Who’s going to take the hit?

[archie andrews]

8 hours ago, BristolFox said:

Leicester fan (originally from Bristol) so had a great interest in what’s happened with Pearson and felt the need to pass on my condolences for what a shitty decision your board has made (not the first one either, huh).

 

Now I think there’s a couple of obvious points to make here as to why this has gone badly so far.

 

In terms of Pearson’s style of management, he tends to build a family type atmosphere, with the project not just being about him, but about his coaches, the players, the fans all being as one - almost making him like a father figure (and I have no doubt that is why a lot of you liked him despite treading water in terms of league position for 3 seasons running).

 

Now I don’t know much about Manning, but he is certainly a lot younger and nowhere near as imposing in terms of character when compared to Pearson, so that is straight away a big and unbalancing change to have in the dressing room (especially as Pearson has always been very shrewd when it comes to appointing his coaches and some of those left too).
 
 

But that aside, Manning was doing alright at Oxford, did ok at MK too and got a great result in his first game for you against the Boro, so I figured ok - maybe he’ll do alright with you.

 

However, alarm bells did start to chime when I heard about Manning’s desire to shift in style of play, because whilst it’s commendable to want to play progressive passing football - if you had the calibre of players to pull that off it’s unlikely Manning would have been getting the job in the first place (you’d have attracted much more experienced and qualified managers to the job).

Add in the fact it is mid-season (where training time is scarce) and you had god knows how many players out injured to begin with anyway, trying to make changes to a style of play that clearly requires a lot of coaching before you’ve even had time to asses your squad, seems silly.
 

To properly pull that off and embed the team structure, the patterns of play, the way you want to press, how you want to defend, etc, etc, etc - you need a pre-season.

 

It’s not something that can be done in 3/4 training sessions inbetween playing 2 to 3 games in a week. This is the worst point in the season to try and pull something like that off. There’s a reason chairman hit the Allardyce button when a season becomes desperate! 
 

So in summary (TL/DL)

• The board has compounded it’s bad decision in sacking a manager that seemed to have the players on board by appointing a manager with such a stark deficit in character.

• Manning has then added to this issue by attempting to change to a footballing philosophy he doesn’t have the coaching time to implement.

 

One final point

 

Pearson had two spells with us.

 

He got unfairly treated when booted out for Sven BUT our owners clearly realised they had made a mistake and he came back - and that was the beginning of the fairy tail, so who knows… but you would probably need to get rid of Tinnion first! 

We'd probably put tinnion in charge again for the 2nd time..... 

[Numero Uno]

9 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

Or hopefully Tinnion. 

I stand by what I say, even if Manning wins the next five games we need a new Technical Director. Not fit for purpose. It's bad enough having one person running the football side who is clueless but to have two. The bloke promised us front foot, attacking football and recruited patient, possession based instead. "Yeah but Bri is a gert legend mind".............

Edited December 13, 2023 by Numero Uno

[Lewisdabaron]

9 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Tech director first, totally not right for role in my opinion.  Legends stay legends, don’t ruin it. 

Tinnion was never a “legend”

[Barrs Court Red]

Well let’s be honest, It won’t be any of the leadership, although I can see that Marshall(spl?) being the guy fingers get pointed at upstairs.  
 

Manning, rightly, should get a least a year.  Only scenario where that’s not true, is if relegation becomes likely. 

[Numero Uno]

7 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Well let’s be honest, It won’t be any of the leadership, although I can see that Marshall(spl?) being the guy fingers get pointed at upstairs.  
 

Manning, rightly, should get a least a year.  Only scenario where that’s not true, is if relegation becomes likely. 

Two people never seem to take any responsibility when it goes wrong, "be careful what you wish for" though............another way of saying it is "the incompetence foots the bill for it's own incompetence so consider yourselves lucky".

[Bazooka Joe]

8 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Manning, rightly, should get a least a year.  Only scenario where that’s not true, is if relegation becomes likely. 

Unfortunately, he's doing a great job of making relegation look likely.

So that could be a lot sooner than some think.

[Fuber]

7 hours ago, YorkshireSection said:

Tann has been extremely successful though, if it meant we got promoted to the prem and reached the fa cup final but played in say; yellow for a few months then I'd take that all day long. As far as football club owners go, Mr L is a huge failure.

Was more just about the control aspect and the criticism Tann attracted from Cardiff fans (re the colour change).

If SL had managed what Tann managed, or was as competent, and he isn't (not intefered much and just let a manager get on with his job), we wouldn't be talking about this mess and NP would still be here.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Lewisdabaron said:

Tinnion was never a “legend”

A term thrown around far too easily imo.

[hinsleburg]

It's just so so frustrating and we're genuinely at a point where Senior People at the club are incompetent or don't care!

Tinnion has wormed his way into a role he's not qualified for and I'm actually really gutted, after his Managerial spell he worked so hard, seemed to find a really good niche for himself and he'd managed to earn the respect of fans and staff alike. Now it's like he's lost a fight with his ego and wants to put the world to rights again and sadly just isn't capable, he's come across as really dislikeable and egotistical in his tweets and interviews and it's a real shame.

If the club wanted to go a different direction to Pearson anybody with an ounce of logic would have said to do it when we A) were safe from relegation and B) couldn't get promoted. We could then embed a new manager and give them time to mould a playing style and sign a few players. 

Right now it feels like we've got the right manager at the wrong time and by the time he gets his philosophies across the atmosphere with fans (and within the club) will be so toxic they won't be effective. This was never the guy to takeover mid season, clearly got a very defined way of playing which takes time and the right personnel, we have neither of those things right now.

Think the results last few weeks have shown just how much Pearson was actually getting out if these players and over performing, we now pass the ball more but aren't as exciting (imo) or effective and conceding goals for fun. I enjoyed watching us this season, we worked hard and we were direct (not hoofball) and competed for every ball until the whistle, that's all gone now. 

As alluded to, Manning doesn't get a free pass but I don't think this is his fault nor can he be criticised for taking the role as it could be seen as a great opportunity. The blame has to go right to the top!

We've got no leadership structure, no embedded philosophy and ultimately no idea. Unless there's changes behind the scenes, we are my very early bet for relegation next year, god I hope Manning is a miracle worker

[Davefevs]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

I agree that he would have understood the nature of the situation he was stepping into with Nige’s departure and with the nonsense expectations the board created, but I don’t agree that he shouldn’t have taken the job if he didn’t agree with them. 
The Bristol City job is a well respected one in football. It’s a Championship team. A relatively good sized club. Most managers would jump at the chance. 
He didn’t have to agree with everything the board said in order to take the job. 
 

I agree that he doesn’t get a free pass but I don’t agree that his expectations absolutely HAD to align with the drivel the hierarchy put out there. I think you’re being a tad unfair there mate. 

Gary Owers said on BBCRB post-game that he’d have got a dozen speeding tickets if he’d have been the Oxford manager being offered the City job!!

4 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Noted, and not a million miles away from your thinking. I think the likely scenario is that he knew he didn’t have what was stated squad wise/agreed fully with public expectations (and I genuinely believe he would have done due diligence), but either underestimated the depth of the situation he’d gone into (for example I don’t think his DD would have gone as far as the Ashton shitshow and Holden to contextualise where we were), or overestimated the “coachability” of the players/his ability as a coach to change things quickly.

It’s undoubtably, even with the ownership, an attractive job so I can understand the motivation. However, I mentioned Michael Appleton a few weeks ago as a coach who tried to make too many moves to bigger clubs too soon and ruined his reputation at a higher level. Part of the skill is knowing if you’re ready and the fit for your skill set. It’s possible Liam has got this horribly wrong on those fronts - irrespective of his alignment with the boards aims.

Underestimated the Championship, underestimated the skills of his adversaries in the opposing dugout???

[Silvio Dante]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Underestimated the Championship, underestimated the skills of his adversaries in the opposing dugout???

Possibly that as well. To return to an often made point, there is a big difference in quality of teams between L1 and the Champ - yes, you may get an Ipswich but more frequently you get a Rotherham. If the quality of teams is less at L1, it stands to reason the (general) quality of managers is better at the championship. They react quicker, adapt tactically better and counter you better.

I think, as I’ve said before, it’s in a large way why we are where we are. Liam had methods that worked in L1 (sometimes!) and has tried to impose those on our team as they are his philosophy. But they are also the philosophy of many modern coaches, so if everyone is doing it you need to be better. And our squad is not set up to be better at that game. Opponents (both managerial and players) then can counter and pick us off. Because they are simply better managers than he’s used to facing. And again, the lack of a plan B/adaptability in game (other than taking off Sykes) is a glaring to date hole when other managers have that quality.

The underestimation and sticking to a tactic not fitting the squad is as naive as if we’d played long balls to Riley and Neville.

[Swede]

It strikes me [& I'm not "in the know"] that Nige told the club where to stick it, so, although they were looking to relieve him of his duties, they had to bring forward their plans. Hence why everything is undercooked at the moment.

The Championship is a massive step up from League 1. It must be one of the most competitive leagues in the world with the imbalance of parachute payments to also contend with and the promise of premier league money at the end of it. Realistically, can we limp to the next transfer window and with the next Scott money instalment start to get those "possession based" players & a striker in? I think its a tall order.

As Pearson was such a strong personality, he had a fantastic rapport with the players and fans. Now we have someone who seems less assured, so you have to question his rapport with the players. Will he get the same out of them as Pearson did? I rather think not. I'm looking at James & Williams as examples, who have played under strong & experienced management types & for bigger clubs, will they be as enthusiastic with a coach who has a lot less experience than them?

I must confess to being very disillusioned and probably alienated with everything associated with the club. I find myself listening less to Manning's interviews as he trots out the same coaching speak. There has been a lot of damage done with this change of coach and without an upsurge of form, will ultimately affect season ticket renewals.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Swede said:

It strikes me [& I'm not "in the know"] that Nige told the club where to stick it, so, although they were looking to relieve him of his duties, they had to bring forward their plans. Hence why everything is undercooked at the moment.

The Championship is a massive step up from League 1. It must be one of the most competitive leagues in the world with the imbalance of parachute payments to also contend with and the promise of premier league money at the end of it. Realistically, can we limp to the next transfer window and with the next Scott money instalment start to get those "possession based" players & a striker in? I think its a tall order.

As Pearson was such a strong personality, he had a fantastic rapport with the players and fans. Now we have someone who seems less assured, so you have to question his rapport with the players. Will he get the same out of them as Pearson did? I rather think not. I'm looking at James & Williams as examples, who have played under strong & experienced management types & for bigger clubs, will they be as enthusiastic with a coach who has a lot less experience than them?

I must confess to being very disillusioned and probably alienated with everything associated with the club. I find myself listening less to Manning's interviews as he trots out the same coaching speak. There has been a lot of damage done with this change of coach and without an upsurge of form, will ultimately affect season ticket renewals.

I’m still not convinced Nige himself won over the fans, more the owners made themselves look bad, thus making Nige more popular.  Until the summer and the end of the window I don’t think Nige was hugely popular, but come the end of it, it was a different story.

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I stand by what I say, even if Manning wins the next five games we need a new Technical Director. Not fit for purpose. It's bad enough having one person running the football side who is clueless but to have two. The bloke promised us front foot, attacking football and recruited patient, possession based instead. "Yeah but Bri is a gert legend mind".............

People wonder why there is still a lot of anger about the place. 

Firstly we were lied to about NP leaving. Then the club embarked on a PR exercise and part of that was saying about what we were looking for in the new head coach. 

It now turns out they were lying to us about that too. 

[JP Hampton]

21 hours ago, BristolFox said:

However, alarm bells did start to chime when I heard about Manning’s desire to shift in style of play, because whilst it’s commendable to want to play progressive passing football - if you had the calibre of players to pull that off it’s unlikely Manning would have been getting the job in the first place (you’d have attracted much more experienced and qualified managers to the job).

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a brilliant observation. What’s important here is as you say;

“if you had the callibre of players to pull that off”

 Not only an experienced manager would have taken the job, but actually Nige would have pulled it off!
 

What Nige was, as your earlier comment suggests, “a father like figure” and I think (have no idea if there’s any truth in this) that perhaps some of the players, especially the younger ones are finding the transition to a less than “father like figure” pretty difficult. 
 

  If Nige was getting the best from the players we have and played to their strengths, the current overload of information and less intuitive, spontaneous position retaining tactics, will be a difficult ask and certainly not a quick result. 
 

  Observing what the team were already doing well, not trying to change the culture of an already together team spirit, would have allowed Manning to see what actually needed changing and what didn’t. 

[JP Hampton]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m still not convinced Nige himself won over the fans, more the owners made themselves look bad, thus making Nige more popular.  Until the summer and the end of the window I don’t think Nige was hugely popular, but come the end of it, it was a different story.

 I think you’re right but I think the changes happened slowly from the Christmas (last), up to then I think he definitely didn’t have the majority of fans on board. 
  I think what happened was a slow but steady realisation by fans, of what and who NP was, what’s he was dedicating himself to, his slowly building and successfully (albeit more often in the dressing room) growing a whole team approach. 
 

 I think the weeks before the sacking heightened that realisation and an awareness that NP was basically the manager and mouthpiece of the club as a whole and I think we all realised just what he’d managed to do across the board during his time here. The sacking and the nature of it really was the last straw. 
 

 

[Dr Balls]

11 minutes ago, JP Hampton said:

 I think you’re right but I think the changes happened slowly from the Christmas (last), up to then I think he definitely didn’t have the majority of fans on board. 
  I think what happened was a slow but steady realisation by fans, of what and who NP was, what’s he was dedicating himself to, his slowly building and successfully (albeit more often in the dressing room) growing a whole team approach. 
 

 I think the weeks before the sacking heightened that realisation and an awareness that NP was basically the manager and mouthpiece of the club as a whole and I think we all realised just what he’d managed to do across the board during his time here. The sacking and the nature of it really was the last straw. 
 

 

Putting it bluntly, Nige was the kind of person who would make a good mate by being honest with you. Upfront, told it how he saw it and felt it. No hidden agenda, just bringing people on board with his ideas. Fans slowly came on board with that as they realised he was just quietly getting on with what he had been tasked to do - cut the playing budget, bring through Academy players and keep us competitive in the Championship. That’s quite the equation to have to work out and not come a cropper.

Contrast that initial description of Nige with those who put him out of a job, and the difference is as stark as midday and midnight. Obfuscation, lies and waffling bullsh!t is all we have had from the “board” - all 2 of them, plus their new “Director of Football”. And now when it’s clear the plan is going wrong? Trappist-like in their silence…

[Fjmcity]

22 hours ago, watkins1983 said:

I honestly can’t believe the negativity after the first month under with Liam manning. We are kidding ourselves that we played a more positive game under Pearson? Yeh we might have been more drilled defensively than concede that late winner against Norwich, but would we have gone on and got a late winner against boro when throwing away a 2-0 lead? No chance

As much as I loved Nigel Pearson and what he did at the club with absolutely **** all money, he’s gone. Let’s  move on. 
I think we are playing better more attacking football already then we did under nige with the squad we have. Losses away to Blackburn and Southampton are part and parcel of a hard championship season. There would have been no surprise in losing these games under Pearson by a single goal?

Get behind the manager please 

COYR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well said, Pearson did a good job but was very functional in his play and bloody inconsistent in his results.

sick of hearing about him like we’ve gone and sacked Pep. Who people on this forum I am sure would find something to complain about with if he somehow ended up managing city. 

actually no, evil Jon lansdown and his loyal dog Brian tinnion probably would because they hired guardiola and not Pearson 

[Fuber]

21 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think it's worth pointing out that publicly, Steve Lansdown has had zero involvement in these decisions. 

This all seems very much Jon Lansdowns decision because suddenly he's decided his passion for the club has been reignited. 

Of course behind the scenes Lansdown Snr would have been involved in the decisions but to what extent who knows. 

It's very much Jon's club now.

No CEO means buck stops with the owner. When the Chairman, which in this case is family and therefore a nepotistic appointment, even more so.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Fuber said:

No CEO means buck stops with the owner. When the Chairman, which in this case is family and therefore a nepotistic appointment, even more so.

Albeit its not altogether uncommon.

Peter Coates  John Coates

Peter Coates is 85 now, does less and his son has stepped up in the last few seasons.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

41 minutes ago, JP Hampton said:

I think the weeks before the sacking heightened that realisation and an awareness that NP was basically the manager and mouthpiece of the club as a whole and I think we all realised just what he’d managed to do across the board during his time here. The sacking and the nature of it really was the last straw. 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, JP Hampton said:

 I think you’re right but I think the changes happened slowly from the Christmas (last), up to then I think he definitely didn’t have the majority of fans on board. 
  I think what happened was a slow but steady realisation by fans, of what and who NP was, what’s he was dedicating himself to, his slowly building and successfully (albeit more often in the dressing room) growing a whole team approach. 
 

 I think the weeks before the sacking heightened that realisation and an awareness that NP was basically the manager and mouthpiece of the club as a whole and I think we all realised just what he’d managed to do across the board during his time here. The sacking and the nature of it really was the last straw. 
 

 

100%.

Think the other factor at getting more onside re Nige was the fall out from the Scott deal.

Only the foolish or over optimistic seriously thought we wouldn’t sell him but no one expected the response to be to allow him to bring in a player on loan as the sole business as a result.

It made a few realise he was being set up to fail for no logical reason.

 

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’m still not convinced Nige himself won over the fans, more the owners made themselves look bad, thus making Nige more popular.  Until the summer and the end of the window I don’t think Nige was hugely popular, but come the end of it, it was a different story.

 

1 hour ago, JP Hampton said:

 I think you’re right but I think the changes happened slowly from the Christmas (last), up to then I think he definitely didn’t have the majority of fans on board. 
  I think what happened was a slow but steady realisation by fans, of what and who NP was, what’s he was dedicating himself to, his slowly building and successfully (albeit more often in the dressing room) growing a whole team approach. 
 

 I think the weeks before the sacking heightened that realisation and an awareness that NP was basically the manager and mouthpiece of the club as a whole and I think we all realised just what he’d managed to do across the board during his time here. The sacking and the nature of it really was the last straw. 
 

 

 

53 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

Well said, Pearson did a good job but was very functional in his play and bloody inconsistent in his results.

sick of hearing about him like we’ve gone and sacked Pep. Who people on this forum I am sure would find something to complain about with if he somehow ended up managing city. 

actually no, evil Jon lansdown and his loyal dog Brian tinnion probably would because they hired guardiola and not Pearson 

I’m glad this wider ‘Nige’ conversation is being had. 
His time here was very up and down and I do think that needs to be acknowledged. 
We all know the reasons given for removing him were a pile of old tosh, but I do think that his time here has been artificially enhanced because of how he’s been treated. 
 

Up until Boxing Day last year I would say there were a lot of fans who wanted him out and a lot of fans who were on the fence. There weren’t a huge amount at that time who were 100% happy with him. 
We’d had 18 months or so of pretty rotten football. Yes, there were reasons for that and we know the tough task he faced, but I do think that at Xmas last year most fans would have said that he should have been getting more from the squad and we certainly needed to improve home performances as we were being served up some pretty stodgy games at Ashton Gate. 
 

We then of course went on a 10 match unbeaten run and it looked like he had finally pieced things together. 
For me, the start of that unbeaten run coincided with 3 things : 1) reverting to 4 at the back, 2) Playing Scott in his best role, 3) at the start of that spell he had Semenyo firing (3 goals and an assist in 4 games before he moved). 
 

We won 4 and drew 6 and things were starting to look like they were coming together a little. 
But then we ended the season with 6 losses in our final 12 and it was clear we were going to miss Scott when he was inevitably going to leave. 
 

Come the end of the season I think Nige had done enough in that 10 game unbeaten spell to win over a few of his doubters, but he was by no means seen as the answer still. Again, I think everyone acknowledged the conditions he’d had to work under for 2 years but a lot of fans were still on the fence with him at that stage. But he’d done just about enough to have a little bit of credit in the bank. 
 

It was during the summer that the view on Pearson shifted considerably.  The Scott sale and the ensuing debacle around recruitment, resulted in fans turning their frustrations to the board and it was Nige who was now the man the fans were backing in a battle between Nige and the Board. In the eyes of the majority of fans, Nige deserved a shot and a bit of financial backing but it became evident that the board had other ideas. 
 

Off the field, the fans were now almost unanimously on Nigel’s side. 
The performances (and particularly the home games (still)) were continuing to underwhelm though. Dull v Preston, done by Brum, a good half and a poor half v West Brom, a good one v Plymouth, but poor again v Cov but scraped the win, unlucky but a mixed bag v Stoke, and ok-ish v Ipswich. 
We weren’t exactly setting the world alight and the home performances saw a couple of decent halves of football but mostly still toothless and sloppy football at times. Take out the Plymouth game and we’d scored 4 goals in 6 home matches! Was anyone honestly happy with this??! 

But again, Nige had credit in the bank with the fans as they were happy that we had a team that were giving their all and his reputation continued to be enhanced by the off field situation that had been brewing for a few months and was reaching boiling point. 
 

All in all, I don’t think we can look back on Nigel’s time as one where he was universally heralded. For much of his reign he was leaving a lot to be desired and it was only the battle with the board, the summer of 23 and the unbeaten run in Jan & Feb 23 which now sits fondly in the memories and is what I feel is influencing much of the sympathies with him. 
 

I must admit, back on Boxing Day last year I wanted him gone. But actually, over the next 9 months I did start to warm to him. But I think there is some rather wild revisionism going on with many fans and convincing themselves that we were getting somewhere with him - but I think this view is being clouded and influenced by the anger at the board. 
I wouldn’t have sacked him when we did. But I also don’t think I’d have renewed his contract after the end of the 23/24 season. I think what the board did was wrong and they will need to be judged on that, but I also think that there’s a lot of fans who wouldn’t have felt the same about him in May 23 as they do now. The battle with the board has firmly put Nige in the fans camp and is falsely influencing his standing in what was a tough 2 and half years but ultimately a pretty uninspiring one for the most part. 
 

Let’s just consider those home performances again this season. 4 goals in 6 games and some rather dull games. That’s not me trying to create a talking point, it’s a view that was widely read on here and other media - the home games were dull and disappointing in the main. 8 points out of 21 at home. It wasn’t great. 
I still maintain it was the wrong decision to take at that time, but I honesty can’t bring myself to revise history and claim that Nige was serving us up some scintillating football. 

[JP Hampton]

45 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

 

I’m glad this wider ‘Nige’ conversation is being had. 
His time here was very up and down and I do think that needs to be acknowledged. 
We all know the reasons given for removing him were a pile of old tosh, but I do think that his time here has been artificially enhanced because of how he’s been treated. 
 

Up until Boxing Day last year I would say there were a lot of fans who wanted him out and a lot of fans who were on the fence. There weren’t a huge amount at that time who were 100% happy with him. 
We’d had 18 months or so of pretty rotten football. Yes, there were reasons for that and we know the tough task he faced, but I do think that at Xmas last year most fans would have said that he should have been getting more from the squad and we certainly needed to improve home performances as we were being served up some pretty stodgy games at Ashton Gate. 
 

We then of course went on a 10 match unbeaten run and it looked like he had finally pieced things together. 
For me, the start of that unbeaten run coincided with 3 things : 1) reverting to 4 at the back, 2) Playing Scott in his best role, 3) at the start of that spell he had Semenyo firing (3 goals and an assist in 4 games before he moved). 
 

We won 4 and drew 6 and things were starting to look like they were coming together a little. 
But then we ended the season with 6 losses in our final 12 and it was clear we were going to miss Scott when he was inevitably going to leave. 
 

Come the end of the season I think Nige had done enough in that 10 game unbeaten spell to win over a few of his doubters, but he was by no means seen as the answer still. Again, I think everyone acknowledged the conditions he’d had to work under for 2 years but a lot of fans were still on the fence with him at that stage. But he’d done just about enough to have a little bit of credit in the bank. 
 

It was during the summer that the view on Pearson shifted considerably.  The Scott sale and the ensuing debacle around recruitment, resulted in fans turning their frustrations to the board and it was Nige who was now the man the fans were backing in a battle between Nige and the Board. In the eyes of the majority of fans, Nige deserved a shot and a bit of financial backing but it became evident that the board had other ideas. 
 

Off the field, the fans were now almost unanimously on Nigel’s side. 
The performances (and particularly the home games (still)) were continuing to underwhelm though. Dull v Preston, done by Brum, a good half and a poor half v West Brom, a good one v Plymouth, but poor again v Cov but scraped the win, unlucky but a mixed bag v Stoke, and ok-ish v Ipswich. 
We weren’t exactly setting the world alight and the home performances saw a couple of decent halves of football but mostly still toothless and sloppy football at times. Take out the Plymouth game and we’d scored 4 goals in 6 home matches! Was anyone honestly happy with this??! 

But again, Nige had credit in the bank with the fans as they were happy that we had a team that were giving their all and his reputation continued to be enhanced by the off field situation that had been brewing for a few months and was reaching boiling point. 
 

All in all, I don’t think we can look back on Nigel’s time as one where he was universally heralded. For much of his reign he was leaving a lot to be desired and it was only the battle with the board, the summer of 23 and the unbeaten run in Jan & Feb 23 which now sits fondly in the memories and is what I feel is influencing much of the sympathies with him. 
 

I must admit, back on Boxing Day last year I wanted him gone. But actually, over the next 9 months I did start to warm to him. But I think there is some rather wild revisionism going on with many fans and convincing themselves that we were getting somewhere with him - but I think this view is being clouded and influenced by the anger at the board. 
I wouldn’t have sacked him when we did. But I also don’t think I’d have renewed his contract after the end of the 23/24 season. I think what the board did was wrong and they will need to be judged on that, but I also think that there’s a lot of fans who wouldn’t have felt the same about him in May 23 as they do now. The battle with the board has firmly put Nige in the fans camp and is falsely influencing his standing in what was a tough 2 and half years but ultimately a pretty uninspiring one for the most part. 
 

Let’s just consider those home performances again this season. 4 goals in 6 games and some rather dull games. That’s not me trying to create a talking point, it’s a view that was widely read on here and other media - the home games were dull and disappointing in the main. 8 points out of 21 at home. It wasn’t great. 
I still maintain it was the wrong decision to take at that time, but I honesty can’t bring myself to revise history and claim that Nige was serving us up some scintillating football. 

Yes I’d agree with most of what you’ve said. I think we saw a manager who was persevering despite a lot of very challenging situations, but still somehow putting out a team who seemed to want to play for him. I think the accolades that have become apparent of how Nige conducted himself behind the scenes, with staff who play more minor roles in the functioning of BCFC, has added to the fan’s holding him in high regard. 
 

  I don’t think many people will remember him for his results, but for his general integrity and seemingly being completely up front about things which I for one found very refreshing. So when many fans say they want Nige back I’d say it’s more about the stability he gave and that with or without results, we trusted him. 

[Davefevs]

As you’ll know @Harry, I’ve always been right behind Nige, whilst admitting he was far from perfect.  I never wavered, rightly or wrongly. I think the time I’ve spent pouring over the finances (blame DG for setting me on that path 7 years ago), learning more and more about the off the pitch stuff gave me a different perspective as well as some additional insight we gleaned re recruitment made it clear this was a bloody tough task.

That’s why I took the ups and downs on the pitch - I kinda expected it..

Then meeting with Dave Rennie and hearing about some of the things they were trying to do, made we believe this summer was the chance to kick on, albeit massively dependent on how we used Semenyo’s money in the first half of the summer, then Alex’s later in the window.  And when I say kick-on, I never thought playoffs, I thought in the mix as long as possible, but eventually falling short, circa 10th/11th.

That really went out the window with the lack of investment after Scott left.  He left a massive hole.  He was our star, our difference-maker.  Whether Nige naively expected him to stay or was thinking that he could strengthen the squad with a couple of players, the fact that he didn’t / couldn’t, felt like a kick in the teeth.  The progress was slow, but it took 4 seasons for the contract cycles of 2019’s splurge to wash through.

The person who succeeded Nige would be taking over a football-side of the club in a much healthier state.  I thank him for that.

That person is Liam Manning.

He has my full support.

It is early days.

I bloody hope we can beat Sunderland to lift some early pressure on him.

 

[CityReds]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

 

 

I’m glad this wider ‘Nige’ conversation is being had. 
His time here was very up and down and I do think that needs to be acknowledged. 
We all know the reasons given for removing him were a pile of old tosh, but I do think that his time here has been artificially enhanced because of how he’s been treated. 
 

Up until Boxing Day last year I would say there were a lot of fans who wanted him out and a lot of fans who were on the fence. There weren’t a huge amount at that time who were 100% happy with him. 
We’d had 18 months or so of pretty rotten football. Yes, there were reasons for that and we know the tough task he faced, but I do think that at Xmas last year most fans would have said that he should have been getting more from the squad and we certainly needed to improve home performances as we were being served up some pretty stodgy games at Ashton Gate. 
 

We then of course went on a 10 match unbeaten run and it looked like he had finally pieced things together. 
For me, the start of that unbeaten run coincided with 3 things : 1) reverting to 4 at the back, 2) Playing Scott in his best role, 3) at the start of that spell he had Semenyo firing (3 goals and an assist in 4 games before he moved). 
 

We won 4 and drew 6 and things were starting to look like they were coming together a little. 
But then we ended the season with 6 losses in our final 12 and it was clear we were going to miss Scott when he was inevitably going to leave. 
 

Come the end of the season I think Nige had done enough in that 10 game unbeaten spell to win over a few of his doubters, but he was by no means seen as the answer still. Again, I think everyone acknowledged the conditions he’d had to work under for 2 years but a lot of fans were still on the fence with him at that stage. But he’d done just about enough to have a little bit of credit in the bank. 
 

It was during the summer that the view on Pearson shifted considerably.  The Scott sale and the ensuing debacle around recruitment, resulted in fans turning their frustrations to the board and it was Nige who was now the man the fans were backing in a battle between Nige and the Board. In the eyes of the majority of fans, Nige deserved a shot and a bit of financial backing but it became evident that the board had other ideas. 
 

Off the field, the fans were now almost unanimously on Nigel’s side. 
The performances (and particularly the home games (still)) were continuing to underwhelm though. Dull v Preston, done by Brum, a good half and a poor half v West Brom, a good one v Plymouth, but poor again v Cov but scraped the win, unlucky but a mixed bag v Stoke, and ok-ish v Ipswich. 
We weren’t exactly setting the world alight and the home performances saw a couple of decent halves of football but mostly still toothless and sloppy football at times. Take out the Plymouth game and we’d scored 4 goals in 6 home matches! Was anyone honestly happy with this??! 

But again, Nige had credit in the bank with the fans as they were happy that we had a team that were giving their all and his reputation continued to be enhanced by the off field situation that had been brewing for a few months and was reaching boiling point. 
 

All in all, I don’t think we can look back on Nigel’s time as one where he was universally heralded. For much of his reign he was leaving a lot to be desired and it was only the battle with the board, the summer of 23 and the unbeaten run in Jan & Feb 23 which now sits fondly in the memories and is what I feel is influencing much of the sympathies with him. 
 

I must admit, back on Boxing Day last year I wanted him gone. But actually, over the next 9 months I did start to warm to him. But I think there is some rather wild revisionism going on with many fans and convincing themselves that we were getting somewhere with him - but I think this view is being clouded and influenced by the anger at the board. 
I wouldn’t have sacked him when we did. But I also don’t think I’d have renewed his contract after the end of the 23/24 season. I think what the board did was wrong and they will need to be judged on that, but I also think that there’s a lot of fans who wouldn’t have felt the same about him in May 23 as they do now. The battle with the board has firmly put Nige in the fans camp and is falsely influencing his standing in what was a tough 2 and half years but ultimately a pretty uninspiring one for the most part. 
 

Let’s just consider those home performances again this season. 4 goals in 6 games and some rather dull games. That’s not me trying to create a talking point, it’s a view that was widely read on here and other media - the home games were dull and disappointing in the main. 8 points out of 21 at home. It wasn’t great. 
I still maintain it was the wrong decision to take at that time, but I honesty can’t bring myself to revise history and claim that Nige was serving us up some scintillating football. 

Great summary. If you look at what happened over Jan and the summer, Nige brought in some notable names but sort of lost it when the Scott transfer went through, then it all sort of started to unravel. Nige was making all the decisions but this one went over him and from above may have looked like the cart starting to lead the horse in a direction that wasn’t agreed.

Its no secret how vocal he was, from a fan perspective interesting to hear but a team perspective from that point the cracks started and kept on widening 

Edited December 14, 2023 by CityReds

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, Harry said:

 

 

I’m glad this wider ‘Nige’ conversation is being had. 
His time here was very up and down and I do think that needs to be acknowledged. 
We all know the reasons given for removing him were a pile of old tosh, but I do think that his time here has been artificially enhanced because of how he’s been treated. 
 

Up until Boxing Day last year I would say there were a lot of fans who wanted him out and a lot of fans who were on the fence. There weren’t a huge amount at that time who were 100% happy with him. 
We’d had 18 months or so of pretty rotten football. Yes, there were reasons for that and we know the tough task he faced, but I do think that at Xmas last year most fans would have said that he should have been getting more from the squad and we certainly needed to improve home performances as we were being served up some pretty stodgy games at Ashton Gate. 
 

We then of course went on a 10 match unbeaten run and it looked like he had finally pieced things together. 
For me, the start of that unbeaten run coincided with 3 things : 1) reverting to 4 at the back, 2) Playing Scott in his best role, 3) at the start of that spell he had Semenyo firing (3 goals and an assist in 4 games before he moved). 
 

We won 4 and drew 6 and things were starting to look like they were coming together a little. 
But then we ended the season with 6 losses in our final 12 and it was clear we were going to miss Scott when he was inevitably going to leave. 
 

Come the end of the season I think Nige had done enough in that 10 game unbeaten spell to win over a few of his doubters, but he was by no means seen as the answer still. Again, I think everyone acknowledged the conditions he’d had to work under for 2 years but a lot of fans were still on the fence with him at that stage. But he’d done just about enough to have a little bit of credit in the bank. 
 

It was during the summer that the view on Pearson shifted considerably.  The Scott sale and the ensuing debacle around recruitment, resulted in fans turning their frustrations to the board and it was Nige who was now the man the fans were backing in a battle between Nige and the Board. In the eyes of the majority of fans, Nige deserved a shot and a bit of financial backing but it became evident that the board had other ideas. 
 

Off the field, the fans were now almost unanimously on Nigel’s side. 
The performances (and particularly the home games (still)) were continuing to underwhelm though. Dull v Preston, done by Brum, a good half and a poor half v West Brom, a good one v Plymouth, but poor again v Cov but scraped the win, unlucky but a mixed bag v Stoke, and ok-ish v Ipswich. 
We weren’t exactly setting the world alight and the home performances saw a couple of decent halves of football but mostly still toothless and sloppy football at times. Take out the Plymouth game and we’d scored 4 goals in 6 home matches! Was anyone honestly happy with this??! 

But again, Nige had credit in the bank with the fans as they were happy that we had a team that were giving their all and his reputation continued to be enhanced by the off field situation that had been brewing for a few months and was reaching boiling point. 
 

All in all, I don’t think we can look back on Nigel’s time as one where he was universally heralded. For much of his reign he was leaving a lot to be desired and it was only the battle with the board, the summer of 23 and the unbeaten run in Jan & Feb 23 which now sits fondly in the memories and is what I feel is influencing much of the sympathies with him. 
 

I must admit, back on Boxing Day last year I wanted him gone. But actually, over the next 9 months I did start to warm to him. But I think there is some rather wild revisionism going on with many fans and convincing themselves that we were getting somewhere with him - but I think this view is being clouded and influenced by the anger at the board. 
I wouldn’t have sacked him when we did. But I also don’t think I’d have renewed his contract after the end of the 23/24 season. I think what the board did was wrong and they will need to be judged on that, but I also think that there’s a lot of fans who wouldn’t have felt the same about him in May 23 as they do now. The battle with the board has firmly put Nige in the fans camp and is falsely influencing his standing in what was a tough 2 and half years but ultimately a pretty uninspiring one for the most part. 
 

Let’s just consider those home performances again this season. 4 goals in 6 games and some rather dull games. That’s not me trying to create a talking point, it’s a view that was widely read on here and other media - the home games were dull and disappointing in the main. 8 points out of 21 at home. It wasn’t great. 
I still maintain it was the wrong decision to take at that time, but I honesty can’t bring myself to revise history and claim that Nige was serving us up some scintillating football. 

Pearson took us from near certain relegation to just a couple of points off the play offs whilst cutting rhe budget dramatically and bringing in 35 million pounds in transfer fees. 

That's an incredible job and one that I don't think many others would have done. 

But what you're doing here is saying "it wasn't all that great under NP so give LM some slack" 

The majority felt that those that did boo after the boxing day defeat to WBA were over reactionary. I don't remember there being a lot of fans wanting him out. 

You're trying to rewrite history. Yes we lost 2 in a row at home. But to describe games like Watford, Sheff Utd, Swansea etc etc as stodgy is ridiculous. You're just trying to fit things into your narrative. 

It's a bit bizarre that you're holding Nige to standards that you're not holding Manning to. That only suggests one thing. 

[exAtyeoMax]

20 hours ago, Natchfever said:

A term thrown around far too easily imo.

A legend in his own lunchtime 

[exAtyeoMax]

7 hours ago, Harry said:

 

 

I’m glad this wider ‘Nige’ conversation is being had. 
His time here was very up and down and I do think that needs to be acknowledged. 
We all know the reasons given for removing him were a pile of old tosh, but I do think that his time here has been artificially enhanced because of how he’s been treated. 
 

Up until Boxing Day last year I would say there were a lot of fans who wanted him out and a lot of fans who were on the fence. There weren’t a huge amount at that time who were 100% happy with him. 
We’d had 18 months or so of pretty rotten football. Yes, there were reasons for that and we know the tough task he faced, but I do think that at Xmas last year most fans would have said that he should have been getting more from the squad and we certainly needed to improve home performances as we were being served up some pretty stodgy games at Ashton Gate. 
 

We then of course went on a 10 match unbeaten run and it looked like he had finally pieced things together. 
For me, the start of that unbeaten run coincided with 3 things : 1) reverting to 4 at the back, 2) Playing Scott in his best role, 3) at the start of that spell he had Semenyo firing (3 goals and an assist in 4 games before he moved). 
 

We won 4 and drew 6 and things were starting to look like they were coming together a little. 
But then we ended the season with 6 losses in our final 12 and it was clear we were going to miss Scott when he was inevitably going to leave. 
 

Come the end of the season I think Nige had done enough in that 10 game unbeaten spell to win over a few of his doubters, but he was by no means seen as the answer still. Again, I think everyone acknowledged the conditions he’d had to work under for 2 years but a lot of fans were still on the fence with him at that stage. But he’d done just about enough to have a little bit of credit in the bank. 
 

It was during the summer that the view on Pearson shifted considerably.  The Scott sale and the ensuing debacle around recruitment, resulted in fans turning their frustrations to the board and it was Nige who was now the man the fans were backing in a battle between Nige and the Board. In the eyes of the majority of fans, Nige deserved a shot and a bit of financial backing but it became evident that the board had other ideas. 
 

Off the field, the fans were now almost unanimously on Nigel’s side. 
The performances (and particularly the home games (still)) were continuing to underwhelm though. Dull v Preston, done by Brum, a good half and a poor half v West Brom, a good one v Plymouth, but poor again v Cov but scraped the win, unlucky but a mixed bag v Stoke, and ok-ish v Ipswich. 
We weren’t exactly setting the world alight and the home performances saw a couple of decent halves of football but mostly still toothless and sloppy football at times. Take out the Plymouth game and we’d scored 4 goals in 6 home matches! Was anyone honestly happy with this??! 

But again, Nige had credit in the bank with the fans as they were happy that we had a team that were giving their all and his reputation continued to be enhanced by the off field situation that had been brewing for a few months and was reaching boiling point. 
 

All in all, I don’t think we can look back on Nigel’s time as one where he was universally heralded. For much of his reign he was leaving a lot to be desired and it was only the battle with the board, the summer of 23 and the unbeaten run in Jan & Feb 23 which now sits fondly in the memories and is what I feel is influencing much of the sympathies with him. 
 

I must admit, back on Boxing Day last year I wanted him gone. But actually, over the next 9 months I did start to warm to him. But I think there is some rather wild revisionism going on with many fans and convincing themselves that we were getting somewhere with him - but I think this view is being clouded and influenced by the anger at the board. 
I wouldn’t have sacked him when we did. But I also don’t think I’d have renewed his contract after the end of the 23/24 season. I think what the board did was wrong and they will need to be judged on that, but I also think that there’s a lot of fans who wouldn’t have felt the same about him in May 23 as they do now. The battle with the board has firmly put Nige in the fans camp and is falsely influencing his standing in what was a tough 2 and half years but ultimately a pretty uninspiring one for the most part. 
 

Let’s just consider those home performances again this season. 4 goals in 6 games and some rather dull games. That’s not me trying to create a talking point, it’s a view that was widely read on here and other media - the home games were dull and disappointing in the main. 8 points out of 21 at home. It wasn’t great. 
I still maintain it was the wrong decision to take at that time, but I honesty can’t bring myself to revise history and claim that Nige was serving us up some scintillating football. 

I don’t think anyone has said that, have they? All posts I’ve read recognise his work behind the scenes etc. 

[bexhill reds]

22 hours ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Well let’s be honest, It won’t be any of the leadership, although I can see that Marshall(spl?) being the guy fingers get pointed at upstairs.  
 

Manning, rightly, should get a least a year.  Only scenario where that’s not true, is if relegation becomes likely. 

We absolutely cannot be allowed to be relegated. It’s difficult enough to compete with ex-Prem teams with parachute payments, being relegated for a season or so would put us so much into a back foot with regard to income and budgets that we’d struggle to compete going forwards and become a Rotherham-like team, that being good enough for League One promotion but not good enough to stay up.

If Manning is unable to change it around and we get pulled into a relegation battle, then the trigger needs to be pulled, young coach with exciting ideas or not. Paging Mr Warnock for his annual getting a team out of the mire and keeping them up performance.