points than we've got despite our strikers under-performing.

This forum has become so depressing, since they got rid of Pearson.

Finished off your sentence for you.

And, if you think it's so depressing, you're not serving a sentance, so feel free to leave at any time.

[TV Tom]

14 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Finished off your sentence for you.

And, if you think it's so depressing, you're not serving a sentance, so feel free to leave at any time.

Thanks for the advice Joe but having been a regular at AG for 55 years and seen far worse times I’ll stick around

[Bazooka Joe]

1 minute ago, TV Tom said:

Thanks for the advice Joe but having been a regular at AG for 55 years and seen far worse times I’ll stick around

Glad to be of service.

By all means, stick around, and have your say, as you have licence to do so.

If you choose to switch to other channels on here, you may get a better reception than you've had on this one.

However, if you continue to find this forum depressing, for your own well-being, just pull the plug.

 

(55 years at AG is a very long sentance. What exactly did you do to deserve that ?)

[TV Tom]

57 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Glad to be of service.

By all means, stick around, and have your say, as you have licence to do so.

If you choose to switch to other channels on here, you may get a better reception than you've had on this one.

However, if you continue to find this forum depressing, for your own well-being, just pull the plug.

 

(55 years at AG is a very long sentance. What exactly did you do to deserve that ?)

I blame my dad who blamed his dad