Give the man some credit

[Woofyourkipper]

14 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Ridiculous how quickly some are writing him off. It’s not his fault that Pearson was sacked. It’s a solid start for him now. Give the guy a fair chance.

Spot on

i will always back a city manager as much as possible,I’m a Pearson fan and his sacking stunk of s**t,but,like you say it’s not manning’s.He is getting them playing and that’s all that counts,Pearson is gone now,I’ll cherish the time he was here but now it’s manning’s turn to run this team,hopefully to a great success

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What does that mean?

It means we went back to playing a way which suits us, like how we played under Pearson. 

[Numero Uno]

3 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Nobody knows what the results would have been under NP & it's a waste of time considering it - but I'm pretty certain that a stat comparison would back up the (pointless) claims.

Very, very rarely did we win back to back games under NP - especially against 2 top six sides.

Very rarely, if ever, did we win 3 out of 4 home games under NP.

Without looking it up, I'd suspect that LM's PPG stats are already better than at any point under NP, over a similar number of games (of course that can changes ina game or 2 at this early stage)

There is little to argue in that we seem to be creating more shots at goal than under NP & that can only help make games better to watch & help improve results.

It's been a pretty decent start for LM & hope we continue to see improvement. 

11 points in 8 games? I think the two wins in a row are making people exaggerate a little…..

[CardiffRed]

LM deserves credit for yesterdays result, giving Mehmeti game time which in turn provides space for Pring to get forward…..kept Mehmeti on when he could’ve taken him off. A great performance and win.

[MarcusX]

4 hours ago, RedEyez said:

Yes i do! I remember making the long trip up to Sheffield as a young boy with my father to watch us win our 12th game in a row. We lost 0-1. Think it was a last minute goal as well if my memory is correct. We were right up in the gods at Hillsborough. My first real experience of intense disappointment at a football game. 

Play off final season, similarly I remember that was my first proper heartbreak with City. Trudging away from the Mill Stad seeing the queue of Brighton fans at the station and thinking they didn’t even seem that jubilant about their win.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Nobody knows what the results would have been under NP & it's a waste of time considering it - but I'm pretty certain that a stat comparison would back up the (pointless) claims.

Very, very rarely did we win back to back games under NP - especially against 2 top six sides.

Very rarely, if ever, did we win 3 out of 4 home games under NP.

Without looking it up, I'd suspect that LM's PPG stats are already better than at any point under NP, over a similar number of games (of course that can changes ina game or 2 at this early stage)

There is little to argue in that we seem to be creating more shots at goal than under NP & that can only help make games better to watch & help improve results.

It's been a pretty decent start for LM & hope we continue to see improvement. 

Well maybe you ought to look it up.  There are 44 runs of 8 games at least equal to 11 points, and 27 runs of 8 games better than 11 points.  We picked up 16 points in one 8 game run, a few 15 points.  Our worst 8 game run was 5 points, in that first season.

Baseless “facts”!!!

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

11 points in 8 games? I think the two wins in a row are making people exaggerate a little…..

Exactly.

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

@Harry

@Ghost Rider

last night had 21 box entries (proxy - touches in pen area).

so far we’ve had 113 from 8 games under LM, avg. 14.125.

As you’ll see above, that is actually slightly down.

Our mind can play tricks on us.

But last night was good, our best attacking performance.  Defence needs work, particularly against transition / long ball in games where we are committing players forward.

Cheers Dave. 
I just get a feeling that what we’re doing is more productive and creating more pressure on the opposition. 
I guess a box entry under Pearson could have been higher as we tended to swing quite a lot of crosses in from wide and back of the 18 yard box. If this ended up overhit and collected by someone behind the far post then that’s a box entry but without any threat. 
I just feel that we aren’t swinging aimless balls in but are working the ball into areas much better, which has the opposition on the back foot or engaging in ‘panicky’ defending. 
 

I honestly don’t see it as pure coincidence that our shots are up, our shots on target are up, our clear cut chances are up, I’m sure our final third possession is likely up too; and therefore we’ve managed to secure 3 penalties in 4 home games. 
 

I’ve definitely seen a shift in how we are playing in the final third. 

[Kibs]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

It means we went back to playing a way which suits us, like how we played under Pearson. 

Rumour has it that Nige rang around a few players early Friday and told them to ignore everything that LM says!! 

Well done NP, we’ll chalk that one off as another win for him!!! COYRs!!

[Ivorguy]

3 minutes ago, Kibs said:

Rumour has it that Nige rang around a few players early Friday and told them to ignore everything that LM says!! 

Well done NP, we’ll chalk that one off as another win for him!!! COYRs!!

Nonsense.  No ex manager, let alone one of integrity, would do that

[Northern Red]

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Harry said:

Cheers Dave. 
I just get a feeling that what we’re doing is more productive and creating more pressure on the opposition. 
I guess a box entry under Pearson could have been higher as we tended to swing quite a lot of crosses in from wide and back of the 18 yard box. If this ended up overhit and collected by someone behind the far post then that’s a box entry but without any threat. 
I just feel that we aren’t swinging aimless balls in but are working the ball into areas much better, which has the opposition on the back foot or engaging in ‘panicky’ defending. 
 

I honestly don’t see it as pure coincidence that our shots are up, our shots on target are up, our clear cut chances are up, I’m sure our final third possession is likely up too; and therefore we’ve managed to secure 3 penalties in 4 home games. 
 

I’ve definitely seen a shift in how we are playing in the final third. 

Here’s your data (from Wyscout), I separated into penalty area entries (played from outside area and next touch in area, next touch can be own team or opponent) and touches in penalty area (own team only)

You’ll see that there isn’t a lot in the numbers.

In fact, in most metrics there really isn’t a lot of difference between pre-LM and under LM.  I think we are seeing more pleasing on the eye football (depending on your view of “beauty”), although that’s coming at the expense of us being a bit more open defensively too.  I think the slightly more aesthetic attacking is slightly blinkering some of the other non-pleasing stuff, e.g. we look susceptible to one pass letting our opponents in,

So after 8 games my view would be - different approach, similar “results” in many areas, including the match result too.  Our method of creating chances is “nicer”, but as yet is no more or less effective, things like xG pretty constant.

We are starting to get a baseline to judge where (hopefully) any improvements can be “measured” / seen.

Last night was a good advert for Championship football.  I enjoyed.  I enjoyed it more because of the result too.

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

11 points in 8 games? I think the two wins in a row are making people exaggerate a little…..

Yeah - so 1.375 pts per game, average. 

NP overall have 1.2 ppg  average & I can't recall many/any periods where his average got much above that.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1.4 PPG in the first 15 if we include the Fleming game. How do we want to account for it?

NP only 1.2857 and the injuries were at their worst for a good few weeks..lacking a genuine RB can do a side in.

By which I mean, Tanner and McCrorie were simultaneously absent for several weeks.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Well maybe you ought to look it up.  There are 44 runs of 8 games at least equal to 11 points, and 27 runs of 8 games better than 11 points.  We picked up 16 points in one 8 game run, a few 15 points.  Our worst 8 game run was 5 points, in that first season.

Baseless “facts”!!!

Exactly.

I'm surprised by that.

I assume that is selecting a favourable 8 games to suit the angle required.

If he had that many decent periods (cherry picked), then pretty much the entire rest of the time must. Have been utter dog shite, because his record generally over 2.5 years was pretty uninspiring.

His home record was generally abysmal & we rarely won back to back games. Facts.

[Boston Red]

17 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

11 wins in a row under your dearly beloved. Still didn't win promotion

We won 9 in a row under LJ in 2018/19 also

Also WWWDWWWWWWWWW under John Ward in 1997/8. Took us from about 17th to top by Christmas. There is 9 in a row there, but the full sequence is more impressive. The draw was an annoying 0-0 away to Walsall. 

[Boston Red]

7 hours ago, RedEyez said:

Yes i do! I remember making the long trip up to Sheffield as a young boy with my father to watch us win our 12th game in a row. We lost 0-1. Think it was a last minute goal as well if my memory is correct. We were right up in the gods at Hillsborough. My first real experience of intense disappointment at a football game. 

Liam Miller headed in a beauty on 75 minutes to put us 1-0 up, and the ref disallowed it. Then they got a last minute winner in front of the away fans. Very frustrating. 

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Well maybe you ought to look it up.  There are 44 runs of 8 games at least equal to 11 points, and 27 runs of 8 games better than 11 points.  We picked up 16 points in one 8 game run, a few 15 points.  Our worst 8 game run was 5 points, in that first season.

Baseless “facts”!!!

Exactly.

44 runs of 8 games.... that alone totals 352 games. 

He was in charge for 131 games - so that must be cherry picking the very best groups of games & replicating many games into different selections of 8 game periods.

How many stand alone 8 game periods exceeded his average stats..?

The depressing lack of back to back wins under NP, reflects the polar opposite to how you have relayed the stats in a very pro NP manner. 

[IAmNick]

26 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Yeah - so 1.375 pts per game, average. 

NP overall have 1.2 ppg  average & I can't recall many/any periods where his average got much above that.

 

I suspect you don't know what an average is in that case...!!!

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I'm surprised by that.

I assume that is selecting a favourable 8 games to suit the angle required.

If he had that many decent periods (cherry picked), then pretty much the entire rest of the time must. Have been utter dog shite, because his record generally over 2.5 years was pretty uninspiring.

His home record was generally abysmal & we rarely won back to back games. Facts.

Give me some effing credit.  I don’t make up any stats I post on here or take favourable sequences to spin / prove a point.

I actually took every single 8 game run under Nige.  No cherry picking.

FFS

Actual facts from me, sorry if it disproves your midguided thought(s)!

 

 

[Bar BS3]

38 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I suspect you don't know what an average is in that case...!!!

Do explain then.....

[Bar BS3]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Give me some effing credit.  I don’t make up any stats I post on here or take favourable sequences to spin / prove a point.

I actually took every single 8 game run under Nige.  No cherry picking.

FFS

Actual facts from me, sorry if it disproves your midguided thought(s)!

 

 

How are game results not being replicated if the stars consist of more games than he was manager for..?

Use each result once & it's a fair reflection. 

Aren't you basically replicating the use of each result 8 times..?

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Yeah - so 1.375 pts per game, average. 

NP overall have 1.2 ppg  average & I can't recall many/any periods where his average got much above that.

 

That was his average when he got sacked.

[Andy082005]

4 hours ago, Woofyourkipper said:

Spot on

i will always back a city manager as much as possible,I’m a Pearson fan and his sacking stunk of s**t,but,like you say it’s not manning’s.He is getting them playing and that’s all that counts,Pearson is gone now,I’ll cherish the time he was here but now it’s manning’s turn to run this team,hopefully to a great success

Talk about easily pleased 

[Bar BS3]

14 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

That was his average when he got sacked.

That was his average over the 2.5 years, yes. 

I think I'm missing your point..?

[Davefevs]

29 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

How are game results not being replicated if the stars consist of more games than he was manager for..?

Use each result once & it's a fair reflection. 

Aren't you basically replicating the use of each result 8 times..?

Ok, so you just want me to use:

Games 1-8, 9-16, 17-24, etc.

Give me 5 mins

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

That was his average over the 2.5 years, yes. 

I think I'm missing your point..?

Doesn’t really matter tbh. Manning is the manager now and we need him to come good which means he needs the fans behind him. The alternative is a sacking and another appointment by the hierarchy and nobody wants that.

[Davefevs]

Here are his 15 groups of sequential 8 game runs:

7

3

12

7

10

10

8

11 ️

11 ️

8

10

15

8

12

9

(for info, games 1-14 Season 1, 15-60 season 2, 61-106 season 3, 107-120 season 4)

[The Swan and Cemetery]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Here are his 15 groups of sequential 8 game runs:

7

3

12

7

10

10

8

11 ️

11 ️

8

10

15

8

12

9

(for info, games 1-14 Season 1, 15-60 season 2, 61-106 season 3, 107-120 season 4)

 

2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Yeah - so 1.375 pts per game, average. 

NP overall have 1.2 ppg  average & I can't recall many/any periods where his average got much above that.

 

 

8 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Nobody knows what the results would have been under NP & it's a waste of time considering it - but I'm pretty certain that a stat comparison would back up the (pointless) claims.

Very, very rarely did we win back to back games under NP - especially against 2 top six sides.

Very rarely, if ever, did we win 3 out of 4 home games under NP.

Without looking it up, I'd suspect that LM's PPG stats are already better than at any point under NP, over a similar number of games (of course that can changes ina game or 2 at this early stage)

There is little to argue in that we seem to be creating more shots at goal than under NP & that can only help make games better to watch & help improve results.

It's been a pretty decent start for LM & hope we continue to see improvement. 

So 8 out of 15 above 1.2 PPG and 5 out of 15 above 1.375 PPG. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by The Swan and Cemetery

[The turtle]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Here’s your data (from Wyscout), I separated into penalty area entries (played from outside area and next touch in area, next touch can be own team or opponent) and touches in penalty area (own team only)

You’ll see that there isn’t a lot in the numbers.

In fact, in most metrics there really isn’t a lot of difference between pre-LM and under LM.  I think we are seeing more pleasing on the eye football (depending on your view of “beauty”), although that’s coming at the expense of us being a bit more open defensively too.  I think the slightly more aesthetic attacking is slightly blinkering some of the other non-pleasing stuff, e.g. we look susceptible to one pass letting our opponents in,

So after 8 games my view would be - different approach, similar “results” in many areas, including the match result too.  Our method of creating chances is “nicer”, but as yet is no more or less effective, things like xG pretty constant.

We are starting to get a baseline to judge where (hopefully) any improvements can be “measured” / seen.

Last night was a good advert for Championship football.  I enjoyed.  I enjoyed it more because of the result too.

I could be way off the mark on this. But at times it feels like we get our best football "in spite of" his actual football ideas, well ONE of them. For last night, that's a compliment.

First half was control based, and it was lackluster, wasn't a great watch. A lot of football chess, etc, (it wasn't terrible though) and behind. Second half - more last 25 mins was like watching a team say; stuff control we are going for this, and man for man we back ourselves to better than you. It also wasn't the first time, just last night was more forceful.

They were, and management deserve every credit for that. To me that's adjustment, and the type of management i want to see. However our best stuff is still coming once the control handbreak is released. (Which is what i mean by inspite of)

 

Sunderland proved the team is still invested (maybe that sounds cliche, but was so easy to fold)

last night showed adaptability.

We can't reallly ask for more.

 

 

 

 

[CardiffRed]

11 minutes ago, The turtle said:

I could be way off the mark on this. But at times it feels like we get our best football "in spite of" his actual football ideas, well ONE of them. For last night, that's a compliment.

First half was control based, and it was lackluster, wasn't a great watch. A lot of football chess, etc, (it wasn't terrible though) and behind. Second half - more last 25 mins was like watching a team say; stuff control we are going for this, and man for man we back ourselves to better than you. It also wasn't the first time, just last night was more forceful.

They were, and management deserve every credit for that. To me that's adjustment, and the type of management i want to see. However our best stuff is still coming once the control handbreak is released. (Which is what i mean by inspite of)

 

Sunderland proved the team is still invested (maybe that sounds cliche, but was so easy to fold)

last night showed adaptability.

We can't reallly ask for more.

 

 

 

 

It was nice to see us 1) actually pass the ball 2) actually stay patient in 3) play through the lines. This is what I’ve been waiting for as a bcfc fan.