Front Foot Football

[CodeRed]

2 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Fox trot. 

Foxtrot Oscar ?

[BarnzFM]

Such a stupid phrase “front foot football”, I think it’s was Harry that rightly said nobody wants to play on the back foot 

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Interesting lots of different opinions of what the style is supposed to be, yet I have read loads of comments we don't have the players to play it, so if we don't really know what it means, how can we be so sure we don't have the players.

If we don't have the players, then which ones don't fit and why?

Hmm I think we do. Maybe could do with a creative attacking midfielder tho. 

What we don't have the players for, is Manning ball which is the polar opposite of front foot football.

[Numero Uno]

16 minutes ago, BarnzFM said:

Such a stupid phrase “front foot football”, I think it’s was Harry that rightly said nobody wants to play on the back foot 

Luckily for us it was only uttered by the Director of Football so nothing to worry about.

[redsquirrel]

24 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Luckily for us it was only uttered by the Director of Football so nothing to worry about.

would put it past it being a stammer if he was being questioned,  front footfoot ball

[redsquirrel]

9 minutes ago, redsquirrel said:

wouldnt put it past it being a stammer if he was being questioned,  front footfoot ball

 

[Davefevs]

36 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Luckily for us it was only uttered by the Director of Football so nothing to worry about.

LM Coaches Voice video.  Everybody knows the CFG philosophy - we wanna control possession, we wanna be attack minded, be on the front foot and wanna press”

[1960maaan]

Just a thought.

A few years ago we had a team that could attack, every time we went forward we would create something. But we would spend a lot of time chasing the ball and when it came to defending a lead we were shite. Sit deeper and deeper and quite often concede .

We can play front foot football , and play possession football . It just means picking your times.
I'd be happier if we started nicking the ball further up, win it back earlier . But if we can keep the ball, if we can control games we have a chance to win when we score just once. Something we have struggled with over the years. 

Man City aren't a defensive side, Liverpool play front foot , there are many ways to win games with similar ideas. We just need to find ours. 

Spoiler alert, I've been up the Pub. 

[Harry]

Quite easy for me. 
Front foot or back foot. 

If you’re on the back foot then you are conceding possession and territory, soaking up pressure and happy to play on the counter. 
 

If you’re on the front foot then you are controlling the ball, dominating territory and attempting to pressure the opposition and create chances. 
 

It’s basically, are you soaking up pressure or are you putting on the pressure. 
 

To counter some points, I don’t think it necessarily means “getting it forward quickly” as has been referenced with Liverpool and Spurs. It’s about controlling a game - possession, territory

[The Batman]

5 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Early goals also can assist with it, both in terms of perception and in terms of getting the crowd going which in turn pushes the side on.

Peak Mourinho mid 2000's. Go in front early, see out the game by being immensely organised as a defensive unit, hit on the counter and save energy for the next match. 

My first experience of Manning-ball tomorrow. Back home for the weekend so making most of it by watching City play. 

[tin]

Does possession and territory always equate to positive results, though? I don’t think so, but it’s how SL’s Barcelona fantasy play. 

Mourinho’s won everything going by playing counter-attacking football; Pep’s won everything by playing possession football.

I think it’s a load of shit, personally. We want to see winning football. Whether that’s dominating teams - like in the Wilson era - or grinding out results - like under GJ - it’s being competitive that matters IMO.

Edited December 15, 2023 by tin

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, The Batman said:

Peak Mourinho mid 2000's. Go in front early, see out the game by being immensely organised as a defensive unit, hit on the counter and save energy for the next match. 

My first experience of Manning-ball tomorrow. Back home for the weekend so making most of it by watching City play. 

A bit like some Simeone games. I watched an Atletico v Barcelona in 2014 CL QF when flicking through sky and to my surprise, Atletico were tearing into them.

Scored a goal, hit the woodwork 3 times in the first 10-15 mins. Possibly trying to feed off the crowd and get the game won early but it was a bit of a surprise.

They rightly have a reputation for being cautious among other things but they can mix it up..found them quite interesting tactically in that if they went behind in a bit game they would suddely surge for a good period, invariably score and perhaps score again battering the opposition before normal patterns re-emerge.

Capable of high pressing in phases but killing a game too.

My point is, front foot football can take different forms. I'd say imposing style on the opposition is a form of front foot.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

Quite easy for me. 
Front foot or back foot. 

If you’re on the back foot then you are conceding possession and territory, soaking up pressure and happy to play on the counter. 
 

If you’re on the front foot then you are controlling the ball, dominating territory and attempting to pressure the opposition and create chances. 
 

It’s basically, are you soaking up pressure or are you putting on the pressure. 
 

To counter some points, I don’t think it necessarily means “getting it forward quickly” as has been referenced with Liverpool and Spurs. It’s about controlling a game - possession, territory

What about a team that just passes it between its cbs for example? That's not front foot. That's side foot. 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

What about a team that just passes it between its cbs for example? That's not front foot. That's side foot. 

That wasn’t the question. 

[Engvall’s Splinter]

I see at as taking the game to your opponent. Not sitting back, waiting. Immediately looking to assert yourself over the opponent in both securing possession of the ball and being positive with it. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Engvall’s Splinter

[W-S-M Seagull]

17 minutes ago, Harry said:

That wasn’t the question. 

But it's my question. 

You said controlling possesion is front foot football. 

If the cbs are passing it between themselves and then maybe back to the keeper, that's controlling posession however it is very much NOT front foot football. 

[Harry]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

But it's my question. 

You said controlling possesion is front foot football. 

If the cbs are passing it between themselves and then maybe back to the keeper, that's controlling posession however it is very much NOT front foot football. 

I agree. 
Are you trying to insinuate that’s what we currently do? 
 

[Bristol Oil Services]

My concern is that we do not move our feet enough, when on the front foot we don't get forward far enough to get to the pitch of the ball, too often getting caught on the crease. And we don't know where our off stump is.

Nice ramp shot from TGH the other week, though.

[sunningdalered]

I'd be interested in other's opinion on whether you think players can be coached in the technique of receiving the ball whilst on the half-turn, so that their momentum is naturally forward, or whether it's in the DNA, and players either have it or not. 

Watching the Ipswich v Norwich game yesterday, the difference between the two teams in this respect was very noticeable. Ipswich, admittedly, are a talented side, and have a bunch of technically sound players, so they probably fancied it against a horrible Norwich team - which might have been a factor. 

Any prospect that LM can get our lot doing more than play it the way they are facing when receiving the ball? IMO this would be a big step in moving towards a more progressive style of play for us, and getting us on the front foot. Haven't really seen much of it since Alex left (which might be answering my own question!) 

[Port Said Red]

On 15/12/2023 at 20:54, 1960maaan said:

Just a thought.

A few years ago we had a team that could attack, every time we went forward we would create something. But we would spend a lot of time chasing the ball and when it came to defending a lead we were shite. Sit deeper and deeper and quite often concede .

We can play front foot football , and play possession football . It just means picking your times.
I'd be happier if we started nicking the ball further up, win it back earlier . But if we can keep the ball, if we can control games we have a chance to win when we score just once. Something we have struggled with over the years. 

Man City aren't a defensive side, Liverpool play front foot , there are many ways to win games with similar ideas. We just need to find ours. 

Spoiler alert, I've been up the Pub. 

I was going to say that there is a big difference between "front foot football" and "gung ho football", I think the Manager wants what you describe and some of the fans seem to be expecting the latter. 

We had one spell after we scored the goal yesterday where we tried to take advantage of Sunderland looking a bit nervy", but if we had kept throwing players forward they would have had even more chances than they created.

On 16/12/2023 at 11:48, Harry said:

I agree. 
Are you trying to insinuate that’s what we currently do? 

It's what he see's, presumably he thinks every pass should be forward even if it means giving the ball away because there isn't an option to pass to.

Personally I think Nahki coming back is key because he is so good at making angles to receive the ball from the defenders.

[REDOXO]

I don’t take a lot of notice of buzz phrases like front foot football. it’s a nonsense comment for the consumption of the idiots. 
 

Yesterday we defended for our lives and didn’t get that close to the football for long periods.
 

That was defend for your lives football that was supplemented by the best two saves anywhere in the country this weekend. 
 

City come out in the second half, as a friend said yesterday, wearing carpet slippers, nearly every week. I would be much more concerned about what is being said at ht as it rarely appears to have a positive effect. 
 

 

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, sunningdalered said:

I'd be interested in other's opinion on whether you think players can be coached in the technique of receiving the ball whilst on the half-turn, so that their momentum is naturally forward, or whether it's in the DNA, and players either have it or not. 

Watching the Ipswich v Norwich game yesterday, the difference between the two teams in this respect was very noticeable. Ipswich, admittedly, are a talented side, and have a bunch of technically sound players, so they probably fancied it against a horrible Norwich team - which might have been a factor. 

Any prospect that LM can get our lot doing more than play it the way they are facing when receiving the ball? IMO this would be a big step in moving towards a more progressive style of play for us, and getting us on the front foot. Haven't really seen much of it since Alex left (which might be answering my own question!) 

What dna would this be? There is no football gene. Football skill is learned and neural pathways are created by training (repetition).

Yes all players are coached to receive the ball on the half turn. Players consistently go through training that has them opening out to receive the ball on the back foot - On the half turn. Passing patterns and formation in diamonds and triangles can increase players opening out. 

The unconscious competency of this is learned, players with intense training that is integrated to playing style can open out their body as a reflex to the pattern of the game before them.

The answer to your question of how fast this can take to improve further is months and years depending on environment, playing approach, training and the individuals ability. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Cowshed

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, sunningdalered said:

I'd be interested in other's opinion on whether you think players can be coached in the technique of receiving the ball whilst on the half-turn, so that their momentum is naturally forward, or whether it's in the DNA, and players either have it or not. 

Watching the Ipswich v Norwich game yesterday, the difference between the two teams in this respect was very noticeable. Ipswich, admittedly, are a talented side, and have a bunch of technically sound players, so they probably fancied it against a horrible Norwich team - which might have been a factor. 

Any prospect that LM can get our lot doing more than play it the way they are facing when receiving the ball? IMO this would be a big step in moving towards a more progressive style of play for us, and getting us on the front foot. Haven't really seen much of it since Alex left (which might be answering my own question!) 

Yes, they can be coached, and they have to practice it.  I suspect most of them, if not all of them can do it now…it’s doing it against their equals (or superior players) in the heat of a Championship game that’s hard bit.

If you watch the early portion of the Norwich game, look how often they just got rid of the ball, when put under pressure.

[bcfc01]

On 15/12/2023 at 21:00, Harry said:

Quite easy for me. 
Front foot or back foot. 

If you’re on the back foot then you are conceding possession and territory, soaking up pressure and happy to play on the counter. 
 

If you’re on the front foot then you are controlling the ball, dominating territory and attempting to pressure the opposition and create chances. 
 

It’s basically, are you soaking up pressure or are you putting on the pressure. 
 

To counter some points, I don’t think it necessarily means “getting it forward quickly” as has been referenced with Liverpool and Spurs. It’s about controlling a game - possession, territory

Exactly this 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

On 15/12/2023 at 20:35, Davefevs said:

LM Coaches Voice video.  Everybody knows the CFG philosophy - we wanna control possession, we wanna be attack minded, be on the front foot and wanna press”

CFG ????

[BCFC Rich]

48 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

CFG ????

(Man) City Football Group. the video is from his time working for them. 

[ExiledAjax]

On 15/12/2023 at 20:35, Davefevs said:

LM Coaches Voice video.  Everybody knows the CFG philosophy - we wanna control possession, we wanna be attack minded, be on the front foot and wanna press”

Interesting.

I think "be on the front foot" means something quite different to "front foot football" as most have been describing it in this thread.

I think "on the front foot", when said by a coach in relation to CFG and a "philosophy", specifically means literally receiving and playing the ball with the front foot - the foot closest to whoever has last touched the ball.

I think that is different to "attacking, dominant, progressive football that gains territory and imposes yourself on the opponent".

It's a subtle difference in language and phraseology but I think that is again quite important.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

11 hours ago, BCFC Rich said:

(Man) City Football Group. the video is from his time working for them. 

How is any of our unfit for top six squad going to understand or be able to use anything that is used at Manchester City one of if not the best team in the world 

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

How is any of our unfit for top six squad going to understand or be able to use anything that is used at Manchester City one of if not the best team in the world 

City Football Group, obviously Man City are the apex but it also includes:

Girona (La Liga)

Palermo, that famous old club now part of CFG- Italy of course.

Think one in Melbourne, one somewhere in USA.

Many more, haven't time to check atm, one in South America too without doubt.

https://www.cityfootballgroup.com/our-clubs/

Edited December 18, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

How is any of our unfit for top six squad going to understand or be able to use anything that is used at Manchester City one of if not the best team in the world 

Because successful principles will benefit any team. Obviously you adjust them as per the ability level and aptitude of the players.