Give the man some credit

[LoyalRed]

9 hours ago, harvey54 said:

Like it or not, this team appears to be playing for him. Whether it's something that the previous management have instilled in the team remains to be seen but it's a good habit. Coyr! 

I doubt we would have won that game under previous management.  It’s a new energy we are now seeing, also Mehmeti  wouldn’t have been in the team to score that equaliser. 

[Tim Monaghan]

6 hours ago, Harry said:

4 home games. 3 wins. 9 points. 
Average of 13 shots per game. 
Average of 5.5 shots on target per game. 
 

The first 7 home games under NP. 
2 wins, 2 draws, 3 losses. 8 points. 
Average of 10.8 shots per game. 
Average or 3.2 shots on target per game. 

Those are metrics I like to see. 
 

Regarding the penalties. I’d be interested if Fevs had the stats - our 7 home games under NP vs the 4 under LM as to how many ‘box entries’ we had. 
I know it’s a term people don’t like, but I wonder if we get more penalties because we’re in and around the box more and causing more pressure. 
Don’t know if the stats would bear that out, but it certainly ‘feels’ like it. 

God I love you @Harry, this is what I said further up the thread, but said it in a way of “it’s amazing what happens when you get into the box”. I was clearly being a bit flippant and maybe should have put it more articulate like yourself. But the essence is still the same, that under NP we simply didn’t make as many “box entries” as a LM team does (seems like).

It’s obvious isn’t it, make more runs into the box, and the chances of you getting a penalty increase. Footballs a simple game made hard.

[Kibs]

10 minutes ago, LoyalRed said:

I doubt we would have won that game under previous management.  It’s a new energy we are now seeing, also Mehmeti  wouldn’t have been in the team to score that equaliser. 

I think that’s nonsense, and I don’t know why people keep saying it. 

I’ve defended LM a lot when he’s come in for some unfair criticism but I honestly think the results/points return would be roughly the same. 

And for me, that’s a positive because it shows the players have reacted the right way to LM coming in. 

[Numero Uno]

5 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Maybe “back to basics” in some aspects but I saw some clear difference today to NP’s style. Braver forward passing and intricate triangles.

It’s not the finished article by any stretch of the imagination but that was definitely signs of LM’s style being implemented in spells

I do think Manning had a go at changing it more quickly to start with then 5 points in 6 games probably shifted his attitude a little. You can certainly see what he is trying to implement in terms of midfield players like Knight and TGH breaking lines but it relies too much on Dickie atm (Norwich blocked off his "passing lanes" and Sunderland went full on individual press) albeit Vyner's passing was better last night tbf. I think we are seeing gradual change now.........which I also think is the correct way to go about things WITH THE PLAYERS WE HAVE.

What Manning is doing right now feels right.....a further improvement on Pearson's slow improvement (might end up being a quicker improvement given funds by the hierarchy). It's pointless saying what about "top 6" and "front foot".........let him manage but never forget that we have two idiots in charge!!

[Tim Monaghan]

10 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I think that’s nonsense, and I don’t know why people keep saying it. 

I’ve defended LM a lot when he’s come in for some unfair criticism but I honestly think the results/points return would be roughly the same. 

And for me, that’s a positive because it shows the players have reacted the right way to LM coming in. 

Agree with this. I was a big fan of Liam coming in and thought it was time for Pearson to leave, but to say he wouldn’t have won any games is a bit nonsensical. At the end of the day, we will never know. It’s more speculation and fantasy. 

[cidered abroad]

9 hours ago, Robbored said:

Two away match at Vicarage Rd and St Andrews, both below us in the table both winnable. 4 back to back wins would be fantastic 

I vaguely remember City winning 9 or 10 consecutive wins some years ago in L1. A club record iirc.

Anyone else remember it?

None of us were alive when we got 13 or 14 in a row in 1905.

Yes it is very welcome that we won two on the bounce. I'm grateful for six points in six days. 

But wouldn't it be more pleasant if we started playing on a regular basis like our last two opponents, who with three forward passes went 70/80 metres toward our goal and kept us pegged in defensive mode for a lot of the game.

While we made dozens of backward, negative passes that have one effect: that the crowd turn off and we all go to sleep instead of noisily supporting like we should be.

[Numero Uno]

21 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

Agree with this. I was a big fan of Liam coming in and thought it was time for Pearson to leave, but to say he wouldn’t have won any games is a bit nonsensical. At the end of the day, we will never know. It’s more speculation and fantasy. 

Agreed. This bullshit needs to stop. Pearson wouldn't have won that game, Pearson would have won that game blah blah blah. Childish and boring now.

Pearson isn't coming back, I really don't want Crayon Boy and Sid (that's probably childish as well but I don't give a ****) going through a further vigorous recruitment process for another manager quite honestly. We need Liam Manning to be successful for the good of the club and our enjoyment of the football we watch every week so get behind him unless and until he proves he's not deserving of that. What we produced last night was very acceptable with the players we have...................now he needs to be backed in the window to improve the quality. If that doesn't happen then it's all on Steve, Jon, Gavin and Sid.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Numero Uno

[redkev]

19 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I think that’s nonsense, and I don’t know why people keep saying it. 

I’ve defended LM a lot when he’s come in for some unfair criticism but I honestly think the results/points return would be roughly the same. 

And for me, that’s a positive because it shows the players have reacted the right way to LM coming in. 

As have been  said in previous threads not the most technically gifted squad but fair play to them fully committed whoever’s in charge and professional we can’t ask for any more than that - perhaps mr Lansdown my dig deep for a couple of quality signing which could make all the difference

8 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

None of us were alive when we got 13 or 14 in a row in 1905.

Yes it is very welcome that we won two on the bounce. I'm grateful for six points in six days. 

But wouldn't it be more pleasant if we started playing on a regular basis like our last two opponents, who with three forward passes went 70/80 metres toward our goal and kept us pegged in defensive mode for a lot of the game.

While we made dozens of backward, negative passes that have one effect: that the crowd turn off and we all go to sleep instead of noisily supporting like we should be.

That’s the spirit 

[Lack of Action Man]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Mr Boring here. One game at a time for me. Bah humbug

On the radio interview he explained that we were building momentum so felt he didn’t want to break that up. 

We got ragged around the half hour. And I know it’s stupid but I blame “bounce around”. It’s cringy. And I think the players lose concentration. It has happened too many times now that we concede on or after the chant. If I’m being honest it boils my piss. It’s also a Johnson thing, those days are over.

Bah humbug again!!

As for the game itself I really enjoyed it. We never let Hull suck the life out of the second half.

We often build our territory from Matty James in these games. But today he had an off day (could he have been one suffering from illness) and it showed that others can drive us.

We thoroughly deserved the win.

 

 

Totally agree. Bloody silly idea churning that chant out at 1-0 in the first half. Save it for the 89th minute guys!

[INCRED]

48 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I do think Manning had a go at changing it more quickly to start with then 5 points in 6 games probably shifted his attitude a little. You can certainly see what he is trying to implement in terms of midfield players like Knight and TGH breaking lines but it relies too much on Dickie atm (Norwich blocked off his "passing lanes" and Sunderland went full on individual press) albeit Vyner's passing was better last night tbf. I think we are seeing gradual change now.........which I also think is the correct way to go about things WITH THE PLAYERS WE HAVE.

What Manning is doing right now feels right.....a further improvement on Pearson's slow improvement (might end up being a quicker improvement given funds by the hierarchy). It's pointless saying what about "top 6" and "front foot".........let him manage but never forget that we have two idiots in charge!!

With reference to blocking passing lines, when Atkinson is back and fit, his passing and surges forward will bring a new dimension and open up options when we are building play as well as having both Dickie & Atkinson as threats at set pieces. I think Vyner is a decent defender but Atkinson trumps him in what he brings to the team both defensively and going forward 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, INCRED said:

With reference to blocking passing lines, when Atkinson is back and fit, his passing and surges forward will bring a new dimension and open up options when we are building play as well as having both Dickie & Atkinson as threats at set pieces. I think Vyner is a decent defender but Atkinson trumps him in what he brings to the team both defensively and going forward 

You could also look at a back three with Vyner.

[RedEyez]

10 hours ago, Robbored said:

Two away match at Vicarage Rd and St Andrews, both below us in the table both winnable. 4 back to back wins would be fantastic 

I vaguely remember City winning 9 or 10 consecutive wins some years ago in L1. A club record iirc.

Anyone else remember it?

Yes i do! I remember making the long trip up to Sheffield as a young boy with my father to watch us win our 12th game in a row. We lost 0-1. Think it was a last minute goal as well if my memory is correct. We were right up in the gods at Hillsborough. My first real experience of intense disappointment at a football game. 

[Scrumpty]

7 hours ago, Ron W said:

You might want to have a word with them given he was here and at Leicester more than two years.

Some of the stuff against LM has been harsh, but generally understandable. It’s not often any manager takes over from someone the fans actually wanted to keep.

Season has a long way to go, there will be a lot of judgements along the way but let’s see where we are in May.

 Don’t need a word, he’s probably right. NP had ruffled feathers here (and thank god he did), eventually making his stay untenable.

What’s not questionable is that he left both positions in markedly better states than he found them, creating organised, functioning foundations on which to build.

So, LM has inherited an unusual situation. Typically, a new manager enters a position where a team is losing and low in confidence, or is doing exceptionally well (and the only way is down). He hasn’t inherited a blank canvas - a lot of the picture is in place and he needs to colour it in. JL should be able to help him with that.

[LoyalRed]

1 hour ago, Kibs said:

I think that’s nonsense, and I don’t know why people keep saying it. 

I’ve defended LM a lot when he’s come in for some unfair criticism but I honestly think the results/points return would be roughly the same. 

And for me, that’s a positive because it shows the players have reacted the right way to LM coming in. 

Results have certainly picked up, we drew a lot of games under NP.  I guess we should judge the league position under LM at the end of the season.  

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

Great to see a young modern coach at last making the most of the players at his disposal.

[italian dave]

42 minutes ago, RedEyez said:

Yes i do! I remember making the long trip up to Sheffield as a young boy with my father to watch us win our 12th game in a row. We lost 0-1. Think it was a last minute goal as well if my memory is correct. We were right up in the gods at Hillsborough. My first real experience of intense disappointment at a football game. 

12 games before you experienced your first taste of disappointment.

You lucky, lucky bastard.

[RedEyez]

3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

12 games before you experienced your first taste of disappointment.

You lucky, lucky bastard.

I was sooo young

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, Kibs said:

I think that’s nonsense, and I don’t know why people keep saying it. 

I’ve defended LM a lot when he’s come in for some unfair criticism but I honestly think the results/points return would be roughly the same. 

And for me, that’s a positive because it shows the players have reacted the right way to LM coming in. 

Nobody knows what the results would have been under NP & it's a waste of time considering it - but I'm pretty certain that a stat comparison would back up the (pointless) claims.

Very, very rarely did we win back to back games under NP - especially against 2 top six sides.

Very rarely, if ever, did we win 3 out of 4 home games under NP.

Without looking it up, I'd suspect that LM's PPG stats are already better than at any point under NP, over a similar number of games (of course that can changes ina game or 2 at this early stage)

There is little to argue in that we seem to be creating more shots at goal than under NP & that can only help make games better to watch & help improve results.

It's been a pretty decent start for LM & hope we continue to see improvement. 

[One Team]

1 hour ago, Kibs said:

I think that’s nonsense, and I don’t know why people keep saying it. 

I’ve defended LM a lot when he’s come in for some unfair criticism but I honestly think the results/points return would be roughly the same. 

And for me, that’s a positive because it shows the players have reacted the right way to LM coming in. 

That’s the best summary I’ve read on this thread. 

We’ve no idea how the last few games, or last night, would have played out under Nige. We could’ve won more, less or the same; the only fact there is we will never know.

As for Manning I would think most have separated the venom for Lansdown from the support for the new man. I don’t particularly like him in interviews but that doesn’t matter in slightest if he keeps winning! It’s also positive to see the players are clearly trying and playing for him too. 

I thought Hull looked the better team for a lot of the game last night but we dealt with their threat well. The substitutes swung the game in our favour though, especially Wells who whilst didn’t see too much of the ball used his experience to draw others away to create the space needed for the late goals. 

The atmosphere was good for the most part as well, probably fuelled from all day drinking! 

[Gert Mare]

I didn’t see the game last night, but was gleefully shown the latest score by a Gashead when we were 2-1 down.

The last 2 matches have shown that we can grind out results in different ways and that can only help players confidence.

I’m pleased that Mehmeti is being given a chance to settle in because we need creativity and he has that in his locker. I think back to Scott Murray and how he changed once his confidence grew. If Mehmeti can get anywhere close to that then bums will be off seats.

The togetherness in the squad still seems to be there and credit to Liam Manning as he is connecting with them.

Nice to be going into the Christmas period not looking nervously over our shoulders. 

No doubt the upcoming fixture against West Ham will see players trying to push for a place in the starting XI for that game.

Now…..where’s that Gashead gone?

[Bazooka Joe]

11 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Manning arrives and we start getting penalties! 

And we're sticking them in the back of the net !

Who'd have thought?

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

I’m pleased that Mehmeti is being given a chance to settle in because we need creativity and he has that in his locker. I think back to Scott Murray and how he changed once his confidence grew. If Mehmeti can get anywhere close to that then bums will be off seats.

His second half performance was the Mehmeti most of us knew was in there, but we had yet to see. And you just saw the confidence grow in him after that goal. He went full tilt to try to get his second.

Semenyo is a player who took a while to get off the mark, but then just stepped up for us and became very important. 

[DaveInSA]

What I love about these players is the commitment and togetherness.

This is the foundation that great things are made of.

with some canny recruitment and good man management we can definitely push on.

but we knew this already TBF.

can Manning do it? It seems like he’s a quick learner. So why not?

[Red Skin]

Really pleased with the performance last night and great to be really entertained.   Kinda lost my voice this morning, and that only usually happens for the first couple of games of the season so definitely more to shout about.

It's still early days, but we are playing well for longer spells in games now so I'm optimistic that things will still improve.

It's pretty high stakes at times, but I welcome players trying to beat their man to open things up.  High risk, but high gain when it comes off, and I'll take that all day long.  I would have loved to see Alex Scott and Semenyo playing in a LM team.  Hopefully, we can recruit a couple of gems in January.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Red Skin

[TheReds]

9 hours ago, Harry said:

Regarding the penalties. I’d be interested if Fevs had the stats - our 7 home games under NP vs the 4 under LM as to how many ‘box entries’ we had. 
I know it’s a term people don’t like, but I wonder if we get more penalties because we’re in and around the box more and causing more pressure. 

The issue with the lack of penalties the last few years was down to some shockingly bad refereeing decisions. It's not as if we haven't had any shouts for penalties because we haven't been in the box enough. We have seen players pretty much rugby tackled to the ground and still not given. We have even had multiple apologies/letters haven't we as the decisions were that bad.

[petehinton]

I think he’s actually getting far more invested already than he thought he would, and dare I said more than he wanted to as well. 
 

He’s spoken so much about staying level, not really celebrating wins, not really dwelling on losses etc. George from NTT20 said to us not to expect any show of passion, the odd clap here and there but all a very transactional relationship. 
 

First win he’s giving it the fist pumps to s82, and I think either at the forum or in the post match said he basically shouldn’t have done it and almost felt a bit embarrassed as it’s out of character. Has done it basically every time ever since and is very animated on the touchline, again much more than we were told to expect. Even last night he was basically slagging off the ref in the media post match. 
 

I can’t remember who on here said it at the time, but I maybe think he underestimated the club. Not saying we are giants and AG is a cauldron or whatever, but (no disrespect) but compared to MK & Oxford we are getting 3x the crowds, our away followings are far far bigger and the expectations and challenge is bigger too. 
 

I think we’re well on our way to having a far more emotive and personable LM that fans will warm to more, and certainly not the 100% perfect pro license taught, Chat GPT answers and mentality. 

[Baba Yaga]

11 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Not sure we were overly lucky tonight when you see that pen given against us

My point was about the 2nd and 3rd goals because most weeks we won't get bad goalkeeping like that for the 2nd and then a big deflection for Knight's goal. But you're right about the pen and if you factor that in then we had a big decision go against us too, having watched it back I'm with the people on the radio after the game calling it a joke decision.

[Davefevs]

10 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I liked TC’s performance tonight, very sharp…as per another post I made earlier.

Here’s all games.

 

and here’s home games:

I’ll try and remember to look again after tomorrow’s updates to Wyscout.

@Harry

@Ghost Rider

last night had 21 box entries (proxy - touches in pen area).

so far we’ve had 113 from 8 games under LM, avg. 14.125.

As you’ll see above, that is actually slightly down.

Our mind can play tricks on us.

But last night was good, our best attacking performance.  Defence needs work, particularly against transition / long ball in games where we are committing players forward.

[W-S-M Seagull]

14 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

To be be fair, I think he’s tied to reinvent the wheel early doors and it hasn’t worked or he’s realised thats Going to take time or different personnel. Back to basics we go. Ground out 3 points (Pearson style - whey!). Get to 50 points we go again with Manningball. 

Have to give him credit for realising it wasn't working. However it is a bit of a an annoyance that he made that mistake and points were dropped etc. 

It was very much a Pearson performance and last night. Even the 3 subs were what Pearson would often do. 

As I've always said, evolution, not revolution.

[Phileas Fogg]

32 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Have to give him credit for realising it wasn't working. However it is a bit of a an annoyance that he made that mistake and points were dropped etc. 

It was very much a Pearson performance and last night. Even the 3 subs were what Pearson would often do. 

As I've always said, evolution, not revolution.

What does that mean?