Harry Cornick

[Bobtherobin]

I think he is OK for a 300k squad player. Weve certainly had plenty of worse signings over the last 5 or 6 years that cost a lot more. Its funny how people get on a bit of a negative bandwagon about someone and it spirals. 

[Engvall’s Splinter]

6 hours ago, Swede said:

I can't agree with you there pal. He wins a lot of headers which is mainly down to his good timing. He reads the game better than some of our younger talent and is prepared to put in a shift for the team.

Wins lots of headers? You sure?

[Redrascal2]

40 minutes ago, Ryan said:

I think he is OK for a 300k squad player. Weve certainly had plenty of worse signings over the last 5 or 6 years that cost a lot more. Its funny how people get on a bit of a negative bandwagon about someone and it spirals. 

I cannot understand the logic of assessing a player by how much he costs compared to his ability. Cornick in my view is not good enough to be a Championship player and crucially seldom scores goals. The fact he only cost 300k means we haven't wasted a lot of money but does not change the fact he is not good enough.

[BCFC Rich]

5 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

I cannot understand the logic of assessing a player by how much he costs compared to his ability. Cornick in my view is not good enough to be a Championship player and crucially seldom scores goals. The fact he only cost 300k means we haven't wasted a lot of money but does not change the fact he is not good enough.

Cornick pretty much only gets to be a sub when we have lost, or are hanging onto a result. He very rarely has had a start. He plays the role of someone brought on in those situations really well. 

[robinforlife2]

He seems to get sympathy because he is a "squad player" and people see him as 2nd or 3rd choice, therefore expectation is lowered by some. However, he was brought in to replace Chris Martin, who many were saying shouldn't be playing, was a waste of a space on the bench etc. Martins legs had gone, wasn't good enough. So, Martin left, and we replaced him with someone who cost us another 300K, is probably on double what Chris Martin was on, and is not even a step up on Chris Martin. Martin may have regressed to a point that he wasn't good enough, but he still had the odd goal in him and done a job. Cornick has offered little, has cost money, is on a bigger wage than the player he replaced, and is barely better than the player he replaced. At Cornick's age, there was never going to be any sell on value in him, and he will be on pretty close to 10K a week, as an experienced player with goals to his name, he was never going to be on a League One or League Two wage, that's for sure. So, the facts are, at the end of the season, we will probably look to replace him. either loaning him out, or letting him go on a free, as Manning will want to bring in first team players, so any fringe players will drop down the pecking order. By this time, he will have cost us over £1m. This is not money well spent at all.  We could have signed an aging ex prem experienced impact player on 10-20K a week, to support the squad over the course of a year to eighteen months, and they would have had a equal or better effect, but also been able to guide our youth and help younger players learn. 

I've no doubt that Cornick tries his best, but that isn't a free pass for being totally and utterly out of his depth at this level. 

[bexhill reds]

1 minute ago, robinforlife2 said:

He seems to get sympathy because he is a "squad player" and people see him as 2nd or 3rd choice, therefore expectation is lowered by some. However, he was brought in to replace Chris Martin, who many were saying shouldn't be playing, was a waste of a space on the bench etc. Martins legs had gone, wasn't good enough. So, Martin left, and we replaced him with someone who cost us another 300K, is probably on double what Chris Martin was on, and is not even a step up on Chris Martin. Martin may have regressed to a point that he wasn't good enough, but he still had the odd goal in him and done a job. Cornick has offered little, has cost money, is on a bigger wage than the player he replaced, and is barely better than the player he replaced. At Cornick's age, there was never going to be any sell on value in him, and he will be on pretty close to 10K a week, as an experienced player with goals to his name, he was never going to be on a League One or League Two wage, that's for sure. So, the facts are, at the end of the season, we will probably look to replace him. either loaning him out, or letting him go on a free, as Manning will want to bring in first team players, so any fringe players will drop down the pecking order. By this time, he will have cost us over £1m. This is not money well spent at all.  We could have signed an aging ex prem experienced impact player on 10-20K a week, to support the squad over the course of a year to eighteen months, and they would have had a equal or better effect, but also been able to guide our youth and help younger players learn. 

I've no doubt that Cornick tries his best, but that isn't a free pass for being totally and utterly out of his depth at this level. 

Look at the video that’s been attached to this thread, the player in there is not utterly out of his depth at this level, 10 mins here or there, usually towards the end end of the game where we are either absolutely going for it or trying to shore up is not going to bring a player back to form nor is it going to play to his strengths. By your definition using Martin as a baseline Conway is utterly out of his depth too.

Give him a run of 6 or 7 games starting and I think we’ll see a different Cornick. 

[Davefevs]

@robinforlife2 I very much doubt that Harry Cornick is on more than what what Chris Martin was on. Martin signed pre-Covid. Martin had also become disruptive according to Nige through lack of game time.

At the time, Cornick seemed a sensible signing. It hasn’t gone to plan. It hasn’t cost us a fortune and he still contributes, just not as much as we’d hoped.

Had Cornick not had a heavy touch on Saturday, most on here had been saying that he’s been playing a bit better and vying for a start because he’s been doing alright off the bench.

But we let one action put him back to square one in peoples minds!

[Super]

3 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Wins lots of headers? You sure?

Think i missed that one.

[supercidered]

10 hours ago, pongo88 said:

This is what you call thin legs

Looks like a pair of Golf Clubs.

[pongo88]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@robinforlife2 I very much doubt that Harry Cornick is on more than what what Chris Martin was on. Martin signed pre-Covid. Martin had also become disruptive according to Nige through lack of game time.

At the time, Cornick seemed a sensible signing. It hasn’t gone to plan. It hasn’t cost us a fortune and he still contributes, just not as much as we’d hoped.

Had Cornick not had a heavy touch on Saturday, most on here had been saying that he’s been playing a bit better and vying for a start because he’s been doing alright off the bench.

But we let one action put him back to square one in peoples minds!

That’s the whole point - he did have a heavy touch. For all his effort he just hasn’t got the skill and goal scoring instinct City need 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

@robinforlife2 I very much doubt that Harry Cornick is on more than what what Chris Martin was on. Martin signed pre-Covid. Martin had also become disruptive according to Nige through lack of game time.

At the time, Cornick seemed a sensible signing. It hasn’t gone to plan. It hasn’t cost us a fortune and he still contributes, just not as much as we’d hoped.

Had Cornick not had a heavy touch on Saturday, most on here had been saying that he’s been playing a bit better and vying for a start because he’s been doing alright off the bench.

But we let one action put him back to square one in peoples minds!

The first bit was when I stopped reading, embarrassing nonsense.

He actually said “double” totally clueless.

With Wells on the way back & Manning apparently after another forward I do think his time here is going to get even more marginal & we should have a conversation with him about that, which is a completely different thing.

Edited December 19, 2023 by GrahamC

[Steve Watts]

3 hours ago, robinforlife2 said:

He seems to get sympathy because he is a "squad player" and people see him as 2nd or 3rd choice, therefore expectation is lowered by some. However, he was brought in to replace Chris Martin, who many were saying shouldn't be playing, was a waste of a space on the bench etc. Martins legs had gone, wasn't good enough. So, Martin left, and we replaced him with someone who cost us another 300K, is probably on double what Chris Martin was on, and is not even a step up on Chris Martin. Martin may have regressed to a point that he wasn't good enough, but he still had the odd goal in him and done a job. Cornick has offered little, has cost money, is on a bigger wage than the player he replaced, and is barely better than the player he replaced. At Cornick's age, there was never going to be any sell on value in him, and he will be on pretty close to 10K a week, as an experienced player with goals to his name, he was never going to be on a League One or League Two wage, that's for sure. So, the facts are, at the end of the season, we will probably look to replace him. either loaning him out, or letting him go on a free, as Manning will want to bring in first team players, so any fringe players will drop down the pecking order. By this time, he will have cost us over £1m. This is not money well spent at all.  We could have signed an aging ex prem experienced impact player on 10-20K a week, to support the squad over the course of a year to eighteen months, and they would have had a equal or better effect, but also been able to guide our youth and help younger players learn. 

I've no doubt that Cornick tries his best, but that isn't a free pass for being totally and utterly out of his depth at this level. 

You're contradicting yourself in the first two points emboldened above.  So is he better than the player he replaced or not?

As for the second bit if your wages assumption is partially based on "with goals to his name" then that's where you're going wrong.  He "boasts" a 1 in 7 record.  That does not command a £10k salary and there's no way he was on that at Luton where he was unwanted.  As Fevs says it's highly unlikely he'll ever be on that money, so you're gonna need a better stick than that to beat him with.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's been a successful signing at all, but I also don't think we play the right system for him as he most certainly isn't a loan striker.

[robinforlife2]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

@robinforlife2 I very much doubt that Harry Cornick is on more than what what Chris Martin was on. Martin signed pre-Covid. Martin had also become disruptive according to Nige through lack of game time.

At the time, Cornick seemed a sensible signing. It hasn’t gone to plan. It hasn’t cost us a fortune and he still contributes, just not as much as we’d hoped.

Had Cornick not had a heavy touch on Saturday, most on here had been saying that he’s been playing a bit better and vying for a start because he’s been doing alright off the bench.

But we let one action put him back to square one in peoples minds!

Maybe not by when Martin signed, but I'm sure he extended during our wage cutting stage did he not? I think by the time he left, what Cornick is on now, is more than what Martin was on when he left. IMO, Wells is a far better option than Cornick either to start or off the bench. Yes, I agree he looked a sensible signing on paper, but I doubt he is as cheap a signing as people think. In January, Luton were up there, and ended up promoted. Cornick left for more football, but was still getting odd games at Luton. If anything the role he had last season at Luton, is the same one he's having now. He wont be on peanuts, I think the transfer fee has given people the idea he will be on low money, he wont be. He'll be one of our top earners, but not playing or performing like one. I don't calls for him to start, are a reflection on how he is playing, but more on how poorly others like Conway and Bell are playing, and people think we should mix it up. If you think a player will leave a top 10 Championship side when they are pushing for the playoffs, to join a midtable side on a low wage, I'm surprised and thought you were more knowledgeable than that. Cornick is an experienced Championship player, who has scored goals at this level. He will be one of our top earners under the new structure. The talk of him being low cost is insane. A 28yo at the peak of his career with maybe one move left in him, was not coming to be on a lower wage, he will most definitely be in the 10-12K a week bracket and be one of our top earners. Capology has him on a predicted wage of 15K a week. I'm not saying that is accurate, but I don't think it's miles off the mark.

My point is, people are forgiving his poor performances thinking he is low cost. If it was revealed he was one of our highest earners, which I strongly suspect he is and any data out there actually indicates, I doubt most fans would be as forgiving for the disappointing signing he has been. 

Luton seemed happy to get rid, people are saying look at the video from the 21-22 season, but we are a season and a half later and not long after that video reel, he started to get picked less and less by Luton and ended up being sold to us, for a low fee. This whilst being at a peak selling age of just turned 27! Something doesn't add up to me. 

He has himself in interviews always said he was very fit, one of the fittest on the pitch, but was never one of the best players. It could be the legs are starting the go, the fitness levels can't be maintained and as a result, I think Luton saw this, and decided to move him on, before he became the player we got rid of in Chris Martin. I just feel, as if by fate, we replaced Chris Martin with an identical player, only a few years junior, but on the start of a downward trajectory. I think Luton knew it themselves, and maybe Harry knows it as well, which is why he is playing with no confidence at all, and nothing is connecting for him. 

It's nothing against him, he gives his best, but I honestly feel, we've inherited a regressive player, and those who are labelling him low cost because of his transfer fee, are being kind. As one of our top earners, he is anything but low cost, and we've got him for another 2 and a half years on this contract!

[robinforlife2]

https://www.capology.com/player/harry-cornick-34798/

Capology which is largely accurate, do not have him on a low salary. 

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/the-estimated-average-weekly-wage-of-a-bristol-city-player-in-the-202324-squad/#:~:text=Bristol City's highest earners&text=Centre-back Rob Atkinson (£,among the other higher earners.

Then you have this.

https://salarysport.com/football/player/harry-cornick/

Salary Sport have him on £8000

https://www.bristolworld.com/sport/football/bristol-city/bristol-citys-highest-and-lowest-paid-players-according-to-football-manager-2023-photo-gallery-4063191?page=5

Bristol World say £7500

https://www.fifaindex.com/player/216155/harry-cornick/fifa24/

Fifa index have him at £18000, whilst Football Manager have at £15000. Both of these companies do a lot of research into these matters.

 

I don't know what he is on, but I am sure he is somewhere in the mix of a lot of those figures at 10-12K. he is not on as low as people think, which is in agreement with a lot of the data sites above. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by robinforlife2

[robinforlife2]

3 hours ago, bexhill reds said:

Look at the video that’s been attached to this thread, the player in there is not utterly out of his depth at this level, 10 mins here or there, usually towards the end end of the game where we are either absolutely going for it or trying to shore up is not going to bring a player back to form nor is it going to play to his strengths. By your definition using Martin as a baseline Conway is utterly out of his depth too.

Give him a run of 6 or 7 games starting and I think we’ll see a different Cornick. 

21-22 season that video. He started playing less and less after that, the answer to that question of why that was, no one knows. Maybe that's what we are finding out. The Harry Cornick in the video, is not the same Harry Cornick we are seeing now, that's for sure. 

[Riaz]

On 17/12/2023 at 09:38, Redminer said:

Not for me, nor any of the many people I've spoken to. Don't see what he offers. Never looks like scoring, runs around aimlessly, rarely wins a header and that long throw ain't that long. Does anyone see a strength he offers us? 

And he's even got his own song!

Hopefully Wells will be ready to start or come on against Hull, was it too early for him today?

 

He works his bollocks off - harrasses defenders - wins the ball back and is physically imposing. Has pace and does score a goal or two.

Not the most technically gifted - but causes problems for opposition defenders.

If you cant see that, then maybe a trip to specsavers is in order.

I'd much rather him than Chris Martin, who he replaced.

[Gol]

11 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

https://www.capology.com/player/harry-cornick-34798/

Capology which is largely accurate, do not have him on a low salary. 

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/the-estimated-average-weekly-wage-of-a-bristol-city-player-in-the-202324-squad/#:~:text=Bristol City's highest earners&text=Centre-back Rob Atkinson (£,among the other higher earners.

Then you have this.

https://salarysport.com/football/player/harry-cornick/

Salary Sport have him on £8000

https://www.bristolworld.com/sport/football/bristol-city/bristol-citys-highest-and-lowest-paid-players-according-to-football-manager-2023-photo-gallery-4063191?page=5

Bristol World say £7500

https://www.fifaindex.com/player/216155/harry-cornick/fifa24/

Fifa index have him at £18000, whilst Football Manager have at £15000. Both of these companies do a lot of research into these matters.

 

I don't know what he is on, but I am sure he is somewhere in the mix of a lot of those figures at 10-12K. he is not on as low as people think, which is in agreement with a lot of the data sites above. 

None of those websites are accurate. To be accurate they would have to be inside every clubs payroll. On top of the sheer impossibility of that there would be massive GDPR implications quite simply it would be illegal. 
 

the only indicator we have that has any merit is the companies accounts and these  would not show in individual salaries

18 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

I agree he looked a sensible signing on paper, but I doubt he is as cheap a signing as people think. In January, Luton were up there, and ended up promoted. Cornick left for more football, but was still getting odd games at Luton. If anything the role he had last season at Luton, is the same one he's having now. He wont be on peanuts, I think the transfer fee has given people the idea he will be on low money, he wont be.

Luton have one of the lowest wage budget in the league, their last set of accounts for the 21/22 season showed they spent £15m in wages (for reference we spent £20.8m)

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06133975/filing-history

[Numero Uno]

10 minutes ago, Gol said:

None of those websites are accurate. To be accurate they would have to be inside every clubs payroll. On top of the sheer impossibility of that there would be massive GDPR implications quite simply it would be illegal. 
 

the only indicator we have that has any merit is the companies accounts and these  would not show in individual salaries

Luton have one of the lowest wage budget in the league, their last set of accounts for the 21/22 season showed they spent £15m in wages (for reference we spent £20.8m)

 

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06133975/filing-history

Not to mention that the make-up of a footballer's salary at the higher levels of the game can be quite convoluted. It's exactly as you say, confidential information that is "guesswork" and you have people coming on here stating as fact that these sites are "accurate"...........the same people who would no doubt totally lose their shit and take their Employer to court if their salary details were disclosed to all and sundry.

[Super]

30 minutes ago, Riaz said:

He works his bollocks off - harrasses defenders - wins the ball back and is physically imposing. Has pace and does score a goal or two.

Not the most technically gifted - but causes problems for opposition defenders.

If you cant see that, then maybe a trip to specsavers is in order.

I'd much rather him than Chris Martin, who he replaced.

He works hard. That seems to be good enough for some fans.

[Riaz]

6 minutes ago, Super said:

He works hard. That seems to be good enough for some fans.

If its effective, then yes

[Super]

2 minutes ago, Riaz said:

If its effective, then yes

Think we saw that on Saturday.

[The Swan and Cemetery]

1 minute ago, Riaz said:

If its effective, then yes

And not much more we can ask of the player themselves. We can be angry about purse strings and recruitment quality etc, but the tone of voice from some that the player is in some way at fault is odd to me. If not trying, fair enough, but difficult for him to convert himself into something he isn’t. I’m with @Davefevs that one error and pile on ensues. 

[Super]

1 minute ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

And not much more we can ask of the player themselves. We can be angry about purse strings and recruitment quality etc, but the tone of voice from some that the player is in some way at fault is odd to me. If not trying, fair enough, but difficult for him to convert himself into something he isn’t. I’m with @Davefevs that one error and pile on ensues. 

It was more him failing to hold the ball up and basically not winning anything which is what he was brought on to do. 

[ExiledAjax]

35 minutes ago, Gol said:

None of those websites are accurate. To be accurate they would have to be inside every clubs payroll. 

Having seen one or two player contracts I can say that Capology and Football Manager are pretty accurate on quite a few players.

Also, based on the contracts I've seen I'd say that an estimate for Cornick of something around £12-15k per week is about right.

[Davefevs]

@robinforlife2 Martin is very likely to have triggered his extra year based on the same terms of the deal he signed when signing for Holden.  Nobody inserts an extra year option on lower than existing terms do they?  It was his option, not a club one.  That’s the point, e.g. if I prove I can play 30+ league games, then I’m good to carry on earning the sane next season.

19 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Having seen one or two player contracts I can say that Capology and Football Manager are pretty accurate on quite a few players.

Also, based on the contracts I've seen I'd say that an estimate for Cornick of something around £12-15k per week is about right.

And pretty inaccurate, out of date, etc, for many too.

Anyway, back to the Cornick evaluation.  He’s not been great overall, but this season he’s been effective coming off the bench.  Has he justified fee and wages (assume a ball-park)?  Probably not.  But he’s an established Championship player.  He proved himself effective at Luton over a period of time.  Our recruitment department obviously felt he had something, because he was on our list for at least 12 months, monitoring his situation.

I don’t think a few heavy touches at times this season warrants the stick he gets against his overall contribution.

Some transfers aren’t a success. We are reducing the number of those, and those that aren’t a success seem to be low fee players, thankfully.

 

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

And pretty inaccurate, out of date, etc, for many too.

Probably. I'm not saying they're gospel, but they are more than just wild guesses.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Probably. I'm not saying they're gospel, but they are more than just wild guesses.

Yep, I suspect those that are up to date, are reasonable ball-parks.  It’s when you get players like Danny Simpson, who someone has lazily taken his Huddersfield ball-park wage, not taken account his time without a contract, and just stuck £18k p.w (or whatever it was) in when he signed for City, that it loses credibility.

It doesn’t seem to take into account things like that, relegation reductions, players going OOC and dropping levels either in terms of division or profile of club, etc.

So some have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I wouldn’t post on here or lay claim  on a pod, that player x is on £x p.w.  I might say “I reckon he’s in this ball-park”.  And some of that rationale is based on what people like Richard Gould have said in the past around wages and recruitment,

[Topper 123]

On 17/12/2023 at 09:42, Son of Fred said:

This is why I have zero faith in our recruitment team...

The bloke looked like he had his boots on the wrong feet yesterday..

Why is our recruitment only around the U.K. there must be players abroad that are willing to come to the U.K. on a 3 year contract.we must be the only team in championship without a foreign player 

[johnbytheriver]

Looking at that video i cannot believe its the same player!

[Mr Popodopolous]

On 17/12/2023 at 11:54, Davefevs said:

Don’t you think our recent recruitment is much improved…especially with the budgets allowed…and our place in the pecking order.  We are not wasting money, it’s all pretty frugal stuff.

Atkinson, Dickie, Knight, Sykes (free), TGH all “very good” signings?

Add that to James (free), Tanner and Naismith (free) as “decent” signings?  I think Roberts (free) and McCrorie (at different stages of their careers and expectations) will be fine too.

Wilson you could argue was duff, but we don’t know how much his injury impacted him.  He’s playing regularly for Derby now fit.

Cornick I get the frustration.  Mehmeti is still young, bought for now and the future.

 

Injury impacted Wilson and then to a back 4, bit unlucky all told but a RB he probably isn't.

Ideally someone who can slot into RB and RWB.